Having complained of people posting off topic, it seems a reasonable solution to give an opportunity for people to discuss the topics I am banning from other threads – of which 9/11 seems the most popular.
I do not believe that the US government, or any of its agencies, were responsible for 9/11. It would just need too many people to be involved. Someone would have objected. There are some strange and dangerous people in America, but not in sufficient concentration for this one. They couldn’t even keep Watergate quiet, and that was a small group. Any group I can think of – even Blackwater – would contain operatives with scruples about blowing up New York. They may be sadly ready to kill people in poor countries, but Americans en masse? Somebody would say it wasn’t a good idea.
I asked a friend in the construction industry what it would take to demolish the twin towers. He replied nine months, 80 men, and 12 miles of cabling. The notion that a small team at night could plant sufficient explosives embedded at key points, is laughable.
The forces of the aircraft impacts must have been amazingly high. I have no difficulty imagining they would bring down the building. As for WTC 7, again the kinetic energy of the collapse of the twin towers must be immense.
I admit to a private speculation about WTC7. Unfortunately in construction it is extremely common for contractors not to fix or install properly all the expensive girders, ties and rebar that are supposed to be enclosed in the concrete. Supervising contractors and municipal inspectors can be corrupt. I recall vividly that in London some years ago a tragedy occurred when a simple gas oven explosion brought down the whole side of a tower block.
The inquiry found that the building contractor had simply omitted the ties that bound the girders at the corners, all encased in concrete. If a gas oven had not blown up, nobody would have found out. Buildings I strongly suspect are very often not as strong as they are supposed to be, with contractors skimping on apparently redundant protection. The sort of sordid thing you might not want too deeply investigated in the event of a national tragedy.
Precisely what happened at the Pentagon I am less sure. There is not the conclusive film and photographic evidence that there is for New York. I am particularly puzzled by the much more skilled feat of flying that would be required to hit a building virtually at ground level, in an urban area, after a lamppost clipping route – very hard to see how a non-professional pilot did that. But I can think of a number of possible scenarios where the official explanation is not quite the whole truth on the Pentagon, but which do not necessitate a belief that the US government or Dick Cheney was behind the attack.
In my view the real scandal of 9/11 was that it was blowback – the product of a malignant terrorist agency whose origins lay in CIA funding and provision. Also blowback in a more general sense that it was spawned in the nasty theocratic dictatorship of Saudi Arabia which is so close to the US and to the Bush dynasty in particular. As with almost all terrorist activity, I do not rule out any point on the whole spectrum of surveillance, penetration and agent provocateur activity by any number of possible actors.
But was 9/11 false flag and controlled demolition? No, I think not.
(Now I have given full opportunity to discuss 9/11 here, any further references on other threads will be instantly deleted).
“various Enron tax record documents”
Steelback, you hate Jews; we get that – you’re a hateful person. But are you stupid beyond that? You know that there are copying machines, digital records, email trails, SEC disclosure requirements and all documents to fulfill those requirements etc. etc.
Troofers live in a dream world where a major corporation’s documents are kept in one place.
Mark, read this about your journal:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17288-spoof-paper-accepted-by-peerreviewed-journal.html
fail
After all these years, I still am unable to be certain about this issue of the destruction of the WTC, etc. in 2001.
Unlike Craig, I do not think that any sense of morality or nationalism would have inhibited the Bush Administration from killing Americans; governments have always killed their own people en masse, usually by sending them off to war.
What might weaken the ‘inside job’ argument is the practical difficulty entailed in pulling off such a complex operation – especially from the almost incompetant people who proved unable to control Iraq, who seemed at sea with New Orleans and who botched Afghanistan (in their own terms, I mean).
However, the statement that ‘surely someone would have blown the whistle’ among the many who would have to have been involved, the answer of course is that many have done exactly that – the FBI agent told to pull away from an investigation; some of the people told not to fly, etc., etc. – and there seem to have been many of these types of people from within the engine of the US state not normally given to wild theorising who have expressed their uneasiness, not to mention more recently some of the actual investigatory commission members. The problem is, each person was responsible for only a small part of whatever might have been the rubric and so can tell us only about their part; they don’t know the big picture (if indeed there is one).
And so, my view is that it’s best to keep an open mind, not to allow either fantastical hypothesising or rigid denial to possess one but to remain deeply skeptical of the official narrative (and of official narratives in general).
It seems to me to be best to focus on the fact that wars have been launched by the USA in recent years on a number of countries in the world, particularly in the Middle East and Central Asia and that these wars have resulted in the deaths of at least hundreds of thousands, possibly more, men, women and children and continue to result in a daily resume of death and misery, to the enrichment of those who profit from violent death, to the generation of further conflict (history shows us that one war tends to lead to another) and to the continued destabilisation of the world. This demonstrates the true measure of the amorality at work and this is the the machine which needs to be opposed.
