I watched Ross Kemp’s documentary on Paleastine yesterday and it was much better than I had expected. I have never watched any of his travel documentaries before – their advertising portrays them as “Our hard nut goes to see if other hard nuts are really as vicious as London East End gangsters”.
It is impossible, unless you are obscenely ill-motivated, to do a documentary in Gaza that does not leave you appalled at the plight of the Palestinian people there. But Kemp gave the Palestinians a much fairer and fuller hearing than I had expected, and while there was a great deal of editorial horror at the attitudes of Islamic terrorists and their supporters, it came over very strongly – and Kemp himself plainly “got”, that those attitudes were caused by the atrocities and indignities to which the Palestinians are subjected.
Which made Kemp’s documentary much more intelligent than Michael Portillo’s effort on Guantanamo. Portillo never for one moment questioned whether Islamic hatred of the West was in any sense caused or triggered. He seemed to accept that Guantanamo holds a core of “some 50” diehard terrorists who are intrinsically evil, and he agreed explicitly that they should be kept locked up forever even though there was no evidence against them that could stand up in court.
His glib “I am a politician and I know about tough decisions like abandoning legality” line was helped by two intellectual dishonesties. He never considered the causality of terrorism, and he did not mention the possibility that some of that “core” of fifty might be innocent. He described the moral dilemma as whether people you knew were guilty but could not prove it, should be locked up. Who says you know. they are guilty? I can tell you from first hand experience that a great deal of the War on Terror intelligence on individuals is woefully inaccurate and deliberatelly exagerrated.
Which Michael Portillo once seemed to understand:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/article495277.ece
Portillo reserved his compassion for the Uighurs, because they were anti-communist, and for the British ex-detainees who had been tortured. There was one particularly unsavoury piece of editing when showing a UK conference, at which an ex-detainee was making a very emotional and harrowing point; the director then cut away to a shot of Moazzam Begg grinning merrily and apparently completely inappropriately at the point.
The impression was given that cut-away was contemporaneous, and it made Moazzam look very bad. I don’t believe the cut-away was contemporaneous and think this was a deliberate bit of BBC demonisation. I don’t think it was genuine because of sound discontinuity, because BBC documentary crews nowadays almost never have two cameras, and because I know Moazzam.
Shoddy work.
“one of Jones’s finest contributions is his interview with film producer Aaron Russo. In the following extract Russo tells us, straight from the horses mouth, what the ruling elite have in store for us and, in ten devastating minutes, consigns once and for all the shrill witterings of the assorted angrylarrys of this world to the dustbin.”
Who is Aaron Russo?
MJ, explain to me how thermite, thermate, superthermite, nanothermite, liquid thermite or explosives or whichever one you are going with today did this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rbfLLp7rBI&feature=player_embedded
You can see this Tower buckling at the impact points!
Given that the collapse can be seen happening from steel losing its strenght, buckling and giving way (not MELTING, mind you) what kind of job is left for your magical super secret weapons to do?
What does Steven Jones (Dr Cold Fusion) have to say about that?
In fact you can hear what the chief engineer of the Twin Towers, Leslie Robertson says to Steven Jones here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAdcNEa6PTQ
Jones babbles on about “Peer-reviewed” papers saying all manner of crap. These “peer-reviewed” papers appeared in the Journal of 9/11 Studies.
Noam Chomsky, I am sure you know of him, said the credibility of the Journal of 9/11 studies is on a par with that of the Journal of Intelligent Design Studies. (They even once refused to publish a paper that showed the collapses to be perfectly in accordance with the laws of physics because the editors of the Journal of 9/11 Studies said they were no longer publishing anymore). I am sure you Troofers are wetting your pants laughing at him too.
These “peer-reviewed” papers were written by a scholar of Buddhism and a mechanical engineer. None of them were written by anyone with credentials in the field.
Robertson dismisses Jones’ claim that the Towers should have arrested the fall saying that none of the floors of the Towers were designed to support the WEIGHT of upwards of TEN FLOORS of steel and concrete. So when the Towers began collapsing nothing could arrest their fall.
Jones seems to concede this and then says something ridiculous along the lines of “Ah! But would they have fallen as quickly as they did?”
Ridiculous! The only purpose of the “thermite bombs” was, therefore to make the Towers collapse a bit faster?
