“Am I sometimes exasperated by the barmier entries, including by those who appear to believe that all terrorism is always false flag? Yes, I am sometimes. But no more than I am exasperated by those who swallow the entire war on terror agenda and the associated wars and attacks on liberty at home.”
I am having an interesting dialogue with angrysoba in comments on his blogpost about one of my blogposts. Some people don’t seem to get the concept of open debate. Angrysoba appears to be angry because he believes it is wrong for anyone to be allowed to express views which he deplores.
http://angrysoba.blogspot.com/2009/12/british-ambassador-and-his-loony.html
Mr. Murray, are you still paying belly dancer from Uzbekistan for sex?
Jaded, where is it a crime to deny the Holocaust? Certainly on continental Europe, of course, but they have their own history with both free speech and National Socialism. To me, it doesn’t make much sense for Austria to have a law criminalizing Holocaust denial, but it’s not something that gets me too upset.
Are you under the mistaken impression that it’s illegal to deny the Holocaust in the U.K.? That’s certainly not the case in the States.
Oh, how do you know i’m in the U.K.?
Glenn,
It’s not a fallacy because I’m not attacking what you wrote on the merits.
I don’t particularly feel like attacking you on the merits. You could post other factoids from Rense.com, some of which could easily involve lizard people and space lasers destroying the WTC and the coming 2012 Apocalypse – I just don’t care enough. I could never convince a believer in lizard people that lizard people don’t exist.
But, a small point on what you linked from that crackpot site – don’t you think that perhaps your opinions need to be adjusted now that the U.S. has elected Obama and the opposition party? To the extent that you believe the U.S. was on its way to fascism, doesn’t the Obama election mean something?
And I was citing your linking of Rense.com to further substantiate the link between the left wing in the U.K. and absolute crackpots in the U.S. It’s like there’s a rule that you people make this too damn easy.
“Oh, how do you know i’m in the U.K.?”
I dunno – U.K.-centric website perhaps.
Again, if you think it’s a crime to deny the Holocaust in the U.K., you’re mistaken.
Just perhaps then? 😉 Ok Lamby. You answer questions I haven’t asked. I was referring, obviously, to the countries where it is a crime. Any answers to my questions? For the record, I don’t think it will be too long before the U.K. follows suit.
Larry: I don’t care about rense.com and have no interest in lizard people. I was interested in the 14 markers of fascism, did a search, found that particular page listed them, and quoted the link. That’s why I quoted it. And Christ Almighty if all you can do is go on about other content about that site. So foam and splutter away with irrelevancies, _anything_ but talk about the 14 identifying features of fascism. You boring, stupid waste of time.
My new year’s resolution is to stop thinking one can get anything but wasted time out of fools, because they can indefinitely extend any argument with nothing but BS, as Larry-boy here has amply demonstrated.
Ask an Austrian legislator.
That was for Jaded.
What about the other countries in continental Europe that have ‘Holocaust denial’ as a crime? I didn’t think you’d have any answers Lamby. I have been proved conclusively correct, yet again… Sigh.
Glenn – To the extent that you believe the U.S. was on its way to fascism, doesn’t the Obama election mean something?
“I have been proved conclusively correct, yet again”
Please tell me what you were correct about.
Larry:
Glenn – To the extent that you believe the U.S. was on its way to fascism, doesn’t the Obama election mean something?
Undoubtedly, it means they are well on the way.
Larry:
‘”I have been proved conclusively correct, yet again”
Please tell me what you were correct about.’
You seem to have a lot of answers, but have failed dismally on answering any of these questions. I had a ‘feeling in my bones’ that you would. Therefore, I have been proved ‘conclusively correct’. Don’t fret Lamby. It’s ok…
Because I can’t explain Austrian or German law to you, you’ve scored a point? And what exactly did you get correct?
You seem like someone who was educated in British schools.
I was referring to no specific country, there are actually a few in continental Europe that have ‘Holocaust denial’ as a crime, and was simply asking if you – as the ‘answerer of unlimited questions’ you seem to be – could provide me any logic behind the laws. There is uually logic behind law – regardless if one agrees with the logic – is there not?
P.S. I find it very funny that you felt it necessry to throw in the British school jibe, as you ‘know’ i’m in the U.K..
Yes, I’m a Secret Agent Man, and we’re all watching you.
So, no answers as I hypothesised. I have indeed been proved ‘conclusively correct’, yet again. Don’t fret Lamby. It’s ok…
Damn, Jaded., correct about what?
Have some pride in yourself. Be responsible for your beliefs. Have a bit of courage. Please tell us what you’re correct about.
Yes, I’m a Secret Agent Man, and we’re all watching you.
—“Larry” from “St. Louis”
They must be taking them in denser and denser. You can’t hold an argument together for love nor money. Go ‘debate’ on your own sites, where people will pay serious attention to you.
Lamby:
‘Damn, Jaded., correct about what?
Have some pride in yourself. Be responsible for your beliefs. Have a bit of courage. Please tell us what you’re correct about.’
I already have you silly billy. Correct in my hypothesis that you – as the seeming ‘answerer to unlimited questions’ on this site – would provide no answers to my questions. See my post at 10.57p.m. for further clarification. Are you drunk or something? Please don’t hesitate to approach me for further assistance Lamby.
angrysoba
I think ‘holocaust denial’ is an umbrella term,if you like,that ghettoizes anyone who questions any aspect of the ‘official’ discourse – so it doesn’t just apply to nutters who deny it.
