The Tony Blair War Crimes Foundation is collecting signatures.
http://blairfoundation.wordpress.com/signatories/
Includes amongst others, Noam Chomsky, Richard Dawkins, Ken Loach…
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17 February 2009
“Two US missile strikes in Pakistan in three days kill more than 60″…
http://tinyurl.com/bo5ykf
February 17, 2009
“West Bank settlement gets green light for major expansion”…
http://tinyurl.com/dyqy7s
Well I know the history – Castro took power with a small group of rebels and has never been elected. He and Che killed thousands of opponents. Cuba has a great health service, but then Hitler built the autobahns and made the trains run on time, so that proves nothing. Khomeini killed thousands of leftists and trade unionists. If either country had a true democracy they would not be ruled by communists or theocrats.
I agree about Mugabe, he should never have been given a kinighthood, but that was a long time ago.
There is plenty of evidence to show that political dissidents in Iran are being stitched up on anti-Gay charges. The “law” in such a country means very little. It is just power in action.
Did you spot that Bliar has landed himself another large cheque, this time from the Dan David Foundation? Never heard of him by the way – another one of Tony’s cronies no doubt.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7893500.stm
You can use this BBC report as an emetic.
“There is plenty of evidence to show that political dissidents in Iran are being stitched up on anti-Gay charges”
These are just claims, not backed by evidence. The group Iran hunts down and prosecutes most vigorously are Mossad spies, something it does with some success.
“If either country had a true democracy they would not be ruled by communists or theocrats”
Perhaps the reason the revolutions in those countries were so successful is because that is precisely what the majority of the population did want. In the case of Iran, you simply do not comprehend how overwhelming was its revolution and how strong the people’s desire for Islamic law. It’s just that you don’t approve of it. Shame they didn’t ask your opinion Eddie. I’m sure you’d have put them right.
Mossad spies eh? Some success eh? Oh dear. What proof do you have that said persons are actually Mossad spies? Don’t you have an inkling of how such regimes work? Anyone can be labelled as a Mossad spy if the regime wills it.
I suggest that you have a look at Tatchell’s site – I trust him moer than you. Mind you, their President says that there are no Gays in Iran, or perhaps just a few, so you may be right. If no one is Gay how can they kill them? Obviously they find some other charge. Credulity MJ.
http://www.petertatchell.net/
“What proof do you have that said persons are actually Mossad spies?”
The Israeli condemnation that follows.
“Anyone can be labelled as a Mossad spy if the regime wills it”
You’re beginning to sound dangerously like a conspiracy theorist Eddie.
“Mind you, their President says that there are no Gays in Iran”
He said that homosexuality in Iran is not the issue that it is in the US. See http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18471.htm for a calm and informed appraisal of the matter.
Eddie is clearly a good, earnest man of the New Left. aka Bliar’s sanctimonious pleadings: he means well – but remains blind to the ancient truism (variously attributed to Dr Johnson, John Ray and Saint Bernard of Clairvaux) that ‘the road to Hell is paved with good intentions’. His ‘belief’ in the de-rigeur Establishment narrative of the benign intent of the West, busily engaged in making the world a better place is akin to that of a child’s belief and wonder at Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. The difference being that the purveyors of those myths have the child’s welfare genuinely at heart; whereas the ‘deep-state’ agenda of the former, with it’s clever adjunct of ‘Humanitarian Intervention’ designed to keep earnest young Men-of-the-Left on board, is far and away removed from the real interests of the domestic populations it enthrals and the foreign ones it seeks to ‘liberate’.
Here are a few (tongue-in-cheek, rhetorical type) questions for Eddie:
Does he think the West would have any interest in the Middle East or Central Asia were it not for Oil/Gas and its transportation? – or are we to believe that precipitating over 1 million premature deaths, 2+ million orphans, 4.5 million refugees plus destroying the country’s utilities infrastructure and cultural heritage is a price worth paying for his precious concept of ‘democracy’
If the Middle East were populated by a predominantly Buddhist population (for example), would the ‘terrorist threat’ remain predominantly a Muslim one?
