Having complained of people posting off topic, it seems a reasonable solution to give an opportunity for people to discuss the topics I am banning from other threads – of which 9/11 seems the most popular.
I do not believe that the US government, or any of its agencies, were responsible for 9/11. It would just need too many people to be involved. Someone would have objected. There are some strange and dangerous people in America, but not in sufficient concentration for this one. They couldn’t even keep Watergate quiet, and that was a small group. Any group I can think of – even Blackwater – would contain operatives with scruples about blowing up New York. They may be sadly ready to kill people in poor countries, but Americans en masse? Somebody would say it wasn’t a good idea.
I asked a friend in the construction industry what it would take to demolish the twin towers. He replied nine months, 80 men, and 12 miles of cabling. The notion that a small team at night could plant sufficient explosives embedded at key points, is laughable.
The forces of the aircraft impacts must have been amazingly high. I have no difficulty imagining they would bring down the building. As for WTC 7, again the kinetic energy of the collapse of the twin towers must be immense.
I admit to a private speculation about WTC7. Unfortunately in construction it is extremely common for contractors not to fix or install properly all the expensive girders, ties and rebar that are supposed to be enclosed in the concrete. Supervising contractors and municipal inspectors can be corrupt. I recall vividly that in London some years ago a tragedy occurred when a simple gas oven explosion brought down the whole side of a tower block.
The inquiry found that the building contractor had simply omitted the ties that bound the girders at the corners, all encased in concrete. If a gas oven had not blown up, nobody would have found out. Buildings I strongly suspect are very often not as strong as they are supposed to be, with contractors skimping on apparently redundant protection. The sort of sordid thing you might not want too deeply investigated in the event of a national tragedy.
Precisely what happened at the Pentagon I am less sure. There is not the conclusive film and photographic evidence that there is for New York. I am particularly puzzled by the much more skilled feat of flying that would be required to hit a building virtually at ground level, in an urban area, after a lamppost clipping route – very hard to see how a non-professional pilot did that. But I can think of a number of possible scenarios where the official explanation is not quite the whole truth on the Pentagon, but which do not necessitate a belief that the US government or Dick Cheney was behind the attack.
In my view the real scandal of 9/11 was that it was blowback – the product of a malignant terrorist agency whose origins lay in CIA funding and provision. Also blowback in a more general sense that it was spawned in the nasty theocratic dictatorship of Saudi Arabia which is so close to the US and to the Bush dynasty in particular. As with almost all terrorist activity, I do not rule out any point on the whole spectrum of surveillance, penetration and agent provocateur activity by any number of possible actors.
But was 9/11 false flag and controlled demolition? No, I think not.
(Now I have given full opportunity to discuss 9/11 here, any further references on other threads will be instantly deleted).
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Vronsky: totally fascinating!
It will be interesting to see what you come up with, Mark. What’s desperately needed is a rigorous review of the literature and a chasing of everything back to primary sources. It’s time to stop playing around with chrisangrylarry – we should speak only to each other. I do believe the shills are worth reading, though – they clearly did not study history, and seem unaware of the pitfalls of unwitting testimony.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, so what evidence we can find must be sifted carefully. I suspect Suhayl might argue that a claim that the US government murdered 3000 of its own citizens is not particularly extraordinary, and mathematically I’d probably agree – in Bayesian terms, the prior probability of such a thing is not especially low. But (alas) we must deal in political terms and resistance to the thesis is so high (both naturally occurring and artificially maintained) that only the toughest evidence can be admitted for consideration.
You’re off on a long journey, so you might want to consider a tool like Zotero (a Firefox add-on) – I’ve found it very handy. Just Google it. I believe it makes it possible to share research databases with others, but I haven’t tested that bit of it yet.
Back to fixing a new nut on the ‘ud. I think I might have to restring too.
Ok Ok we will get slowly – right now I have to say after many years in the Navy I have never heard a commander be so disrespectful under severe conditions to call brave men from a damage control party
———— ‘it’ ———-
Having said that, we can move on.
Vronsky,
I hope you will include the report done by Dr Barbara Lane, structural fire design solutions expert of ARUP, into the “extraordinary evidence” as it was actually done by someone with a huge amount of experience and not by a bullshit artist.
“It’s time to stop playing around with chrisangrylarry – we should speak only to each other.”
Is that because everything that you have come up with is a load of old crap? Also don’t fucking label me a shill, I commented on this post because I have some expertise in this area and I wanted to highlight mistakes made by some people but you like many others clearly have your blinkers on and won’t listen to that!!! It is very frustrating when people with little understanding about a subject think they can become experts by simply reading a few websites. If you really want to understand the collapse of the WTC buildings then go back to uni and learn structural engineering and stop reading other unqualified peoples shit research.
Chris,
Thanks for that mate, I am no expert, but I hope to be able to source the best
research
online and here from experts, presented in a concise way(instead
of perpetual circles).
I am of the opinion that there was foreknowledge, that is all.
I personally welcome you Chris
and hope we can all get into
reasoned and intelligent points of view that hopefully will lead to our
best efforts for a viable conclusion.