You Truthers make yourselves look silly. For your own self-respect don’t you think it worth finding another ridiculous cause? How about one a bit less harmful such as “The Moon Landings were faked!” or “My next door neighbour is a descendent of Christ” or even, as fellow Twoofy Twoofers Davids Icke and Shayler you could go the whole hog and say you are the son of God!
A few points to address here since I’ve been asleep, so forgive me if I ignore the usual character assassinations, rants and non sequiters and focus only on the sunstantive issues.
“I doubt it was his plan to pull off a maneouvre like that”
Well no. And I doubt also that, even if it were, he would be capable of doing it without crashing the plane.
“But if it wasn’t him who do you think it was?”
There is insufficient evidence for anyone to say with certainty. The planes may have been empty and controlled remotely for all I (or you) know.
“That link you gave us showed a small amount of one of the towers getting refitted”
Indeed. If explosives were planted I doubt it was done then. I provided the link only in response to Larry’s incorrect assertion that WTC was fully operational throughout the days leading up to 911.
“you are treating it as though it is suspicious when no evidence is found and then suspicious when evidence is found”
Don’t understand this remark. I’m interested in evidence full stop. In my view the holdall evidence is weak without corroboration. There is none. It sounds like planted evidence to me.
“Stephen Jones, a disgraced former professor”
Sacked because he started rocking the boat over 911. Not quite the same as disgraced.
“Who is Aaron Russo?”
He was a reasonably well-known and successful film producer who got befriended by a Rockefeller and spilled the beans when he found out he was about to die from cancer.
“what kind of job is left for your magical super secret weapons to do?”
The issue is what enabled the “collapse” to continue, symmetrically and at free-fall speed, right down to the bottom.
“What does Steven Jones…have to say about that?”
I think he makes the point that the towers do not actually collapse, but that each floor is destroyed in rapid succession and turned into dust. This is why there was so little rubble to speak of, only dust. I think he says that this is most unlikely under normal collapse conditions and that an extra source of energy is required to achieve it.
“Robertson dismisses Jones’ claim that the Towers should have arrested the fall saying that none of the floors of the Towers were designed to support the WEIGHT of upwards of TEN FLOORS of steel and concrete”
This is patent nonsense and I can only think you’ve misquoted him. If it were true the towers would not be able to stand at all. They were about 120 floors high! Robertson is at best being disingenuous. He does not mention that building regulations require that all high-rise buildings have regular reinforced floor sections, for the express purpose of preventing the ‘pancake effect’ in the event of catastrophe. Thats why it never happens, except in the case of controlled demolitions where those reinforced layers are targeted.
It has obviously escaped your notice that I have made no claims one way or the other about thermite and have only responded to a couple of Larry’s silly questions. I’m not wholly convinced by the hypothesis as it happens, but to be fair it is the only one so far that explains the vast pools of molten steel that stayed molten for weeks after the event. Any views on that? Supporters of the official account tend to avoid that evidence like the plague.
Perhaps before you induge in silly rants and insults, you should reflect that your own interpretation of 911 is based solely on two holdalls found at Logan. I suspect even David Icke would be embarrassed to develop an argument based on evidence as flimsy as that.
My own view is that there should be a full public enquiry into the events of 911 at which all the evidence is considered. Given the scale of the event, I find it rather odd that there hasn’t been one already.
“And I doubt also that, even if it were, he would be capable of doing it without crashing the plane.”
Why? What makes you an expert on piloting?
“The planes may have been empty and controlled remotely for all I (or you) know.”
So a guy who’s been trained to pilot a plane would have more difficulty flying it than someone remotely piloting it?
Doesn’t sound plausible and it doesn’t explain what he was doing on the plane in the first place.
“If explosives were planted I doubt it was done then. I provided the link only in response to Larry’s incorrect assertion that WTC was fully operational throughout the days leading up to 911.”
Your link doesn’t do that.
“I’m interested in evidence full stop. In my view the holdall evidence is weak without corroboration. There is none. ”
Do you want Atta to appear and reclaim his luggage? It’s a piece of evidence which corroborates other facts that we know.
“Sacked because he started rocking the boat over 911. Not quite the same as disgraced.”
The professors of structural engineering found his work to be bad and highly speculative. They allowed him paid leave to think it over.
