Having complained of people posting off topic, it seems a reasonable solution to give an opportunity for people to discuss the topics I am banning from other threads – of which 9/11 seems the most popular.
I do not believe that the US government, or any of its agencies, were responsible for 9/11. It would just need too many people to be involved. Someone would have objected. There are some strange and dangerous people in America, but not in sufficient concentration for this one. They couldn’t even keep Watergate quiet, and that was a small group. Any group I can think of – even Blackwater – would contain operatives with scruples about blowing up New York. They may be sadly ready to kill people in poor countries, but Americans en masse? Somebody would say it wasn’t a good idea.
I asked a friend in the construction industry what it would take to demolish the twin towers. He replied nine months, 80 men, and 12 miles of cabling. The notion that a small team at night could plant sufficient explosives embedded at key points, is laughable.
The forces of the aircraft impacts must have been amazingly high. I have no difficulty imagining they would bring down the building. As for WTC 7, again the kinetic energy of the collapse of the twin towers must be immense.
I admit to a private speculation about WTC7. Unfortunately in construction it is extremely common for contractors not to fix or install properly all the expensive girders, ties and rebar that are supposed to be enclosed in the concrete. Supervising contractors and municipal inspectors can be corrupt. I recall vividly that in London some years ago a tragedy occurred when a simple gas oven explosion brought down the whole side of a tower block.
The inquiry found that the building contractor had simply omitted the ties that bound the girders at the corners, all encased in concrete. If a gas oven had not blown up, nobody would have found out. Buildings I strongly suspect are very often not as strong as they are supposed to be, with contractors skimping on apparently redundant protection. The sort of sordid thing you might not want too deeply investigated in the event of a national tragedy.
Precisely what happened at the Pentagon I am less sure. There is not the conclusive film and photographic evidence that there is for New York. I am particularly puzzled by the much more skilled feat of flying that would be required to hit a building virtually at ground level, in an urban area, after a lamppost clipping route – very hard to see how a non-professional pilot did that. But I can think of a number of possible scenarios where the official explanation is not quite the whole truth on the Pentagon, but which do not necessitate a belief that the US government or Dick Cheney was behind the attack.
In my view the real scandal of 9/11 was that it was blowback – the product of a malignant terrorist agency whose origins lay in CIA funding and provision. Also blowback in a more general sense that it was spawned in the nasty theocratic dictatorship of Saudi Arabia which is so close to the US and to the Bush dynasty in particular. As with almost all terrorist activity, I do not rule out any point on the whole spectrum of surveillance, penetration and agent provocateur activity by any number of possible actors.
But was 9/11 false flag and controlled demolition? No, I think not.
(Now I have given full opportunity to discuss 9/11 here, any further references on other threads will be instantly deleted).
“Most rednecks in the US would do the Governments bidding and never tell anyone, Why? Because its great to be ‘on the inside’.”
1. Silly anti-Americanism.
2. People on the East Coast are from the East Coast. They’re certainly not rednecks (although they have their own problems).
3. As Angrysoba pointed out, the Bible-thumping rednecks are on your side. Virtually all 911 truthers in the States are Christians who believe in an impending judgment day.
A very minor (seriously, Angrysoba, very minor) subset of them HATE JEWS. Apparently, those are your people.
“A very minor (seriously, Angrysoba, very minor) subset of them HATE JEWS.”
I agree. I don’t think that many rednecks hate Jews but those that favour the Barnes Review, the American Free Press, the Political Cesspool and Stormfront are ALL Jew-haters (and racists in general). It’s so odd that so many commenters here are willing to ally themselves with people affiliated to those groups.
At least, at the end of the day, we can all see that 9/11 was clearly an inside job. We can all hope that Larry and Angrysoba get the medical treatment that they so obviously need.
Jaded: what’s the best piece of evidence that 911 was an inside job?
Angrysoba,
Yeah, I have to admit I never heard of Eustace Mullins before. Must have been a reason!
Gilad Atzmon, Benjamin Freedman, Norman Finklestein, Israel Shahak, Myron C. Fagan….
All jews, all one-time subscribers to the Zionist ideals… all orators or writers that offer a good insight into the failures of Zionism. I’m sure you’ve heard of some of them Angrysoba… Why not try your anti-semitic attacks on them? Oh right… hmmmm… they’re Jewish…. must be self-hating Jews right?
Give me a break.
I dare you to listen to Ben Freedman 1961 address in the Willard Hotel.
Why not read Gilad Atzmon’s writings?
or how about watching ‘defamation’ by Yoav Shamir, an Israeli Jew…
Then try your predictable tarring.
