Happy Christmas Everybody!!
I just saw an eyewitness on BBC TV News recount that the Nigerian man who set fire to his leg on a Delta flight was shouting “about Afghanistan”. Which proves yet again that by occupying Afghanistan we are provoking, not preventing, attempted terrorism.
Regular readers know that I fly out of Schiphol some thirty times a year. Security there is ultra tight – in fact a real pain in the neck – with intensive searches and x rays actually at gate. The non-explosive and non-dangerous (as it proved) substance he had might very well prove to be duty free alcohol – it is being described by the US authorities as “incendiary” rather than “explosive”. But the BBC is still referring to an “Explosive mixture”, even though it plainly was not “explosive” as it did not explode.
It seems to me most improbable that if Abdul Faroukh really was working for Al-Qaida, he would have been quite so open about it, as it is claimed he is being. But we will doubtless see this incident ramped up more and more to justify the occupation of Afghanistan. A BBC “security correspondent” is waffling on even now about “sophisticated explosive devices”. In fact it sounds as about as effective as a christmas cracker.
Don’t let it spoil your turkey sandwiches. How long before Brown is on screen explaining this is why we have to be in Afghanistan?
i think hes just hopelessly lost :/
That was me – I demand credit!!!!!!!!!
Good luck with the crazy.
What I find really funny about the right wing nutters from the wrong side of the Atlantic is the “Muslims want everyone to become Muslim” stuff.
Yes? So? Isn’t that what every religion wants?
Dear Craig
I bet you’re feeling a right fucking charlie now for being so dismissive of the “silly Nigerian”.
Dear Craig
I bet you’re feeling a right fucking charlie now for being so dismissive of the “silly Nigerian”.
Arsalan Goldberg,
Wrong side of the Atlantic? You mean the one with free speech?
No, I don’t think that all Muslims want everyone in the world to be Muslim. In fact it’s obvious that most Muslims have a typical “live on let live” attitude.
An extremely good example of this is Muslims in the U.S.
What I was getting at above is the status of Muslims in Britain and the silly goose liberals who coddle them.
BNP Hater:
‘”Why didn’t he got to the toilet?”
His seat was just above a fuel tank. The bathroom was not just above a fuel tank.
Moron.’
So, after the dramatic near miss of Richard Reid they decided to get this guy to set his pants alight over the fuel tank? I take it the great ‘Al Qaeda’ are competent to make some working explsoives? Detonating it in the toilet would have crashed the plane big time! Why would they want to ‘blow up’ the plane mid air, assuming that the explosive even penetrated the fuel tank as well as the fuselage, when it would cause much more damage and terror crashing down en masse? Moreover, why would they even risk that after the failure of Reid?! They got the guy on the plane and he had the power to do it with no interferance whatsoever, ‘supposedly’. What a load of tosh! The fuselage wasn’t even marked. What a desdly terrorist! LMFAO. It’s the biggest fantasy i’ve ever heard! Furthermore, notice how they had the new security measures all planned out for us the very next day! LOL. You even signed your post – ‘Moron’. Nice touch!
As for 9/11 and 7/7, I just don’t even bother any more. Anyone with two functioning brain cells and basic common sense can figure those false flags out after a few minutes thought.
Ruth, I suggest you just ignore these freaks of nature. 😉
Larry, you can just refer to ‘Comment 72’ like the other plonkers…
Ruth
You are looking for sanity in US politics?
I am a great admirer of your comments so I apologise for replying with only conjecture on this one.
I agree with Arsalan Goldberg that Mutalab is trying to make a point. I think the point he’s making is that it stinks to have a Muslim dad whose living comes from haram banking.
As you observe, he’s handed on a plate to the CIA, who tell him by agent provocateur, what to do. They don’t want him to burn the plane down, by starting a fire in the toilet. Muslims obey commands. So I’m contradicting my own comment above that there was no agent provocateur. There is always one.
Why does Obama want this to happen? Because he has an African colonial agenda which he is itching to begin.
MacChrystal has been left in charge of Pakistan and the time has come to move on.
Please note that Obama trained his sights on China over the Copenhagen summit, at a time when unity was appropriate. In my opinion he has China’s African Trade as a grievance he can sell to his domestic market. That’s why his handlers chose and trained him, because he’s an African.
Sorry, Larry in St. Louis, nobody here believes that Obama had a Muslim education, except in order to be able to pose as a friend to Islam.
Secondly, the Western press is trying to chill the Islamic Revolution in Iran with reports of demonstrations. In the Middle East people are now expressing their dissatisfaction in a way that is unthinkable in the US or UK because in Iran they have not been brainwashed by the media as we have here in Western countries.
