Having complained of people posting off topic, it seems a reasonable solution to give an opportunity for people to discuss the topics I am banning from other threads – of which 9/11 seems the most popular.
I do not believe that the US government, or any of its agencies, were responsible for 9/11. It would just need too many people to be involved. Someone would have objected. There are some strange and dangerous people in America, but not in sufficient concentration for this one. They couldn’t even keep Watergate quiet, and that was a small group. Any group I can think of – even Blackwater – would contain operatives with scruples about blowing up New York. They may be sadly ready to kill people in poor countries, but Americans en masse? Somebody would say it wasn’t a good idea.
I asked a friend in the construction industry what it would take to demolish the twin towers. He replied nine months, 80 men, and 12 miles of cabling. The notion that a small team at night could plant sufficient explosives embedded at key points, is laughable.
The forces of the aircraft impacts must have been amazingly high. I have no difficulty imagining they would bring down the building. As for WTC 7, again the kinetic energy of the collapse of the twin towers must be immense.
I admit to a private speculation about WTC7. Unfortunately in construction it is extremely common for contractors not to fix or install properly all the expensive girders, ties and rebar that are supposed to be enclosed in the concrete. Supervising contractors and municipal inspectors can be corrupt. I recall vividly that in London some years ago a tragedy occurred when a simple gas oven explosion brought down the whole side of a tower block.
The inquiry found that the building contractor had simply omitted the ties that bound the girders at the corners, all encased in concrete. If a gas oven had not blown up, nobody would have found out. Buildings I strongly suspect are very often not as strong as they are supposed to be, with contractors skimping on apparently redundant protection. The sort of sordid thing you might not want too deeply investigated in the event of a national tragedy.
Precisely what happened at the Pentagon I am less sure. There is not the conclusive film and photographic evidence that there is for New York. I am particularly puzzled by the much more skilled feat of flying that would be required to hit a building virtually at ground level, in an urban area, after a lamppost clipping route – very hard to see how a non-professional pilot did that. But I can think of a number of possible scenarios where the official explanation is not quite the whole truth on the Pentagon, but which do not necessitate a belief that the US government or Dick Cheney was behind the attack.
In my view the real scandal of 9/11 was that it was blowback – the product of a malignant terrorist agency whose origins lay in CIA funding and provision. Also blowback in a more general sense that it was spawned in the nasty theocratic dictatorship of Saudi Arabia which is so close to the US and to the Bush dynasty in particular. As with almost all terrorist activity, I do not rule out any point on the whole spectrum of surveillance, penetration and agent provocateur activity by any number of possible actors.
But was 9/11 false flag and controlled demolition? No, I think not.
(Now I have given full opportunity to discuss 9/11 here, any further references on other threads will be instantly deleted).
crab, you posted that video thinking that Silverstein made a Freudian slip. My God you’re stupid. You completely misquoted him, because your cult leaders have misguided you.
Chief Nigro made the decision to pull the building. The firefighters were pulled. It was an excellent decision in the middle of chaos.
lry: expressions that day of “pull it” meaning “get the firefighters out”
Here is a read -> Your sacred Fema report, chapter 5 [wtc7 building performance]
“WTC 7 collapsed approximately 7 hours after the collapse of WTC 1.Preliminary indications were that, due to lack of water, no manual firefighting actions were taken by FDNY.”
What does that mean larry?
nighto’
crab writes: “7 hour photovoid”
Fuck off.
Did you happen to notice the chaos of that day?
The FDNY had just lost hundreds of men. Other city services were similarly affected.
Given other priorities, they didn’t feel so compelled to pull out cameras and start snapping pictures of WTC7.
The only reason they would have done so would have been to stifle the claims of inevitable conspiracy nutters. But they weren’t really think of the inevitability of people like you coming along.
And it DOESN’T MATTER. You’ve obviously signed up with a cult, without having realized that you’ve done so. What an idiot you are – your mind is now being manipulated by American right-wing nuts and Muslim terrorist sympathizers.
Once again the conspiracy nutters back up their claims with a quote mine.
Again, if you didn’t notice, the FDNY was decimated by the collapses. It was very difficult for them to mount an attack on the fire in Building 7. However, they were still on the scene, and they needed to be pulled.
Really, Crab, are you this dumb?
Once again the conspiracy nutters back up their claims with a quote mine.
Again, if you didn’t notice, the FDNY was decimated by the collapses. It was very difficult for them to mount an attack on the fire in Building 7. However, they were still on the scene, and they needed to be pulled.
Really, Crab, are you this dumb?
Once again the conspiracy nutters back up their claims with a quote mine.
Again, if you didn’t notice, the FDNY was decimated by the collapses. It was very difficult for them to mount an attack on the fire in Building 7. However, they were still on the scene, and they needed to be pulled.
Really, Crab, are you this dumb?
Larry’s hilarious.
and as thick as two bricks.
“Michael Lind doesn’t remotely believe in your dumbass Pentagon conspiracy theory. Try again.”
Posted by: Larry
Stop jumping to conclusions. You’ve wrecked your credibility here by doing it too often already.
And since the FBI confiscated the tapes, you could have said, “I have no link to a photo of a plane crashing into the Pentagon”, but you don’t have the balls to be that honest. You waffle about people stopping to snap pictures.