This is a tiresome discussion to engage in,especially with someone who appears to be narrow-minded and patronizing.
Happy 2010.
What Keeps me Going is My Wife
I have a Muscular Problem and slowly have to build up to this…
Its about conditioning my muscles…
Slowly buildng up to this…
You know Mosh Pit Stuff – Like Teenage Kids Do…
Well I Hugged and Kissed EVERYONE after The Mosh Dance Oud Lang Zyne
The Only People I actually lifted off the floor were Blokes
The African Chef was exceedingly heavy
Tony
Happy New Year to you too, MS.
“I think ‘holocaust denial’ is an umbrella term,if you like,that ghettoizes anyone who questions any aspect of the ‘official’ discourse – so it doesn’t just apply to nutters who deny it.”
Okay, so you have said that the Holocaust is a fact but you don’t like the way the word “denier” is thrown around. But what “aspects” of the official discourse do you think are squeezed out by this term. What questions about the Holocaust (or, perhaps as Jaded curiously has it, the ‘Holocaust’) do you think are legitimate that don’t get enough debate?
Also, I’d like to point out a couple of ironies I’ve just noticed.
1) While some commenters here are pouting about the use of the term “denier” limiting free inquiry it was David Irving who took Deborah Lipstadt to court in a libel case for calling him a Holocaust denier.
(And, as has been pointed out, whatever the laws are in Germany and in other countries where the actual Holocaust took place, Holocaust denial is not illegal in the UK, the US or here in Japan.)
2) While Craig Murray made a post suggesting I wanted comments to be removed and I was some kind of anti-freespeech ogre, it continues to be commenters who disapprove of MY comments calling for censorship.
Here is the indefatigably obtuse Jaded:
“And angrysoab and Larry the Lamb are shills and it would indeed be the best thing for decent humanity to delete their comments and ban them. It’s so obvious it’s funny… ;-0”
MS, I’ll rephrase my question to make it clearer:
“What questions about the Holocaust (or, perhaps as Jaded curiously has it, the ‘Holocaust’) do you think are legitimate that are suppressed by the word “denier”?”
Angry Soab,
In England where we live, we don’t give a fuck what the colour of your skin is, nor your race or religion…
You can believe what the fuck you want
You can look like what the fuck you want
But don’t come over here to England talking Welsh or Scottish or Irish
If you want to talk to me in a most extreme dialect
Speak English Slowly or Buy Me a Pint
Or Fuck Off
Tony
Allah, Glory be to Him in the highest, states in the Qur’an that a high proportion of human beings are trouble makers. It’s not always easy for seekers of truth to put their fingers on the precise way that the trouble-making is being achieved. It is more like a taste in the mouth. As a Muslim I can now detect the flavour of bacon in nano quantities from the knife used to cut a shop sandwich. But I couldn’t explain the slightly acidic flavour or how I can detect it.
Similarly, I can explain the difference between a racist nationalist tyrant like Saddam Hussain and a politically correct, anything goes liberal, democratically elected politician like Tony Blair. I can detect lying like I can detect bacon fat and Tony Blair is a liar and Saddam was not.
Saddam wanted to reverse the effects of Western colonialism that had stolen oil and self-respect from the Arab world but Nationalism was not the Islamic answer and he was definitely misguided. But Tony Blair wanted to continue the theft from and humiliation of the Muslim world and he has used lies against Islam and Allah to achieve his ends. All I can say is that lying and not lying is not the same taste.
Trolls are chewy and misguided, but to be misguided is human. Our present world leaders come across as menacing and mischievous, absolutely uncaring, while pretending to be caring. they always seem to land butter side up. In my opinion, anyone who trusts any of them at this present time has lost his / her faculty of conscience. They are what Muslims refer to as the Anti-christ, not because they are the anti-christ in person but because that appears to be their taste.
Those of us who seek truth are being trained by practising with these deviant and devious liars and their legions of semi-articulate trolls, how not to be deceived by the real, and approaching Anti-christ.
“Angry Soab,
In England where we live, we don’t give a fuck what the colour of your skin is, nor your race or religion…
You can believe what the fuck you want
You can look like what the fuck you want
But don’t come over here to England talking Welsh or Scottish or Irish
If you want to talk to me in a most extreme dialect
Speak English Slowly or Buy Me a Pint
Or Fuck Off
Tony”
Tony, at this point it may well be past your bedtime. You’ve hit the loopyjuice pretty hard, I can see, but it is New Year so don’t worry about that.
Night night.
(Please forgive Tony – there’s no breathalyser fitted to his PC as yet.)
Larry and angry-soab: Do you support this War On Terror? If so, why haven’t you signed up for combat? I’d appreciate a straightforward answer, if you would be so kind.
Perhaps you are currently very old, and possibly infirm. Unless that has always been the case, which wars have you fought in? I’m sure there have been wars you approve of while you were of military age. There is _always_ a war or two being waged by America, in which the entire nation is about to go under without extraordinary sacrifice and courage.
*
Happy new year/ decade to all, even to you self-flagellating right wingers who work so hard against your own interests!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c98qdFQF7sw