Having complained of people posting off topic, it seems a reasonable solution to give an opportunity for people to discuss the topics I am banning from other threads – of which 9/11 seems the most popular.
I do not believe that the US government, or any of its agencies, were responsible for 9/11. It would just need too many people to be involved. Someone would have objected. There are some strange and dangerous people in America, but not in sufficient concentration for this one. They couldn’t even keep Watergate quiet, and that was a small group. Any group I can think of – even Blackwater – would contain operatives with scruples about blowing up New York. They may be sadly ready to kill people in poor countries, but Americans en masse? Somebody would say it wasn’t a good idea.
I asked a friend in the construction industry what it would take to demolish the twin towers. He replied nine months, 80 men, and 12 miles of cabling. The notion that a small team at night could plant sufficient explosives embedded at key points, is laughable.
The forces of the aircraft impacts must have been amazingly high. I have no difficulty imagining they would bring down the building. As for WTC 7, again the kinetic energy of the collapse of the twin towers must be immense.
I admit to a private speculation about WTC7. Unfortunately in construction it is extremely common for contractors not to fix or install properly all the expensive girders, ties and rebar that are supposed to be enclosed in the concrete. Supervising contractors and municipal inspectors can be corrupt. I recall vividly that in London some years ago a tragedy occurred when a simple gas oven explosion brought down the whole side of a tower block.
The inquiry found that the building contractor had simply omitted the ties that bound the girders at the corners, all encased in concrete. If a gas oven had not blown up, nobody would have found out. Buildings I strongly suspect are very often not as strong as they are supposed to be, with contractors skimping on apparently redundant protection. The sort of sordid thing you might not want too deeply investigated in the event of a national tragedy.
Precisely what happened at the Pentagon I am less sure. There is not the conclusive film and photographic evidence that there is for New York. I am particularly puzzled by the much more skilled feat of flying that would be required to hit a building virtually at ground level, in an urban area, after a lamppost clipping route – very hard to see how a non-professional pilot did that. But I can think of a number of possible scenarios where the official explanation is not quite the whole truth on the Pentagon, but which do not necessitate a belief that the US government or Dick Cheney was behind the attack.
In my view the real scandal of 9/11 was that it was blowback – the product of a malignant terrorist agency whose origins lay in CIA funding and provision. Also blowback in a more general sense that it was spawned in the nasty theocratic dictatorship of Saudi Arabia which is so close to the US and to the Bush dynasty in particular. As with almost all terrorist activity, I do not rule out any point on the whole spectrum of surveillance, penetration and agent provocateur activity by any number of possible actors.
But was 9/11 false flag and controlled demolition? No, I think not.
(Now I have given full opportunity to discuss 9/11 here, any further references on other threads will be instantly deleted).
Now I know you’re a bit sore about juniper and me looking after your wife and knocking back your bourbon but surely you can make a better fist of elevating the debate than that last contribution.
Fact is,most of us think it’s about time you fucked off,Larry.
Don’t they have the Samaritans in the US? Someone as intellectually challenged as yourself must get quite depressed when you get wiped out night after night.You must go to bed feeling like shit,pal.By the time we make the 1000th comment on this thread you’ll be in dire need of therapy!
Can you count that high? Do you have any concept of self-esteem?
Probably not.
Seems like you can’t distinguish between a fairy story and a conspiracy theory.The official 911 account about the 19 guys with box-cutters is both.
Do yourself a favour and stop making a complete arse of yourself in public.The guys that do their homework on this site are making mincemeat of you,angri and the disinfo team.
Sleep well,dickbrain!
“By the time we make the 1000th comment on this thread you’ll be in dire need of therapy!”
Nah, I’ve actually been stalked by your American right-wing counterparts (that is, those idiots in America who believe that 911 was an inside job). And I assume they have guns. So some little pissant lefty anti-Semitic limey is not much of a burden to me.
Have you yet digested the fact that Craig Murray doesn’t believe in your fantasies? Why do you keep coming back here if he thinks that you’re deluded?
UGG Boots. Right. Okay. So, where do they fit in ? Are they Good or Bad ? Are they part of the plot, or are they only trying to confuse us ?
“It’s good you’re back again: I thought you’d gone off in a hissy fit because Clark had pwned you. Are you going to answer his question now you’re back?”
Clark had not pwned me, you dick! I was ignoring Clark because his questions about Israel had nothing to do with 9/11. He was simply jumping on the bandwagon that was being steered by the resident Jew-haters.
I don’t have many opinions on Israel and I think Clark’s opinions on Israel have been fed to him by Jew-hating propagandists and he’s too thick to realize he’s being manipulated.
