Lovely moment from an unpublished interview by Matt Kennard here, dating from 2006, in which Jack Straw forgets the particular lies he is supposed to be telling and dissolves into incoherence a la George W Bush:
MK: I was going to ask you about Craig Murray and Uzbekistan ?” the situation there. I was reading about you allegedly were trying to suppress his memoir. Is that correct?
JS: We were trying to get him to obey the rules. You need to get the lines off John on that if you don’t mind. But if you’re a diplomat you’re expected to abide by your responsibilities which include… you accept, again, privileged position, good money, access to all sorts of confidences, you got to… yeah, that’s the issue there.
Fascinating interview all in all. No wonder the student journalist, Matt Kennard, did not end up in the UK mainstream media – he’s much too good.
Go away, Larry. Wildly attacking dreoilin for her experience is ridiculous. Your conclusions are ridiculous. I would not shoot you, and I would probably rather spend (a small amount of) time with you than apostate, but not with this rubbish and not on this board.
Although we know there’s at least one “ill-informed and silly” American in St Louis, I’m sure most commenters here are too sensible to draw any broader conclusions from that.
Re They Shoot Horses Don’t They.
People actually breed sheep and other animals, purely so that they can kill them, and wear their skins to keep warm. Not only that (and I realise that this may be censored) they actually eat them as well.
Standards of morality change from time to time, place to place and culture to culture. But we do live in a natural world, that only works because predators cull the herd.
Its only humans that do it to themselves though.
You can read the strangest things in the Daily Mail. They even have articles by Melanie Phillips about the unmentionable events in New York in 2001.
“Jack Straw ‘should quit’ over his role in Iraq
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 8:08 AM on 11th February 2010
Jack Straw
Under fire: Jack Straw has been accused of breaking the ministerial code of conduct before the Iraq war
Jack Straw was facing a top-level investigation and calls to resign last night amid claims that he broke the ministerial code of conduct before the invasion of Iraq.
The Liberal Democrats have asked Cabinet Secretary Sir Gus O’Donnell to investigate evidence presented to the Chilcot Inquiry that Mr Straw, who was then Foreign Secretary, pressured Attorney General Lord Goldsmith not to give his full legal advice to the Cabinet.
Foreign Affairs spokesman Ed Davey said Mr Straw should resign for breaching the code, misleading Parliament and then, in his current role as Justice Secretary, preventing the release of relevant Cabinet papers from 2003.
A recently declassified document released to the Chilcot Inquiry details how Mr Straw persuaded Lord Goldsmith not to lay out to the Cabinet all his doubts about the legality of the war but to provide a short summary instead.
The Code of Conduct states: ‘When advice from the Law Officers is included in correspondence between Ministers, or in papers for the cabinet, the conclusions may, if necessary, be summarised but, if this is done, the complete text of the advice should be attached’.
Last night a spokesman for Mr Straw said he was confident he had not broken the ministerial code and would co-operate fully with any inquiry by Sir Gus.
Tony
“That is rather like Larry’s ‘I lived with the Irish in Queens’, no?”
No, you silly goose. I’m saying the exact opposite. I’m saying that living among the Irish (and practically living in Ireland, as my corner pub was completely Irish and well-populated) does not lead me to the conclusion that I can make harsh judgments about the Irish in general.
I certainly don’t think it qualifies me as having special knowledge on Irish history.
Bit of a comment fail on your part, eh, Merkin?
Yes, I think Straw knows he’s in the firing line. I wonder if he has anything like Blair’s protective riches (face of Louis Vuitton, rep of various corporations, Middle East Peace envoy (inset hysterical laughter) and other stuff I can’t be bothered to look up) Blair has something like 8 houses: I bet Straw hasn’t.
Tony: You don’t need to kill a sheep to get its wool.
Some people actually …eat them. Never.
And some people apparently are prepared to shoot a horse because they are shit at riding. There you go.
Straw has actually gone on the defensive recently, or you could say the attack. And I don’t believe its anything to do with the fact that he has got more Muslims, that Khazars in his constituency.
I reckon its because he has got a bit of a conscience, and he really does want magistrates to start the process of prosecuting visiting war criminals.
His logic probably runs something like, well if I’m going down I’m going to take those bastards with me.
I can’t of course mention, the group who say that until the law is changed, they won’t travel to the UK and donate any more money supporting Gilad Atzmon in his musical career – cos they don’t like sax.
Tony
Given the coverage of every death of every British soldier (and American soldier, at least on Sky News?) I confess to being tempted frequently to throw something at the TV.
If one is invading other sovereign countries, surely one expects to have such casualties. But each death is treated on TV as some ‘unfair’ and ‘unwarranted’ tragedy. It’s in the tone of voice and the approach. I can’t fathom it.
To ban the Muslim march was callous and inhumane, IMO — and also the worst PR move the Government could have made regarding Wootton Bassett. But I don’t know all the details, i.e. whether the organising group was entirely peaceful in their plans. I thought they were.
————
Larry seems to have missed the fact that I referred to some “ill-informed right-wingers” and to “Fox News”. He’s now talking about “hatred for over 300 million people”. Typical.
