Having complained of people posting off topic, it seems a reasonable solution to give an opportunity for people to discuss the topics I am banning from other threads – of which 9/11 seems the most popular.
I do not believe that the US government, or any of its agencies, were responsible for 9/11. It would just need too many people to be involved. Someone would have objected. There are some strange and dangerous people in America, but not in sufficient concentration for this one. They couldn’t even keep Watergate quiet, and that was a small group. Any group I can think of – even Blackwater – would contain operatives with scruples about blowing up New York. They may be sadly ready to kill people in poor countries, but Americans en masse? Somebody would say it wasn’t a good idea.
I asked a friend in the construction industry what it would take to demolish the twin towers. He replied nine months, 80 men, and 12 miles of cabling. The notion that a small team at night could plant sufficient explosives embedded at key points, is laughable.
The forces of the aircraft impacts must have been amazingly high. I have no difficulty imagining they would bring down the building. As for WTC 7, again the kinetic energy of the collapse of the twin towers must be immense.
I admit to a private speculation about WTC7. Unfortunately in construction it is extremely common for contractors not to fix or install properly all the expensive girders, ties and rebar that are supposed to be enclosed in the concrete. Supervising contractors and municipal inspectors can be corrupt. I recall vividly that in London some years ago a tragedy occurred when a simple gas oven explosion brought down the whole side of a tower block.
The inquiry found that the building contractor had simply omitted the ties that bound the girders at the corners, all encased in concrete. If a gas oven had not blown up, nobody would have found out. Buildings I strongly suspect are very often not as strong as they are supposed to be, with contractors skimping on apparently redundant protection. The sort of sordid thing you might not want too deeply investigated in the event of a national tragedy.
Precisely what happened at the Pentagon I am less sure. There is not the conclusive film and photographic evidence that there is for New York. I am particularly puzzled by the much more skilled feat of flying that would be required to hit a building virtually at ground level, in an urban area, after a lamppost clipping route – very hard to see how a non-professional pilot did that. But I can think of a number of possible scenarios where the official explanation is not quite the whole truth on the Pentagon, but which do not necessitate a belief that the US government or Dick Cheney was behind the attack.
In my view the real scandal of 9/11 was that it was blowback – the product of a malignant terrorist agency whose origins lay in CIA funding and provision. Also blowback in a more general sense that it was spawned in the nasty theocratic dictatorship of Saudi Arabia which is so close to the US and to the Bush dynasty in particular. As with almost all terrorist activity, I do not rule out any point on the whole spectrum of surveillance, penetration and agent provocateur activity by any number of possible actors.
But was 9/11 false flag and controlled demolition? No, I think not.
(Now I have given full opportunity to discuss 9/11 here, any further references on other threads will be instantly deleted).
Crab:”Not hard to parse that i used the word as an adjective there”
Crab, don’t give me that nonsense. You believe there were explosives, don’t you. Don’t pretend that just because you were using the term as an adjective this time means you aren’t saying there were explosives. You believe there were explosives.
Yes or no?
“The last thing you want, is people reading Eustace Mullins’ work.”
Looks like an interesting character. I couldnt find any work online to read. His old website has been removed from the wayback machine by a stupid holding page for the url. grrr
“The Pentagon is well known to be one of the most securely defended military complexes in the world.”
Explain what you mean!
There were no tanks parked outside it. I saw no troops. Most picture of it show no weapons.
How was it “securely defended”?
Crab: “Looks like an interesting character.”
No! looks like a rabid Jew-hater.
Crab: “I couldnt find any work online to read.”
Here’s his “work”:
http://www.rebelnews.org/downloads/The_Biological_Jew.pdf
“No clear photographs or film of the plane are released. Support your rejection of this basic fact.”
I will support what I said which is that there were photographs of the plane and also eye-witness testimony.
Look at this website.
http://www.flight77.info/
Crab, if you want to read Mullins, Start with “Secrets of the Federal Reserve”, written in 1952 after two years research in the library of congress. If it wasn’t for Mullins, nobody would know how the Federal Reserve came about. Bankers that were there at the crash of ’29 later commented to him, “I was there and I didn’t know what caused it until I read your book”.
Just search for the title and include pdf in your google search and it will pop up somewhere. plenty of people sharing…
“It was acidentaly announced about 20 minutes prior to its supposed “structural failure” as having just collapsed, by the BBC and CNN. The BBC News Editor explained it as a “cock-up” on his blog. Quite incredible, just search “BBC Announces WTC7 Collapse before it Happens” for actual footage.
-It happened!”