“The BYU physics department has also issued a statement: “The university is aware that Professor Steven Jones’ hypotheses and interpretations of evidence regarding the collapse of World Trade Center buildings are being questioned by a number of scholars and practitioners, including many of BYU’s own faculty members. Professor Jones’ department and college administrators are not convinced that his analyses and hypotheses have been submitted to relevant scientific venues that would ensure rigorous technical peer review.” The College of Engineering and Technology department has also added, “The structural engineering faculty in the Fulton College of Engineering and Technology do not support the hypotheses of Professor Jones.””
So he wasn’t sacked to cover up a monster crime unless you think BYU are in on it or they’ve been leaned on.
“He was a reasonably well-known and successful film producer who got befriended by a Rockefeller”
Next…
“The issue is what enabled the “collapse” to continue, symmetrically and at free-fall speed, right down to the bottom.”
Gravity.
And it WAS NOT at free-fall speed. How do we know? Because the debris from the buildings collapse falls faster than the “collapse front”.
And why wouldn’t it collapse to the bottom?
“I think he makes the point that the towers do not actually collapse, but that each floor is destroyed in rapid succession and turned into dust. This is why there was so little rubble to speak of, only dust. I think he says that this is most unlikely under normal collapse conditions and that an extra source of energy is required to achieve it.”
You are wrong. Watch this video:
http://angrysoba.blogspot.com/2009/12/regarde.html
“This is patent nonsense and I can only think you’ve misquoted him. If it were true the towers would not be able to stand at all. They were about 120 floors high! Robertson is at best being disingenuous. He does not mention that building regulations require that all high-rise buildings have regular reinforced floor sections, for the express purpose of preventing the ‘pancake effect’ in the event of catastrophe. Thats why it never happens, except in the case of controlled demolitions where those reinforced layers are targeted.”
Did you listen to the debate? Les Robertson says that the floors themselves gave way. Did you watch the video? The steel perimeter frame is no longer holding the building up. The top of the building is falling INSIDE it and the floors cannot hold up the WEIGHT of ten to twenty stories!
“I’m not wholly convinced by the hypothesis as it happens, but to be fair it is the only one so far that explains the vast pools of molten steel that stayed molten for weeks after the event. Any views on that?”
Yes, there were no “vast pools of molten steel that stayed molten for weeks after the event”.
“Perhaps before you induge in silly rants and insults, you should reflect that your own interpretation of 911 is based solely on two holdalls found at Logan.”
No it is not! It is based on vast amounts of corroborative evidence. One of those is, despite what you think, the actual flight manifests showing who was aboard. The fact that the CIA and FBI were actually looking into the activities of a number of them etc… etc…
“My own view is that there should be a full public enquiry into the events of 911 at which all the evidence is considered. Given the scale of the event, I find it rather odd that there hasn’t been one already.”
I suppose this is your ultimate retreat. You have no evidence or coherent theory all you’re doing is…
http://angrysoba.blogspot.com/2009/12/just-asking-questions.html
“Why? What makes you an expert on piloting?”
I’m no better a pilot than Hanour. However many pilots have stated that such a manoeuvre would in their view be impossible in a regular 757 travelling at that speed.
“So a guy who’s been trained to pilot a plane would have more difficulty flying it than someone remotely piloting it?”
See above and note words ‘regular 757’
“Doesn’t sound plausible and it doesn’t explain what he was doing on the plane in the first place”.
We don’t know he was. The official flight manifests have never been published, remember?
“Gravity”
The lower reinforced floors, unaffected by fire or impact, should have arrested the fall sooner rather than later.
“And it WAS NOT at free-fall speed”
Not quite, but too close for comfort. All those intervening tons of steel and concrete offered little more resistance than air.
“Did you watch the video”
I’ve watched videos of the collapse countless times. Obviously the floors are not falling inside the building.That would require them to fall at faster than free-fall. In any case the next reinforced layer would arrest any collapse. There was no ‘collapse’. The building clearly ‘burns’ down, like a roman candle, from top to bottom, each floor being converted to dust, which goes upwards and outwards. The weight bearing down on the lower floors is actually diminishing as time goes on.
Yes, there were no “vast pools of molten steel that stayed molten for weeks after the event”.
Oh dear, I know you guys don’t like this evidence but this is the first time I’ve heard it side-stepped with total denial! You can dismiss all the eye-witness reports if you wish and even the on-site photos, but you can’t dismiss the aerial thermal imaging photos I’m afraid.