———–
“Its only humans that do it to themselves though.”–Tony
How true. And it’s our species that invented torture and took it to the most “refined” levels. That’s civilization for you.
“(though they are really more a pink colour)”
Steve Biko, ‘Cry Freedom’. Made me hoot.
dreoilin, well now you say “some”. Can you even recognize a hasty generalization? Go re-read your anti-American silliness, keying off something that had to do with Dubai. Are you really saying that you were just talking about “some” Americans?
Typical.
“Are you really saying that you were just talking about “some” Americans?”
Larry, I do believe it would be rather difficult to engage with 300 million people on the net, don’t you? I’ve already told you on that “other” thread that you spend half your time putting words into people’s mouths.
I have *dozens* of relatives and numerous friends in the USA. Do I think they’re all stupid? No I don’t. Get a grip, for heaven’s sake.
And it’s not “anti-American silliness” when I quote right-wingers in the USA who have no idea that Ireland is now independent. They didn’t even know the correct name for my country.
You are aware of the research that said that Fox viewers were likely to be the least-informed Americans? And that the more Fox News they watch the worse-informed they are? I’m sure you’ve read it. Now go away, you’re annoying me.
Barbara,
I’m sorry if you found my horse ‘anecdote’ brutal and disgusting, but I have to note your love of T-Force and their top secret activities.
May I remind you that many scientist were abducted from their homes in Magdeburg, having to leave wives and children behind. While they were paid 15s for their knowledge and work, nothing was sent to support their families.
According to recently declassified top secret documents many of these scientists were involved in the manufacture of chemical warfare gases and certainly the manufacture of sarin gas.
Records show that the origins of Porton Down physiological experiments were based on the work of these scientists involved in the physiological trials of chemical warfare gases which had been conducted at concentration camps.
An anecdote account of killing a horse palls into insignificance compared to your blessing for the unit.
Mark, can you be bothered to quote Barbara’s support for Tforce (what is that?) please.
Otherwise, two wrongs don’t make a right, huh.
“Nice that you’ve shot horses – wasn’t there a song about that?”
A movie, actually – and a very good one. A satire on capitalism, some say. Having ranted on another thread about the decline of the American cinema perhaps I should give credit there. I might also recommend ‘Wrestler’ although it’s unremittingly depressing.
In an attempt to recover my faith in humanity I’m retracing my steps (like Wile E Coyote trying to get back to the cliff edge having run over it) by ordering DVDs of Le Grand Meaulnes and Manon des Sources. Anyone seen Saura’s Carmen? Wow.
I don’t get this anxiety about the BNP. One bunch of fascists is already running the country – why worry about another that isn’t?
Vronsky: The BNP leadership lie. Their existence in a democracy is a lie: they want division, fear and hatred, where true democracy unites. The true views of the Labour Party leadership are not “kill all Muslims” and I doubt that Cameron is secretly thinking “Hitler is my hero”. When Blair squirms over the Iraq tragedy, he is not thinking “yeah, but it was great to kill them”. When Griffin squirms over the Holocaust he is thinking “and as a man who approves of Mein Kampf I consider it a good thing”.
Thta;s the problem with the BNP.
P Vronsky: it was also a song. A terrible, teeth gritting song, reflecting the times, admittedly.
Re the book ‘Le Grand Meulnes’: it is one of my favourites, and is amazing; will check out the film.
Me I am currently watching The Incredibles and A Night in The Museum 2. But still.
No Technicolour, ‘two wrongs don’t make right’ – but I had the courtesy to say ‘sorry’ Huh? Where do your priorities lie?
Mark, my priorities generally lie in the direction of establishing facts. I asked you for some.
Saying ‘sorry, but you did this completely different thing’ might be acceptable to Barbara, of course.
In my experience, the BNP are a seriously over-rated bunch of mainly harmless clowns. Sure they are racist twats, but they are wide open to being wound up about that, such they admit their own stupidity.
The BNP as an organisation, have obviously caused some trouble and discontent and generated such hatred that some people go to the lengths of creating websites the content of which is entirely negative about the BNP but says nothing positive about anything.
I am unaware of the BNP being responsible for anyone’s death, though I admit such a thing maybe entirely possible.
Now contrast the BNP with some Labour MP’s who knew that Blair was lying, and were 100% personally opposed to War in Iraq, as were the vast majority of the people who elected them, yet still voted for War – simply to save their cushy jobs, lifestyles, ego’s and expenses.
It is these scum within the labour party, that are responsible for Millions of innocent deaths.
Sure the Tory scum are responsible too, but everyone knew how they would vote.
Compared with these people, the BNP are like harmless village clowns.
Its not the BNP that should be strung up, its the people responsible for Illegal War, Mass Genocide and Torture.
Tony
“true democracy unites”
Does it? I thought it merely strove to give appropriate weight to all the divisions.
@technicolour
It might be that ‘kill all Muslims’ is not the view of the Labour Party, but it is difficult to infer any view whatever from their pronouncements. I therefore (like most people here) infer from their actions, and their actions are fascist. I really don’t care to debate the theological differences between the various cults and septs of fascism – if you don’t like cheese, which cheese doesn’t matter.