“you nutters have had almost 9 years to come up with something definitive.”
So did you, chicken, so did you.
Where did you come up with the 83 number for the cameras at the Pentagon? Why not 183?
Michael Lind has written extensively about the silly New World Order / Rothschild / Jew conspiracy theory. Not favorably!
And he writes extensively on all subjects that touch on 911. Don’t you think he might mention that the U.S. government blew up the Towers and there was no plane at the Pentagon, if he believed such silliness?
“and as thick as two bricks.”
Look, I’m just backing up what Craig Murray thinks.
He called you conspiraloons.
He detailed some reasons above.
????? ????? ?????????? 5?
Santa Lorenzo dei Ghibellini. Busy, busy, busy bee. But where is the queen?
“Don’t you think he might mention that the U.S. government blew up the Towers and there was no plane at the Pentagon, if he believed such silliness?”
And WHERE did I say he did?
I told you not to jump to conclusions. You’re doing it all over the place. I posted a link about black helicopters and straight away you were asking me about bin Laden. Stick to what people SAY and not the reason that YOU IMAGINE they are saying it.
Did you do any debating at high school? Did they teach you how to debate at that fancy law school that you supposedly attended? Because it doesn’t look like it to me. You spend at least half your time here putting words into people’s mouths. And believe me, that’s very stupid.
Either you can’t read, or you don’t comprehend English.
Have a nice day
“I posted a link about black helicopters and straight away you were asking me about bin Laden”
No, you silly person; it’s not all about you. Mark Golding indicated that it was possible that bin Laden and some other Arabs were buzzing the WTC in a black helicopter prior to Sept. 11. I was addressing that silliness.
“No, you silly person; it’s not all about you.”
So you weren’t addressing me at at February 16, 2010 1:42 AM when you wrote:
“No, I didn’t link to that wikipedia article.
“I don’t plan on looking at it, but do you believe that people WOULD see black helicopters because bin Laden (who was wanted for the Cole and embassy bombings) was buzzing around the WTC?”
Go away, Larry. You don’t know your arse from your elbow.
dreoilin, OK, so now you posted that link. It was actually Angrysoba that posted it first. In any event, do a word search on helicopter and you’ll see where the genesis of that comment was.
I just can’t believe that you think it’s possible that bin Laden was buzzing the WTC in a black helicopter prior to Sept. 11.
“You spend at least half your time here putting words into people’s mouths. And believe me, that’s very stupid.”
Posted by: dreoilin at February 17, 2010 8:20 AM
What the hell was your point with commenting on the black helicopters issue?
And I’m not accusing you of believing that – I’m suggesting that you’re not insane enough to believe Mark Golding’s story.
Crab: “Because i think he made a clear freudian slip, he should have said “pull out” or “pull them out” but he said “pull IT””
Larry Silverstein didn’t make a Freudian slip. He was talking about getting firefighters off the scene.
There may have been no firefighting operations as such but there were people digging into the rubble of the Towers. Some people were still alive in there.
And yes, there were pictures, Steve Spak made a video of the events there.
Crab, what do you think “pull it” means?
??????????? ????? ?????? 3?
Here’s a good video on the controlled demolitions shown by Richard Gage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFVoencqfZw&feature=player_embedded
Now, as far as I know this guy is an anti-Zionist or something and even he thinks you are conspiraloons:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10YTDOdyju0&feature=related
“Go away, Larry. You don’t know your arse from your elbow.”
She says as she sits on her elbows.
Hi Suhayl,
Was in Glasgow today, after babysitting grandchildren for the morning. At a place you would like – a little blister in spacetime, not here or there or anywhere. The Violin Shop, out near the Kelvingrove museum. Their restorer is an astrophysicist – he once fixed a fiddle for me. Today I was out for a set of strings for the fiddle. And a bone blank.
That ‘ud I mentioned – the nut is softwood – try to tune it, and the strings just cut into the wood. I’d fixed it up in the past, to play (with great difficulty and much emendation) the Skene and Balcarres stuff that you know. It was banished to the loft. After J’s B, I brought it down, dusted it off, decided to replace the nut. Hence the bone blank, sold to me by an astrophysicist for (rolling his eyes upward) oh, two pounds. So it will have a new nut made of bone.
…it is changing.
Note to Larry
You must be on minimum wage for this work. You’d get paid a bit more as a checkout operator up at our local supermarket, and a job like that allows you to preserve some personal dignity. Think it over.
Oh – same offer of an opportunity to angrywotsit, of course. You could sweep up or something – you needn’t attempt any of the more complex tasks like stacking shelves.
Tell us more about those black helicopters, if you like – that sounded really interesting! Are they very black? Have they no white bits at all? Or do you find that in the really good ones the white bits are still quite black? We’re all dying to hear your views!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kzn3KaO2Vyk
Vronsky, that is really fascinating!! I am so pleased that you’ve picked up your ‘ud again and if ‘Joseph’s Box’ encouraged you to do that, gosh I’m really very moved, humbled and elated by that. Wood as soft as skin, a bone plectrum…! Happy playing!
I suspect that both the shop and the astrophysicist are out there, way beyond the Heliopause, close to the Bow Shock.
Feel the intergalactic tides, man.