Far from Islamic fervour decreasing in the world, maybe we will soon see the post-feminists in the West who have failed to defeat male colonialism through sexual revolution, putting on the burkah and defeating our power crazed leaders through an Iranian-style religious revolution.
Lastly, I heard Roy Hattersley bemoaning the arrival of stream of consciousness blogging encroaching into UK political discussion. The old socialist theoreticians who gave way so graciously to the new capitalist theoreticians of Thatcherism, are now being thrown by the arrival of conscience in the political arena. The old theories from both sides were good bedtime stories for children, but both failed sets of rules have had to be dumped after the harsh realities of this global recession. Politics is now polarised between the Brown -Obama all grasping Zionist banking New World Order on the one side , and conscience and Islam on the other, in my opinion.
anno,
Thank you, thank you for proving my points far better than I ever could.
You are one big bag of crazy. Just the type of person who Craig Murray attracts with his beliefs.
Hah Glenn and Mark. Hah.
“Craig, you seem to have some fairly obvious trolls/black-ops-shills multi-posting on this thread, specifically Angrysoba and Agent XYZ. Is it your policy to let such wreckers’ posts stay up?”
I love being referred to as a shill (although “black-ops shill” is a new one for me). It just proves to me that I am talking to a completely crazy person.
” Just clutters up, confuses and diverts actually-useful discussion into ridiculous flame-duels, after all, which is its purpose.”
You don’t need my help to be confused. I think you get all of that from such sites as “WHAT REALLY HAPPENED”.com with its campaign to release the “political prisoner” Ernst Zundel and there is absolutely nothing “useful” about a discussion in which it is hinted that because the vending machines in the airport were made in Israel then obviously that’s who was behind the bombing. Has anybody checked where his underpants were made? If it reads “Made in China” will you conclude it was a plot by Hu Jintao to suppress the Uigyurs in East Turkestan?
@Jaded,
Your Holmes-like observation that I am posting at various times in the middle of the night fails to take into account the fact that I am not posting in the UK. There are these things called timezones you see, which confuses an awful lot of silly Troofers when they start saying things about Payne Stewart’s plane.
Jaded: “As for 9/11 and 7/7, I just don’t even bother any more. Anyone with two functioning brain cells and basic common sense ”
Well, that’s you out for a start.
Wow..things getting a little heated here…Craig does not delete posts often, he likes open debate unless it becomes personal, and I know this first hand as he has removed a few of my posts, on one occasion for threatining to bust a certain person’s nose for insulting Craig’s wife, and quite rightly so ( the removal that is, not the insult)I personally enjoy logging on to the blog to read diverse views from all cultures and creeds. We all should be open to other peoples views and opinions, however much we disagree. Insulting each other simply get’s us nowhere.
King of Welsh Noir, thanks for the kind words.
However, I don’t agree that the nineteen hijackers were “patsies”. It seems irrelevant that they got their visas at the consulate in Jeddah, they had to get them somehwere after all. I also don’t understand the relevance of whether or not one of them got into a fight in a bar beforehand.
As for Oswald, some people seem to find it suspicious that he was openly vehemently pro-Castro before shooting Kennedy. Why wouldn’t he be? This is the “how convenient” objection that conspiracy theorists have when they find someone acted consistently with their beliefs. But of course, David Ray Griffin likes to point out that a 9/11 hijacker going to a lap-dancing bar is inconsistent with the behaviour of a radical Muslim. So for conspiracy theorists the logic is “heads I win, tails you lose.”
Frazer, for my part, I fully stand by every word i’ve said. That’s not to say I don’t appreciate the general gist of your comment. I’d be surpirsed if you can’t see that there are security service internet agents on Craig’s blog, but c’est la vie. I completely agree with Rhisiart Gwilym and Glenn and have said it to Craig myself before. Ditch the shills. It’s because Craig’s so decent that he gives everyone the benefit of the doubt. However, I think he knows that the scrotes are indeed here and that they damage his blog. I made my comments and stopped conversing with them one by one. Funny how a ‘new name’ keeps cropping up spouting the same bullshit isn’t it?! I’ve been on forums and blogs for years and I don’t look for arguments. When I see freaks around I feel obliged to out them though, as these are very serious issues that affect us all deeply.
“I’d be surpirsed if you can’t see that there are security service internet agents on Craig’s blog”
Ha ha ha!
I know that Craig’s budget for his blog probably doesn’t stretch to fancy stuff like Slash, but perhaps he should speak to his techie to see if something similar could be implemented – the idea is that posters can award points, positive or negative – to other posts, and then elect not to see posts below a certain point value. This means that Craig does not have to delete posts, something he tries to avoid, but at the same time any visitor who wants to separate signal from noise can screen out the work of professional noise generators like angrysoba.
