Having complained of people posting off topic, it seems a reasonable solution to give an opportunity for people to discuss the topics I am banning from other threads – of which 9/11 seems the most popular.
I do not believe that the US government, or any of its agencies, were responsible for 9/11. It would just need too many people to be involved. Someone would have objected. There are some strange and dangerous people in America, but not in sufficient concentration for this one. They couldn’t even keep Watergate quiet, and that was a small group. Any group I can think of – even Blackwater – would contain operatives with scruples about blowing up New York. They may be sadly ready to kill people in poor countries, but Americans en masse? Somebody would say it wasn’t a good idea.
I asked a friend in the construction industry what it would take to demolish the twin towers. He replied nine months, 80 men, and 12 miles of cabling. The notion that a small team at night could plant sufficient explosives embedded at key points, is laughable.
The forces of the aircraft impacts must have been amazingly high. I have no difficulty imagining they would bring down the building. As for WTC 7, again the kinetic energy of the collapse of the twin towers must be immense.
I admit to a private speculation about WTC7. Unfortunately in construction it is extremely common for contractors not to fix or install properly all the expensive girders, ties and rebar that are supposed to be enclosed in the concrete. Supervising contractors and municipal inspectors can be corrupt. I recall vividly that in London some years ago a tragedy occurred when a simple gas oven explosion brought down the whole side of a tower block.
The inquiry found that the building contractor had simply omitted the ties that bound the girders at the corners, all encased in concrete. If a gas oven had not blown up, nobody would have found out. Buildings I strongly suspect are very often not as strong as they are supposed to be, with contractors skimping on apparently redundant protection. The sort of sordid thing you might not want too deeply investigated in the event of a national tragedy.
Precisely what happened at the Pentagon I am less sure. There is not the conclusive film and photographic evidence that there is for New York. I am particularly puzzled by the much more skilled feat of flying that would be required to hit a building virtually at ground level, in an urban area, after a lamppost clipping route – very hard to see how a non-professional pilot did that. But I can think of a number of possible scenarios where the official explanation is not quite the whole truth on the Pentagon, but which do not necessitate a belief that the US government or Dick Cheney was behind the attack.
In my view the real scandal of 9/11 was that it was blowback – the product of a malignant terrorist agency whose origins lay in CIA funding and provision. Also blowback in a more general sense that it was spawned in the nasty theocratic dictatorship of Saudi Arabia which is so close to the US and to the Bush dynasty in particular. As with almost all terrorist activity, I do not rule out any point on the whole spectrum of surveillance, penetration and agent provocateur activity by any number of possible actors.
But was 9/11 false flag and controlled demolition? No, I think not.
(Now I have given full opportunity to discuss 9/11 here, any further references on other threads will be instantly deleted).
The discovery of pieces of an extremely explosive form of super-Thermite in the dust of the
World Trade Center is of profound importance because it is evidence of
the actual nano-Thermite used to demolish and pulverize the Twin Towers.
The red-gray chips found in the dust by Dr. Steven E. Jones of
Brigham Young University disprove the government claims about what caused
the destruction of the three towers on 9-11.
Fragments of the nano-composite explosive were analyzed by an international
team of nine scientists and the evidence presented in a peer-reviewed paper in March 2009.
Fragments of the highly explosive super-Thermite found in the dust of the World Trade Center.
The discovery of super-Thermite in the dust exposes the government-funded
reports as fabrications created to conceal the explosive demolition
of the Twin Towers and WTC 7.
The 9-11 reports produced by the federal agencies FEMA and NIST were
written to mislead the public and media about what really happened to the
buildings ?” and the thousands of people trapped within them.
This is to say that the U.S. government and controlled media have
intentionally deceived the public for eight years.
The highest officials of the Obama administration have the evidence discussed in the
Jones paper but have ignored the discovery of super-Thermite
in the rubble and refuse to discuss the evidence of explosions in the
towers on 9-11.
On May 18, 2009, U.S. Vice President Joseph Biden was personally given a
copy of the 25-page Jones paper during a visit to Los Angeles and asked
about the administration’s position on the need for an investigation in
light of this discovery.
Biden refused to answer the journalist’s questions, but took the paper and immediately left the event.
The government and the controlled media claim that the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center collapsed
due to fires caused by the crashes of the two airplanes that hit them.
It needs to be clearly understood that the evidence presented in the Jones
paper completely disproves the government claims about what
happened on 9-11.
