US and UK soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq are killing Muslims using guns with optical sights marked with Christian Gospel references, manufactured by Trijicon, an avowedly Christian Evangelical company in the US, which in the past also supplied South African special forces in breach of the international anti-apartheid embargo. Trijicon’s website states:
We believe that America is great when its people are good. This goodness has been based on biblical standards throughout our history and we will strive to follow those morals.
http://www.trijicon.com/about.cfm
Peculiarly, having read the Gospels many times, I can’t recall Jesus advocating shooting people from a great distance.
Al Jazeera TV showed pictures today of Muslim Afghan commandos involved in fighting the Taliban in Kabul this week, carrying weapons inscribed with the Christian messages. This is highly reminiscent of the belief that bullet cartridges were greased with pig and cow grease, that was a major factor in leading British Indian troops to mutiny in 1857.
It is hard to imagine anything more calculated to upset Musim opinion, and is a vital reminder of exactly what kind of US nutters Blair allied us with.
Jon: I haven’t heard the speech yet, looking forward to catching up with it on the weekend. What is surprising is that things collapsed so quickly once the act was repealed. This was a republican initiative, of course, but it was signed into law by Clinton. He might have been the best republican president the US ever had, but did a lot of damage with GATT, NAFTA and so on. One could argue we’ve handed over our sovereignty to multinational corporations, and for all the frothing the right-wing does about sovereignty when it comes to the UN (or the EU for that matter), this doesn’t seem to concern them.
Clinton ran as a progressive but then governed like a republican… I wonder if Obama is going to carry on doing the same, or if he realises at last that failing to be progressive is going to lose elections as well as ruin the economy.
Arsalan – “I think it doesn’t make much of a difference to Muslims what the guns that kill us are marked with.”
I take your point, and could hardly disagree, but I think Craig’s point was more about the people on the other end of the trigger, the local forces being equipped with US weapons to fight against other local forces.
@Larry 2:06
For once Larry I totally agree with one of your posts. Those scammers selling totally ineffective ‘sniffers’ deserve to be prosecuted not just for fraud but for endangering the lives of everyone fooled into using them.
I’ll skip on the homeopathic mood enhancer though because homeopathy is bollocks too.
Unity has a full analysis of the ‘sniffers’ at http://tiny.cc/7PXp5
Larry,
Apart from the seriousness of the issue, flogging 1,500 telescopic antennas on a molded plastic handle (est cost £150) for £52.7 million has got to be one of the best Scouse scams ever.
They will be pissing themselves laughing in Liverpool.
I am of course jumping to conclusions, but he is reported to be a former Merseyside police officer.
Surely the buyer wasn’t a Yank?
Tony
The lunacy beggars belief. It’s an apt parallel, Craig: 1857 and 2010 – The Gun Speaketh Volumes.
Suhayl Saadi and Craig Murray:
There is a parallel to the 1857 mutiny? Hah! Almost as funny as your commenters’ belief that 911 was an inside job!
You should read up on the multiple causes of the mutiny.
In any event, when can we expect the 2010 mutiny to occur? Soon? I’m sure you’re waiting with gleeful anticipation.
Larry,
What makes you think that anyone here believes that 9/11 was an inside job?
“Mineta responds to an opening question by Commissioner Hamilton about the events in the PEOC and an alleged shoot down order. He describes a conversation between Cheney and a young man:
Mineta: “During the time that the airplane was coming into the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President…the plane is 50 miles out…the plane is 30 miles out….and when it got down to the plane is 10 miles out, the young man also said to the vice president “do the orders still stand?” And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said “Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary!??”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDfdOwt2v3Y
Now of course you can make of this evidence what you want.
What is indisputable is that Cheney was there in control – what time does he normally get out of bed?
Was Cheney insisting that the plane should be shot down?
Or did he whip his neck around, because the young man couldn’t believe, that the order still stood to not shoot it down?
Tony
I wasn’t even planning on someone to jump on that.
That stupid claim has been answered over and over again.
Or you could look at the undamaged windows here and the size of the hole consistent with a missile attack, but not consistent with a Boeing 757
Just look at the last photo in this link, you don’t even have to read the words
http://911review.org/Wget/investigate911.batcave.net/pentagon1.html
Where exactly is the plane wreckage?