Now, the nuclear power plant thing is just silly.
Why didn’t the hijackers fly into that? Who the fuck knows. Maybe they didn’t realize there was one there, it took you dozy 9/11 conspiracy theorists… sorry RESEARSHERS, 9 years to work out the hijackers flew over it why should the hijackers have realized they were flying over it on their way to their targets?
Does anyone actually read the crap tungsten types?
I fear the answer might be, “yes” but whenever I try to read it my eyes glaze over. After a while one tedious anti-semitic rant reads like any other one.
Larry and angri
Are you still spraying everyone with bullshit? You pair of dingbats!
The history you call,”conspiracy theory”,is drives a coach and horses through your mind-numbingly vacuous arguments.
Hollywood might have brainwashed you into thinking organized crime in the US was run by the Italian mafia.In point of fact as tungsten shows it is leading members of the Zionist Lobby who have controlled the crime syndicate since the 1920s.
The Moschepoche might have convinced you they were all philanthropists most of us know different.
That this network had the form,motivation,and means to execute the 9/11 atrocity and cover it up is beyond dispute.
Notwithstanding the Hollywood programming that has so warped your sense of reality Don Corleone is off the radar on this one.
LOL! You saps.
http://i48.tinypic.com/t7g1f6.jpg
He who talks a lot, says little.
“That’ll be why the plane that hit the Pentagon ground to a halt at the outer wall. Oh, wait…”
The pentagon walls aren’t made up of a solid 1m thick reinforced concrete shell though.
Also a nuclear reactor building is about 40x40m in plan and around 25 to 35m high. Far smaller than the whole pentagon building. Just remember that the terrorists were aiming for the whole building.
Crashing a plane into a nuclear power plant would cause a lot of damage but would probably not cause enough damage to blow up the reactor.
I absolutely laugh at the concept of “blowing up the reactor” with an explosion. Very funny.
Though Chris – we do have to give credit for the truthers coming up with something original, as it’s been years since they said something original.
Yawn.
Hey! Why didn’t the hijackers fly into the White House or the Statue of Liberty?
The fact they didn’t proves it was an inside job – smoking gun!
Technicolour yawn.
Angrysoba,
Larry,
I see that neither of you have chosen to answer my civil and reasonable questions.
However, I do see a couple of other things. From Larry we have a very vague accusation-like thingy: “Clark was trying to steer the conversation into anti-Semitic territory” (eh?), and from Angrysoba we have this:
“…Clark… was simply jumping on the bandwagon that was being steered by the resident Jew-haters.
I don’t have many opinions on Israel and I think Clark’s opinions on Israel have been fed to him by Jew-hating propagandists and he’s too thick to realize he’s being manipulated.”
Well thank you very much, Angrysoba. In fact I can think for myself, and my opinions of Israel result from reliable reports of its appalling policies and actions.
For some time I’ve suspected that you, Angrysoba and Larry, are Zionists. I don’t mess about like the Apostate multiple character – I do the decent thing, and ask directly. You can engage in a forthright manner, or you can evade.
So, Larry, Angrysoba, my questions remain. I’d like to know where you stand on Israel. I doubt that you’ll answer, because I think you’re ashamed. But I’ll look in here every day or so to see if you’ve answered. Until you do, you will have little respect with me.
“why should the hijackers have realized they were flying over it on their way to their targets?”
Given that they were flying blind it’s remarkable that they were able to find the Pentagon for that matter.
“The pentagon walls aren’t made up of a solid 1m thick reinforced concrete shell though”.
chris g: I think you’ll find that the wall in question had been recently rebuilt with the express purpose of resisting impact and collecting debris. All the more reason to wonder what happened to the plane.
Larry and angri-you bird-brains,you’re straight of a mumble-core movie what the BeJeez do you know about originality?
You can’t write off your country’s history as “conspiracy theory” you jerk-offs.
If you haven’t factored the Anglo-American Establishment and the Moschepoche into your calculations you’ll never begin to account for 9/11.
Mind you most of us think you’re in the business of keeping everyone off the scent rather than accounting for it.
You’ve signally failed to account for the physical anomalies-the patently obvious controlled demolition of the Twin Towers and WT7.You can’t account for the disturbingly unusual events at the Pentagon or in Pennsylvania.
The 911 Money Trail is a another aspect that leads straight to those who had foreknowledge of the attack.Corbett Report episode 67 concerns this specifically.
Silverstein and Zakheim are just two of the names that crop up repeatedly.These guys are Moschepoche not philanthropists! Silverstein made billions out of his insurance on the Twin Towers.He’d only bought the lease for $15m that Spring.
