The Iraq Inquiry has taken us back again to that period where the government had engaged in a massive military build up ready to invade Iraq, and was desperately looking for evidence on WMD to trigger the invasion – an invasion on which the Washington neo-cons had pinned their entire hopes for the future of the Bush presidency.
Just at that crucial time, one of the UK’s foremost experts on Iraqi WMD had let slip to the BBC that the government’s claims did not stand up. As a result, he was found dead in a wood, while the BBC journalist, Andrew Gilligan, who correctly reported that there were no WMD, was fired for telling the truth.
The punishment of the BBC for failing to unquestioningly echo Blair lies went much further. The Chairman and Director General were forced out. All because the BBC said there may have been no WMD, when there were not.
It is almost incredible even now to state what New Labour have done. God know what future historians will make of it.
The BBC was traumatised, and went through an acceleration of cultural change that prized “managers” over journalists, and stopped criticising government. A foundation stone of democracy had been blasted away by Tony Blair.
Kelly’s death was extremely convenient for Blair, Cheney and a myriad of other ultra ruthless people. It paved the way for war. We should not forget how very crucial the WMD issue was in convincing enough reluctant New Labour MPs to go along. Without the UK there would have been no coalition – most of the other Europeans would have quickly dropped out too. It is by no means clear that, despite Cheney’s bluster, the Americans would have invaded Iraq alone.
So Kelly was the first man killed in the Iraq war. Hundreds of thousands of people died in Iraq after Kelly. Arms manufacturers, mercenary companies and the security industry made tens of billions in profit. That’s a powerful motive to remove an obstacle. The Western oil companies are getting back into Iraq.
We will never know if Kelly would have gone on to repeat his – perfectly correct – doubts about Iraqi WMD, or if he would have shut up, as ordered by Tony Blair through the MOD. I do know, as many doctors have attested, it is extremely unlikely to bleed to death by cutting a wrist. I do know that the paramedics who attended said there was very little blood at the scene. I do know that the painkillers he took were a tiny proportion of a fatal dose and were not an anticoagulant. I do know that a chemical weapons expert like Dr Kelly would know better ways to kill himself.
And I do know that the government is keeping the evidence hidden for seventy years.
angrysoba wrote “It has been speculated that the family didn’t want to be badgered by conspiracy theorists for the rest of their lives and wanted to get on with their own.”
So basically you’re positing a conspiracy theory with no evidence to back it up? Do you have one shred of evidence that the family requested the government ban release of all files on Kelly’s death for 70 years?
As for there being supposedly “no point” in shutting Kelly up after the war had already begun that’s nonsense given that Blair didn’t resign for two years after Kelly’s death and Bush had another Presidential election coming up in 2004 – and still hoped to go on to invade Iran. Either government had plenty to lose from continuing statements by an internationally recognised expert on their WMD claims having been known to be false at the time they made them – lots of votes to lose, lots of damage possible to their ‘legacies’ and reputations too.
On top of that it may well have been a warning to others not to break ranks.
Just to remind Larry & Soba about the original question, in case they got confused:
—-
Anyone got a proper picture of a jumbo jet hitting the Pentagon? The whole area was festooned with cameras, so surely there’s a decent still somewhere? Anyone? Better still, a reasonable quality moving picture.
ok, if that’s a bit too hard, how about a picture of the crashed plane – we all know what these terrible scenes look like, lots of bits of planes, seats, luggage all over the place. Would someone be so kind as to reference one? From the Pentagon and the Pennsylvania crash sites, please.
—-
So far, we’ve had plenty of bluster from Larry & Soba, but not a single reference.
Glenn: “Angrysoba & Larry – that’s good. Very good indeed, you both can accept that the government can and does indeed lie shamelessly to us. So not all Official Truths are based in fact.
Then why should you pair not also be called “loons”, by your own hitherto de facto definition of same?”
Glenn, I don’t even know how to begin to approach this latest brain fart.
We don’t define “loon” as not believing the government. But not believing the government doesn’t mean believing every world government and all media outlets are controlled by the many arms of Vishnu and pumping ZEE OFFICIAL STORY straight into the cerebral cotexes of the sheeple.