Sorry, but you did ask.
Tony
2003 called. It wants its conspiracy back.
Yes, there are pictures of the Pentagon without an airplane apparent. But there are plenty of pictures with an airplane apparent.
And there are stacks and stacks of other evidence.
Tony, you do understand the concept of DNA, don’t you?
Or there’s the psychological point of view…
You go to a pub you have hardly ever been to before, to see a band, cos the Guv wants some new customers.
It is only a small bar, and there is this enormous hells angel asleep all over it who obviously doesn’t like happy music.
He is covered in Swasticas and every Evil image of Blood and Destruction You Can Think Of.
If you are a little 14 stone weakling, do you go up to him and slap him in the face – and tell him to wake up – cos he is occupying 50% of the bar – and appears just like a piece of dead meat…
Because if you do, he will wake up and become incredibly angry and do his best to kill you.
I didn’t slap him in the face by the way, but he did think I was being rather rude to him.
And anyway he didn’t connect, cos his mates jumped on him – they saw it coming.
Tony
Larry,
As it happens I have read pretty well every book ever published on the mutiny, and hundreds of articles. I also have read through the 4 thick volumes of correspondence published by the official inquiry. I even have my own copies.
Of course there were numerous underlying causes. But the cartridge row was a major catalyst.
Larry,
I am sure the authorities have your DNA, because you are an obviously dodgy character – and have almost certainly been arrested – even though you didn’t do it.
But the vast majority of the innocent passengers who allegedly were on the plane that hit the Pentagon, probably had never been arrested for anything, and no one had ever recorded their DNA – particularly in 2001
So how exactly were they positively identified by their DNA? What did they match the blood samples with, when they couldn’t even find a decent bit of bent plane let alone a body?
I mean, I know some people will believe any shit that is fed to them, but that is simply because they are stupid bastards.
Sorry, I don’t mean you of course.
I do realise you are a covert truther, just winding me up on a Friday night when it is normal for me to be pissed and extremely vulnerable to interrogation.
Tony
“But the vast majority of the innocent passengers who allegedly were on the plane that hit the Pentagon, probably had never been arrested for anything, and no one had ever recorded their DNA – particularly in 2001
So how exactly were they positively identified by their DNA? What did they match the blood samples with, when they couldn’t even find a decent bit of bent plane let alone a body?”
Yep, there it is folks! Troofer logic!
Tony, to identify a body, you don’t need DNA on record. For instance, you can use the DNA of a person’s relatives (also, ever heard of mitochondrial DNA?). Also, we also have DNA at home for forensics professionals to find.
If you think that the remains of plane and passengers were not found at the Pentagon, it’s clear that you only read conspiraloon websites.
Also – here’s another example of the conspiraloon approach – you think you’re one of the few people who can actually see the light!
You’re really quite silly. Educate yourself, and try to stay away from conspiraloon sites.
O.K. Larry – I will give you that one.
In fact DNA is almost completely useless at proving anything, but absolutely great at planting “evidence”
For example you want to plan the perfect murder on someone…
All you need to do is break into his home when he is out – and that is exceedingly easy if you are a locksmith or know one (untraceably)
And go to his bathroom
There will an enormous volume of his DNA to collect from the drain hole in his bath or shower…
You then do your evil deed, and spread his DNA all over the crime scene…
So why the Fuck did the Police arrest my 15 year old daughter?
She had done absolutely nothing wrong, and I want her DNA removed from their Database. It is an outrageous infringement of her human rights.
Tony
I’m not interested in fractious and inelegant diversionary activity. I was simply endorsing Craig’s comment about the imagistic quasi-religious similarities that run through colonialism, the tactics which mutate but which never really change.
