Having complained of people posting off topic, it seems a reasonable solution to give an opportunity for people to discuss the topics I am banning from other threads – of which 9/11 seems the most popular.
I do not believe that the US government, or any of its agencies, were responsible for 9/11. It would just need too many people to be involved. Someone would have objected. There are some strange and dangerous people in America, but not in sufficient concentration for this one. They couldn’t even keep Watergate quiet, and that was a small group. Any group I can think of – even Blackwater – would contain operatives with scruples about blowing up New York. They may be sadly ready to kill people in poor countries, but Americans en masse? Somebody would say it wasn’t a good idea.
I asked a friend in the construction industry what it would take to demolish the twin towers. He replied nine months, 80 men, and 12 miles of cabling. The notion that a small team at night could plant sufficient explosives embedded at key points, is laughable.
The forces of the aircraft impacts must have been amazingly high. I have no difficulty imagining they would bring down the building. As for WTC 7, again the kinetic energy of the collapse of the twin towers must be immense.
I admit to a private speculation about WTC7. Unfortunately in construction it is extremely common for contractors not to fix or install properly all the expensive girders, ties and rebar that are supposed to be enclosed in the concrete. Supervising contractors and municipal inspectors can be corrupt. I recall vividly that in London some years ago a tragedy occurred when a simple gas oven explosion brought down the whole side of a tower block.
The inquiry found that the building contractor had simply omitted the ties that bound the girders at the corners, all encased in concrete. If a gas oven had not blown up, nobody would have found out. Buildings I strongly suspect are very often not as strong as they are supposed to be, with contractors skimping on apparently redundant protection. The sort of sordid thing you might not want too deeply investigated in the event of a national tragedy.
Precisely what happened at the Pentagon I am less sure. There is not the conclusive film and photographic evidence that there is for New York. I am particularly puzzled by the much more skilled feat of flying that would be required to hit a building virtually at ground level, in an urban area, after a lamppost clipping route – very hard to see how a non-professional pilot did that. But I can think of a number of possible scenarios where the official explanation is not quite the whole truth on the Pentagon, but which do not necessitate a belief that the US government or Dick Cheney was behind the attack.
In my view the real scandal of 9/11 was that it was blowback – the product of a malignant terrorist agency whose origins lay in CIA funding and provision. Also blowback in a more general sense that it was spawned in the nasty theocratic dictatorship of Saudi Arabia which is so close to the US and to the Bush dynasty in particular. As with almost all terrorist activity, I do not rule out any point on the whole spectrum of surveillance, penetration and agent provocateur activity by any number of possible actors.
But was 9/11 false flag and controlled demolition? No, I think not.
(Now I have given full opportunity to discuss 9/11 here, any further references on other threads will be instantly deleted).
Larry,
As I thought – silence and emotional crap.
FDNY have suffered lung and other problems, what do you care – have you represented any for compensation? again yes/no is all I need
“And you’ve come nowhere near answering my post on inertia (January 28, 2010 11:05PM),
apart from bringing up some utter silliness about bowling balls and paper.”
That’s because you don’t even know what you are talking about.
Now, you say that engineers and physicists are too scared to lose their day jobs by writing a paper on how the twin towers came down (they might get leaned on). Yet, someone like you who is much braver than those pussies and also has the requisite knowledge about physics still won’t publish a paper.
I have to wonder why…
“FDNY have suffered lung and other problems, what do you care – have you represented any for compensation? again yes/no is all I need”
Mark, there are many conspiracy theorists who have implicated the FDNY. Those people, such as Alex Jones, are scum.
“FDNY have suffered lung and other problems, what do you care – have you represented any for compensation? again yes/no is all I need”
it would be a bit difficult for me to represent a member of the FDNY from my current location in the Midwest, wouldn’t it?
are you under the impression that they are not getting the proper legal help?
Hey Larry mate,
“I have friends in the FDNY.” yeh and I’ve got friends in Iraq – wot u done to help your friends Larry eh? Oh chapter 11? Being paid?
Hey Soba… you didn’t answer my post on inertia (apart from to come up with that tripe
about bowling balls) because I don’t know what I’m talking about, eh?
That’s fine – just please refer me to any point in that post which is factually incorrect.
And no weasling with the likes of “It all is! … phhhttt… phhhttt “, please.
Larry,
While you ponder, I’m some place else.
Larry,
I know I was pretty hard on you early this morning (in my time zone), so I want you to know that I’m sincerely sorry about your friend and your aquaintance that you lost on 911.
I had speculated that you might have lost someone that day. I can understand now why this matters so much to you.
I consider your post at January 29, 2010 8:20 PM to be the most serious things you’ve written about 911.
I wish you well.