I did point out that it is ironic, is it not, that on the David Kelly issue, the BBC and the Daily Mail have been critical of the government. The Guardian published letters from the doctors who don’t believe it was suicide and the Daily Telegraph asked Blair if he had blood on his hands. Is this the supine state-controlled matrix that only you and a few others here are capable of seeing through?
Glenn, could you define “Official Truths” for me and “Official Story”.
Duncan, I find it funny that you demand evidence of angrysoba but in the next breath state that Bush was just about to invade Iran.
Bush was never going to invade Iran, silly. It would cause too much death, and it probably wouldn’t have worked.
Angry: How about putting all us “9/11” conspiracy theorists out of our misery, and reference some proper images of a jumbo hitting the Pentagon, as I’ve asked you for repeatedly? Or how about even acknowledging that you’ve understood what I’ve just said?
“So basically you’re positing a conspiracy theory with no evidence to back it up? Do you have one shred of evidence that the family requested the government ban release of all files on Kelly’s death for 70 years?”
It was in the Mail article that is the source for this post.
“Nicholas Gardiner, the Chief Coroner for Oxfordshire, confirmed that he had seen the letter.
Speaking to The Mail on Sunday today, he said: ?I know that Lord Hutton made that recommendation. Someone told me at the time. Anybody concerned will be dead by then, and that is quite clearly Lord Hutton?s intention.?
Asked what was in the records that made it necessary for them to be embargoed, Mr Gardiner said: ?They?re Lord Hutton?s records not mine. You?d have to ask him.?
He added that in his opinion Lord Hutton had embargoed the records to protect Dr Kelly?s children.”
Glenn, and what will happen when you have those pictures?
Angry wrote: “We don’t define “loon” as not believing the government. But not believing the government doesn’t mean believing every world government and all media outlets are controlled by the many arms of Vishnu and pumping ZEE OFFICIAL STORY straight into the cerebral cotexes of the sheeple.”
That’s fine. Nor do I, nor – I hazzard – does anyone here. So what do you think gives you the right to start calling people “loons” around here? What’s the definition for that? Your strawman above does not – of course – count.
larry asks: “Glenn, and what will happen when you have those pictures?”
Please refer to my previous replies to you on the same question.
“On top of that it may well have been a warning to others not to break ranks.”
When you think about it, Norman Baker, Rowena Thursby, Glenn, Duncan McFarlane, the Daily Mail, the BBC, dreoilin, MJ et al. are very brave.
I don’t see your reply on that one.
“So what do you think gives you the right to start calling people “loons” around here?”
Okay, I admit it isn’t very nice. It comes from frustration.
Have you ever read Carl Sagan’s Demon-Haunted World?
Ruth: “The only logical conclusion is that Hutton is part of the conspiracy to hide the murder of Dr Kelly by the intelligence services.”
Ruth, it really isn’t “the only logical conclusion”.
For many, it clearly is the only acceptable conclusion, but that is not the same thing.
Wouldn’t the next government have the power to overturn this decision to keep the medical records secret?
Why have the Conservatives not pledged to do this, should they come to power?
“Wouldn’t the next government have the power to overturn this decision to keep the medical records secret?”
I would have thought so but where’s the conspiracy and vicarious self-pity in that?
for those wanting an excuse to wear a tin foil hat re: the pentagon cruise missile
google Pentalawn 2000
Was Dr. kelly in any way pressured by the work he was undertaking outside the Iraq chemical weapons debate? Something nobody wants to get into, although his lack of Iraqi evidence did seem to be the important factor in his untimely, as unexplained demise.
Jose Buscani was eeked out of his very successsfull job, he was also undermining the Bush/Blair drive to tarnish Saddam. His dismissal by US armtwisting in the UN, as head of the bioweapons convention which was already signed by many countries, I believe 138, more importantly his success in ‘just about’ signing up Saddam to the treaty, was equally in the way of the warmongers drive to war.
Both of them, together with Hans Blix perplexed search for ever more obscure and impossible location for WMD’s, moving trucks etc., was just too much opposition to their plans and the pressure from the likes of Cheney and his ilk must have been enormous.