“It is based on vast amounts of corroborative evidence”
Such as? Do tell…
“the actual flight manifests showing who was aboard”
We’re still waiting to see those. Was there anything else?
“I suppose this is your ultimate retreat”
Eh? I would have thought a full public enquiry is a prerequisite, the very least we could expect and something that everyone could agree on as essential. Surely you’re not suggesting that there shouldn’t be such an enquiry? If you are, could you explain why?
Sorry missed one:
“If explosives were planted I doubt it was done then. I provided the link only in response to Larry’s incorrect assertion that WTC was fully operational throughout the days leading up to 911.”
“Your link doesn’t do that”.
He makes it perfectly clear that on the weekend prior to 911 WTC2’s power supply was down and only support staff, such as himself, were present. The building was swarming workmen, who had not gone through normal automated ID checks owing to the lack of electricity, attending to the recabling.
I think the Antiwar movement is made up of many different groups of people with different ideas. And the Pro wars want to disunite us. So they will tell people like me to hate people like Alex Jones because he is a right wing truther. But at the same time they will tell Alex and the rest of you to hate me, because I am Muslim. And They will probably tell others to hate each and everyone of you for what every you believe in which isn’t shared by the rest of us. They want to do this to make sure we are all too busy hating each other to hate them.
So Larry, go to hell, and take all your NeoCons, Zionists and Imperialists with you.
Amen
The troll is only time-wasting here anyway.
Well I’m having a bit of fun anyway.
MJ
What does “shrill” mean?
In this context it means grating, rude and unsophisticated, in the manner that the angrylarrys here launch into knee-jerk personal attacks and insults as soon as someone challenges them or their most treasured preconceptions.
I thought it was some sort of new meaning invented by Internet people that everybody here understood but me.
No no, it’s quite an old-fashioned pre-internet term.
Yes I know, it means a high pitched sound.
But I thought you were using it to mean people or a group or an organisation. Do you know like how Larry and Angry call people who disagree with the government truthers. I thought you were using it to mean people who always agree with the government or people who go to blogs to cause problems.
angrysoba – you are wasting your time trying to argue with the troofers on this board using logic. They know what they want to believe and will suspend all belief in order to rationalise their world view. Without it their whole world would collapse. They are like the creationists who argue that God placed fossils into Cretaceous beds.
Not necessarily. The high-pitched sound is nearest in meaning, really. Abrasive and vaguely offensive but at the same time rather feeble.
Thst’s right eddie, we just don’t buy dem holdalls. Just imagine how your world would collapse if you didn’t either!
“I’m no better a pilot than Hanour. However many pilots have stated that such a manoeuvre would in their view be impossible in a regular 757 travelling at that speed.”
Well it clearly wasn’t impossible and you do not have a commercial pilots license. Hani Hanjour did. He didn’t need to be able to take off or land a 757 and his English wasn’t very good (which is necessary for speaking to ATC and without which you may not be permitted to fly).
“See above and note words ‘regular 757′”
So in your expert opinion, you believe a 757 of exactly the same size and appearance as a “regular 757” with American Airlines markings and with plane parts that exactly match those of a 757 was flown by remote control into the Pentagon because you and David Ray Grifter…er Griffin are personally incredulous that Hani Hanjour could fly a plane. So what was different about this 757 then? Was it sprinkled with pixie dust?
“We don’t know he was. The official flight manifests have never been published, remember?”
Yes they have.
http://www.911myths.com/html/official_manifests.html
“The lower reinforced floors, unaffected by fire or impact, should have arrested the fall sooner rather than later.”
Les Robertson, one of the chief engineers of the World Trade Centre, disagrees. What are your credentials, MJ? What value is your bloke-in-a-pub commentary? What are retired theology professor David Ray Grifter’s qualifications?
“Not quite, but too close for comfort. All those intervening tons of steel and concrete offered little more resistance than air.”
So you’re willfully misrepresenting the facts? Well, there’s a surprise, a lying Truther.
Again, your “opinion” and your lies clash with the opinion of those who know what they are talking about.
“I’ve watched videos of the collapse countless times. Obviously the floors are not falling inside the building.That would require them to fall at faster than free-fall. In any case the next reinforced layer would arrest any collapse.”
More bullshit. Watch the video I’ve linked to. Explain how that steel giving way under the weight of the stories above is in fact super duper loopy thermite…
Were there explosives or not?