Glad you enjoyed ‘Le Grand Meaulnes’ – me too, though I couldn’t help comparing it in my mind with ‘Catcher in the Rye’. Troubled French youth appear to behave differently from troubled American youth – Holden Caulfield would never have stood for all that nonsense. English equivalent of Meaulnes: ‘Eric, or Little by Little’. The virtuous die of mysterious fevers and we are left to presume that the bad guys did just fine. Back to fascism again.
..and there is Tony saying it more clearly.
“True democracy unites”, in the sense that the divisions can be united in their support for appropriate representation, ie they accept that their own opinion is just one facet of the whole. Therefore, they do not lie about their position to garner undeserved support.
“Le Grand Meulnes” or “The Lost Domain” – what a wonderful book.
Catcher in the Rye v The Lost Domain (how I originally read it, thanks Clark). Autre temps, autre moeurs, I think. Also, other writer, other sensitivities.
Tony, currently the BNP may indeed be like ‘harmless village clowns’. The fact that racist attacks go up whenever they have a victory is not entirely harmless, though, is it? And what do you think they’d be like, if they actually had any power? I know this is way down the line (30 years?). Do you think they’d be nice? Do you think you’d be happy, if you were a Muslim or an Afro-Caribbean, or Jewish, that they were able to represented in out mainstream?
The terrible – I use the word advisedly – thing about New Labour is that they have scooped the heart out of common political decency. That is why most people initially voted for a Labour government, only to be let down (small phrase, comparative to the effect).
True about democracy, again thanks, Clark.
barbara,
“Yeah, sorry, we shouldn’t shoot horses, but I’d be glad to get rid of Larry”!
“Le Grand Meulnes” has a chapter called “The Carriage Returns”, which Tony_opmoc sometimes reminds me of…
Disclaimer,
I have started drinking alcohol, and will increasingly make even less sense, but I guess I should say that I have spent a lot of time over the past couple of years or so talking to Americans and have generally found them intelligent, polite and exceedingly tolerant of my views that are occasionaly diametrically opposed to theirs
And have done so again
“I realise that my economic view of the World is completely unconventional and everyone thinks I am mad, however…
“The Richest 1% Have Captured America’s Wealth”, except it is not just America’s Wealth, but the entire World’s.
Take a look around, and you will find that virtually every country in the World, and the vast majority of ordinary people are in enormous debt or have been robbed blind in one way or another.
And the Richest 1% are not going to give it back. It is effectively DEAD MONEY ?” who’s only representation is in vast strings of numbers in computer registers. It ain’t doing nothing and it ain’t going anywhere.
It is the equivalent of 1% of the World stealing the entire Fresh Water supply of the World and hoarding it in vast reservoirs so they can go fishing ?” and No you can’t have any of it. The water is ours ?” and you ain’t having it…
Of course a major problem is that the richest 1% are in Control of the Governments across the World too, and they say ?” No you can’t do that. The people must starve to death. They can’t have any water and they can’t have any money.
Now Governments across the World have a very simple solution, that the 99% of us must tell them too do, otherwise we will just fuckin … . them.
Bring on the Rain.
They ain’t going to give the money back.
So take Responsibility
Governments all Over The World Have To Form Their Own Banks and Issue Their Own Money.
Now they are frightened to do so because if just one Government does this in isolation like Germany after WW1 ?” then they create hyper-inflation.
But where classical economic theory is valid if you are talking about just individual countries ?” or even individual households or individual small companies, classical economic theory does not apply in the current situation when every country is in the same position of having enormous debt to this 1%.
So the Governments just tell them to Fuck Off and Die.
And we start again with New Money ?” across The World.
There will be no hyper-inflation.
We just use money for the only purpose for which it is intended.
That is to motivate people to do useful work.
There is lots of work that needs to be done.
It can’t be that difficult
Just Fucking Do It
Gordon Brown The British Prime Minister might have no social skills whatsoever, but that’s what he did in October 2008, and the UK is nowhere near as fucked over as the US is.
I read stuff on here and elsewhere in America about what is happenning to ordinary Americans losing their homes and going hungry and I just CRY for You.
Tony
Tony_opmoc
the figures linked are for the UK only, and only up to 2003, but the trend is only too clear:
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=2
Yeah, somehow, we need to win back democracy. The likes of Blair and Cameron do NOT represent ordinary people.
Some of my musician friends are even crazier than I am.
This guy who I have known for about 5 years who doesn’t have a computer on principle just phoned me up about his crazy cats.
He asked me where he could buy it locally.
So I searched and told him, and gave him the prices.
And found that is much cheaper buying it on the internet.
But I said are you sure you want this?
He said yes – my cats are driving me crazy – and it will calm them down.
But I said – aren’t you concerned what it might do to you?
So I have ordered this thing for him.
You plug it into the mains and it comes with a bottle of chemicals that fills the entire home with these calming fumes.
I said aren’t you worried – that if this thing works – it might calm you down and make you impotent or give you cancer?
But no he is not concerned about that, he is just concerned about calming his cats down.
His latest girlfriend is a bit of a stormer.
Tony
yeah Tony blah blah address the points..