The publication of the evidence of super-Thermite in early 2009
marked the end of the government version as an acceptable explanation for
the events of 9-11.
It exposes the official version to be nothing but a pack of lies used to
start the Israeli-designed
“War on Terror” ?” and a very real war of aggression in Afghanistan.
OUR POLITICAL PREDICAMENT
The evidence of super-Thermite in the dust of the pulverized Twin Towers
puts every American in the unpleasant position of having to decide what
to believe about 9-11 and the war in Afghanistan.
If the evidence of the extremely powerful nano-composite explosive in the dust is correct,
as it certainly appears to be, it would mean that the Obama administration,
members of Congress, and the media are intentionally deceiving the American
people about what happened on 9-11.
This deception, which began on 9-11, was used to send U.S. forces to
invade and occupy Afghanistan.
If this is the case, the officials engaged in this deception are
committing high crimes and treason.
This is clearly an unacceptable situation that cannot be tolerated.
The officials who are supporting the deception about 9-11 and the wars of
aggression in Afghanistan and Iraq need to be removed from office and
held accountable for their actions and crimes.
This is the political predicament that faces every American citizen today.
Although this dilemma is most acute in the United States,
other nations face similar predicaments.
Some forty nations are involved in the U.S.-led occupation of Afghanistan
and in each of them the public has been deceived about the real reasons
for the war.
One can almost gauge the degree to which a nation is Zionist-controlled
by the number of troops it has sent to Afghanistan.
The United States and Britain have sent the largest contingents,
followed by Germany, France, Canada, Italy, Poland, the Netherlands,
and Romania.
TYRANNY OF LIES
When Joe Wilson, a Republican representative from
South Carolina, shouted, “You lie,” during President Barack Obama’s
recent speech to Congress about healthcare on September 9, 2009,
it was a perfect example of the expression,
“the pot calling the kettle black.” Rep. Joe Wilson has been deceiving
the American people about the real reasons for the war in
Afghanistan since 2001.
As a member of the House Committee on Armed Services and the
Committee on Foreign Affairs, Wilson has access to highest level
intelligence and cannot claim ignorance as an excuse for the lies
he tells the public.
In an interview with Greg Corombos of Radio America on
September 21, 2009, Representative Joe Wilson repeated, once again,
the fundamental deception about 9-11 and the war in Afghanistan:
We know that September the 11th, the attacks on New York, Pennsylvania,
and Washington, were directed from a valley in Afghanistan.
We should not have to learn that again.
What we are doing is truly protecting the American
people by providing for a stable government in Pak? in Afghanistan.
About the war in Afghanistan, Wilson repeated the lie he has been
telling for years, using the word “truly,” as he often does.
“This is truly an issue of protecting American families at home by
defeating the terrorists overseas,” he said.
If Wilson is correct about 9-11 being “directed from a
valley in Afghanistan” it would mean that Osama Bin Laden
and Al Qaida terrorists managed to place many tons of a very
sophisticated explosive film of nano-Thermite in the
Twin Towers before they were demolished.
This would mean that Bin Laden, working from a cave in Afghanistan,
one of the poorest nations in the world, had access to state-of-the-art
nanotechnology and the wherewithal to secretly apply the super-Thermite
and other explosives to the surfaces and core columns of the
well-guarded towers in New York City.
Like all other supporters of the government deception about 9-11,
Wilson can only make such absurd and incredible statements by
completely ignoring the scientific evidence of super-Thermite
in the dust of the pulverized Twin Towers.
It should be noted that most members of Congress support the false claims
articulated by Rep. Joe Wilson.
Blaming Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaida for 9-11 was evidently
the master plan behind the false-flag terror attacks.
The corrupt government officials and the controlled media
cannot address the evidence of super-Thermite presented by
Dr. Jones because that would expose the pack of lies about
9-11 and the war in Afghanistan,
a deception they have supported for eight years.
The first response to 9-11 by the administration of
George W. Bush was the military invasion and occupation of Afghanistan.
This indicates that invading Afghanistan was the real reason
for the terror atrocities that ushered in the Zionist-designed
fraud known as the “War on Terror.”
That is to say that thousands of Americans were
killed on 9-11 to provide an
excuse to invade and occupy Afghanistan.
WHY AFGHANISTAN?
The administrations of George W. Bush and Barack Hussein Obama II
are Zionist-dominated and controlled governments.