If an Arab army were to invade his country with the stated aim of making it safe for Islam – or whatever, would Eddie become: a – a willing collaborator, b – a cowed and frightened individual keeping his head down to protect his family and hopefully avoid the attentions of the invaders, or c – an ‘Insurgent’, or ‘Militant’ – pick your own demonising euphemism?
Assuming he was numbered among the 7-8 million souls referred to above, would he be inclined to thank the invaders for their selfless help in ‘liberating’ him?
How many countries has Iran launched unprovoked attacks against in the past 100 years?
Ditto the USA, Israel and the UK?
Who engineered the overthrow of the first democratically elected government in the Middle East and what was this connected with (Clue – 2 possibilities – Humanitarian intervention or Oil)?
Why is it OK for Israel to abrogate the NNPT and posses nuclear weapons at all; let alone whilst senior Israeli political and military figures like Professor Martin van Creveld make statements such as this this – and with nary a whisper of protest from anyone in the West?
“We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force… . We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.”
Fine post Sabretache. For anyone who’s interested the full transcript of van Creveld’s interview can be found at http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1154.htm
In the UK we have the appearance of democracy in that there are elections. However, the Glenthroes result raises the suspicion that the process was flawed. Also having elections doesn’t mean the country is democratic if people don’t know what goes on behind the curtains. I believe there’s a power behind the scenes that determines important policy particularly foreign and that Tony Blair was an instrument of this power to deceive the population who were against the war. This power acts with the intelligence services in all kinds of illegal activities which can result in the death and imprisonment of totally innocent UK citizens.
Ruth
You are spot on.
Labour support in meltdown…
http://tinyurl.com/c3uhqk
Looks like independence for Scotland?.
MJ OK you give me a verifiable link to proof that Israel has condemned such incidents and I will believe you. I don’t think any country would ever confirm or deny that one of their agents has been captured.
This is the transcript of his speech at Columbia University on 24 September 2007. A false translation perhaps? I don’t think so. You can find the whole thing for yourself. The man is a fool.
“PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: In Iran, we don’t have homosexuals like in your country. (Laughter.) We don’t have that in our country. (Booing.) In Iran, we do not have this phenomenon. I don’t know who’s told you that we have it. (Laughter.)
sabretache – answering questions with more questions is not a great rhetorical device and you really should get your apostrophes sorted out. However, I will have the decency to answer at least some of yours. Of course we are interested in the oil of the middle east just as you are interested in driving a car. Where do you think your petrol comes from? It’s called trade and it makes the world go round. Your numbers of dead are plain wrong – you have swallowed the Lancet propaganda. It is predominantly Muslim fundamentalists who are blowing people up with suicide bombs and flying planes into buildings so the terrorist threat is primarly coming from a perverse reading of Islam, yes. Buddhists are not doing these things. An arab army has neither the power nor the ability to invade, so the question is meaningless. I take it from your line of questioning that you are as Israel obsessed as most of the others on this board. Israel is a democracy in a region surrounded by hostile, non-democratic countries. It has the right to exist and the right to defend itself. History shows that it has been repeatedly attacked by its neighbours, many of whom wish to destroy it. In such circumstances, I think I would prefer to retain a strong defence system. You might also ask why Pakistan or India has the bomb, or any other country for that matter. They just do. I am sure that I could find a quote from a random professor that is just as mad – Chomsky for example – it doesn’t mean it represents the view of the government.
“I believe there’s a power behind the scenes that determines important policy”
So do I Ruth. They are the elite banking families – Rockefellers, Rothschilds etc – who want a single world government with themselves in charge.
I’d also like to say that your advice (in an earlier topic thread) that we should make arrangements to grow our own food was in my opinion very wise.
