Having complained of people posting off topic, it seems a reasonable solution to give an opportunity for people to discuss the topics I am banning from other threads – of which 9/11 seems the most popular.
I do not believe that the US government, or any of its agencies, were responsible for 9/11. It would just need too many people to be involved. Someone would have objected. There are some strange and dangerous people in America, but not in sufficient concentration for this one. They couldn’t even keep Watergate quiet, and that was a small group. Any group I can think of – even Blackwater – would contain operatives with scruples about blowing up New York. They may be sadly ready to kill people in poor countries, but Americans en masse? Somebody would say it wasn’t a good idea.
I asked a friend in the construction industry what it would take to demolish the twin towers. He replied nine months, 80 men, and 12 miles of cabling. The notion that a small team at night could plant sufficient explosives embedded at key points, is laughable.
The forces of the aircraft impacts must have been amazingly high. I have no difficulty imagining they would bring down the building. As for WTC 7, again the kinetic energy of the collapse of the twin towers must be immense.
I admit to a private speculation about WTC7. Unfortunately in construction it is extremely common for contractors not to fix or install properly all the expensive girders, ties and rebar that are supposed to be enclosed in the concrete. Supervising contractors and municipal inspectors can be corrupt. I recall vividly that in London some years ago a tragedy occurred when a simple gas oven explosion brought down the whole side of a tower block.
The inquiry found that the building contractor had simply omitted the ties that bound the girders at the corners, all encased in concrete. If a gas oven had not blown up, nobody would have found out. Buildings I strongly suspect are very often not as strong as they are supposed to be, with contractors skimping on apparently redundant protection. The sort of sordid thing you might not want too deeply investigated in the event of a national tragedy.
Precisely what happened at the Pentagon I am less sure. There is not the conclusive film and photographic evidence that there is for New York. I am particularly puzzled by the much more skilled feat of flying that would be required to hit a building virtually at ground level, in an urban area, after a lamppost clipping route – very hard to see how a non-professional pilot did that. But I can think of a number of possible scenarios where the official explanation is not quite the whole truth on the Pentagon, but which do not necessitate a belief that the US government or Dick Cheney was behind the attack.
In my view the real scandal of 9/11 was that it was blowback – the product of a malignant terrorist agency whose origins lay in CIA funding and provision. Also blowback in a more general sense that it was spawned in the nasty theocratic dictatorship of Saudi Arabia which is so close to the US and to the Bush dynasty in particular. As with almost all terrorist activity, I do not rule out any point on the whole spectrum of surveillance, penetration and agent provocateur activity by any number of possible actors.
But was 9/11 false flag and controlled demolition? No, I think not.
(Now I have given full opportunity to discuss 9/11 here, any further references on other threads will be instantly deleted).
juniper, you take crazy to a whole new level.
Sounds like Larry’s trying to frighten Craig half to death again.The Ziofascist war on the internet is alive and well with Larry,angri and the disinfo. crew.
Happily Craig hasn’t succumbed to their threats yet.
Ziofascism.net is the site to which Larry refers though he obviously can’t bring himself to use the phrase.The site’s host complains that no Canadian politician dare mention 9/11 and Zionism in the same breath for fear of the consequences.
It is further contended that Canada has gone Ziofascist because the ruling class is nothing more than a Shabaz Goi elite that’s succumbed to an Israel First Globalist Agenda.
Now that’s pretty much how it looks in the US and UK as well.
Re-9/11-Larry neglected to mention the part in the Ziofascist piece on the Olympic terror threat referring to the role of the Verint security company whose cameras failed so conspicuously on 7/7.Evidently Verint has secured the contract to run security round Vancouver and Montreal.
Some of us wonder how a company with such an appalling track record on public safety got the contract.
Ziofascism might have had something to do with it:
http:/ziofascism.net/blog/2010/02/israel-first-globalism/
How the BeJeez can Larry think falling back on the idea that 19 Saudis with box-cutters carried out 9/11 is kind of redeeeming feature in his argument?
Looks like they set a trap and you,Larry boy walked slam-dunk into it!
In case you hadn’t noticed my Missouri mucker that Al Ciada is wearing a little thin by now.
http://www.subvertednation.net/al-qaida-attack-certain/
Check out:
http://www.alqaedadoesntexist.com/
Get real,Larry!
“Looks like they set a trap and you,Larry boy walked slam-dunk into it!”
I actually think that Craig Murray set a trap for himself.
And by the way, it’s impossible to walk “slam dunk” into something.
No civilian trials for 911 suspects:
http://blogs.mcclatchydc.com/washington/2010/02/senators-introduce-bill-regarding-civilian-trials-of-911-suspects.html
“No civilian trials for 911 suspects:”
Self-debunked: senators-introduce-bill
Can truthers get anything right?
“Can truthers get anything right?”
The answer is, “no”.
Lamby:
‘And by the way, it’s impossible to walk “slam dunk” into something.’
Not if you are as tall as Osama Bin Laden.
