“Am I sometimes exasperated by the barmier entries, including by those who appear to believe that all terrorism is always false flag? Yes, I am sometimes. But no more than I am exasperated by those who swallow the entire war on terror agenda and the associated wars and attacks on liberty at home.”
I am having an interesting dialogue with angrysoba in comments on his blogpost about one of my blogposts. Some people don’t seem to get the concept of open debate. Angrysoba appears to be angry because he believes it is wrong for anyone to be allowed to express views which he deplores.
http://angrysoba.blogspot.com/2009/12/british-ambassador-and-his-loony.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0IRY_eWuIw
“Larry and angry-soab: Do you support this War On Terror?”
I think the “War on Terror” is a stupid phrase, like “War on Drugs” or “War on Poverty” or “War on Crime” none of those things can ever surrender.
I also think that “New World Order” is a pat political phrase made by politicians who want to think they’ve actually got ideas and are not just another bland suit but it is a phrase that is taken by conspiracy theorists to mean some kind of exciting science fiction totalitarian society that the CTs are brave and noble dissidents against. They are fantasists and really wish people such as me and Larry were COINTELPRO agents as it makes them feel important and useful when they are, in reality, unimportant and useless.
Having said that it seems boring and conventional to point out that some people do want to blow up aircraft or underground trains and they will probably want to do that whether there are wars in Afghanistan or not.
So, my answer is, I don’t recognize the “war on terror” just as I don’t recognize the “New World Order.”
some years ago, i used to just testify my beliefs online, until i noticed that i wasnt doing my beliefs any service, without being civil and informed.
happy new decade
-god lets stop crushing people 🙁
Hi Craig,
I love this post, thank you for pointing out how this simple minded git called “angrysoab” is either an ignorant condescending fool, or a ignorant condescending facilitator.
I tend to believe he’s a facilitator, since he’s been personally to 9/11 events and has attempted to interrupt and corner people with this ‘holocaust denial=9/11 truth’ crap. Look his posts up on JREF ‘conspiracy theory’ subforum. He came out of nowhere like a good little facilitator, and now he’s all over the place, even at your site, Craig.
Angry, go back to your little James Randy Educational Forum, or back to the Screw loose change blogspot blog and continue posting your uninformed garbage there.
Leave this place alone, since it apparently is all bullshit. If you don’t like it, fuck off.
Go post a negative blog post about this man (craig) who has put his life on the line for your god damn freedom and your god damn children freedom.
If you were my school teacher, and i saw how you behave on the web, i would shoot myself for letting you ‘teach’ me. God forbid… You’ve come across as a child.
“I tend to believe he’s a facilitator, since he’s been personally to 9/11 events and has attempted to interrupt and corner people with this ‘holocaust denial=9/11 truth’ crap.”
Where do I say Holocaust denial is equal to 9/11 Troof?
“If you were my school teacher, and i saw how you behave on the web, i would shoot myself”
Then I wish I was your school teacher. Can we just pretend I am?
Angrysoba, you seem full of strong opinions. I wonder if you could perhaps provide any answers to my previous post that seemed to perplex Lamby. Here it is:
Jaded:
‘I see all the ‘Holocaust’ talk has started again. I do have a few questions for Lamby and soab if they will indulge me. If the ‘Holocaust’ is so set in stone, then why is it a crime to ‘deny’ it? I find it bizarre they went to the trouble of legislating on this issue. Is the basic assumption behind the legislation that everyone is incredibly stupid? Surely, if that were the case, it would make it nonsensical to legislate in the first place. Or is the basic assumption that everyone is a racist? Again, if that were the case, I don’t see legislation getting you very far. Finally, I always see ‘Holocaust denial’ inextricably linked with racism. I am flummoxed as to why a viewpoint on history automatically makes one a racist. Any explanation? To be clear, I am offering no opinion on the history here.’
Don’t let me down now son. I am waiting in great anticipation…
Jaded,
I don’t know why denying the Holocaust is illegal in some countries but I’ll have a guess and you can judge whether or not it sounds correct or perhaps tell us the real reason.
Could it be that just about all countries in which Holocaust denial is criminalized are countries which are understandably ashamed for their part in it? Could it be that they don’t want people in those countries trying to rehabilitate Hitler as some misunderstood genius as any underground neo-Nazis try to do? Could it be that most Holocaust deniers are not children who haven’t learnt much history yet but adults with political agendas who sift through the record looking for anomalies that they try to fashion “theories” out of?
I’ve told you what I think about anti-Holocaust denial legislation and that I don’t agree with incarcerating those who deny the Holocaust but you have to realize that it comes from a well-meaning attempt to be frank about past crimes. It is unfortunately counterproductive because it allows tossbags like yourself to say, “Oooh! in Austria it’s illegal to deny the Holocaust! That IS interesting…wonder if there’s a sinister reason behind it…”
No, you haven’t told me anything you dimwit. You’ve just posed a raft of hypothetical questions and not given your own position. On top of that you seem to have mistakenly put words in my mouth. That ceratinly doesn’t surprise me. For the record, laws against ‘Holocaust Denial’ exist in 13 countries. See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial#Laws_against_Holocaust_denial
I wonder what plans the E.U. might have for expanding these laws. I still await to hear your firm view on this issue and will remind you that you didn’t even attempt to answer my question of why ‘Holocaust Denial’ is inextricably linked with racism. Don’t fret though. It’s ok…
I’ve spent twelve hours drinking champagne in the company of beautiful women. But I think this blog is much better when it gets commenters with a wide range of opinions. I hope some of our intermittent or new interlocutors will stay with us.