And what happened to the Bank of Novia Scotia gold buried at Ground Zero?
The trillions that went missing from the Pentagon?
William Bergman’s money laudering investigation terminated by the Fed.
And the scoop and dump policy Guiliani and Fire Commissioner von Essen adopted with regard to the vast debris and evidence at Ground Zero? In November they restricted the number of firefighters then searching Ground Zero for bodies to just twenty-five.Up to that point up to 300 had been at work daily.
Even a cursory look at these discrepancies and the modes of operation at work points straight to the Zionist network that controls organized crime:MISHPUCKA.
You’re working your butts off trying to bury the truth-it’s not working-schmucks!
The blanket coverage on this thread by Larry and Angrysoba is worrying.
I understand the intense activity by Larry who claims some shocking stories relating to his friend(s) in NYFD.
I have yet to witness his remorse and appreciation for the terrible consequences of first responders affected by the poisonous fumes
and dust after the collapses.
I have spoken to a British lady who frequented the WebCameron board and who was an ardent activist in the UK
against wind farms being built near populated areas.
She was in America I believe the week before 9/11 and while in New York her helicopter flight was delayed by a
small black helicopter carrying a number of Arabs wanting to fly round the twin towers.
She was ‘taken back’ by one of the passengers who she said, “looked remarkably like Bin Laden.”
Just a story, but one that has prompted me to contact this lady again and ask
her for anything else she can recall.
Obviously this story is open to ridicule (Larry?Angrysoba?) but it is of course the smallest detail that will eventually
unravel the ‘unknowns’ associated with 9/11 and the inadequate and unscientific inquiry.
Mark Golding, you always seem to be in the middle of everything!
Clark wrote: “For some time I’ve suspected that you, Angrysoba and Larry, are Zionists.”
First, I don’t know what you mean by “Zionist.” I’ve been to Zion National Park; nice place. I know what “Zionist” meant in the first half of the 20th century. I know what “Zionist” means on websites like stormfront, and I know what it means when people like bin Laden say it. But I’m not sure what you mean.
Second, Clark, for some time I’ve suspected that you’re a Holocaust denier and a conspiracy nut. You seem to not have a problem with the Jew hatred and the conspiracy insanity around here. Do you really think that the secret agent men are harassing Roderick Russell because he quit his job? Do you think that an acquaintance of Mark Golding saw bin Laden fly in a helicopter around NYC? (a BLACK helicopter at that – oh no!) Do you really think that secret agent men were planting supersecretnanothermite in the Towers prior to 911 without getting noticed?
I take it from your silence on such issues, and your insistent and consistent challenging of me and angrysoba, that these are things that you find plausible.
Which leads me to suspect that you’re a Holocaust denier. Everyone here on the other side (save Craig, I suppose) seems to be.
Doobie-doobie-doobie-doobie-doobie-do-do-do!
San Lorenzo de la Puta, 1313 AD
MJ
It was still not 1m thick was it. The fact is that a 1m thick wall can stop a train (more solid than a plane) travelling at 100mph dead in it’s tracks without affecting the structural integrity so a plane (lighter and less solidly built) would probably break up into many pieces when it hit a 1m thcik RC wall. It may cause more damage to the all but it isn’t going to puncture it and crash into the reactor. Impossible.
Larry Old Chap.
Why don’t you explain what it is you know about:
a Zionist in the early half of the 20th Century
a Zionist on a stormfront website
and a Zionist when Bin Laden talk about them
I’d really love to hear YOUR understanding, so we know we’re talking about the same Zionsists?
Cheers!
@chris, glasgow: “Crashing a plane into a nuclear power plant would cause a lot of damage but would probably not cause enough damage to blow up the reactor.”:
“September 21, 2001: NRC admits uncertainty that the nation?s 103 plants could withstand the same kind of impact that leveled the World Trade Center.”
“June 2004: The 9/11 commission and its witnesses divulge that additional air-based terrorist attacks have already been attempted, that more major attacks are likely in the near future, and that nuclear power plants are top al-Qaeda targets.”
http://www.ipsecinfo.org/1952.htm
“She was in America I believe the week before 9/11 and while in New York her helicopter flight was delayed by a
small black helicopter…”
Ah ha ha ha ha!
Will you at least look at this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_helicopter
“… carrying a number of Arabs wanting to fly round the twin towers.
She was ‘taken back’ by one of the passengers who she said, “looked remarkably like Bin Laden.””