I have read the thread in full and it seems all the evidence points to 9/11 being an inside job. Lamby and angrysoba are both crazy people. No one listen to their insane gibberish.
Then when will all of the non-crazy people in the world start believing you? You certainly haven’t been able to convince even Craig Murray. The antiwar movement hates you people.
They do believe Lamby. Craig is focused on torture and doesn’t want to get involved with this. It’s just you wild crazies that cling on to your insane beliefs…
Jaded, I dare you to show up at an antiwar demonstration with a “911 was an inside job” sign.
Ah, but all the non-crazy people in the world aren’t in the STWC you loon. Now get back to your drugs crazy man. I do not suffer idiots gladly.
“Ah, but all the non-crazy people in the world aren’t in the STWC you loon”
Jaded, according to the grammar of this sentence the STWC is entirely made up of crazy people because the set of all non-crazy people and the set of all members of the STWC does not overlap.
You’ll probably have upset a few people who comment here with that remark.
It also doesn’t preclude the possibility of crazy people not being members of the STWC so whether you are a member or not it doesn’t mean you’re not crazy.
“I do not suffer idiots gladly.”
You must be sick of the sight of yourself.
What kind of person would answer the question, “Do you suffer idiots?” with the response, “I do so gladly.” Except your mother and your carer, I suppose.
Absolute nonsense. I suggest you carefully reread all of that and try to figure out the flaws in your logic. I suspect you have been taking some of Larry’s drugs you big fruitcake. This man is utterly and completely deranged everyone. Don’t listen to a word that spews out of his foaming mouth. As I said, I don’t suffer idiots gladly.
Crab:
“2 skyscrapers, identical, explosive, rapid, symetrical awe and war inspiring demolishment>collapse.”
What? There were no explosives. There were two skyscrapers that came down in a similar fashion because they were both attacked in similar fashion even the type of plane that hit them was the same.
They were domestic flights, yes, but they were flying coast to coast so they carried an awful lot of jet fuel.
This precipitated the collapse itself AT THE POINTS OF IMPACT. The man who probably knows the towers best says that there was no way the towers could have resisted or arrested the collapse. On the other hand, you quote a scholar of Buddhism, a retired theologian and a couple of crappy and debunked mechanical engineers who beg to differ.
Oh, and an architect who seems to have forgotten the use of fireproofing and sprinklers because he doesn’t mention those factors when talking about the collapse of WTC7. And a physics professor that his uni thinks has gone a bit potty who has a long history of attraction to kooky ideas. And an assortment of serial conspiracy theorists, anti-semites and miscellaneous loons.
“Accompanied by penetration of pentagons air defenses and crash into section closed for refurbishment by an unphotographed hijacked passenger jet.”
Could you explain for all of us here wha the Pentagon’s defences were and how they were supposed to thwart a passenger plane’s attempts to ram the building?
Also, the plane was not unphotographed. And was witnessed by numerous people and identified variously as a passenger jet, a 757, an American Airlines jet etc…etc…
“Followed by the rapid symetrical total unexpected yet preannounced collapse of WTC 7”
How was it preannounced and unexpected? In fact, it was expected. The news media were alerted and many reporters announced that it was expected to fall. The FDNY created a collapse zone to prevent people being injured from its collapse. If you don’t believe me then please look at the various videos. I’ve collected a few on my blog (Dec 2009) which you may want to watch.
“Followed by obviously fake OBL video, anthrax attacks…”
I don’t know that the OBL videos were obviously faked. The anthrax story IS strange, I agree with that. But almost no Truther seems interested in it which is ALSO weird.
“Preceeded by the ruling political ideologies PNAC document actualy outlining a desire/requirement for such events.”
Well, now… It doesn’t actually say, “What we really want right now is for some Arab guys to take over planes and ram them into buildings.”
Indeed, he is an offical line ‘twoofer’.
“”Preceeded by the ruling political ideologies PNAC document actualy outlining a desire/requirement for such events.””
The PNAC document is a public document – always has been – and it states no such thing.
What can be stated with certainty is that 9/11 was an inside job. Furthermore, it has been well proven that both Larry and angrysoba are both deluded nutters. No one listen to a word they splutter. They are 9/11 Commission ‘Twoofers’.
“polish bark partnersthe geneva circles pointsfor asphalt consisted spirituals dollars gpms”
This makes more sense that most of the Truthers.
In fact it does sound a little like a list of their suspects.
See everyone, more evidence of this unhinged 911 Commission ‘Twoofer’.
Whilst this thread has turned into a ‘How not to manipulate public opinion’ handbook for would-be disinformation personnel, there has been some sad news.
Eustace Mullins, original seeker of truth, prot?g? of Ezra Pound, author of “Secrets of the Federal Reserve”, “Murder by Injection” and hundreds of other books and articles, died this week at the age of 83.
Rest in piece Eustace. Your work will live on.
Yes, I heard that yesterday. Very sad news.