If there were, where are the sounds of them? If not what supersubstance exactly managed to replicate a building falling collapsing under its own weight following structural collapse?
Is this more pixie dust, MJ?
“There was no ‘collapse’. The building clearly ‘burns’ down, like a roman candle…”
Holy mama! I demand to know which Truther first came up with the “roman candle” analogy because you aren’t the first.
“Oh dear, I know you guys don’t like this evidence but this is the first time I’ve heard it side-stepped with total denial! You can dismiss all the eye-witness reports if you wish and even the on-site photos, but you can’t dismiss the aerial thermal imaging photos I’m afraid.”
There are no pictures of pools of molten steel!
The thermal imaging shows high temperatures within the rubble but not the temperature of molten steel. Not. Even. Close. They are temperatures consistent with fires of burning debris such as burning cars (petrol-filled cars) or burning office materials, jet fuel etc…
“Such as? Do tell…”
DNA evidence. Body parts. The fact that the hijackers have never been seen again. The fact that they appear in videos at the airport. The fact that they were known by the FBI and the CIA as suspicious and had phone calls traced by them to other cells. The fact that two of them appeared in martyr videos in Afghanistan. You think the fact that their flight manuals were found in a hold-all and further implicating them DISCOUNTS all this when in the real world it BOLSTERS it. Do you actually deny that these guys took flying lessons? If you do then it undermines your argument that Hani Hanjour was a bad pilot, you moron!
“We’re still waiting to see those [flight manifests]. Was there anything else?”
I’ve shown you those flight manifests a number of times. You simply maintain they are fake and yet think that the CNN VICTIM list with added biographical details are the REAL flight manifests. Why do you think that? Because senile old duffer David Ray Grifter says they are yet his “scholarship” has been shown to be abysmal time and time again.
“Eh? I would have thought a full public enquiry is a prerequisite, the very least we could expect and something that everyone could agree on as essential. Surely you’re not suggesting that there shouldn’t be such an enquiry? If you are, could you explain why?”
9/11 has been investigated on many levels. There are disputes among some politicians about whether or not some people’s incompetence or other failings have been covered up. John Farmer, for example, is not happy about certain things. But John Farmer is not a Truther. David Ray Grifter has been babbling about how Farmer is shilling for the “official story” (a Truther concept).
MJ, a Truther is not the same as a skeptic. A skeptic does ask questions of the government but a Truther isn’t interested in doing real research. I’ll bet you haven’t read the 9/11 Commission Report (maybe you’ve read Grifter’s interpretation of it and added to his royalties, allowing him to continue to profit handsomely from this attack and pretend he’s doing it for “the families”). You call it a false flag attack and have implicated a number of people already.
You’re just one of the louder voices in the moron chorus.
“angrysoba – you are wasting your time trying to argue with the troofers on this board using logic. They know what they want to believe and will suspend all belief in order to rationalise their world view. Without it their whole world would collapse. They are like the creationists who argue that God placed fossils into Cretaceous beds.”
Yeah, that’s true. MJ’s very brain is fossilized and it is only capable of believing what he clearly thinks is very, very radical and original but like all other Truthers its very boring and predictable and completely immune to logic.
“you do not have a commercial pilots license. Hani Hanjour did”.
Yet he could barely handle a Cessna.
“He didn’t need to be able to take off or land a 757”
And indeed couldn’t.
“you believe a 757 of exactly the same size and appearance as a “regular 757″ with American Airlines markings and with plane parts that exactly match those of a 757 was flown by remote control into the Pentagon”
Not necessarily; it’s just that on the basis of the scanty evidence available it could have been. While many eyewitnesses reported seeing the AA livery there was insufficient debris to determine that it was ‘exactly the same size and appearance’. And the one engine that was found was not a Pratt and Witney, as it should have been.
“Yes they have”.
You and your favourite website are missing the point here. The FBI published a set of passenger lists in 2006 but they were not the official manifests, which remain unpublished. This may or may not be a significant distinction; we’d need to see the official manifests to find out.
“Les Robertson, one of the chief engineers of the World Trade Centre, disagrees. What are your credentials”
He omits to mention that building regulations require strengthened layers at regular intervals. I don’t need to be an engineer to remind him of the law.
“Watch the video I’ve linked to”.