Oh Christ! Yes, I’m sure that Bin Laden flies around on black helicopters being told by the pilot (Prescott Bush? Kim Jong-il? Bernie Madoff? Elvis?) which targets he can hit (“That’s the nuclear power plant. Don’t hit that now!”)
“Obviously this story is open to ridicule”
Yuh think?
“but it is of course the smallest detail that will eventually
unravel the ‘unknowns’ associated with 9/11 and the inadequate and unscientific inquiry.”
That “of course” has no business being there. Why should it be the “smallest detail” which overturns the vast body of evidence that shows 19 guys flew planes into buildings?
@Suhayl Saadi: “San Lorenzo de la Puta, 1313 AD”
Brilliant.
“For some time I’ve suspected that you, Angrysoba and Larry, are Zionists.”
And I suspect you are a paranoid 46-year old virgin with a Miss Marple complex.
Look, if you want Craig to put up a post on Israel why don’t you ask him. Maybe we’ll get a bit clarity on the other contributors here.
I don’t exactly know what you mean by “Zionist” but if you mean the belief in self-determination for Jews then yes, I am a Zionist. Of course, if you are an anti-Zionist by that description then why are you so vocal about Jews not having self-determination.
I wonder what your stance is on Abkhazian statehood, or Boluchi statehood, or Tamil statehood, or Western Sahara or East Turkestan, or the people of Diego Garcia? You could probably see how this topic can spiral out of control so I don’t see why I should let you derail the thread with anymore of your demands to be indulged.
So, you’ve had my answer and I don’t care whether you think I should be “ashamed” because I’d be ashamed of some of the associates the so-called left makes common cause with if I were you.
Larry,
Angrysoba,
temper, temper, boys. I don’t think I’ve said anything to upset you, have I? All those things you say I “might” be, well, what wonderful imaginations you seem to have. Do show me the evidence behind your accusations.
No, I’m not the least bit worried about people believing odd things about 911. Ultimately, it’s pretty harmless.
No, I’m not especially worried about Apostate and his many sock-puppets. I find it quite amusing when his various characters start chatting to each other for want of anyone else to talk to.
I’m not sure how you manage to take it so seriously.
It’s Craig’s blog, he can delete my comments / questions if he wishes. But he probably has better things to do than to read this thread.
So you don’t know what I mean by “Zionist”. OK, just tell me what you think of Israel, as I asked before. Or should this be a forbidden question?
Hawley jr. This is from a CRS report into terrorist attacks on nuclear power plants.
“In light of the possibility that an air attack might penetrate the containment building
of a nuclear plant, some interest groups have suggested that such an event could be
followed by a meltdown and widespread radiation exposure. Nuclear industry
spokespersons have countered by pointing out that relatively small, low-lying nuclear
power plants are difficult targets for attack, and have argued that penetration of the
containment is unlikely, and that even if such penetration occurred it probably would not
reach the reactor vessel. They suggest that a sustained fire, such as that which melted the
structures in the World Trade Center buildings, would be impossible unless an attacking
plane penetrated the containment completely, including its fuel-bearing wings.
Recently completed NRC studies ?confirm that the likelihood of both damaging the
reactor core and releasing radioactivity that could affect public health and safety is low,?”
If you think a plane could penetrate a 1m thick RC core reactor building and cause an explosion then you need to go to uni and learn a little bit about structural engineering cause you don’t have a clue.
Angrysoba – no, Clark is actually 47. He pulled that out from the beginning to suggest that his arguments must have more weight because he’s 47. And you of course notice that he dodged the Abkhazia Question (on this thread about 911!). Perhaps he’s too ashamed of himself. I can’t tell if he’s a Resettlement Zealot, a Territorialist or a Caucus Universalist. In any event, I’m sure it’s not good.
“And you of course notice that he dodged the Abkhazia Question (on this thread about 911!).”
I know. It is VERY revealing.
“Perhaps he’s too ashamed of himself.”
How could he not be?
Clark, your cheeks must be burning red as you read this!
Of, fuck off. You sound like fucking Mel Gibson.
Posted by: Larry
I know. It is VERY revealing.
Posted by: angrysoba
It is?
What a pair of rank amateurs. One of you supposed to be a lawyer “from one of the best law schools in the USA”. Thank god you’re not defending me. I can just see you now, steely eyes, cold face, walking up to the witness box and fixing the prosecution witness with a look of utter contempt and saying, “Oh, fuck off. You sound like fucking Mel Gibson. Both in real life and in the movie “Conspiracy Theory’!” … and the judge raising his gavel and intoning in a bored voice, “Case dismissed for lack of evidence” … and the cheers in the gallery, and the press rushing out the door to file their stories: “Famous defense lawyer does it again”