Tim Groves: Good work!
Larry & Soba: Not seen that really strong evidence you were claiming about yet, which finally proved everything, but nobody saw it because the blog moved on. Rather than scratching about looking for them, would you mind just cut&pasting the best of them here?
Thanks!
Glenn,
What evidence were you looking for?
Didn’t you just repeat a bunch of questions? Was there something specific that you needed?
One more thing – look at this picture of the ValuJet crash – WHERE IS THE PLANE! OH NO! CONSPIRACY!
http://www.cnn.com/EVENTS/1996/year.in.review/us/valujet/valujet.html
These Shin Bet budgerigars have been at the Trill again.
angri,Larry the simpleton,techniprick et al-these saddoes were wittering on till 3 a.m. yesterday morning.
The references to their enemies as “Troofers” is quite characteristic of the level of degeneracy they seem to think passes for debate.
The fact that these guys can’t spell the word,”truth” is clearly down to their being utter strangers to it.
Mark, about thermite:
As I asked above, where’s the splatter or drip pattern on any of the columns?
You seem to want to ignore my question. It’s a real problem for people who are still arguing for thermite after all these years.
You’re an engineer pushing this claim – why can’t you just answer the simple questions of a non-engineer?
Hello. And Bye.
I’ll give you a reply once in a why Larry. You deserve that, since you try so hard. So maybe you could try to answer to this (you have several days before my next reply to you, so make it a good one!) That plane you reference (about a third the size of a standard jumbo) crashed into a freaking swamp. A swamp is likely to sink and cover up crashes a heck of a lot better than ordinary terrain. Or a pristine lawn outside a well monitored government building, and let’s not even get started on how engines off a jumbo don’t even scratch the glass of windows they’ve supposedly bounced off, on Magic Arab Day, before vapourising completely. Yet the delicate nose-cone smashes through several levels of reinforced iron and concrete before, err, vapourising entirely itself.
It’s actually a struggle to think which part of your “magic Arab day” hypothesis is the more ludicrous. So help you out here. Which part of the whole thing did you find the hardest to swallow? That buildings should collapse most improbably? That hijackers find their victims so obliging, they just call in “goodbye” messages? That they are flying aces? That they were the luckiest guys on Earth, just happening to do their stunts the _very day_ air defences are being all half-arsed, given it’s a demo day and… Jeez… when does one stop?
(Answer – as a True Believer – absolutely nothing the government said is in the slightest way odd! As a Good German, I believe my government about everything, particularly if it is important for them that you do so.)
*
I must say, Angrysoba/larry – you cover yourself in much glory, how many other people would go to real lengths, stick their neck out, post night and day to support their government from a bunch of total, stupid, tin-foil drooling “loons” who might suggest some silly notion other than the Official Story?
Glenn, you’re still doing your usual thing of trying to ridicule basic facts by claiming an “Official Story” in which there were these “Magic Arabs”.
Nonsense. You don’t need to be magic to fly a plane. It is silly to say that an ability to fly a plane is magic when an Arab does it. Silly and racist.
On the other hand you do say that an unkown substance that may as well be pixie dust allowed the buildings to be demolished in a controlled demolition unknown to anyone in which there were silent noisy explosions.
So which is the most likely?
It’s been over 6 hours without a post from angrylarry. Does anyone think he just keeled over stone dead or something? I am genuinely worried for him.
Angrysoba,
Here’s a sad equivalent of Glenn:
http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1506
“Mike Adams, editor of Natural News, is, in my opinion, a dangerous conspiracy-mongering crank. There is simply no way to be kind to his views and the nonsense he spreads on his website. His intellectual sloppiness is indistinguishable from dishonesty, as he peddles dubious cancer cures, pseudoscience such as homeopathy, and attacks vaccines and effective therapies for AIDS and other serious diseases.”
I know someone who is a big fan of Mike Adams at Natural News. Perhaps unsurprisingly this fan is a Truther.
I spoke to soon… 🙁
Just to jump on the same bandwagon as “nobody” and “Sabretache” I made my own post:
http://angrysoba.blogspot.com/2010/01/reality-deniers.html
Larry,
Well, I’ll look into your ‘dripping
colums’ but let’s face it there ‘aint
many columns I can investigate because
you are fully aware, the crime scene was
busted and disposed of.
Some ‘souvenirs’ have been kept I
believe and have been investigated.
Torch cutting was done after the
collapse, further contaminating the
scene, so it is difficult now to
analyse.
Personally I take great exception to Craig Murray’s blatent rigging of this thread to allow Shin Bet budgerigars like angrisober and Larry precedence over real researchers like Steelback.