“OK you give me a verifiable link to proof that Israel has condemned such incidents and I will believe you”
Keep a regular eye on two sites: the Israeli haartz.com and the Iranian presstv.ir. Both are reasonably objective and carry more detailed and accurate reporting on the various Israel/Iran spats than you’ll find elsewhere.
I think you’ll be surprised by the latter; it even reports on Premiership football!
Eddie, for your information, Martin van Creveld is a senior military adviser to the IDF. Hardly a mad random professor.
Also I think you really ought to wait for a full and independent investigation into 9/11 before jumping to conclusions as to who was responsible. Also, since when was invasion the same thing as ‘trade’? And doesn’t Palestine (also democratic) have a right to exist and fight for its land, currently illegally occupied by Israel?
25 January 2009
“Enjoying the recession”…
http://tinyurl.com/cgewoa
I may be wrong, but aren’t many middle eastern oil states among the richest in the world? I am assuming that they are not selling sand to the West. Have we invaded any of them lately? Is there any reason why Iraq, a sovereign democratic country (which was invaded to make it so, lest we forget) cannot be as rich?
Oh Gawd, not 9/11 again. I think I’ve had my fill of conspiracy theories – what with this old chestnut and Ruth’s notion of some evil (presumably Jewish) cabal that is running the world.
Palestine is not a country and never has been. They rejected the opportunity in 1948. But yes it does have a right to exist and it does have a right to its own territory. If they stopped lobbing missiles into Israel it would be a good start.
In two minds whether to sign this petition.Would be more keen if there were more about Blair’s nasty carryings-on in the former Jugoslavia.
Blair was involved in more than one unprovoked act of aggression.
“Have we invaded any of them lately?”
Iraq? US military bases in many of the others. Iran very soon…
“Iraq, a sovereign democratic country which was invaded to make it so”
Come again? Invaded so that Israel could secure a reliable source of oil I’m sure you meant to say.
“If they stopped lobbing missiles into Israel it would be a good start”
Just how do you propose they try to get their land back after 40 years of illegal occupation and no help from the rest of the world? Sending polite letters to the Knesset?
“Ruth’s notion of some evil (presumably Jewish) cabal that is running the world”
Here’s a thought-provoking link: film producer Aaron Russo speaking a few months before he died of cancer – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nD7dbkkBIA
A You Tube video here of Chris Coverdale of Make Wars History talking about Blair’s war crimes. John MvDonnell, sadly the PM we didn’t have, introduces him.
http://www.youtube.com/makewarshistory?gl=GB&hl=en-GB
“In the UK we have the appearance of democracy in that there are elections.”
Quite so. And said elections allow us merely to choose between frontmen who stand between us and the real power. Government itself formulatates almost no policy of real long-term significance. That’s done by what Thatcher and others called the ‘parallel government”.
Now let’s go a little further and name names.
Having plundered Africa for its riches, Cecil Rhodes decided to use his vast fortune to set up the imperialist Rhodes-Milner Group in 1891. The ‘Round Table’ society was subsequently set up in 1910 to provide a ‘charitable’ face to the public. Like most of these groups, its structure was freemasonic in design, using a pleasant facade comprised of the lower orders. Think of it like a mafia deli – with the shopfront selling great coffee and exquisite sandwiches while the bodies are chopped up in the back room, far from public view.
In 1919 perhaps the most important progeny of the R-MG was launched: the Royal Institute of International Affairs, a policy-developing think tank whose members would never have to be troubled by the awkwardness of actually being elected.
With Britain’s parallel government now established it was a mere two years before a sister organisation came along to help guide the future of her great partner. The Council on Foreign Relations would play a huge role in formulating the long-term policies of the US. Together, these two groups would steer the ship of what Prof Carroll Quigley termed the ‘Anglo-American Establishment’ (see his book of the same title for much more on this). Most importantly, they could do so without the bothersome interference of the electorate.
So yes, Ruth – you are quite correct. I do think all of us here should be honest, though. Who among us didn’t at one time think as Eddie does? That it is somehow ‘our’ system – that we live in a ‘free’ society – or that voting can ever do more than change the covers on the furniture? I know I once did.