This idea that STW wouldn’t be seen dead on the streets with 9/11 Truth is psy-op codswallop.
I picked up my first 9/11 Truth DVD on a STW march.I met David Shayler the MI6 whistle-blower on a STW march.He gave me a free copy of his DVD:Mind The Gap re-the 7/7 inside job.
The STW official line on 9/11 that we must abjure from conspiracy theory and to even mention the role of Israel is “anti-semitic” is the reason STW cannot get anyone out on the streets anymore.
If they had led from the front and identified 9/11 for the inside job most of us know it was,as the kickstart catalyst corrupt elites used to start wars of aggression-then millions of us would still be on the streets today.
Typically the left displayed instead an utter failure of analysis and abject loss of nerve in its pathetic bid to retain its respectability.Left-gatekeeper hacks and theorists,like Cockburn-even Chomsky, were bought and sold by the corporate media to marginalize any gathering perception amog the masses that 9/11 had been planned and executed by the very people allotted with the task of protecting us.
Such an impasse has STW/Respect come to that invariably when they put up Galloway or Salma Yacoub these spokespersons are struck dumb the minute some BBC Zio-nut like Melanie Philips spouts off about how we had to deal with Saddam after 9/11 etc.
Because they’re terrified of the consequences of challenging-the very raison d’etre for the War on Terror the initiative stays with the Zionists and their fellow conspirators.
Pathetic really but we can only guess how deeply infiltrated STW and Respect are by the likes of Larry,angri,techni disinformationists.
If I ever go on another STW march-when we’re about to attack Iran probably-it won’t be in the hope that the STW leadership will enable us to prevent the coming war.Nor will it be to listen to listen to great rousing speeches from Galloway,German,Eno,or even Craig Murray-no,it’ll be in the hope I’ll pick up another DVD!
Larry:
‘Jaded, what’s the best piece of evidence that 911 was an inside job?’
Larry, you big loon, I already answered you. You…
I think that this man is actually unhinged. No one listen to his insanne ramblings.
Oh look, Larry the Lamb seems to have run off into hiding. Poor little Lamby… 🙁
Steelback:
‘Pathetic really but we can only guess how deeply infiltrated STW and Respect are by the likes of Larry,angri,techni disinformationists.’
Lol, yes, aren’t they pathetic specimens of humanity! I bet they have taken time off to go and to do some torture or something… They are not fit to lick the shit from the soles of Craig’s boots, let alone contribute to his blog. Craig has already branded them as agent provocateurs as it is. They expect people to believe their whimpering remonstrations? Be gone you foul, stinky, little weasels before we get cross with you and spank your bottoms until they are red and angry. LMFAO. :-0
Larry: what are your two best pieces of evidence that asking people for their two best pieces of evidence is not, ipso facto, evidence of imperviousness to evidence?
Ha, I knew it, he has no answer and is completely flummoxed. 😉
Larry: what’s the best piece of evidence that supports the official?
Is it those holdalls with the flying manuals and copies of the Koran? Or is it those (impossible) cell-phone calls from UA93?
It must be one of the two cos there’s precious little else.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Xc1x9BEPG6E/SaPhhwIh2cI/AAAAAAAAEr0/wKob8zkOMq0/s400/Jim%2BWright%2BBoss%2BHog.jpg
Angrysoba.
Gilad Atzmon, Benjamin Freedman, Norman Finklestein, Israel Shahak, Myron C. Fagan….
Comment please. Don’t leave now. It’s just starting to get interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEnE4nakqW4&feature=PlayList&p=456FF980EBAA11A6&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=35
Wooohooooooo!!!!
Democracies that see themselves as perfect have to invent enemies.”Terror” even of the synthetic variety fits the bill.Such societies want to be judged by their enemies rather than by anything they themselves achieve.
In such societies the public must never know everything about terrorism.They only need to know that compared to terrorism everything else is more rational and democratic.
Thus the images of 9/11 present the public with a simplified version of the perceptible world.Images selected are those most likely to facilitate the mass psychology of submission.DeBord understood the succession of images chosen by the corporate media to represent such events as a “perpetual arbitrary surprise” leaving the spectator with no time for reflection.The presentation of the images was entirely independent of what s/he might think or understand from them.
In the concrete experience of submission to the image diffused the psychological origin of the general adhesion to what is;an adhesion the spectator recognises ipso facto as a sufficient value is evident.”Pre-spectacular” knowledge,as DeBord saw it,demands making extemporised judgements on an ad hoc basis.
Reading is just such an activity in which “pre-spectacular” knowledge becomes accessible.Books,the right ones of course,the internet are the source of real information wherein lies our salvation.