Rahm Emanuel, for example, the Chief-of-Staff of the Obama White House,
is actually an Israeli citizen and the son of a Zionist terrorist
from the Irgun, the most radical terror gang in Palestine during the 1930s and 1940s.
The Zionist influence in these administrations can easily
be seen by the placement of pro-Israel agents in
different positions at every level.
Israeli influence within the U.S. military and
intelligence spheres is as extensive and deep as it
is within the Oval Office.
Israeli military intelligence has a great deal of influence in
every sphere of the U.S. government which is involved in making
the decisions that go into taking the United States to war.
That the U.S. government would accept Israeli intelligence on
the Middle East from a state that has been at war with nearly every other nation in the region
since 1948 is clearly an absurd and biased situation but
that is how it is.
This is how the United States was
taken to war in Afghanistan in October 2001 ?” and why we are still there.
Although no group claimed responsibility for the attacks,
Israeli political and military leaders were well prepared to
immediately interpret the meaning of 9-11 and spoke to the mass media
with one voice.
On the very day of the attacks, for example, Shabtai Shavit,
the former head of Israel’s Mossad, said: “The attacks
symbolize the conflict between extremist Islam versus the Western democracies.”
The Mossad then provided fabricated evidence to
support its claims via its agents in the U.S. government, such as
Assistant Attorney General Michael Chertoff,
the key official in the cover-up of 9-11.
The Israeli politicians Benjamin Netanyahu and
Ehud Barak were the very first people to blame Osama Bin Laden
for 9-11 and call for military action against the Taliban-led
regime in Afghanistan.
They used the terror attacks and the controlled media to begin
the Zionist fraud known as
the “War on Terror,” an
Israeli military strategy long promoted by “Bibi” Netanyahu.
Israel’s current Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu and
Defense Minister Ehud Barak called for U.S. military action against
Afghanistan immediately after 9-11.
On 9-11, Ehud Barak, the former
Israeli prime/defense minister/military intelligence chief,
was the first person to call for the U.S. to attack Afghanistan.
Barak told Rupert Murdoch’s Sky Television in London that
Western governments needed to make a concerted effort to combat
terrorism: “Most obviously my guess is a bin Laden organization…
We have to stand firm against such terrorism,” Barak said.
“We have to coordinate to launch the same kind of fight that
our forefathers gave to the fight against piracy on the high seas –
mainly terrorists should not be allowed to land at any port or airport,”
Barak said. “The leadership of the world should be able to take action.
It is time for action. The world is not going to be the same place
as before,” he said.
“Bin Laden sits in Afghanistan,”
Barak said on 9-11. “We know where the terror sites are.
It’s time for action.”
When Barak specifically called for military action against Afghanistan,
he was speaking for Israel’s military intelligence establishment,
an organization he has headed for many years.
Barak is Israel’s current minister of defense and has been at the
top of Israel’s military intelligence organization for several decades.
He was head of Israel’s Military Intelligence Directorate
(AMAN 1983-1985), head of Central Command (1986 – 1987),
and Deputy Chief of the General Staff (1987-1991).
He was Chief of the General Staff between April 1, 1991 and
January 1, 1995.
Barak went on to serve as Minister of the Interior (1995)
and Minister of Foreign Affairs (1995-1996).
He was elected to the Knesset in 1996, where he served as a
member of the Israeli government’s committees on foreign affairs and defense.
In 1996, he became the leader of the Labor Party and was
elected to be prime minister in May 1999.
He served as prime minister until early 2001,
when he went into business, primarily in the United States.
An article in the Israeli press entitled “Ehud Barak Ltd.”
discussed some of the people involved with Barak’s business
dealings and his penchant for secrecy: “None of them really has the
whole picture of Barak’s business dealings – in business,
as in politics, his policy is
strict compartmentalization and secrecy.”
Why would Ehud Barak, the most senior member of
Israel’s military intelligence establishment, call for the U.S.
to invade Afghanistan before any investigation of the
terror crimes of 9-11 had even begun? How would Israel benefit
from a U.S.-led invasion and occupation of Afghanistan?
As Robert Anton Wilson said, “Every war results from the
struggle for markets and spheres of influence.”
The war in Afghanistan is certainly no different.
The Israelis are determined to use their influence in the
United States to advance their interests and influence in Central Asia
while limiting those of Russia and Iran.
Following the break-up of the Soviet Union,
Israeli agents sought to gain control of the strategic assets of
the newly independent Soviet republics. In mineral-rich Turkmenistan,
a Mossad agent named Yosef A. Maiman was very successful
in gaining control of the republic’s immense resources
of natural gas.
