All well but very tired after lots of travelling and some behind the scenes electoral work. Blog again tomorrow – off ti bed.
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“some behind the scenes electoral work”
Intriguing! Keep us posted!
(Are you going to be the man feeding the lines to Calamity via the concealed earpiece during the TV debates??!)
:))
*Early day Motion from George Galloway MP*
/Israel lobby support for the leader of HM Opposition/
This House notes with concern the increasingly close relationship between the Britain-Israel Communications and Research Centre (BICOM) and the office of the leader of the Opposition, the Rt Hon member for Witney (Mr Cameron).
The House notes that BICOM’s chairman Poju Zabludowicz, a close associate of Benyamin Netanyahu, a Finnish billionaire, and British non-domiciled resident taxpayer and former arms dealer has donated over 2 million pounds over the last three years to BICOM as well as funding, through his British subsidiary company Tamares Real Estate Investments, Mr Cameron’s leadership campaign and subsequently his private office as well as the Conservative party.
The House notes with concern that Zabludowicz is profiting from substantial investments in the illegal Israeli settlements in east Jerusalem and ask HM Government to clarify whether it is a) legal for British residents to profit from the fruits of illegal settlement activity and b) legal for British political parties to receive donations which may well in part be funded from such activities.
And more about the Joooooos!!!!
Mary – talking about these elephants in the room has almost become the third rail in British politics too. I can’t believe that Clegg sacked Jenny Tonge for making an entirely reasonable point. She was also, as I recall, hauled over the coals for daring to suggest that suicide bombers might have a reason for their behaviour. What? How dare the stupid women! All suicide bombers are evil, crazed and do it for no other reason that wicked pleasure! Sheesh, one would think blaspheme laws had been reinstated and widened considerably.
It’s pretty incredible how Carter got treated when he brought out his book:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Palestine-Peace-Apartheid-Jimmy-Carter/dp/0743285026
It’s a very valuable data point that’s provided by our resident troll – mention anything about Israeli foreign policy, and some stooge will get onto it’s hind legs for a moment to rattle off shrill accusations of anti-semitism.
(Admittedly, our resident stooge is getting a bit stale now – can’t we get an upgrade that’s a bit more interesting? It’s rather insulting that this is the best they have available for us. )
I invite anyone to delve back to at least the beginning of the year to obtain any number of examples, just on this blog. As soon as criticism of Israeli foreign policy is offered, said stooges will clamour for attention, while never _ever_ going near the actual point at hand.
For once, simple Larry, you are providing a service, consistently too. Keep it up.
The “take home” point is that nothing except accusations of anti-semitism are made. Never anything approaching an addressing of the criticism.
Out of nowhere-in-particular, a reading recommendation.
http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/
I’ve had it bookmarked for years, and lose a few hours to it every now and then (like, just now). The subjects are many and varied – at the moment it’s swivel-eyed-loons, dissected to hell and back – but the thing that impresses me is that it’s about the only blog I know where the discussion picks right up from the starting point and continues right to the point. Highest signal-to-noise ever.
Particularly interesting, to me, is the quiet and practised skill of the moderators, when you see them intervening every now and then to explain what they’ve done, and why.
I should perhaps leave it there, but I’ve fallen victim to the temptation to quote, from the middle of one long multi-faceted comment :-
”
Our long history of angry, unreasonable white people is also a history of successes and failures in making and enforcing the law, promoting peaceful understanding, and developing and teaching democratic systems of conflict resolution.
Will you be surprised if I say my thoughts on this are a lot like my thoughts on moderating forums and conversations?
— Democracy takes work, and constant tending. It’s difficult to impose it on people who don’t understand it.
— Having a good rule set is important, and so is constantly teaching that rule set, but it’s essential that people see it in action, over and over again.
— People have to have a sense of pride and ownership in their government in order for it to work properly. Those who preach disrespect and/or disengagement are not friends of democracy. Neither are those who take respectful and engaged criticism of it as an affront.
— Interventions by authorities always have two dimensions: what they mean in terms of managing the immediate situation, and what they teach the onlookers about the system and how it works. Poeple will always configure their behavior based on what they see happening around them.
— The single most important factor in the equation is the maintenance of everyday social order by the community itself.
— Police behavior first, outcomes second, and motives a very distant third.
And so forth.
” (Teresa Nielsen Hayden, one of the proprietors).
Good night, sleep well.