To an extent it is worth seeing their posts, however, as it does give one a picture of the strength of the case against those who dispute the official accounts of 9/11 and 7/7: they’re just nutjobs, wingnuts, tinfoil hat wearers and morons. Who could resist such persuasive argument?
I found a rather interesting paper which may be of interest to others. It was written by engineers who believe that WTC7 was indeed brought down by fire and debris damage and not, as the conspiracy theorists claim, by controlled demolition. What is interesting is that they dismiss the NIST report in terms even more emphatic than the conspiracy theorists. Some excerpts:
“The assessment of WTC7 appears to conclude that composite beams are extremely suscepible to failure due to thermal expansion. This is not our experience at all.”
“We do not agree with the calculations on p. 347 indicating shear stud failure.”
“the LS-DYNA analysis on pp. 349-354 locks in thermal stresses by imposing no translation at all slab edges and no thermal expansion or temperature rise in the slab. Both are unrealistic.”
“We conducted a series of 21 standard fire tests […] There was no indication that shear stud failure could cause premature failure.”
“When the beam subsequently buckles, it is also removed from the analysis. This is quite unrealistic.” (i.e. the NIST analysis says that a bent beam ceases to exist as a structural member).
“This analysis appears to produce a gross underestimate of strength.”
“The thermal response calculations appear strange.”
And perhaps most tellingly:
“The proposed method of analysis of WTC7 does not appear to have been previously applied to any known cases, such as standard fire tests or the Cardington fire tests and varies considerably from previous analyses of such tests and experiments.”
Read it all here
http://wtc.nist.gov/comments08/davidProeandIanThomaswtc7comments.pdf
Part 1
I know that Craig’s budget for his blog probably doesn’t stretch to fancy stuff like Slash, but perhaps he should speak to his techie to see if something similar could be implemented – the idea is that posters can award points, positive or negative – to other posts, and then elect not to see posts below a certain point value. This means that Craig does not have to delete posts, something he tries to avoid, but at the same time any visitor who wants to separate signal from noise can screen out the work of professional noise generators like angrysoba.
To an extent it is worth seeing their posts, however, as it does give one a picture of the strength of the case against those who dispute the official accounts of 9/11 and 7/7: they’re just nutjobs, wingnuts, fruitcakes, tinfoil hat wearers and morons. Who could resist such persuasive argument?
Oops – sorry for partial double post – thought it had thrown out the first as too long.
anno
Yes, I agree that ‘politics is now polarised between the Brown -Obama all grasping Zionist banking New World Order on the one side , and conscience and Islam on the other..’
But also that there’s a growing gap between those that have and those that are losing. Many of those that have have been rewarded with positions in companies especially security companies, many of which I believe have been set up with funds secretly diverted from the taxpayers ie through VAT carousel fraud etc
“why didn’t he go to the toiler”
He did. perhaps he was too scared to go through with it and left it too late to prime the explosives ? Perhaps he ran out of time and got booted out when the plane began its descent so he had to do it in his seat? That would be my personal bet, that he shat himself until it was almost too late but I don’t know. None of you know. But to assume it is just some sort of CIA plot marks you out as arseholes, not visionaries.
He didn’t succeed, that doesn’t mean he was set-up to fail – it almost certainly means that he was a useless little twat.
I agree with Vronksy, sometimes I feel this site desperately needs a slashdot style moderation system.
I actually think there is some truth to both what the ‘shills’ and the ‘tin foil hat’ wearers are saying. But due to the tedious and pointless fighting there is no way any useful information can emerge.
Plenty of people like to make ‘right wing’ comments or question conspiracy theories without being in the pay of big brother. Just as many people see problems with state and corporate power without being paranoid.
If someone is being a fuckwit, just ignore them or rationally debunk their position with facts. DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS.
Oh and BTW the comments about this being a ‘brit’ site seem kinda stupid considering it’s on the internet. Also the content of Craig’s blog and books is relative to many people from all over the world.
AngrySoba
The point is not so much that their behaviour was inconsistent with being radical Muslims (although I submit whichever spook came up with the idea of them leaving a copy of the Koran behind in the lap-dancing bar needs to do his homework more thoroughly), it’s that their behaviour was clearly designed to draw attention to them so the flatfoots could pick up their well-advertised trail immediately after the attack.
Does the Jackal walk into a bar on the eve of an attempted assassination, get drunk, shout ‘Death to the President!’, and leave his ‘Jackal the Assassin’ business card on the counter before leaving? of course not. But the hijackers did. Lee Harvey Oswald (together with a series of look-alikes – yeah, I know, scoff -) went around causing trouble and announcing his name everywhere. Went to a rifle range and shot his neighbour’s target, argued and shouted out his name etc. Another LHO hitchhiked to Dallas carrying a long thin package which he told the driver contained curtained rods, told him his name, spent the whole journey fantasising about assassinating the President from the roof of a building, showed the driver a photo of him holding a rifle and asked if he thought it would be suitable for an assassination attempt. He got out at the Texas Book Depository, then took the ‘curtain rods’ inside the building etc. Real assassins don’t behave like this.