Yosef Maiman, born in Germany in 1946, grew up in
Peru and studied in the United States before becoming an Israeli citizen in 1971.
As an agent of Israeli intelligence, Maiman heads a network of
Mossad-controlled companies that serve Israeli interests.
As the chief executive of the Merhav Group,
Maiman has long controlled the development of Turmenistan’s gas resources,
which are considered to be second only to Russia’s.
Maiman’s key colleagues at Merhav are the former head of the
Mossad, Shabtai Shavit, and Nimrod Novik, chief adviser to
Shimon Peres, the current president of Israel.
Mossad agent Yosef A. Maiman
controls the gas resources of Turkmenistan.
Maiman was described as “a leading miner” of Central
Asian gas fields by the Jerusalem Post in 2004.
Given the fact that he controls the immense gas resources of
Turkmenistan, the Israeli Maiman, his Merhav company,
and his fellow Mossadniks would all profit immensely —
if and when the U.S.-led coalition were able to “pacify” and
control Afghanistan so that the Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India (TAPI)
gas pipeline could be built allowing the gas of Turkmenistan to be sold to energy-hungry India.
The TAPI pipeline project would bring billions of dollars into
Mossad coffers every year.
This is the real reason for the war in Afghanistan and why the
Zionist-controlled Obama administration has increased the
war effort in Central Asia.
It really has nothing to do with “Islamic terrorism” or 9-11.
The Merhav Group is a private company. Maiman is president
and chairman of the board.
He is also chairman of Ampal-American Israel Corporation,
Israel’s Channel 10 (which he owns with Ron Lauder,
Rupert Murdoch, and Arnon Milchen), Gadot Chemical Tankers and Terminals Ltd.,
and Arnon Milchen’s agro-chemical company, Milchen Brothers Ltd.
Maiman’s Merhav Group is a
Mossad-controlled network of companies.
Maiman’s network reveals the Mossad-controlled companies
linked to 9-11 and the war in Afghanistan.
Maiman, for example, is an owner and director of Eltek, Ltd.
an Israeli manufacturer of printed circuit boards,
along with Eytan Barak.
Barak is also a director of ICTS International N.V.,
the Israeli aviation security company that owns Huntleigh USA,
the passenger screening company directly involved with the
planes and passenger screening operations on 9-11.
Barak is a director of ICTS, a member of the supervisory board, audit
committee, and compensation committee. Huntleigh is a
key defendant in the 9-11 tort litigation but the
Mossad-owned company has been protected by the Zionist
Alvin K. Hellerstein, the U.S. District Judge who has prevented any
9-11 trial from finding those responsible for the terror
atrocity that changed the world.
Bollyn
Yeah, why don’t you just end the thread with some Jooooo hatred? And from Christopher Bollyn, a criminal on the run.
Stay classy truthers.
http://www.firehouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107457
Where’d you copy this from?
This is all insane …
but your last point (17) is just insane.
It’s all insane. Therefore I have debunked it.
yes, it’s insane to think that Wesley Clark and Louis Freeh believe that 911 was an inside job.
Anyone can quote-mine. You, dreoilin, demonstrated this above. You’re obviously a person of limited intelligence, but you managed to quote-mine Angrysoba above.
It takes just a bit more intelligence to understand nuance and to hold competing thoughts in your head.
btw here’s your own tea party:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp9oE_ElP1I&feature=player_embedded
Larry: I think you were going to provide us with the evidence upon which you have arrived at you own view on 911. Any reason for the delay?
The End is in the Beginning.
Larry,
It is time you and other Americans like you start seeing the bigger picture and there is a real need for you to start stepping away from your ego driven nationalism and total ignorance as witnessed on this blog where many questions asked of you just fail to enter your consciousness.
I have been inspired by the good work of American David Swanson who wants to change America, willing to even to take a peaceful fight to the streets and march on the Capital. The American way of life post 9/11 has been destroyed and this is my ‘heads up’ to you. Don’t be a mouse learning to be rat, become part of a new future for America.
Get a grip Larry instead of obeying your masters to continally cause confusion using a fog of mindless accusations.
PNAC is not dead – it is on the back burner while scenarios are worked out and tested. Lies are difficult to float because of the Internet and bloggers, therefore careful planning is essential. The Neo-cons have not finished their work and many scenarios exist to provide an excuse to attack Iran and light-up an enormous fire against Islam that they hope will trigger WW4.