Btw, I know all about the complexities of the First Indian War of Independence (the so-called ‘Mutiny’). My great-grandfather was shot in the head by the British during a demo circa 1857 and miraculously lived, hail and hearty, until 1941, to the age of 99, to tell the tale! His father was hung in public by the British Empire for participating in the same demo. The other side of my family were Afghan aristocrats and were centrally involved – on the side of the British! – in the 1st Afghan War and the well-known journeys of the koh-i-noor diamond. Unfortunately for him, the ex-ruler of Afghanistan, Shah Shuja (who unwisely had tried to regain his throne in 1839-42 by siding with the British Empire), was assasinated in Kabul in the debacle that was the 1st Afghan War. Only a single (according to legend and the famous painting, I think a certain Scottish Doctor Brown) – well, in truth only a few – British soldiers survived that war. My grandfather fought on the Burma Front in WWII as Adjutant to General William Slim, who arguably was the finest Allied commander of WWII. I am anti-imperialist and recognise that the Taliban et al, whose world-view I despise and who I see as the Khymer Rouge of Central Asia, like the Khymer Rouge, are largely products of unending imperial wars. I really do not require any lessons in the complexities of history.
Larry seems to have changed a lot since he’s been posting here…
So when can we expect a mutiny?
Anyone got a proper picture of a jumbo jet hitting the Pentagon? The whole area was festooned with cameras, so surely there’s a decent still somewhere? Anyone? Better still, a reasonable quality moving picture.
I think Tony was wondering how you get DNA from a crash-site when no body-parts were apparent. Testing supposed relatives is a rather pointless exercise when the dead person’s remains aren’t there.
ok, if that’s a bit too hard, how about a picture of the crashed plane – we all know what these terrible scenes look like, lots of bits of planes, seats, luggage all over the place. Would someone be so kind as to reference one? From the Pentagon and the Pennsylvania crash sites, please.
And let’s keep it civil for once – nothing is gained here by screaming “loon” etc. at anyone doubting the official side. And I won’t call those believing the official story goose-stepping True Believers, slavish followers of Bush’s lies, closed-minded ditto-heads and so on either – deal?
tony are you talking about your daughter’s vagina now?
A mutiny…? On the Bounty, Mister Christian, on the Bounty! Cast anchor!
How typical of Larry. Any stupid remark designed to provoke.
Tony, I always thought technicolour was NUJ.
But of course it’s just an impression I got.
You Are to Global Warming Denier
Who is Drawing on
American Right-wing Conspiracies from 2004
And You Seem a Little Nuts
Perhaps Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Larry accuses tony_opmoc of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, in an admittedly amusing imitation of Tony’s late night posts.
However, the most basic pass at NPD defines it thus:
—start def
Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder defined by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, the diagnostic classification system used in the United States, as “a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and a lack of empathy.”
—end def
Does Tony sound like he’s talking in grandiose terms of himself, requiring anyone to admire him, or demonstrating a failure to empathise?
I’d say definitely not on any count. Other things perhaps, but definitely not NCD. So why toss out that slur?
Whatever labels people want to hang round his neck, I wish he’d get a grip. Need to know, and all that.
Glenn wrote this: Well- any answer?
=============
Anyone got a proper picture of a jumbo jet hitting the Pentagon? The whole area was festooned with cameras, so surely there’s a decent still somewhere? Anyone? Better still, a reasonable quality moving picture.
I think Tony was wondering how you get DNA from a crash-site when no body-parts were apparent. Testing supposed relatives is a rather pointless exercise when the dead person’s remains aren’t there.
ok, if that’s a bit too hard, how about a picture of the crashed plane – we all know what these terrible scenes look like, lots of bits of planes, seats, luggage all over the place. Would someone be so kind as to reference one? From the Pentagon and the Pennsylvania crash sites, please.
And let’s keep it civil for once – nothing is gained here by screaming “loon” etc. at anyone doubting the official side. And I won’t call those believing the official story goose-stepping True Believers, slavish followers of Bush’s lies, closed-minded ditto-heads and so on either – deal?
Suhayl
I wish that I had your historical knowledge. As a Muslim revert, or apne English, as I heard myself called in my street, I am an outsider to your heritage and a mere observer of Muslim culture.
From my observations, I venture to disagree with you about the Taliban.
I see justifiable outrage written in the hearts of all Muslims at the Iraq-like trauma of British colonial rule. Our brash and uninhibited culture, as in the commments above, pierced the deepest sensitivities of Islamic culture, as it has done in Iraq. It’s deeply insulting to many Muslims even to remind them of the atrocities of colonial rule. That’s a universal feeling after being subjected to the torture of occupation.