Similarly the hijackers left a trail of breadcrumbs behind for the gullible: One group of Arabs checked out of a hotel leaving behind a duffel bag containing Boeing 757 manuals, FAA flight path maps for the East Coast, a flight map protractor, three Ju-Jitsu martial arts books, oh and ?” for the slow learners ?” a box cutter in the room.
KingofWelsh,
is it not also the case that Mohammad Attas’ suitcase was the only one pulled off the flight and his will and other incriminating stuff was found in it? These are not theories – these and other pertinent details are called facts.
Thanks to Frazer Rhisiart , Ruth and Glenn for keeping this debate alive with their sensible and interesting points.
I for one am not interested in managing trolls who come here to obfuse and engage us in their agenda. We know who they are, why they are here and for what purpose, usually its when you hit a chink in their armour that they come out to play.
The points about extremism always finding a way to hurt us is true.
The question has to be raised as to why the CIA, after being warned by his dad, let this man bord a plane, who is the weakest link and failed to spot this mislead young man.
The breach of Yemens territory by a US drone many years back and their subsequent judge juror and execution of suspected terrorist in a car, led us to discuss the death of sovereignity.
That event was also the first strike that ignited yemenis and made them join Al quaeda. This action is directly related to that event and to the western sponsored Saudi intrusions of late.
Obamas pre election promises have all disappeared in the quagmire of his day to day politicking. Sending an extra 35.000 to Afghanistan will act like a magnet to believers of fundamentalists faith and Pakistan must be worried after arresting five american muslims with advanced plans for nuclear installations in the pockets.
I also fear that Iarn has been softened up enough now by our black ops and will soon provide distraction from the ghetto situation in Gaza.
Currently the peace march, distributing help and highlighting the unchaged and dire situation in Gaza, some 1400 marchers has been halted by Egyptian police, they are holed up some 40 m iles off the Gaza border. A chap I know Peter Orford, an art therapist who was hoping to distribute art material to the traumatised children of Gaza, has contacted the Norwich EDP and protested against their incarceration by riot police who have surrounded the village their were staying in.
As I was just trying to look up the article and send you a link, it had disappeared from the EDP website, even a search for the story on their own search engine, did not reveal the article I read earlier on, it has been pulled from above…sorry.
Anybody heard of it?
King of Welsh Noir,
All I can say is that it sounds like the hijackers did incriminate themselves. But then again, why would they care about being incriminated by anyone after the event? They wanted to be martyrs and they probably wanted the world to know who did the deeds.
This isn’t surprising if they were committing a suicidal attack. They’d probably have been shocked if they knew that despite giving every indication of who carried out 9/11 and why there are still people saying, “Yeah right! Everyone knows it was the New World Order wot done it!”
I saw a picture of a “Lee Harvey Oswald lookalike” once. He looked nothing like Oswald. And would Oswald have yakked on about killing the president before doing so? Why not? He was also later implicated in the attempted assassination of Major General Edwin Walker with the same gun seven months earlier. And then of course Oswald shot and killed Officer Tippett in front of witnesses (one of whom picked Oswald out of an identity parade – where are those “lookalikes” when you need them?)while fleeing the scene.
Anyway, we’re now really going off topic so let’s get back to the flight from Amsterdam to Detroit.
There has apparently been a claim of responsibility for the attack by a group calling itself “al Qaeda” as a group with the same name claimed responsibility for 9/11.
How authentic it is I don’t know.
After ringing up the paper, the link mysteriously appeared again, here it is.
http://www.edp24.co.uk/content/edp24/news/story.aspx?brand=EDPOnline&category=News&tBrand=EDPOnline&tCategory=xDefault&itemid=NOED28%20Dec%202009%2018%3A21%3A31%3A437
What is the fascination with Amsterdam?.Robin Reid used the exact same airport to fly to of all places,Israel.Saajid Badat,I bet people have forgotten about him,intended to fly into Amsterdam just to fly out again en route to blowing himself up on the way to America,the exact same scenario.Of course Badat was trained in non explosive,explosives in Afghanistan whereas Abdul Muttalad was trained in non explosive underpants in Yemen.Obama will be extending the war on terror into Yemen based on yet another false flag operation and they did not even have to change the script.
“What is the fascination with Amsterdam?.”
It’s a busy hub. People change planes there, a lot. Just ask Craig Murray.
Eyewitnesses on the plane have reported that a ‘mystery’ cameraman filmed the whole flight. Interesting detail.