But a willingness to face the truth – however ugly or uncomfortable it proves to be – is corrosive to the childish trust our elite class wish to perpetuate in us. The surface changes, but the Patrician/Plebian struggle has always remained.
Eddie
All your stuff is so NuLab PC. Almost as though it was lifted from a parliamentary candidates crib sheet. You don’t perchance have aspirations in that direction do you? – ‘Cos all this stuff would look sooo good on your CV – but I guess you know that don’t you?.
Here are few more rhetoricals for you – about Israel mainly. That model Apartheid Democracy; born of terrorist violence and sustained by it on stolen land and borrowed time ever since.
Which country is in breach of more UN Security Council resolutions than any other?
How many Israelis were killed by Hamas rockets in the 6 months leading to the breaking of the cease-fire? (Clue: it was less than 1)
Who broke the ceasefire on US presidential election day 4th November – how many people did they kill doing so?
Which is closest to the Israeli/Palestinian deaths ratio since the inception of the Israeli State – 2/1, 10/1, 100/1,
Who won the Internationally supervised Palestinian election in 2006 with close to 70% of the vote against their man rival with about 30% – IOW who are the legitimate DEMOCRATICALLY elected government of the Palestinian territories?
Which Presidential term expired on 5th January but is still treated by both Israel and the West as the legitimate spokesman for Palestinians?
Which territory has been rigidly blockaded by land, sea and air ever since those elections and in spite of ceasefire undertakings?
How many miles of 1. Apartheid walls and 2. ‘Jews-only’ roads +Jewish settlements have been built in the Palestinian West Bank territory in the past 5 years – in further gross violation of UN resolutions?
I could go on an on but …. water off a duck’s back an’ all that.
Anyway, here’s a bit of light relief – though Kadima don’t think it’s funny. Yesterday, the Kadima Web Site was hacked. It was spotted and blocked within the hour but not before the Google cache did it’s stuff. That now appears to have been purged but for anyone interested in seeing what would have greeted a visitor to the Israeli ruling party web site for a while yesterday, have a look at this: http://tinyurl.com/clcpoe
Catchy little tune isn’t it – a bit of an airing on Radio 1/2, it might just make the charts :-)))
“Blair Team starts work on investment and governance with Sierra Leone”…
http://tinyurl.com/adc4do
Some VERY lucrative opportunities there me thinks.
You seem to despise any version of democracy except when it suits your agenda viz. Hamas. Blair was democratically elected too – three times in fact, yet it doesn’t stop you stating that he had no mandate to govern, so don’t give me all your guff about elections. Hamas were elected and then seized power in a coup where they killed many of their opponents. They are still doing it – the Guardian had a report only last saturday that Hamas is killing political enemies and “collaborators” in Gaza.
As for “born of terrorist violence” I assume you would therefore condemn Cuba, China, Nicaragua, Grenada, France, USA …(I could go on) – all born in violence. It’s a truism of many countries and proves nothing. One man’s terrorist etc.
As for your ratios, it is HAMAS themselves who set these ratios – this is the value they put on their people. In return for Gilad Shalit they want Israel to release over a thousand Palestinian prisoners. It is they who see one Israeli as being worth a thousand Palestinians. Don’t you think this shows the value they place on human life?
Reuters “Hamas has demanded the release of 1,400 Palestinian prisoners in exchange for Shalit” 16 Feb 09
Frank V’s points along with a complex web that radiates from and around them are pretty much the nub of the matter. And well said about which of us has not spent an embarrassing proportion of our lives thinking believing and hoping against hope (and the evidence of bitter experience) just like Eddie? – Like Frank, I most certainly have.
‘Taking the Red Pill’ was no easy option. But I’m now retired and so don’t give a toss for the State and its mendacious apologists and enforcers. Neither do I have a career to nurture any more so I make sure the blinkers stay well and truly removed and have no hesitation about calling a spade a spade (Or Israel a vicious apartheid Mafia-like state) etc etc.