The psychological effect of 9/11 is wearing off in America and despite threat levels at ‘severe’ and the efforts of your masters Larry, the American people are becoming unconcerned about another ‘terror’ attack, so about time to murder more Americans and keep criminals like Michael DeLong happy.
Another conspiracy Larry? Well forever in my mind is the true story by buddy human rights lawyer Phillippe Sands when she exposed the plot discussed by Bush and Blair to provoke an attack on Iraq by ‘painting planes in United Nations colours’ an American spyplane was proposed to lure Saddam into war.
Change your tactics or tell your boss that you are not smart enough to damage the 911 truth movement and quit your job.
Mark, the 911 troofer movement has failed. The Roswell hoax attracts far, far more followers.
“I have been inspired by the good work of American David Swanson who wants to change America, willing to even to take a peaceful fight to the streets and march on the Capital.”
“Capitol” or “capital”. Not “Capital”.
It takes a troll to pick on grammar, spelling, etc, when they can’t think of anything better to say.
The End is not nigh!
18 Mar 2010
“In a letter obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), the 9/11 Commission was refused permission to question terror suspects, with the Bush administration arguing that by doing so the panel would “cross” a “line” and obstruct the administration’s efforts to protect the nation.
Citing the need to “Safeguard the national security, including protection of Americans from future terrorist attacks,” the government officials demanded the Commission not make further attempts at conducting a deeper probe into the September 11 terror attacks.”
Now ain’t that interesting. I’m off to the ACLU to see if I can find that letter.
Beyond the End, there is No End
Dreoilin,
ACLU letter
http://www.aclu.org/files/assets/CIA.pdf
!There is life after death!
Even on this thread.
Thanks Mark!
Where are the Larries? Are they being rolled-over by some miscellaneous Muslim or other? St Louis – and Osaka – are full of such miscellaneous Muslims, just waiting to roll over the Larries.
They has run away cuz they they R afraid ov us.
dreoilin, Afraid of British/Irish people being manipulated by the American right wing to believe their nutjob conspiracy theory? Even Michael Moore couldn’t believe in any of your stupidity. I hardly think that you’re anything to fear.
Dammit, spoke too soon.
“!There is life after death!”
Bummer – no escape then? But the *really* bad news is that some infinities are bigger than others. There is an infinity of integers and an infinity of real numbers – but (wait for it) – there are more real numbers than integers.
So this thread could on forever, and then some.
http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/scepticism/drasin.html
Scroll down to ‘How to debunk just about anything’
What is worth investigating Larry is the lack of coordination in your neurons
that makes you oblivious of the extremely volatile man-made particles
found in G0 dust from a number of locations,
kept honestly in bags by honest people willing to put their name to the
samples and which cannot have been derived
from existing material used in the buildings.
Nobody has ‘debunked’ this smoking evidence that eventually will
burst into flames and
singe the hairs on your back when the terrible truth of this
catastrophic event eventually seeps into the consciousness
of those like you who refuse
to contemplate the catalytic, preplanned
nature of this abomination.
?It takes a troll to pick on grammar, spelling, etc, when they can’t think of anything better to say.?
Is that what you told your English teacher?
?There is an infinity of integers and an infinity of real numbers – but (wait for it) – there are more real numbers than integers.?
Yes, and there are only half as many even numbers as cardinal numbers yet the sets of both are infinite. Paradox! End of the World!
?Nobody has ‘debunked’ this smoking evidence that eventually will
burst into flames and
singe the hairs on your back when the terrible truth of this
catastrophic event eventually seeps into the consciousness
of those like you who refuse
to contemplate the catalytic, preplanned
nature of this abomination.?
Homer Simpson to his trampoline: ?You may have one this time, but one day you will rust, rust, RUST! AAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahaha!?
Honestly, your Scooby Doo detective antics are amusing. But it isn?t really serious politics is it?
?You may have one this time, but one day you will rust, rust, RUST!”
What does that mean?
“What does that mean?”
one=won
Troll!
“What does that mean?”
“one=won”
Ahh … I don’t watch the Simpsons. Or “Scooby Doo”. My sons used to, when they were younger.
dreoilin, so you continue to spew the worst truther bullshit, after earlier telling people that you were just a fence sitter. You’re a liar.
Only a sick person like yourself would continue to exploit the tragedy of the death of Barbara Olson.