Mark,
“wot u done to help your friends Larry eh? Oh chapter 11? Being paid?”
Please please tell me what corporate bankruptcy has to do with 911, me posting here, the FDNY, Craig Murray, JFK, the Joooos, anything.
Larry,
911 is a hard thing to argue about – hard on the emotions, I mean, because it was such an extreme event. Ironically, that makes it very EASY to get involved in arguing about it, but (and because) it fires the emotions.
Larry,
you may find it easier to cope with “Truthers” if you consider that their obsession with pushing certain ideas is their reaction to the extremity of that event, too.
I think that us humans don’t really cope with emotional extremity very well. Events like this are (thank goodness) situations that we don’t get much practice with.
Clark: You don’t actually believe the soab when he says
“1. I had one friend and one acquaintance die in the Towers. They found my friend’s head some weeks later in the pile.”
That’s a steaming crock. I’ll stick my neck out here, and say Larry is lying his miserable arse off. Perhaps he could post some reference to any find of detached heads, and the chances of “a mate” of his being found this way are approximating zero.
ok, Larry, I’ll give you a fulsome apology if you prove me wrong. What was the name of this mate of yours? Let’s have one of your legendary rapid responses, and we can look up to see whether his head was indeed found.
Glenn,
you just can’t do that. Think. If it’s true, then what you’re asking is incredibly insensitive. If it’s false, then telling a lie like that is a matter for Larry’s conscience alone – it’ll catch up with him.
Remember Glenn, Larry is in the ‘States – he’s more closely connected to 911 than me – I’m assuming you’re in the UK.
But yes, I do believe him, because the other four points make a lot of sense, too.
The values surrounding 911 are more important than the physics. And my physics is pretty good, it was my best subject.
Jaded:
Ok, we are nearing the end of the game and the shills have been completely overrun by the brills. It has now turned into a rout and the shills have no hope coming back from 6-1 down in the last few minutes. I will soon have to put them out of their misery and blow the final whistle. Nice try though lads. It’s the taking part that counts… 😉
Glenn, I refuse to be offended.
I once made the mistake of telling truthers about my friend, which is why I rarely do it now. They asked for his name, and I made the mistake of telling them his name. They were already convinced that I was a secret agent man, so they went back to confirm that my friend had existed …. in any event, that exchanged left a bad taste in my mouth. And I can’t be sure that those truther assholes did not violate the privacy of my friend’s family.
“and the chances
of “a mate” of his being found this way are approximating zero.”
Remains of individuals were found months after the event.
Strange that human remains were found and one of the hijackers passport, but not the aircraft black boxes
Nikko:
More on the black boxes:
http://911myths.com/index.php/The_Black_Boxes
This sobering exchange brings it back to what is important: people’s lives. Families destroyed by war, whether it be in the USA, Iraq, Palestine, the UK or Israel. We have Larry’s terrible and moving story of his friend’s death, we have Mark Golding’s shocking, gut-wrenching pictures of burned and maimed children in Iraq and this brings back my own memories of the aftermath of Lockerbie, during which I assisted with some of the post-mortems (in the curling-rink), it was horrifying, surreal. Someday, I may write in detail about it, but to be frank, beyond a mention like this, I never have, not even sublimated in my fiction, perhaps because there is a certain respect for the dead and I wouldn’t want to be seen (by myself) to be exploiting them in some way. Whatever our views of who did what, I think it is important that anyone who cares about people all should try and work for peace. This may sound woolly, but as has been proven, it is the most difficult path of all, and is the one which requires oceans of stamina. It does not exclude – and indeed, must include – striving for justice – but not vengeance. Vengeance gets us nowhere.
I was referring to Larry’s post of 1040pm in my last post, of course. Steelback’s irruption is unwarranted and strikes me as being motivated by someone who wants to bring down the site. I have no idea what the link s/he posts is about but the title sounds abhorrent and a kind of poison-trap. I speak as an anti-Zionist, btw.
Larry
talk was of the towers – thanks for confirming that black boxes were not found there
Nikko, the lack of black boxes does not even rise to the level of an anomaly. Did you happen to notice the big fires and the towers falling?
That’s right folks – Craig Murray is officially part of the conspiracy!!!!!
(and I do find it funny that other truthers feel that their trutherism is superior to the trutherism of people like Steelback)
Larry, if human remains can be found then certainly a steel box designed to survive an impact. You need to make your mind up what you believe
Suhayl Saadi,
thank you for the peace you bring.
This has all turned to shit.
Nikko, so what are you saying? That they found the black boxes and then hid them? Why would your Men in Black do this? Why would it be necessary to do this to support the conspiracy?
And Nikko, it really depends on where things were when the fire and collapse happened, doesn’t it?
Goodnight.