“It’s a very valuable data point that’s provided by our resident troll – mention anything about Israeli foreign policy, and some stooge will get onto it’s hind legs for a moment to rattle off shrill accusations of anti-semitism.”
This keeps getting repeated. You people don’t get it. Criticism of Israeli foreign policy is just fine, and I believe vitally important. But blaming the Jews for 911 and the like is amazingly stupid and racist.
“But blaming the Jews for 911 and the like is amazingly stupid and racist”.
But blaming Muslims is perfectly OK.
Thanks for those points Glenn.
Galloway’s EDM is a statement of rightful objection to the Israeli influence in OUR House of Commons by way of the large membership of the Friends of Israel lobbies in each party. Some of the activity could even be considered treasonable as these elected representatives are giving allegiance to a foreign country which is racist, aggressive and heavily militarized including possessing nuclear weapons let us not forget.
Peter Oborne made a Channel 4 programme – Dispatches – Inside Britain’s Israel Lobby – which included the activities of this character Poju Zabludowicz.
Our democracy has been debased.
Today Oborne lays in to Blair, brought to power incidenatlly with the help of his Jewish friends including Levy.
‘Spare us election sermons from the man who corrupted and degraded British politics.
The name of Tony Blair is not only synonymous with winning votes. It has also become associated with financial sleaze, lying, deceit and corruption.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/columnists/article-1262387/Tony-Blair-Election-sermons-man-degraded-UK-politics.html
Tonight in Beverly Hills: Code Pink tries to make a citizen’s arrest of Karl Rove and handcuff him–his book signing is so disrupted he has to leave without signing books–but he does tell the man calling him a war criminal that the Downing Street Memo was a fake.
On Crooks and Liars: http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/code-pink-tries-arrest-karl-rove
Rove: “With all due respect, this goes to show the totalitarianism of the left.” …
“The Downing Street memos are a complete fabrication and this man is a lunatic. You can leave, sir.”
Tomorrow, Fresno.
me in us
Another Early morning 5:30 AM St. Louis time post from Larry!!!
Or is it a 1:30 Israeli time post?
You decide!
And look at this hypocrite
“You people don’t get it. Criticism of Israeli foreign policy is just fine, and I believe vitally important.”
The post he called “More about Jews” was to do with arms deals, Arab being kicked out of their homes in to make way for Zionist settlement.
Only Larry knows how that is connected to “But blaming the Jews for 911 and the like is amazingly stupid and racist.”
Because his Mum did 9:11.
Larry there is only one reason why I don’t blame Israel for 911?
That is because there are so many things to blame Israel for, there is no need for 911.
Israel has killed countless Palestinians, Israel supported South African appetite, Israel is in itself an apatite much worse than the south African model.
Whether Israel did, or didn’t do 911 is not relevant to Israel being an illegitimate state. All of Israel, not just the west bank, Gaza, Sheba Farms, Golan heights, East and West Jerusalem is illegally occupied lands.
And every inch of what they call Israel needs to be given back to the legitimate owners, including your house Larry.
Larry has again brought up 911 in a thread where it is irrelevant. Remember the rule?
When he does that we bash Israel.
Larry doesn’t like Israel being blamed.
I agree blaming doesn’t really solve anything.
What we need is solutions people!!!
Solutions!
What is the solution to occupation?
It is liberation!
Occupied Palestine needs to be liberated, that is when the healing can begin.
These Arab rulers, and their big pot bellies have proven they are unable or unwilling to do it.
So they need to be removed, and replaced by a single ruler who is up to the Job.
What I am talking about is the Saluhideen solution.
The Unite and fight solution of Saluhideen as apposed to the disunite and fight of the Arab puppets.
Before Saluhideen took on the Crusaders, he united the Muslim world, by ending the Fatimid state in Egypt and uniting its lands with the Abasid Khilafah in Iraq.
Then after unity, he invaded and liberated Palestine.
After the liberation, he negotiated peace, and peace was restored.
That and only that is the solution to this problem.
First unity, Muslim nations need to unite in to one nation, We’ll call it the Khilafah, but you can call it the Muslim EU is you like as apposed to the Christian EU where Turkey is not wanted.
Secondly liberation. Israel needs to be invaded, and apatite ended, resulting in all of Palestine including the part maps describe as Israel being reintegrated in to the wider middle east.
Third and final stage. Then we’ll negotiated settlement to result in peaceful coexistence of all the regions inhabitants of every religion.
