The Daily Telegraph let slip a most revealing fact:
“the BBC insisted that the play not be uncritical”,
The BBC was not insisting that the play be not uncriticial of a New Labour government which agreed to use intelligence from terrible torture in Uzbekistan, and cooperated with torture worldwide in the extraordinary rendition programme.
The BBC was in fact concerned that those facts were not given too much prominence compared to diversionary criticism of me for not being a teetotal monogamist, which is of course much worse than being a warmongering torturing murderous bastard.
Nadira was wondering when the media would stop calling her a lap dancer, when they would start using her married name, or mentioning her acting achievements (including the fact that she plays multiple characters in David Hare’s adaptation of Murder in Samarkand for Radio 4, in four different languages).
The answer I fear is never, not even in the Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2010/feb/02/david-tennant-samarkand-radio-4
nor in the EDP
I will say however that I think David Hare had done a tremendous job and produced an excellent play which is both entertaining and profound. As I gather is usual for David, he did a tremendous amount of research, even travelling to Tashkent to interview eye witnesses as well as holding a meeting with the FCO to get their side of the story. I am actually quite relieved that the production does not simply rely on my word for the key events.
Please do publicise the broadcast by whatever means are at your disposal.
I just watched deer hunter, it was rubbish. Not many deers got shot. And it didn’t show people cooking the meat and eating them.
It just showed people playing Russian rullet.
Mel Gibson Blew Me Away With His New Film Edge of Darkness
I Only went To See It, Because They Wouldn’t Even Let Him Promote It or Even Speak About It
I Have got a Daughter Too
Go and See The Film
It is Brilliant at Several Different Levels
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1226273/
And Yes She Does Too
Tony
All we can do as Parents is To Try and Give Our Children All our Love and Encouragement, and The Confidence, That Our Home is Always Welcome To All Their Friends Too.
And So With This
They Suddenly Realise
That They Can FLY
And Achieve ANYTHING They want to and sometimes they crash and don’t get burned cos they walk away from the wreckage
And do it all again except even MORE
I reckon there is a Fair Chance That We Have All Only Got One Life
So Fucking Go For It
There is No Point Waiting For The Starting Gun
Tony
And so all the kids got home, safe and warm, and I was so pleased to see them.
But, later today they are all going their seperate ways – back to Universities all over The UK
I said – well you can try and phone him in the morning – he is an Auto-Electrician – but it is exceedingly difficult to fix intermittent Electrical Faults – And He is a Jehovar’s Witness – and I’m not sure if They Do Sundays
Apparently The RAC were left in Peace – and They Never Even Phoned Them
Tony
Possibly relevant book review here: tinyurl.com/bible
Containing this paragraph…
“It is here in this world without a personal god who can be shared that we find ourselves trapped in the nature of shared opinion. Each of is liable to be captured and brain-washed in mass hysteria by mobs enthused with religious doctrines, mobs that relieve us of the need to reflect on any question – political, social, or personal. As members of congregations and audiences we happily give up our freedom of thought for the comfort of conformity, becoming puppets controlled by ventriloquists.”
…and this…
“Any book that has to be interpreted must be avoided.”
Arsalan: “I do not think I am anything like a Zionist if I call for lands and houses to be returned to the people who own them.”
No, but you are if you advocate or excuse lethal violence against a pre-defined group to achieve your goals. You haven’t addressed that issue here, but it seems to be what your earlier polemics were encouraging.
I’d like to be reassured that you don’t cheer when a bomb goes off in an Israeli market, killing and wounding civilians. Hopefully you view the agony and distress caused with a heavy heart and feel aggrieved. Perhaps you already have some insight into how such events arelinked to their defensive nationalist mindset. Because the Israeli aggressors are also thinking that the Palestinian terrorists and their supporters are irredeemably evil and twisted, and conclude that they ought to be violently suppressed and weakened. (Zionism + fortress mentality = dangerously aggressive state.)
The crucial element that perpetrators worldwide and their supporters have in common is ‘Them & Us’ thinking: identify good and wholesome characteristics with your own group and smear the opposition with an evil essence; then you can legitimise any atrocity that would infuriate you if committed against your own group. The stereotype of the evil ‘Other’ hides all the good and wholesome people on the other side who you impugn and seek to destroy.
It’s a multi-purpose rationale, used by all sides to justify their aggression. Just plug in a different set of values and the turret turns wherever you want. Be it Apartheid or the ANC, Israelis or Hamas/PLO, the IRA or Loyalists, LRU, Zapatistas, Judean People’s Front, whatever. That kind of divisive moral mindset has been used to justify indiscriminate killings the world over. The US has refined its persuasive techniques and are mass-marketing fear of the ‘bogeymen’ to their population.