My,how the level of debate nosedives overnight when the mindless moron from Missouri and his intellectually challenged soulmate begin to twitter!
In his masterpiece on the spectacular level of elite domination now achieved Guy Debord noted that the prime instrument by which such power was established was the elite’s capacity to make history disappear.This was particularly the case with all rational information and commentary on the most recent events.
Masterfully elites organize what is about to happen and,immediately afterwards ,the forgetting of whatever has been understood from it.The most important parts of the event are the most hidden.
Elites can now luxuriate in the knowledge that “henceforth we will live in a world witout memory ,where images chase eachother,like reflections on the water.” Moreover the elite’s power to outlaw history obscures its own history of recent world conquest so that its power seems familiar,as if it has always been there.
With the destruction of history contemporary events retreat into a fabulous distance,among its unverifiable stories,uncheckable statistics and unlikely and untenable reasoning.
DeBord notes finally that those who govern have no lack of false witnesses,though they may be unskilled but what capacity to detect this clumsiness can remain among the spectators who will be the witnesses to the exploits of the false witnesses?..or false documents,which are always highly effective.”
Well,DeBord certainly describes rather presciently the world of hyper-reality and dissimulation we now inhabit.And when he talks about unlikely and untenable reasoning and the clumsiness of false witnesses you just know he had angri,Larry,crab and the disinfo team in mind!
“Eustace Mullins, original seeker of truth, prot?g? of Ezra Pound, author of “Secrets of the Federal Reserve”, “Murder by Injection” and hundreds of other books and articles, died this week at the age of 83. ”
Good!
It’s a shame there’s not a Hell for the fucker to rot in!
“It’s a shame there’s not a Hell for the fucker to rot in!”
You don’t like it when someone speaks truth do you, Angrysoba?
Never mind eh? Eustace’s words will be read by many more people than yours, for a lot longer than yours, and inspire more than yours. So you have yourself a nice little gloat over the fact he’s dead, like the sick fuck you are, and i’ll keep singing his praises.
Got that? Good. Now get fucked.
The Wit and Wisdom of Eustace Mullins is encapsulated in the following extract of his magnum opus “The Biological Jew” (No, seriously, that’s what it is called!):
“One of the specialized modifications of the Jew is his ability to suck the blood of the gentile host without alarming his victim, weakening it without being discovered, through the highly sophisticated and refined instruments and techniques which the Jew has developed over a period of centuries for these specific purposes, and which have no counterpart in any other species. In view of these techniques, need we be surprised that some of the gentiles who have been most weakened by the blood-lettings of the Jew are among his most vociferous defenders, and who will fight to the death to protect their Jewish ?benefactors?. They are totally unable to recognize their danger, or the insidious nature of the parasitic attack.”
So you anti-Semitic pricks go on and sing his praises all you want but don’t be surprised if sane and rational people don’t weep at his passing.
I was wondering how long it was going to take you to start waving the anti-semite flag… You don’t disappoint me Angrysoba. Rather you prove my point.
By the length of your response I’d say you had to go back to your handlers and ask how you respond to my comment.
I can just imagine the conversation!
haha.
The last thing you want, is people reading Eustace Mullins’ work.
Like I said, people do read Mullins’ work, and they come away being better informed than they were before. Unlike with the shit you spout.
Nice try mate.
angry wrote:
“2 skyscrapers, identical, explosive, rapid, symetrical awe and war inspiring demolishment>collapse.”
What? There were no explosives.”
Not hard to parse that i used the word as an adjective there, which is undeniably qualified by the record of the ‘collapses’ where shattered and pulverised concrete and steel was thrown upward as well as outward considerable distances.
A non-explosive collapse indicicates mass simply disintegrating and slipping over edges.
“Could you explain for all of us here wha the Pentagon’s defences were and how they were supposed to thwart a passenger plane’s attempts to ram the building?”
The Pentagon is well known to be one of the most securely defended military complexes in the world.
“Also, the plane was not unphotographed. And was witnessed by numerous people and identified variously as a passenger jet, a 757, an American Airlines jet etc…etc…”
No clear photographs or film of the plane are released. Support your rejection of this basic fact.
–
“Followed by the rapid symetrical total unexpected yet preannounced collapse of WTC 7”
How was it preannounced and unexpected?
It was acidentaly announced about 20 minutes prior to its supposed “structural failure” as having just collapsed, by the BBC and CNN. The BBC News Editor explained it as a “cock-up” on his blog. Quite incredible, just search “BBC Announces WTC7 Collapse before it Happens” for actual footage.
-It happened!
angrysoba wrote:
“I lack judgment when it comes to planning a controlled demolition that would be disguised as a structural collapse of a skyscraper hit by a 767?
Yes, I must admit I do.”
-That was classic noodle, sums up your points nicely 😀
“Like I said, people do read Mullins’ work, and they come away being better informed than they were before. Unlike with the shit you spout.”
The shit I spouted was a direct quote from his work, was it not?