I wonder whether Blix ever feared for his life.
Larry asks: “Glenn, and what will happen when you have those pictures?”
Please refer to my previous replies to you on the same question.
Posted by: glenn
I don’t see your reply on that one.
Posted by: Larry
And not a single picture of a huge plane hitting the Pentagon. He’s desperately trying to deflect the issue, but can’t. (Poor Larry. He knows only too well that there are no pictures he can provide, but he refuses to admit it.) So tell us Larry, where are the pictures? And why don’t you provide a link?
Are you expecting to see something like this?
http://www.thewebfairy.com/killtown/images/oddities/medusa.touch.cover.lg.jpg
Because you won’t find one as there aren’t any in circulation.
There are plenty of witnesses who said they saw the plane hit the Pentagon, however.
By the way, what do you think hit the Pentagon if it wasn’t a plane and where did the plane go?
Observer
Sunday 24 January 2010 at 8:44 pm
?”THE CONTENTS OF THIS EMAIL HAVE BEEN DELETED ON THE ADVICE OF THE SECURITY SERVICES
…from Tom Harris MP blog
Welcome to China – your future awaits
http://www.slideshare.net/neil2445/presentations
Massive list of comments riding off in all directions at once. Gather, people. Focus. This ruling of Hutton is totally unacceptable to anyone with an interest in truth. Tell your MP you find it unacceptable, and demand that the Ministry of Justice overthrows his ruling.
And Craig, your line length is too long. We have to mess with the slider as we read the sentences.
“Because you won’t find one as there aren’t any in circulation.”–angrysoba
I know. That’s the whole point. 🙂
“I know. That’s the whole point. :)”
And it means…?
“And Craig, your line length is too long. We have to mess with the slider as we read the sentences.”
—Richard Lawson
Apparently it’s caused on this page by the long string of “+++++”
posted by ‘CIA’ January 25 at 1:32 AM
Southpark, on 9/11. Just for fun 🙂
Mr. Hardly: Those clues pointed out that all the 9/11 conspiracy theories could be disproven scientifically. And that’s when Frank got his biggest clue.
Frank: It was huuuge.
Mr. Hardly: That all the 9/11 conspiracy Web sites are run by the government. The 9/11 conspiracy… is a government conspiracy.
Stan: Aw Jesus…
Kyle: Why would the government want people to believe they caused 9/11?
Mr. Hardly: For a government to have power, they must appear to have complete control. What better way to make people fear them than to convince them they are capable of the most elaborate plan on earth?
Bush: [off-screen] That’s quite enough, Hardly! [the camera shows him entering with his staff] Don’t believe what he says, boys; we caused 9/11. [brings forth a manila folder] It’s all right here in these secret documents, [hugs the folder tight] but you’ll never get them. [turns around as he yawns, dropping the folder to the floor behind him. No one picks them up]
Kyle: I knew it! You didn’t plan 9/11 and you really didn’t shoot that guy!
Bush: Boys, you don’t understand. People need to think we are all-powerful. That we control the world. If they know we weren’t in charge of 9/11 then… we appear to control nothing.
What was especially funny about the South Park episode was that the 911 truthtards actually thought that the South Park writers were supporting them. When you’re dealing with truthers, you’re not dealing with the smartest people.
Larry, hon, when I read words like ‘truthtards’ written without humour (or humor) I kind of want to support them too.
Shame because there is a seriously good, or awful point you make consistently, except rudely: that the mistrust, fear & paranoia engendered by crazy government activities feeds straight into the even crazier and even more unpleasant extreme right wing, which in turn feeds it back to the public disguised as ‘information’.
Except that the vast majority of people with such sensitivities don’t end up believing in lizard people and no planes on 911 and Roswell.
If seeking truth is retarded, then nature has played a cruel trick endowing our species with consciousness.
The lizard people are something else. (don’t think I’ve heard anyone on these boards believe in them).
“All tickets were gone six months in advance for David Icke’s all-day event at the O2 Brixton Academy in May this year and another event has been arranged to meet the demand to see David’s most advanced presentation yet.”