It has taken some time to bring a reasonable perspective to the Zionist threat to western democracy.
Only two years ago, there would have been shrill cries of anti-Semitism, for merely insinuating the Zionist lobby connection with UK government.
I have read and watched with exasperation, the international crimes committed by Israel, and listened at the silence of the UK in particular, to these crimes.
Once known for its fair play and indiscriminate criticism of rogue states and bullying governments, the British government has become conspicuous for its passive and active alignment with those whom, Britain erstwhile, would have found brutal and repugnant.
The State within a State accusation, has brought squeals of derision and hatred from some quarters of Zion, but only yesterday a British/Jewish male set an article in the Daily Mail, stating that, he was going to live in Israel. This male had returned to Britain, in 2004, from service in the IDF.
“If it quacks like a duck, if it walks like a duck . . .”
It would be in our democratic interest to know, if there is a significant Zionist influence in British parliament, as appears (AIPAC for one) at Capitol Hill, US.
No one gives cash to a political party for nothing–and some sponsorships appear to have sway on the way our present parliament and government performs–especially in foreign policy.
Tony Blair: His speech to Aipac in full
The former British Prime Minister and envoy to the Middle East Quartet, Tony Blair, to the Aipac conference in Washington. His speech in full:
“My job is to try to get agreement between Israelis and Palestinians, for the Quartet which tries to get agreement between the US, the UN, the EU and Russia. I thought after being Prime Minister of Britain for ten years I should try something easy.
I am always described as a friend of Israel. It is true. I am and proud of it and I will tell you why.
Israel is a democracy. The politicians are in fear of the people, not the people in fear of the politicians.
Citizens are governed by the rule of law. Men and women are equal before the law.
In Israel you can worship your faith in the way you want; or not as you choose.
There is freedom of thought and speech; Israeli society is vibrant, its art electrifying and its culture open.
In many respects, the Middle East region should regard Israel not as an enemy but as a model.
continues/…
http://www.thejc.com/news/world-news/29781/tony-blair-his-speech-aipac-full
Risible.
Richard Robinson: many thanks for the link to the Making Light blog. I see what you mean about the remarkable focus of the commenters. Restores your faith in Americans. Larry of course wouldn’t get a look in there. Lessons to be learned perhaps.
“The House notes that BICOM’s chairman Poju Zabludowicz, a close associate of Benyamin Netanyahu, a Finnish billionaire, and British non-domiciled resident taxpayer and former arms dealer has donated over 2 million pounds over the last three years to BICOM ……”
Oh I see we are playing the guilt by association game. Perhaps we might wish to start doing the same with Mr Galloway – you can almost hear him squealing about the unfairness of it already.
Arsalan
So after liberating Palestine what would you do about its Jewish population? Drive them into the sea? What rights would any Jews in Palestine then have?
Israel is not an illegitimate state under International Law – it was recognised by the UN. It’s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza isn’t.
As for a single ruler of all the Arab states – well all I can say dream on, it just isn’t going to happen. Have you noticed the trand in most of the world for more and more countries rather than less?
All accept the cretinous (on both sides) recognise that any peace in the Middle East lies in mutual recognition of Jewish and Arab claims. Of course Arsalan has his Israeli alteregos – but they are equally stupid.
And why the interest in Larry’s location – presumably you’d like to issue a fatwa, rather than having to address any of his arguments with any thing other than abuse.
Arsalan
So after liberating Palestine what would you do about its Jewish population? Drive them into the sea? What rights would any Jews in Palestine then have?
Israel is not an illegitimate state under International Law – it was recognised by the UN. It’s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza isn’t.
As for a single ruler of all the Arab states – well all I can say dream on, it just isn’t going to happen. Have you noticed the trand in most of the world for more and more countries rather than less?
All accept the cretinous (on both sides) recognise that any peace in the Middle East lies in mutual recognition of Jewish and Arab claims. Of course Arsalan has his Israeli alteregos – but they are equally stupid.
And why the interest in Larry’s location – presumably you’d like to issue a fatwa, rather than having to address any of his arguments with any thing other than abuse.
Of course perhaps we should appreciate that those who don’t understand that although Larry is from St Louis but might possibly be located elsewhere probably do have some difficulty in comprehending the concept of freedom of movement.
“Larry doesn’t like Israel being blamed.”