It’s the honest people who can clearly see things as they are but yet have a living to earn (which on anywhere but the very bottom of the pecking order means, at the very least, being careful to keep one’s head down lest the Establishment take note and mark your card accordingly. What price an honest man eh?
For anyone interested, my own journey out of fantasy-land is described briefly on the side-bar of the Sabretache site and continued in an extended linked post.
“I assume you would therefore condemn Cuba, China, Nicaragua, Grenada, France, USA …(I could go on) – all born in violence”
With the exception of the USA, I’m sure you’ll appreciate there’s an important difference between your list and the case of Israel. In those countries the struggle was between the indigenous population and its brutal, tyrannical government.
In the case of Israel it was complete outsiders going to a country to which they had no historical connection and cold-bloodedly displacing and ethnically cleansing the indigenous population. Menachem Begin – terrorist, gangster, Nobel peace prize winner – was a Pole.
I checked out George Dutton’s link on Bliar’s connection to Sierra Leone. Thanks for that. I read recently about another new link to Rwanda – http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/jan/18/rwanda.tonyblair – he will soon have all continents covered.
I continued on to his speech at the National Prayer Breakfast meeting with Obamarama. It is mostly incredible tosh about revelations and shining lights. Cleverly, he includes quotes from and about the main religions. I think he is as crazed as he is wicked.
http://tonyblairoffice.org/2009/02/full-text-of-tony-blairs-speec.html
Don’t forget Tony Blair the $1m scratch card winner.
Noam Chomsky charges $12,000 to speak, has set up a trust fund to avoid paying tax, invests in oil companies, and said if he wasn’t paid, he couldn’t do what he does. His articles on his site are COPYRIGHT – does this sound like a man acting out of conviction – or someone who’s part of the establishment?
Google “nationalpost” and “chomsky” for an article about this.
Some of his supporters asked me if I wanted Chomsky to starve. This is an MIT tenured professor – tenured means his job is secure.
Chomsky makes no mention on his site of dissidents around the world who have risked their lives fighting for democracy and freedom – and who need our support! His fans see him as the world’s bravest dissenter. Chomsky has become a BRAND! He is one of the few individuals in the world who have turned dissent – or, rather, giving his opinion – into a lucrative career.
As for Dawkins, all he goes on about is his damn ATHEISM and how RELIGION is the root of all evil. For some people – those living in desperate circumstances – a belief in a god helps them cope, stops them from committing suicide.
Collecting signatures? What use is that? Until there’s some REAL OUTRAGE in this country, nothing will change – the ruling “elite” will continue to treat us with increasing contempt. Chomsky and Dawkins have nothing to worry about, though, as we are handing them our money.
The time for talk is over. But Chomsky and Dawkins want to keep us talking – and buying their books! NO, THANK YOU. Creating celebrities is not the answer.
@Eddie, don’t think this post is in support of Blair – Blair betrayed those that voted for him, lied through his back teeth, murdered children in cold blood, and impoverished hundreds of thousands. If I must choose between Blair and the likes of Chomsky, then I’ll choose Chomsky any day.
“Some of his supporters asked me if I wanted Chomsky to starve. This is an MIT tenured professor – tenured means his job is secure.”
An absurd defense indeed. But it’s not so much the fees the likes of Chomsky command that irks – it’s the fact that he perpetuates the utterly exhausted, bankrupt theatre of left vs right.
Both he and Dawkins positively reek of controlled opposition, tightening the screws on people’s ability to break out of the pre-fabricated paradigm we’re born into.
I’ve read quite a lot of both authors and there is indeed some useful information there (though Dawkins less so). Excercising maximum discretion, it’s quite possible to buy a good vehicle from an unscrupulous used car salesman. Buying the whole showroom is an act of idiocy.
“We shall lead every revolution against us”
and
“Let he who would be deceived, be deceived”
are the two quotes which are my constant companions when considering fellows such as this.