Craig, could you substantiate your claim about the CIA torturing people with broken bottles?
Craig, you now have some familiar sicko falsifying posts with my tag. Please delete the offending bile. Yes, very clever little kiddie that did it. Bravo! 😉
Larry,
To the best of my knowledge, the CIA do not torture people with broken bottles. The Uzbek security services do, and the CIA hand people over to them to be tortured, and receive the resulting intelligence reports.
This debate is getting bogged down on the subject of holocaust denial.
Of course the holocaust happened. Millions of innocent people were brutally murdered by the evil Nazi regime.
But angrysoba still does not understand the difference between Zionism and Judaism as demonstrated by his reply at 2:21
“”Angry are you able to recognise the difference between Zionism and Judaism?”
Hmmm…That reminds me of something I read in a Theodore Dalrymple essay. He asked one of his patients in the prison he worked at, “Do you know the difference between guilty and not-guilty?” The prisoner replied, “Yes, guilty is where you admit what you did and not-guilty is where you don’t admit what you did.””
Judaism is a religion, Zionism is a political movement based on the premise that one group of people should be able to emigrate to Palestine and displace the indigenous population.
It is perfectly possible to be anti Zionist without being anti semitic (except in the eyes of the Israeli and US states)
Here is a good video of Craig denouncing Zionism nearly a year ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt4S8AGPGfk
Some ultra orthodox Jews are fiercely anti zionist like this lot.
http://www.nkusa.org/
Larry:
‘Yes, I’m a Secret Agent Man, and we’re all watching you.’
You are just a lowly internet dogsbody agent that may well actually believe the bile you are instructed to disseminate. They wouldn’t physically ‘watch’ me, as they’d have no reason to. They monitor the online activity of dissidents and you inevitably get stuck on some list. They probably have different criteria for a few different lists. If you piss the scumbags off a lot you probably graduate to the ‘harassment list’ where you will get irritated in various ways by the small element of ‘dogsbody’ police and security service employees that carry out such lowlife activities. But, of course, despite the concrete records of this happening in other countries it could never happen in the good old U.K.. Oh, no, no, no, no. We are different humans here… ;-0
@craig: “I’ve spent twelve hours drinking champagne in the company of beautiful women. But I think this blog is much better when it gets commenters with a wide range of opinions.”
I would have thought twelve hours spent drinking champagne in the company of beautiful women was much better than a blog, no matter how wide the range of commenters’ opinions.
Question for Larry: what are your views on the Patriot Act and do you think it should be renewed?
That was a good point about renewing the Patriot Act. They need filthy legislation like that to keep dissenting voices in check.
‘Yes, we are under attack from ‘Al Qaeda’ and we never seem to get Bin Laden, but we still manage to find the time to clamp down on Patriots at home.’
You couldn’t make it up. Honestly!
🙂
Jaded,
I am not “the answerman”. I explicitly told you I don’t know why there is legislation against denying the Holocaust. I simply gave you my speculation and I asked you to consider what I speculated.
Now, perhaps YOU can tell me why there is legislation against Holocaust denial…
THAT would be worth listening to.
Craig: “I hope some of our intermittent or new interlocutors will stay with us.”
I’ll be more than happy to.
I think I have made my position quite explicit. My quarrel with you was merely with the dismissive way in which you treated the attempted bombing of a civilian airline. I think you have moved gradually, if grudgingly, more towards my position on that.
But my quarrel with some of your commenters is much stronger.
Jaded?…..Bwah hah hah hah! Gotta love it –
“Mike Cobley, if you are declaring yourself a barmy conspiracy theorist, then it clarifies it, as these things are not done out ‘in the open’. They are done under official narratives that talk of WMD, hunting terrorists and promoting democracy. Unless you wish to furnish me with an example of where this is done ‘in the open’? Seems you may just be a loon… ;-0”
Well, its like this. To someone like myself (who follows Chomsky’s edict ‘Pay attention to what they do before you pay attention to what they say’) the war of aggression waged against Iraq then Afghanistan was clearly done for imperial purposes. Sure, I was aware of the deceit in the official MSM narratives, along with a sizable proportion of the populace. So, Jaydid, seems to me that we’re actually on the same side here, unless you are really just a fireeater who will eat fire, even if they have to light it themselves!
And I can’t be a loon, cos I dont come from Troon 😉
angrysoba:
‘Jaded,
I am not “the answerman”. I explicitly told you I don’t know why there is legislation against denying the Holocaust. I simply gave you my speculation and I asked you to consider what I speculated.