I’ve seen the videos. It is true that at the start of the collapse the building gives way along the faultline of the impact and fires. It is also true that, in the case of WTC1, the TV mast, attached to the central core, starts to sink even before that.
If there were [explosives], where are the sounds of them?
Thermite is not an explosive. It simply cuts through steel once ignited. It makes very little sound – a bit of hissing.
“So you’re willfully misrepresenting the facts?”
Not sure what you’re referring to here. An accusation without an object. Please clarify.
“They are temperatures consistent with fires of burning debris such as burning cars (petrol-filled cars) or burning office materials, jet fuel etc…”
This is just plain silly. I’m talking about weeks, months after the event, long after your little fires had gone out. And yes in the early days the temps were consistent with molten steel, corrobarated by many eyewitness reports from workmen at Ground Zero.
“DNA evidence. Body parts”
How do these tell us who was responsible?
“The fact that they appear in videos at the airport”
Everyone at the airport will have appeared in videos! Why are the alleged hijackers picked out? Because of the holdalls!
“The fact that two of them appeared in martyr videos in Afghanistan”
The provenance of those videos has always been rather dubious.
“Do you actually deny that these guys took flying lessons?”
No. Only that the evidence linking them with 911 is tenuous at best.
“I’ve shown you those flight manifests”
See above. You are really missing the point here. Lists published by FBI not official manifests. Official manifests never published: get it now?
“9/11 has been investigated on many levels”.
Except the most basic and important one: a full forensic analysis of the events themselves, as the police would routinely do after any major crime.
“I’ll bet you haven’t read the 9/11 Commission Report”
I downloaded it the very day it became available and read it immediately. Its basic flaw is that it is teleological; it presupposes the very things it should be attempting to investigate.
You’re being an idiot.
You’re trying to argue every which way to obscure the fact you have no coherent point.
You say the manifests don’t show Hani Hanjour on the plane but when I say he was seen on the videos checking in you say it doesn’t prove he was a hijacker.
Which one is it? You won’t say.
The manifests do show he was on the plane. You say you don’t believe they are real. Has AA or United disputed them?
No, I guess they were in on it then…
You say it may have been a plane looking exactly like a 757 but not really one. And it may have been flown by remote control.
Look at this website. It was made by a Truther. I suppose you think this guy is in on it too:
http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/noplane/parts.html
“Thermite is not an explosive. It simply cuts through steel once ignited. It makes very little sound – a bit of hissing.”
You’ve actually said something correct for once. Congratulations!
Thermite is NOT an explosive and it is NOT used in controlled demolitions. It is used to cut through beams, as in the clean up operation after 9/11 when workers on the site had to use thermal lances to cut through the steel beams still remaining.
Thermite acts very slowly and is difficult to direct. So it would be an absolutely stupid material to try and demolish a building with at “FREEFALL SPEED”. So Thermite cannot possibly have been the thing that brought down the WTC TWIN TOWERS.
“Not sure what you’re referring to here. An accusation without an object. Please clarify.”
You misrepresent the facts by saying the Twin Towers collapsed at freefall speed. They DID NOT.
I said that you are a liar because you persist in using this lie.
“This is just plain silly. I’m talking about weeks, months after the event, long after your little fires had gone out. And yes in the early days the temps were consistent with molten steel”
Show me this thermal imaging photography that depicts fires at the temperature of molten steel. Show me just one!
You won’t because they don’t exist and because you are a liar!
If you think thermite explains fires under the WTC WEEKS after the collapse then explain how it is that it continued to react for such a long time. What you are saying is like saying that a matchstick head will continue igniting for weeks. It doesn’t behave like that.
The fires came from the initial impacts and from the jet fuel which spilled down the elevator shafts and began buring things in the basements. We also KNOW because the video I showed you demonstrated that there were fires from the impact zones in the towers.
“How do these tell us who was responsible?”
Moron! They tell us who was on the plane. Guess what? Some of those guys knew guys who also trained in flight schools who also hijacked planes that same day and flew them into buildings.
Put it all together, moron!
“Everyone at the airport will have appeared in videos! Why are the alleged hijackers picked out?”
See above, moron!
” You are really missing the point here. Lists published by FBI not official manifests. Official manifests never published: get it now? ”
Official manifests released, dickhead!
“Except the most basic and important one: a full forensic analysis of the events themselves, as the police would routinely do after any major crime.”