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Looks like these shill cockroaches include an alcoholic from Glasgow too!
The nebbish network comment under several different handles.Quite obviously they don’t like the 911ForRealityDeniers link.More than one has tried to pretend it’s a “hate-sight”.
What they don’t like re-this link is that it describes in a fair amount of detail how these shills operate and how to spot them.
It’s a fairly good rule of thumb to take it that when any of the shills:Larry,angri,crabs,oilman,clark,
techni et al tell you not follow a particular research link you can be pretty sure they don’t want you to know the stuff that’s there.
The serious researchers on this site:Freeborn,Aposate,tungsten et al are posting some first-rate links.Keep up the good work,guys!
I think Craig should feel quite important re-the fact that his blog is infested with disinfo shills.His work as ambassador in Central Asia has obviously led intelligence circles to think he might be disseminating information re-subversion,torture in that part of the world they would rather remained out of the public domain.
Perhaps they even thought he might have put two and two together re-911! I think they’re being a bit paranoid on that one!
I think what they most fear is unmoderated comment boards like this one.They’re really not happy re-the way the internet technology they invented for military intelligence has blown up in their face.The idea of free speech terrifies them even more.
For the serious researchers still in residence who need some further help identifying the higher level Zio-shills check this:
http://www.planetquo.info/spottheshilldebunked.htm
Poseidon reckons “911 AND THE HOLOHOAX ARE THE ZIONISTS’ TWO GREATEST ACHILLES HEELS”-I reckon the shills will be complaining to Craig re-my spelling too!
I’m pretty sure there’ll be some guys here who’ll have something to say when Craig posts on the “Holohoax”!
Anyone for shill-baiting?
Apostate,
Steelback,
Juniper,
Tungsten,
Freeborn,
I am still convinced that you are all the same person. I know I’m not a ‘shill’, though of course I have no way of proving that, any more than you can prove your five supposed identities.
If you wish, you may contact me directly. My name below links to a page with my e-mail address. I’d rather talk to the ‘Apostate’ incarnation, please.
Larry,
you can contact me too, if you wish. I’m still convinced that your agenda includes angering as many people here as you can. Prove me wrong.
Here’s another one the shills-who stage phoney debates and try and bore you shitless so you go away-would rather you never saw.
News as reported at that time that somehow(LOL)slipped off the radar is a coreofcorruption.com speciality.This one’s re-the 4 squatters they reported in the corporate press as being in WTC before 911.The story was subsequently dropped,the four were linked with the Mossad crew who were picked up on 911.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da9MvV-SrCo
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FAO Massa Kent wot ain’t got no hoomer in ya t’all-
You tink Massa Craig runnin’ sum kina dating site or wot?
You mussa know by now I ain’t gonna contact yer!Iz got alla ma time took up wid Larry’s lady jussa now.
Massa tungzon say you a no good shill gamin’ with Larry anyway.He say you a trayter to our country jussa lak Larry anna angri,dat guy widda crabs,tecni,anna that guy drinkin’all da time in Scolan’
Dere woz hole lotta people died dat day inna NY anna millions a dyed since an’ you an’ that Larry Mishpucka crew jussa trynna stop ebody finin’ who dun it cossa dey payz you lotta money,boy!
Youz jussa coverin’ dare treasonos asses,boy!
I mite not had a me much educashun but I know Massa tungzon got his hed screwed alrite anna he say deres gonna be lotta trouble for people like you wenna God Almity say the dey da truth gon come out-dares some mite angry people gwine explode coz dey bin leffa wid nothin’!
Massa tungzon say same people what shelled out our rich country left us wid jussa 7% peuple left in making indusry-dassa pre-Civil War dayz-deyz da one wot dun 911.Issa same loada c—suckers wot doin’it!
Lotta peuple gettin’ mad at angri anna Larry coza dey trayters wot workin for dem Mishpuck B’nai B’rith.
We gettin’ mad bout this motherf—er too:
http://wtclies.googlepages.com/semiliterateparanoiacsaboutt
Anna nexa time you see Larry and dem numskull shills Massa tungzon say yu wanna ax him if Larry Silverstein don’ wan anybody to tink he done 911 den why de Hell ain’t he got ridda dat f—in’ great bomb crater at Groun Zera yet?
Dassa wot give t’all away,man.Now you dumb shills gon’ tella him bout dat!
Bored with this endless carousel.
Has anyone, seriously, been swayed in opinion either way? I doubt it.
I could care less what any of you thought about 9/11. What’s important to me is what I think about it. What’s important to you people? I’m sure none of you could give a shit what I think. (and that’s fine by the way).
Only those with penetration into public opinion should care about what people think of them, after all, they’re talking to you!
Craig has made it clear he in the camp of the official narrative (or story). I am in complete disagreement with him.
Angrysoba, you wrote –
“It took NIST hundreds of structural engineers thousands of hours and millions of dollars to [find an explanation for what WTC7 did]…
…and you don’t find that odd?
Edo,
no, that’s not what Craig wrote.
More on debunking disinfo teams.This is their modus operandi in a nutshell.