My worry is that I detect similar logic in some of the ant–Zionist messages here, and even though I agree with the moral foundation, I dig in the heels when I see what it leads to. The anti-thievery explanation is unobjectionable; but the virulent anti-Israeli rhetoric built around it is not.
As a child I was also taught to despise a particular group for racial/religious/historical-landgrabbing reasons, with a clear moral rationale, and was even well trained in armed conflict. I transcended that mindset. I’ve also witnessed some developments that are quite remarkable, where fear, anger and hostility have been replaced by positive attitudes that improved the lives of all those involved. I gave up a sizeable estate and homestead to the ‘other side’ without complaint or compensation, but not because of some faux ‘birthright’ philosophy. Once the barrier was down it was no longer a transfer from one side to another. That’s the key.
I’d far rather you hate the barrier than the opposition. Because if you hate the opposition, you’re strengthening the barrier, and deliberately perpetuating the conflict.
Incidentally, I detect an undercurrent of personal greed in any argument based on property, inheritance and birthright – i.e. more acquisitions (or ‘recapture’) for self and kin folk; this can be philosophically shredded if claimed as an absolute. Freedom, autonomy and the right to self-determination are much more noble causes.
PS. A pertinent quote, indeed, Vronsky. I think the Pythons got it on the nail. (Maybe we should all follow them.)
According to the Qur’an there were two occasions when the Jews were expelled from Palestine. The first is understood to be the Captivity, after which they came back to Palestine speaking Aramaic from Iraq. The second was at the hands of the Roman Empire. At this time their custodianship of the religion of Islam and their line of pious prophets such as David and Zachariah was terminated.
In my book, and for want of a better word, zionism, small z, describes any present or historical force that has wished to restore the position of the Jews back to its pre-AD 70’s condition. This is easy to achieve because the line of prophets and the tradition of Islam continues with Muhammad pbuh. Re-connection is free and previous errors totally forgiven. Angels assisting them from over their heads and under their feet.
Any attempts outside of that route, to restore their earlier respect and property is zionism. It is a title that has been taken over in recent times by people I am not in a position to judge as an Englishman. It seems to me that there has been a long history of barbarism from my own country to match any of the atrocities of the new Zionists who have captured back control of Palestine.
But if these gonks who have wormed their way into power and influence, believe that they have restored their original position of respect, like the honour with which Muslims revere their prophets, Yahya, ( John the Baptist ), Elijah etc.etc., they are well mistaken. It would be so much better if the gonks of the US and our own gonks,i.e. British politicians, were not taken in by them.
Apologies to Craig for being so far off the original thread. I am looking forward to hearing the BBC production. I must confess to being very lazy about reading and I have not read Murder in Samarkand. One day God willing.
My view is that the yearning for absolute solutions and ‘replays’ of historical situations is futile and may actually be counter-productive. There needs to be a political, not a theological, solution to Palestine, in which all sides will need to negotiate and compromise.
I would like that every displaced Palestinian family got back their house, or else was compensated appropriately.
I understand – and often share – the rage against power.
Yes, ‘my’ ideal, for what it’s worth, would be a multi-religious, multi-ethnic, probably secular, certainly tolerant (tolernat, in its active sense) state in that area. But others will have other ideas.
There are many situations (in living memory) of illegal dispossession in the world – Hindu Bengalis in East Pakistan in 1971; Muslim Biharis in Bangladesh in the 1970s; Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs post-1947 in India/ Pakistan; Tatars in Crimea; Bosniaks in Bosnia; Serbs in Croatia. The list, sadly, is endless. History lies heavily on the shoulders of the dispossessed.
The Palestine issue has been used also by leaders in Muslim countries to distract their people from injustices they themselves commit on a daily basis. This does not take away from the issue, but I think that sometimes one needs to turn the lens on oneself, on one’s own society.
The central problem to-date in relation to the Levant is that Israel has not been willing to cooperate in any real sense with seeking a final settlement; any ‘concessions’ have been duplicitous and designed to hoodwink, while they continue rapacious colonisation. The power imbalance is key here, and in this the USA, with its own internal dynamics of power, bears prime and ongoing responsibility.
I agree entirely wrt avoiding demonisation of ‘the Other’.
.
Richard,
“Yes, but that’s all we’ve got here, is words.”