Paying overmuch attention to corporate disinformation supplied by “experts”/ “terrorologists” who DeBord defined in anticipation as “the most useful experts…the ones that lie”-is capitulation to the NWO the terror sponsors seek to establish at the expense of our freedom.
Don’t be fooled by the images or the decontextualied presentation of them by the media.They are not the truth.
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/14-irfan-husain-the-lessons-of-history-620-zj-08
Now, people, here is a question: does anyone have two pieces of evidence that prove conclusively and irrefutably the existence of human consciousness?
“I think… therefore I may be… maybe.”
“does anyone have two pieces of evidence that prove conclusively and irrefutably the existence of human consciousness?”
Me sir, I do sir!
1) You wrote that post and
2) I read it
Do i get a gold star Suhayl?
Define consciousness.
Neurological evidence suggests that we are unconscious of most of the activity in our brains.
🙂
You probably don’t even realise you wrote that dreoilin.
Gold star, MJ!
Pardon me, I thought this was a dream in the eye of… or an eye in the dream of… [sound of a distant supernova-which-has-no-sound…] I think I think, therefore I think… [sound of steam and clanging]… I… I… [small explosion]… [tone in the note C, sustained to infinity]
Yes, well, I was always a Beatles fan.
Disinformation,according to DeBord,is not a multi-purpose instrument of social control it is only good for counterattack purposes.It must be kept in reserve then thrown into the fray to drive back any truth that has managed to arise.Disinformation is used to refute all ctitique that has not been sufficiently made to disappear.
False attacks are used to protect elite domination.Imbecility believes all is clear when television has shown a beautiful image and commented on it with a brazen lie.
DeBord clearly foresaw our modern predicament in which imbeciles become just another branch of “experts”.They are currently engaged vainly seeking to shore up a elite paradigm in which general belief is wavering.
The recourse to a strategy of defensive terrorism by the state against its own citizens can lead to only momentary and precarious successes.Grave social crisis,real or feared precipitate the state’s use of its arms against the population.
The recourse to the disinformation agents and “gamers” has proved desperate and hopelessly misguided.The budgerigars here have proved so inept they’ve probably converted many who were formerly unconvinced to the idea that 9/11 was indeed an inside job.
“Gilad Atzmon, Benjamin Freedman, Norman Finklestein, Israel Shahak, Myron C. Fagan….
All jews, all one-time subscribers to the Zionist ideals… all orators or writers that offer a good insight into the failures of Zionism. I’m sure you’ve heard of some of them Angrysoba… Why not try your anti-semitic attacks on them? Oh right… hmmmm… they’re Jewish…. must be self-hating Jews right?”
Gilad Atzmon comes out with some of the shrillest anti-semitic tropes of modern times. Essentially he believes Jews have to ask themselves why the Nazis killed them in the Holocaust suggesting it was at least partly their fault. Nonsense. Anti-semitic nonsense.
It doesn’t surprise me that you’re a fan. You probably get exctited reading his screeds and think, “If the Jews are saying it too then this stuff is bullet-proof”. No, it’s just anti-semitic.
Norman Finkelstein comes out with some dangerously suggestvie stuff in the Holocaust Industry. Essentially much of it wouldn’t be out of place in anti-semitic Holocaust-denying literature. (Jokes about the Holocaust, the same allegation that Jews may have been partly responsible for their treatment etc… etc…)
Israel Shahak has some stuff which is also similar to the two above (seems to be a theme here. Wonder what you like about these authors).
What do these authors have in common, Edo? Please comment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEnE4nakqW4&feature=PlayList&p=456FF980EBAA11A6&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=35
Wooohooooooo!!!!
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Xc1x9BEPG6E/SaPhhwIh2cI/AAAAAAAAEr0/wKob8zkOMq0/s400/Jim%2BWright%2BBoss%2BHog.jpg
Aaah.. Angrysoba. You’re back.
So these authors are anti-semitic? Despite being Jewish? Yeah Yeah.
And especially interesting that you left out Ben Freedman. Did you bother listening to that 1961 address in the Willard Hotel? I’ll let you google it, or maybe you have a copy already in your files eh?
As for what they have in common?
Duhhhh!!!! They’re telling truth old boy! Run along now.
Well, Edo.
If they’re not anti-semitic then why did YOU connect them to Eustace Mullins, who incontestably is, by bringing them up in a discussion of him?
I have never heard of Benjamin Freedman or the others on your list and I don’t think I’d be interested in reading or listening to their stuff if you are a representative fan.
It probably takes considerably less courage than you pretend it does to listen to some guy droning on in a hotel so I won’t bother if it’s all the same with you.
Of course you wouldn’t Angrysoba.
🙂