Mr Murray is wiping Steelback contributions that link to sites that finger the Mishpucka network for 9/11.
Here’s one I found.Read before the censor gets to it.It explains why Larry Silverstein didn’t turn up for his bacon sandwich at the WTC on 9/11.
Now this will make the budgies choke on their sunflower seeds!
http://newsfromthewest.blogspot.com/2009/09/israel-did-9-11-here-is-the-proof.html
Well said,Apostate.
A key Moschpoche figure among the plethora of dual citizen Israelis/Mossad assets involved in 9/11 is this guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Lauder#judaism
His Yiddisher Mama was Estee Lauder but there’s nothing that smells sweet about this guy.
The phrase-form,motive,and means comes to mind.
Tell Craig the budgie cage is in a hell of a mess this morning! angri,Larry et al have regurgitated their Trill again.
You know those pictures of dumb-ass ADL agents posing as al Qaida militants in fake videos.
It’s angri,Larry and the gang-I’m sure of it!
Like Disney did the voice for Mickey Mouse these guys do the voices for Intel Center,the Jewish company out of Alexandria,VA.Intel does the voices for the fake Jihadi videos the corporate media inflicts on us.
Intel’s not a million miles from St Louis…..are you thinking what I am?
Like they make megabucks out of wars,”Holocausts”,now they doing it off the 100% phoney “War on Terror”.
Make up a crock of lies and sell it to the gullible Goy.It’s a bit like Hollywood.
Check out the Intel website:
http://www.intelcenter.com/
You can order the Xmas 2009 Attack Wall Chart now($29.95).This was already out in the run-up to Xmas!Or there’s the Intel World Threat map that lights up every time the Mossad patsey jihadi team strikes somewhere!
Larry’s got both….don’t tell his boss though,guys!
(2 ^ 9) + 1 comments and counting…
Suhayl Saadi,
thank you for your post at January 30, 2010 9:15 PM, which so clearly says so much that I’ve been thinking for years.
Suhayl Saadi,
sorry, that was my comment 10:40 above.
I wonder whether our host will terminate this thread when it becomes inundated with the overwhelming evidence for 911 being a false-flag op.
I’m on the net 24/7 and just hit on this thread.I can’t believe you got people here who still believe the 19 Saudi hijacker beloney.
It’s like coming up against the wall of blind obedience and ignorance behind the medieval mindset.Stunning!
Anyone with a scintilla of perception should have worked out by now that Bologna,Bali,9/11,Madrid,7/7 and Mumbai all bear the indelible imprint of an international terror network bent on forwarding Western geopolitical interests.
In fact the correspondences between 9/11 and 7/7 are glaring.The hired patsies,parallel security exercises,immediate ascription of blame without evidence to jihadi groups,involvement of Israeli front companies,intelligence networks and offshore banks.
The bus bomb at Tavistock Square where Israeli white hire vans appear in all the pictures just like they did on 911 are key clues.
Maybe you guys need to research Tavistock too.I don’t mean the town in N.Devon,I mean the psy-ops clinic.
Welcome to the 21st century!Time to do some of your own research,guys.
Dear Mr Ambassador-please run a thread on 7/7.
Apostate,
Steelback,
Tungsten,
there are ways to express your opinions without seeming anti-Jewish. I can’t understand why you don’t use them, if your concern is for the truth. I followed one of Steelback’s links a few days ago, and found myself at a totally racist site.
Clark,
I’m guessing that those three posters are all the same person.
Their styles and pathological behaviour are remarkably similar.
I would also recommend not clicking any of their links. If anyone is here to cause trouble it’s them/him.
Angrysoba,
my critical facilities are in tact, thankyou. You have no more way of ascertaining if these posts come from one person or three than the people who accuse you of being the same person as Larry.
Apostate
I reckon Larry,angri,technicoloured et al were the Jews caught dancing and filming on 9/11.Chertoff had them returned to the masonic state where all the Moschepoche/sayanim crooks end up.
They went to Intel after blowing their “cover”!
On Juliani and the Rothschild Brit Royalty 9/11 input:
http://ziopedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Giuliani
“You have no more way of ascertaining if these posts come from one person or three than the people who accuse you of being the same person as Larry.”
No, I don’t. But you do, don’t you?
Or maybe Craig does.
Angrysoba,
no, I only have analysis of writing styles and content. What makes you think otherwise?
“where’s the splatter or drip pattern on any of the columns”
There are plenty of pictures/videos of molten steel dripping down the buildings prior to collapse eg here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2I3vRbxMWo
After collapse of course we are somewhat hindered by the fact that the steel was whisked off, cut up and sold before accident investigators could get their hands on it.