True but,
Words not only convey meaning, words convey thoughts – you really are looking inside a person’s brain. Unless of course the mind has separated from the thoughts – then there is a problem.
I don’t think it’s Tony_opmoc’s words that are the primary source of his image problem; I think it’s his rather enthusiastic use of the Return / Enter and Shift keys…
Iran – Strike inexorably moves closer – We may have to march and sit this time!
http://tinyurl.com/Iran-strike
AP
“ran said Saturday it arrested seven people, including two Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) operatives, who planned to stoke unrest and violence on a march scheduled for February 11.
The rally on Thursday will commemorate the 31st victory of the Islamic Revolution in Iran.
Intelligence forces, according to Borna News Agency, arrested the men who had plans to leave the country for Dubai in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) and then head to the United States.
According to the report, some of those arrested work for the US-backed Radio Farda, a Persian language station based in Prague and Washington.”
“I don’t think it’s Tony_opmoc’s words that are the primary source of his image problem; I think it’s his rather enthusiastic use of the Return / Enter and Shift keys…”
Personally, I Find the Stylistic Issues to be a Minor Consideration.
Compared with My Inability To Connect The Words To Anything Except Perhaps Some Internal Stream Of Consciousness Monologue.
I Can Make Out Each Word, I just Can’t Make Any Connection Between The Sentences And The Price of Fish.
Lithium.
That is a worrying link indeed Mark Golding, it puts Prof. Crevelds musings into a frame,i.e. ‘don’t you dare interfere, we have the means…’
Four days to get into the Gulf of persia? make that three in my book.
Unless there are manouvres planned including these missile ships, this news is worrying, because it could mean a unilateral attack, which is then supported by the western allies, text book stuff, totally outside the UN and Ban KI MOON.
I wonder hwat they are saying to Israels latest, highly worrying move?
Any thoughts on this:
http://www.clickliverpool.com/news/local-news/127906-ricky-tomlinson-challenges-luciana-berger-for-key-liverpool-wavertree-seat.html
Left winger vs Nulab good-looker in ‘safe’ Liverpool seat. Whom do you support? Let me guess: for the majority of readers, it won’t be the Nulab candidate, looks notwithstanding..
Richard Robinson: for goodness sake don’t mention fish. You’ll set Arsalan off as well.
“Whatever you do, don’t mention the fish. Oops !”
I don’t see Arsalan’s comments in the same light, they give much more the impression of being part of a conversation.
But, it’s a delicate balance, between pursuing somebody else’s comments and sticking to other other peoples’ idea of ‘the topic’; I’m not sure I have it right here, yet.
MJ
What do you have against Fish?
good luck to Ricky Tomlinson, he would make a great candidate, I’d love to see him in Parliament.
Arsalan, I love fish, although I have no been brought up on fish and chips.
I love fish so much, I would agree to a ten year moratorium on stopping all fishing in the North sea, a breeding sea for many speacies due to its shallow depth.
The North sea has been emtpied by successive generations and fish needs poetic support( Suhayl?, indeed such a ban on all fishing would revitalise this important source of protein.
We must insure Arsalan has something to eat in future, what would he chow otherwise?
I am willing to give up Fish for ten years so our kids can have the odd expensive nibble in future.
off course I’ve fallen into the thread diversion trap and its about time someone posts a link to Nadiras Stage review article….(:-)
“What do you have against Fish?”
Nothing whatsoever Arsalan (though if you eat too much fish these days you put yourself at risk of mercury poisoning).
Mj
That goes for everything these days. If your breath too much, you are at risk of poisoning yourself with the crap that they put in the air.
Wildfish is just safer than other foods, even with the added mercury.
Suhayl: There needs to be a political, not a theological solution to Palestine…
George Bush, the descendant of Jewish Slave Traders adopted a far-right Christian fundamentalism which centred on the Christian legacy from Judaism. I’m not the one to mix up theology and politics.
After it was made fashionable and easy to make money for UK politicians to follow the trail of chicken feed into the trap of US fundamental Christianity and they started to eat the Zionist War on Terror agenda prepared for them, they can’t escape from the trap and they just have to carry on justifying the unbearable awfulness of the catastrophe that Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine have been. Again, it was not Muslims who mixed politics and theology.
It was our lovely, very own UK politicians following the political gravy train.
Now that our politicians have got themselves and us and Europe, as well as the US, into this monumentally stupid position, and we are not allowed to shoot them because they are an endangered species which has pushed us all into virtual, financial and cultural extinction, what should we do to sort out the mess they have made?