Words written on guns are irrelevant compared with the realities of foreign invasion. Even the war of words, as Craig points out, when they call us insurgents ” where did they surge in from, precisely? ” is easier to bear than the deliberate humiliation perpetrated by Crusader forces. Humiliation is a strategy of war. Look at the evangelical websites urging people to adopt and convert the orphans of Iraq. Their attitude is an attack against our faith. Allah states in the Qur’an, something to the effect that they hated Him first.
On the other hand the Taliban are directing their efforts against Islamic corruption. I use the word Islam-ic on purpose, because there is Islam and everything which ends in -ic is usually just a photocopy. Their target is un-Islamic practise, corruption in Muslim societies, the oppression of the weak and the inability of the weak to defy the will of the powerful ” Muslims” higher up the food chain. This is not just a rich/poor issue. Rich people are even more susceptible to bullying through corruption than the poor.
The worst thing you can do to a Muslim society is to fuel corruption with cash. Afghanistan is awash with cash and the corruption gets stronger. The West has demonstrated that it is prepared to condone corruption, because corruption is what devastates the Justice which is the meaning of Islam.
Taliban is for the re-instatement of Islam as a cure for the otherwise incurable disease of corruption. They are targeted at the internal destructive forces which are have resulted from foreign interference with the harmony of Muslim life.
You go to the doctor with bad knees, they tell you to lose weight. Later you may need an operation. First you have to practise your religion. Later you have to fight for it against the disbelievers who want to destroy it completely.
I come from a priveledged British background and I am now extremely poor. Islam changes priorities. Corruption sometimes means the priveledges I enjoy over others. Not easy, to be sure.
Suhayl something you said got me thinking?
Do you know what strikes me about the first Afghan war and what is happening now?
Opium.
Everyone seems to think Opium was the consequence of this Afghan War, but if history is anything to go by, could it be part of its purpose?
What I mean is the first Afghan war happened at the same time as the opium wars in China.
Then like now, everyone used to buy a lot from China, but the Chinese didn’t buy anything from anyone. Then like now it meant the western powers had to buy with cold hard cash(silver at the time, $ today). Then like now that caused problems for the western powers, and they were and now are running out of money.
Since the war the only thing that has been obtained from Afghanistan is opium. It was almost eradicated by the Taliban, and ever since it has increased to record levels.
It is well known that the CIA imported/imports cocaine from latin America in to the US for funds, so why not export Opium from Afghanistan in to China?
They are unable to sell them anything else, and opium production is the only thing the invasion has managed to improve.
anno
I am really poor just like you, but my wife is really rich. The reason why I am able to marry someone who is really rich inspite of being really poor is because I am really good looking.
Anyway my point is stay away from rich women, something goes wrong with their heads when they earn too much which results in them nagging too much.
Arsalan
In general, the rules of Islam contradict the favourite occupations of the Crusaders, polytheists and hypocrites.
Your wife doesn’t need to be rich in order to cause you problems. My first wife stole everything I had by devious means I’m still trying to figure out how to this day. A true, blue colonial power whose ancestors carried the bible to New Zealand. When the missionaries arrived they had the book and the natives had the land. After a short period of time the missionaries had the land and the natives had the book.
As for the deviousness of our government, what they want to do, let them do. I think they are quite capable of repeating their opium wars on China. They’re totally terrified of losing their economic supremacy. Muslim countries like Malaysia are still struggling desperately with heroine addiction. This has been achieved by Western modernisation of the Muslim society, which equalises the role of the sexes and undermines Islam’s patriarchal foundation.
It’s the broken society that abuses their children, not the strong society. The West displays its weakness by resorting to abuse. Will it survive feminism? Under feminism we in the UK have changed our God from Christian patriarchal decency to LYING. Every day I find that every body is worshipping the God of LYING with even more dedication than I give to Allah, my Lord. Lakum deenukum wa liyaddeen. For you is your religion, and for me is mine.
By all means make your wife your banker, but don’t make her your manager, is my advice to a fellow Muslim
“Muslim countries like Malaysia are still struggling desperately with heroine addiction”
Ah, yes, the film industry has a lot to answer for.