I KNOW, I KNOW, I KNOW that BBC announced its collapse before it happened. My point was that its IMMINENT collapse was reported by the New York Fire Department BEFORE it collapsed and some of the media got themselves mixed up and reported it had already collapsed!
“angrysoba wrote:
“I lack judgment when it comes to planning a controlled demolition that would be disguised as a structural collapse of a skyscraper hit by a 767?
Yes, I must admit I do.”
-That was classic noodle, sums up your points nicely :D”
No…In typical Truther fashion you cut up my sentence to make it one that served your purpose. All of your eyewitness tesimony does this. Manipulating people and ripping their words from context to serve your own agenda. It is dishonest, of course, but by now not surprising to see Truthers do this.
youve gone of your rails soba:
“Look at this website.
http://www.flight77.info/”
Weird site, some videos of a flash,
mentions of video released in 2006
and an unattributed still of a plane.
soba wrote:
How was it preannounced and unexpected?
-then-
I KNOW, I KNOW, I KNOW that BBC announced its collapse before it happened.
Just think, at least a little bit, before embarrassing yourself anymore. Turn over a new leaf man.
thanks Edo:
Crab, if you want to read Mullins, Start with “Secrets of the Federal Reserve”, written in 1952 after two years research in the library of congress….
Just search for the title and include pdf in your google search and it will pop up somewhere. plenty of people sharing…
“soba wrote:
How was it preannounced and unexpected?
-then-
I KNOW, I KNOW, I KNOW that BBC announced its collapse before it happened.”
Because it was pre-announced AND expected! (Or, if this makes it clearer to you, pre-announced BECAUSE it was expected!)
That’s why!
soba:
No…In typical Truther fashion you cut up my sentence to make it one that served your purpose.
Stop kidding on, that was naked quote of yours ‘no cutting’ up involved.
Oh, and Crab, of you really are going to read that junk of Eustace Mullins then you’re more of a fruitloop than I thought. (I actually thought you were one of the nice Truthers).
Yeah Crab! Don’t read it! Don’t! Don’t even turn the first page!!!
Oh AngrySoba… you do make me smile.
“Stop kidding on, that was naked quote of yours ‘no cutting’ up involved.”
Actually, yes you’re right and I apologize.
I do think, however, that it lost its obvious irony when you quoted it back at me, but whatever.
You still have a lot of questons to answer, sonny jim!
soba:
“Because it was pre-announced AND expected! (Or, if this makes it clearer to you, pre-announced BECAUSE it was expected!)
That’s why!”
Expectations are many and easily reported. As a ‘spontaneous structural failure’ investigated at length yet unmodelable by the fema report, it wasnt ever technicaly expected.
The ‘firefighters told us it was probablymaybe going to happen and we misheard them’ excuse, is incredible.
Edo, I make you smile?
Well, this quote of Mullins, from the Biological Jew makes me vomit:
“Nazism is simply this ?” a proposal that the German people rid themselves of the parasitic Jews. The gentile host dared to protest against the continued presence of the parasite, and attempted to throw it off”
Do you agree or disagree with this statement?
“The ‘firefighters told us it was probablymaybe going to happen and we misheard them’ excuse, is incredible.”
Why?
The firefighters said it was certainly going to happen. They moved people out of the area and talked of its collapse.
Reuters reported it HAD collapsed and other news media which may not have known which building they were talking about (it wasn’t famous then!) read the report and repeated it.
Also, watch the videos here:
http://angrysoba.blogspot.com/2009/12/damage-to-wtc7.html
“Nazism is simply this ?” a proposal that the German people rid themselves of the parasitic Jews. The gentile host dared to protest against the continued presence of the parasite, and attempted to throw it off”
Can’t say really. I’ve often wondered what the point of Nazism was.
I do know, that my mention of Eustace Mullin’s passing has turned this thread into a anti-semitic free for all, with you flinging all the shit. And, seeing as this tactic is frequently employed by people who have interests to protect, or paychecks to collect, I’m not surprised you think that by asking me to comment on one (or two) lines from one book out of dozens is just a tad obvious.
Are you asking me if I’m anti-semitic?
Do you even know how the use of that statement has changed over the last 100 years?
Fill your boots Angrysoba, and in the mean time, I may catch up on some of Eustace’s other excellent books, “Murder by Injection” or “Curse of Canaan”…. tally-ho
“Can’t say really. I’ve often wondered what the point of Nazism was.”
So you can’t really say whether you agree with the statement or not?
Is that because it would be impolitic of you to agree and too much of a humiliating climbdown to disagree?