1/ Correct the false theology adopted by George Bush, and followed by western politicians.
2/ Recognise the truth of Allah’s statement that if they come to power, ( i.e. He is talking about politics, not race, thank you very much, ) the Jews will not give you ( Muslims ) even as much power as the black dot on a date stone.
Therefore there is no political solution, while the present politicians are in power supporting Zionism.
3/ All United Nations resolutions against Israel, its possessions of WMD and other illegal weapons must be implemented.
5/ Recognise that existing USUK politicians are unable to admit their errors, because it would expose the financial scandals which trapped them into supporting Zionism in the first place.
6/ Negotiate a political settlement for Palestine. Yes,I agree with you.There has to be a political settlement for Palestine.
We cannot get to 6/ without going through points 1/to 5/.
p.s. Talking of Fish, There are places in Pakistan where you can see the great fish swirling round the black sewer-spouts into the river. For all the reassurances that the fish being served came from clear mountain springs, I didn’t eat it. Same with the politicians. Nobody now believes that they have the credibility to solve these problems, after they followed crazy Bush and Cheney into 3 WMD 21st century wars. Not a hope in hell of any political solutions coming from them. Possibly Zionism has achieved its immediate goals and a new election will allow shiny new clean hands like Obama to sweep away all the nasty memories and sooth all our angry feelings. Or possibly not. None of us is Spider-Man.
sorry, can’t count, no.4 is missing.
Gaza in Plain Language
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFK5TNcmEmg
Tony
She is just so happy and full of energy and confidence and determination. She has also probably got a job. She has been trying since she started at University.
He said at about 1:00 am, you have got the right attitude.
Yes but I really need a job – what do you do?
He said – well this is my place – come back with your CV – and ask for me, and I will give you an interview.
Its expensive being a student, if you do everything she does.
And her brother fixed her car – well temporarily. He knows what the real problem is – a faulty component – and by passed it. He will fix it properly next week.
Now, sure, there are lots of horrible things happening in this world, that you can’t do much about.
A friend of my wife’s phoned her up, and said her cousin had decided to take the ultimate solution.
Now, I thought she would be really upset about him committing suicide, but she bizarrely (from my point of view) understood why and actually seemed to think he had done something positive.
What the Fuck is Wrong With People?
Why are Some People So Sad, that they seem to enjoy being Miserable?
Get off Your Fucking Arse and Do Something To Help Someone Else.
You will then feel a lot better.
You Can’t Do Fuck All When You are Dead.
Tony
THE NAVAL STORY THAT WILL NOT GO AWAY – U.S.S LIBERTY
Israeli governments have always maintained that the attack on ‘Liberty’ was a mistake. But, by the grace of God, some American sailors lived to tell their stories. Men like Rocky Sturman, Ernie Gallo and James Ennes Jr.
James was on the bridge at the time of the attack and has said in his book, ‘Assault on the Liberty’ that the Israeli government tells a story of the attack totally at odds with the physical evidence and the account, as remembered by the surviving crew members. We were showing the US flag, we were screaming into the UHF channels and we were flashing our call-sign.
Columnist Roland Evans spoke to US ambassador Dwight Porter in 1991, who said that the Lebanon CIA station chief showed him the transcript of intercepted Israeli messages. Israeli planes had been given the order by the IDF to attack Liberty three times after a pilot queried the command, saying the ship was friendly, flying a US flag and correctly transmitting IFF response codes.
Chief of Naval operations Thomas Moorer spent a year investigating the attack as part of an independent panel which included US ambassador James Akins. The panel came to the conclusion that it was a deliberate attack; sadly the inquiry failed to get Congress to investigate because of many diversions that included references to the ‘Holocaust’ Nazi’s and cries of anti-semitism.
http://www.usslibertyinquiry.com
http://www.ussliberty.org
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/10/90418.php
Tony,
Most times suicide attempts are a cry for help when bouncing off the bottom from the pit of depression. Being that depressed means that life has lost purpose, devoid of meaning. I am no psychotherapist, but I have learnt to recognise the signs (and there are many) which at first were beyond my understanding. I have never experienced acute depression and my previous lack of understanding was often a cause for rebuke. I now realise that depression can be a very serious illness.
Oh yeah, anno, I know the politicians in power with their terrible economic militarist system aren’t going to do anything positive about it. They represent the problem, not the solution, I agree.
“I know the politicians in power with their terrible economic militarist system aren’t going to do anything positive about it.”
http://tinyurl.com/2qzvz9