This is Larry,angri,techni,clark,and oilman’s training manual.After you’ve watched try out the twelve 911 coincidences on them(LOL).
911 Debunking For Dummies is here:
http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/
If they show their dumb faces here again you just know what they’ll be covered in!
New site up soon:shillbaiters.com
Clark,
which bit of “I could care less” didn’t you understand?
Sorry Edo.
Why are you still reading, then? And posting?
“Has anyone been swayed either way?” – well, sort of… I have learned some stuff. It has been mostly disappointing, though.
Hi,yawl!
I tol’ ya Massa tunzon hadda hiz hed screwed right on.Yu shills lookin’ mity stupid now ain’t ya! Talk ’bout not bein’ able use your own critcal facultees anna followin’ da herd instink insted!
Ebody down here inna St Louis jussa bustin’ dare sides laughin’ so loud lookin’ dat debunkin’ film wid yawl in it exposed for wot yu really are!
Hell,Larry you ain’t never gon’ show yer face on Massa Craig’s site agin now are yer?
I gotta feelin’ you oughta jussa spend time tendin’ wid Massa Silverstein’s cathouse now.Yous anna da disinfo team includin’ dat angri,clark,anna oilman mussa jus gotta finish it all or youz all jussa gon’ makka youselv looker even mo’ stupid.
Massa tungzon say hezza waitin’ for yawl!(LOL)
P.S.Larry issa true yu ritin’ a book real soon? Issa call HOW TO MAKE A COMPLETE ASS OF YOURSELF..For Dummies?
P.P.S.Massa angri yu ougtta be shame yoursel’,boy.Wot wid yu got a blog an’ all anna you makin’ out you doin’ your own reserch anna yu cribbin’ all da time ouuta dat Debunking for Dummies book!
Tink Iz gon check your blog soon anna let em know whatta cheapskate shallow scarlatan you are,boy!
tungsten
I just watched 911 Debunking For Dummies.
I knew this disinfo team was low grade but maybe I gave them just far too much credit.They’re not ADL or B’nai B’rith or even Mishpucka-far too dumb for that.
As was said a long time ago on this thread this crew are just a bunch of saddoes who worship their own willies when everyone else is in bed!
There’s a couple more just come out of woodwork tonight.This must be the disinfo subs bench!
Don’t hold your breath!
Silly sod, multiple character Apostate. “Tungsten’s” link doesn’t work. How could anyone have followed it?
For anyone who missed it:911 Debunking
For Dummies is here:
http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/
Rumour has it Larry and angri thought this site might be a source of ammunition for them against the Truth movement.
Did they make a mistake!
Clark wrote:
“…and you don’t find that odd?”
Clark, only a truther would think the way you do.
1. It was a unique collapse.
2. NIST spends an equivalent amount of time on similar events.
3. Knowing the causes of the collapse was very important for building engineering.
4. If NIST had not dedicated such resources, people like you would think it was “odd.” Since they did dedicate such resources, people like you think it’s “odd.”
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Clark
It works dickbrain.
You still trying to cover their asses?
Bit late,now.
Humourless Shill.(LOL)
Larry,
I’m not a “truther”. Just curious.
Angrysoba:
“Unique” = odd.
“Tungsten”:
Yeah, I got the wrong link.
Larry you showed up!
Had a feeling you were that dumb.You’ve been rumbled pal.We found your training manual.
http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/
You and the disinfo team had your cover blown big time.
Are you sure you want to carrying on making a complete arse of yourself?
Feeling lucky punk? (LOL)
Dingbat Larry!
I knew you were a complete phoney.Maybe you get some kind of high from rubbing shoulders with people who are far and away your intellectual superiors-I mean people like juniper seem to be able to wipe the floor with you!
Did you fake your legal qualifications too?
You’ve been exposed as a fourth-rate 911 shill.Go away and hide would be my advice.
Free academic qualifications here:
PhDsForDummies.com
Go for that Wallmart check-out job tomorrow.Not in St Louis though!
I ain’t laffer so much sinz I red ’bout ol’Dubya chokin’ onna pretzeel!
Gon’ mitey quite yawl.I reckon Larry,angri,clark,edo,anna dat guy wid crabs all lookin’ in dat book.Dat 911 Debunkin’ Fer Dummyz!
Hell dey got mitey lotta cribbin’ for dey get on back to yawl!
You tink dey mita jussa bord ‘chother bout shitless wid dat 911 horseshite dey allus talkin’?
Dey startid out trine bore usta dead an now dey done gon’ done to deyselfs!
Issa eether dis or maybe ‘tween you an’me dem disinfo debunkin’ guys jussa little bitty shame deyselfs anna bitty embarass an’ all bout lookin’ so stupid.
Tink Issa jussa gon mosey my way over to dat angri’s blog.He oughtta get hissa message board moderated mitey quick,yawl! I got few tings I gon say ta him bout bein’ a scarlatan tendin’ he doin’ all his own reserch.
Now we all know he wassa jussa cribbin’ ev’ting outta this here book:
911 DEBUNKING FOR DUMMIES
http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/