Now, perhaps YOU can tell me why there is legislation against Holocaust denial…
THAT would be worth listening to.’
Well, here it comes so listen, listen good, you dumbass. I can think of NO good reason why there is ‘legislation’ against ‘Holocaust denial’. It’s insane!
Mike Cobley:
‘Jaded?…..Bwah hah hah hah! Gotta love it –
“Mike Cobley, if you are declaring yourself a barmy conspiracy theorist, then it clarifies it, as these things are not done out ‘in the open’. They are done under official narratives that talk of WMD, hunting terrorists and promoting democracy. Unless you wish to furnish me with an example of where this is done ‘in the open’? Seems you may just be a loon… ;-0”
Well, its like this. To someone like myself (who follows Chomsky’s edict ‘Pay attention to what they do before you pay attention to what they say’) the war of aggression waged against Iraq then Afghanistan was clearly done for imperial purposes. Sure, I was aware of the deceit in the official MSM narratives, along with a sizable proportion of the populace. So, Jaydid, seems to me that we’re actually on the same side here, unless you are really just a fireeater who will eat fire, even if they have to light it themselves!
And I can’t be a loon, cos I dont come from Troon ;-)’
I hope we are on the same side Mike. If we are, then that makes us conspiracy theorists ‘for now’. Have you seen these videos by the way Mike?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03T1VvMJNxk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5vCOnk9CKk&feature=related
Angrysoba, Meacher and Von Bulow are ‘nutters’ right? *Nods head vigorously.* ;-0
Mike Cobley:
‘Jaded?…..Bwah hah hah hah! Gotta love it –
“Mike Cobley, if you are declaring yourself a barmy conspiracy theorist, then it clarifies it, as these things are not done out ‘in the open’. They are done under official narratives that talk of WMD, hunting terrorists and promoting democracy. Unless you wish to furnish me with an example of where this is done ‘in the open’? Seems you may just be a loon… ;-0”
Well, its like this. To someone like myself (who follows Chomsky’s edict ‘Pay attention to what they do before you pay attention to what they say’) the war of aggression waged against Iraq then Afghanistan was clearly done for imperial purposes. Sure, I was aware of the deceit in the official MSM narratives, along with a sizable proportion of the populace. So, Jaydid, seems to me that we’re actually on the same side here, unless you are really just a fireeater who will eat fire, even if they have to light it themselves!
And I can’t be a loon, cos I dont come from Troon ;-)’
I hope we are on the same side Mike. If we are, then that makes us conspiracy theorists ‘for now’. Have you seen these videos by the way Mike?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03T1VvMJNxk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5vCOnk9CKk&feature=related
Angrysoba, Meacher and Von Bulow are ‘nutters’ right? *Nods head vigorously.* ;-0
Jaded: “Well, here it comes so listen, listen good, you dumbass. I can think of NO good reason why there is ‘legislation’ against ‘Holocaust denial’. It’s insane!”
You’re a fucking idiot.
Just because you can’t think it doesn’t mean there is no reason.
You fucking Nazi Cunt.
“You f*cking Nazi C*nt.”
Decent!
“Angrysoba, Meacher and Von Bulow are ‘nutters’ right?”
Yes, they can be nutters, and they are in fact nutters. Occasionally nutters get elected.
wow angrysoba lost the cool, and the argument, i wonder if he’ll go now to JREF or SLC or his own blogspot shithole and post how ‘craig murray is a nut’ and how we’re all nutters here for questioning 9/11 and the consequent war on terror.
all from his nice cozy government paid room in Japan…
sad sad sad
Angrysoba:
‘You’re a fucking idiot.
Just because you can’t think it doesn’t mean there is no reason.
You fucking Nazi Cunt.’
You never answered the question of why ‘Holocaust denial’ always seems to be inextricably linked to racism by the way. I think it is a very important questions and needs answering. I have thought about using logic. Surely, any ‘anti-semitic nutter’ would be glorifying the ‘Holocaust’ and not denying it? That’s how I see it.
Any historical discourse that needs backing up by legislation seems very shaky to me. The Jews, other groups too, suffered dreadful persecution in the years leading up to the war and during the war. It was all terrible and shocking. The question of planned total extermination is a pertinent one though. They were certainly used as a source of labour in some camps. Why would the Nazis brand with numbers, absolutely disgusting I know, people they were going to kill? Admittedly, every Jew that died from malnutrition, illness etc. may as well have been murdered. Furthermore, the Nazis may well have tested gas on the Jews. If the Nazis had won maybe their fate would have been genocidal, I don’t know. At the end of the day, I think the 6 million mantra of systematic extermination is a cynical exaggeration. It was used to help set up Israel and has been used ever since for political capital. Israel is here now and I favour a two state solution. I don’t have a problem with Israel. However, I think they should stop trying to rule the U.K. and U.S. and sod off out of our governments! If Israel got ‘unjustly attacked’ I would speak out and support backing them militarily. That’s obviously because i’m a real NAZI CUNT! ;-0
Larry:
‘Yes, they can be nutters, and they are in fact nutters. Occasionally nutters get elected.’
Brilliant analysis Lamby…