I hope for humanity’s sake you are sterile. It would be the height of cruelty for anyone to be born with your genes.
“You say the manifests don’t show Hani Hanjour on the plane”
Pay attention. I said the official manifests have not been released.
“when I say he was seen on the videos checking in”
The only video released by an airport or the FBI is of Atta at Portland. There were no cameras at Logan. There were cameras at Dulles, but no videos have been released either by the airport or the FBI. The video alleged showing Hanour is not airport video. It was released privately and its origins are unverifiable. It’s generally thought to be dodgy evidence and both the airport and the FBI have refused to endorse it.
“Has AA or United disputed them?”
They have not released them.
“it is NOT used in controlled demolitions”
It is used occasionally in demolitions, when it is necessary to bring down a tall building precisely into its own footprint in order to protect adjacent buildings. These occasions are rare and only a few companies have the expertise to do it.
“Thermite acts very slowly and is difficult to direct”
It acts astnishingly quickly and, applied skilfully, can be directed very precisely. Like a knife through butter.
“an absolutely stupid material to try and demolish a building”
Unless in expert hands, yes. As I said howwever there are a handful of companies that can and do use it for this purpose.
“You misrepresent the facts by saying the Twin Towers collapsed at freefall speed. They DID NOT.”
WTC7 collapsed in 6.1 seconds as against 6.0 seconds freefall. The twin towers were only a second or so short of freefall speed. As I said, it’s too close for comfort.
“Show me this thermal imaging photography that depicts fires at the temperature of molten steel. Show me just one”
These may be of interest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KglmMbprfkw&
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCdRA09pztM&
“explain how it is that it continued to react for such a long time”
You’re missing the point here. The suggestion is that thermite was used to melt the underground steel foundations and that the rubble and dust then insulated the molten steel, rather as molten lava stays molten below ground. No need for any ongoing reaction. Thermite is the prime suspect because there is little else that could get the steel to this temperature in the first place (and certainly not kerosene).
“jet fuel which spilled down the elevator shafts and began buring things in the basements”
One of the main problems with that little theory is that there were no elevator shafts running from the top right down to the basement. The fuel would have had to alight at the Sky Lobby, then wait for another lift to descend to the basement. The Sky Lobby was still functioning throughout the period in question and there are no reports of fuel coming down one shaft, surging across the Lobby then going down another shaft. In any case most of the kerosene was consumed in the initial fireball and even if some did make it to the basement it would not burn hot enough to make any impression on the foundations
“They tell us who was on the plane”
DNA is claimed to have been recovered only in the case of AA77. The Pentagon claims it recovered body parts from everyone on board and used these for DNA identification. There are doubts over the veraity of this claim. For instance, in circumstances such as this the body parts are usually returned to the family for burial. Yet there have been no funerals for any of the passengers from AA77. Even so, I’m still not clear how DNA would identify the hijackers. It could at best identify only who was on board, surely?
“Official manifests released”
Link please (not the FBI lists, the official manifests)
“thermite was used to melt the underground steel foundations” – but the towers collapsed from above downwards, from just below the points of impact, they did not collapse from the base upwards, as any fule kno.
(Whoops, getting involved in a pointless argument)
hello eddie, good to hear from you again, you logician extraordinaire! To bring down a building of WTC’s size, strength and complexity you need to target all the reinforced sections, including the foundations. Otherwise the central steel core would have remained standing, as the floors fell down.
sorry you think it’s a pointless argument; I think it’s a good one.
yes a bit like trainspotting, ultimately pointless. The whole building was reinforced. The buildings collapsed downwards from the points of impact as anyone can see. It would have required an incredibly sophisticated piece of engineering to weaken the buildings sufficiently to allow its collapse but to prevent any visible shearing below the points of impact and the fact that no one would be able to anticipate the level of structral damage caused by the aircraft above means that your thesis is without any credibility whatsoever.
“”Official manifests released”
Link please (not the FBI lists, the official manifests)”
You have to download them here. But of course you can always claim they were faked.
I wrote out a lot more but Craig Murray is keeping it because it included too many links, apparently.
Scroll down and download those J-pegs.
http://www.911myths.com/html/the_passengers.html
Oh sod it!
” Yet there have been no funerals for any of the passengers from AA77.”
Rubbish!
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-78278130.html
“One of the main problems with that little theory is that there were no elevator shafts running from the top right down to the basement. ”
Yes there were.