“I do know, that my mention of Eustace Mullin’s passing has turned this thread into a anti-semitic free for all”
No. Your mention of an anti-semitic writer has resulted in people questioning your reasons to mourn him. You haven’t distanced yourself from any of his bigotted comments but pretended that anyone who objected to them is some kind of paid off shill.
“Are you asking me if I’m anti-semitic?”
No, but if the jackboot fits…
“Fill your boots Angrysoba, and in the mean time, I may catch up on some of Eustace’s other excellent books, “Murder by Injection” or “Curse of Canaan”…. tally-ho”
I’m sure it’s highly edifying reading.
http://i49.tinypic.com/1zqvnua.jpg
says it all really. Good day to one and all.
Crab:
Please also watch these videos, particularly the last one with Ashleigh Banfield.
It is as clear as anything that the reporters were expecting WTC7 to collapse:
http://angrysoba.blogspot.com/2009/12/wtc7-collapse-not-controlled-demolition.html
Multa novit vulpes, verum echinus unum magnum.
No Vronsky. Your silliness isn’t any less silly just because you quote something in Latin.
However, I will respect you a little more if you can explain how the towers were brought down by controlled demolition… in Latin.
http://i49.tinypic.com/1zqvnua.jpg
– That was cool Edo
Soba – misrepresentative and unjudicious – here is my confesion: I cant be arsed to espond to any more of your challenges (such as establishing the defensive capabilities of pentagon!). If you managed to cling onto a point of order or two, eg a blurred picture of flight77 etc. then fair play to you.
But your arguments have been almost entirely based on miscomprehension and mispresentation, even somehow unabashedly self acknowledged as such.
You owe it to your own reputation to +self moderate+ and reduce the quantity of your follysome inputs. I have also failed in that regard by over engaging with them. We can but learn. Our positions are overstated. Peace be with you.
Angrysoba,
I gotta admit that that’s a mighty cool pie chart. We’ll have to tell Section K that we need that application.
Urbs antiqua fuit, Tyrii tenuere coloni,
Karthago, Italiam contra Tiberinaque longe ostia, dives opum studiisque asperrima belli;
quam Iuno fertur terris magis omnibus unam posthabita coluisse Samo; hic illius arma,
hic currus fuit; hoc regnum dea gentibus esse,
si qua fata sinant, iam tum tenditque fovetque.
Progeniem sed enim Troiano a sanguine duci audierat, Tyrias olim quae verteret arces;
hinc populum late regem belloque superbum venturum excidio Libyae: sic volvere Parcas.
Id metuens, veterisque memor Saturnia belli,
prima quod ad Troiam pro caris gesserat Argis?”
necdum etiam causae irarum saevique dolores exciderant animo: manet alta mente repostum
iudicium Paridis spretaeque iniuria formae,
et genus invisum, et rapti Ganymedis honores.
His accensa super, iactatos aequore toto
Troas, reliquias Danaum atque immitis Achilli,
arcebat longe Latio, multosque per annos
errabant, acti fatis, maria omnia circum.
Tantae molis erat Romanam condere gentem!
9
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11
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?? t? ?e??-? t??t?? ???-?a? ?pa?f??ete?
a?t?? ??? t??t??? ????sate ??s?a d??te?,
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?’??? ^ ? d? e?? ??? ??ast?? ???pe??? 5 ???es? ?a??e?,
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But whose 9? Whose 11? Is it terrible to be an American, knowing nothing of civilisation? Or is it comfortable? Is it sweet, to know nothing of nothing? Does the amoeba feel good? Report.
(Have I made your researchers busy? There are many allusions).
Yeah, we didn’t need any confirmation of the anti-Jew hatred of many of the readers of Craig’s blog, but bringing up this Eustace Mullins guy provided a bit more flavor.
And we also didn’t need any confirmation of the link between the nutter British left and the nutter American right. Apparently you people are now in bed with McCarthy’s soldiers. From Wikipedia:
“Eustace Mullins, who was a researcher at the Library of Congress in 1950 when McCarthy asked him to look into who was financing the Communist Party, was the keynote speaker at a dinner Sunday evening sponsored by the Sen. Joseph McCarthy Educational Foundation. I’ve come to believe in recent years that he started to turn the tide against world communism, said Mullins.” (The Capital Times, Madison, WI, May 21, 2001, p. 3A. Full Text Newspapers. Thomson Gale)[2]
Vronsky writes: “But whose 9? Whose 11? Is it terrible to be an American, knowing nothing of civilisation?”
You seem entirely ignorant of how the world works.
Larry: answer the questions.