Is it possible to accept that blame can be attributed to both sides of an an argument (as Larry does if you bother to read waht he says) – and that actually attributing blame may not contribute very much to the resolution of many problems?
“So after liberating Palestine what would you do about its Jewish population?”
Well certainly not engage in the ethnic cleansing that the Stern Gang and Irgun et al perpetrated in the 1940s to clear Palestine of Palestinians.
Most Palestinians agree that the majority of Israelis were born there and that forced removal is no more proper or acceptable than it was in the 1940s.
“Oh I see we are playing the guilt by association game”
My reading of it is that he is simply drawing our attention to facts that represent a prima facie case that criminal activity is taking place and should therefore be investigated.
Galloway himself was of course suspected of misappropriating funds from his Iraqi charity, but in his case the matter was fully investigated and he was exonerated as a result.
Stephen, or Larry by another name?
What we wont do is kill their children to sell their Kidneys to rich newyorkers.
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/07/23/2009-07-23_2_new_jersey_mayors_arrested_in_sweeping_money_laundering_probe.html
Drive them in to the sea is how Israel was founded. It is what Israel did to the People who were their first.
You view others by your standards. Just because you behave like that, don’t expect others behave like that.
Zionists are the ones with the Nazi ideology. No one else has your racist ideas, so no one else will behave like you.
I said I believe in the Saluhideen solution, and that is what will be implemented on Israel.
If you want to know what that will mean to your friend Larry, then go read about Saluhideen and what happened to the Christians of Palestine.
They are still there by the way, at least the few that haven’t been expelled or exterminated by your Zionist Nazis are still there.
What your Zionists Nazis are offering as a peace deal, is appetite south Africa, enclaves, independent in name only. What you are proposing as a two state solution is an independent Jewish Israel, and a concentration camps for the Arabs.
If you are right, and I am dreaming you have nothing to fear.
If I am right and what the British did by chopping up the middle east after ww1 is reversed.
Your Israel doesn’t have a chance.
And even if it has a chance, Israel can win as many wars against us as Israel likes, we would only need to win one war.
And sooner or later we will.
there are less than 15 million of you and more than 1.5 billion of us. your numbers are diminishing, ours are increasing.
your days are numbered.
Now that you have the ability, do whatever war crimes you like, have your fun. Kill some babies, and have a good laugh about it. Make your money by selling their Kidneys.
There will come a time when the children you shoot at will be the ones ruling you, and then cry anti-Semitism as much as you like.
The world has seen how you behaved when you had the guns, soon the world will see how you whimper when your victims have the guns.
MJ – “many thanks for the link to the Making Light blog. I see what you mean about the remarkable focus of the commenters. Restores your faith in Americans”
It’s a pleasure 🙂
To be fair, they’re not all US/Canadians. Mostly, yes, but also some Brits, and others, I think. Often the subjects are stuff I have no interest in, but it’s still a pleasure to see what they can do with it.
Though, the bit I quoted did seem to have a distinctively USA-at-its-best quality, yes.
“Larry of course wouldn’t get a look in there.”
It’s intriguing to imagine his conversation with the moderators. (That was the contrast that led me to post it, of course. A longwinded way of not just going and banging my head against a convenient wall at his malignant pointlessness).
“Lessons to be learned perhaps.”
For me, food for thought rather than any direct take-away conclusions, I think. What we have here is a harder problem, in the absence of moderation.
The ideal-world anarchist’s real-world case-study, maybe ? We need rules, and how to defend ourselves against those who are taking the piss, in the absence of law-enforcement ? With a note that the successful approaches appear to have a software-based, technical component; moderation, banning, disemvowelling, killfiles, etc. In time, maybe a large-enough group might reach a state of being able to being able to behave as though such technical fixes were in place, and working ?
Arsalan
Thank you for demonstrating my case so admirably. Why not answer the questions raised rather than changing the subject? I’m not a Nazi, I haven’t sold anyone’s kidneys, I am not Larry, I haven’t shot at any children and I’m perfectly able to criticise Israel’s behaviour when appropriate.
Do you realise what a complete embarassment to nearly everything that you claim to represent.
glenn – “Never anything approaching an addressing of the criticism”.
That’s right. Point out on one thread that his comments are ridiculous, and he disengages and does it again in the next thread. Evade, bluster, bully and repeat.
What you also forget is that unlike in Saladin’s time is that the protagonists on both sides now have nuclear weapons. I somehow doubt you realise how cretinous your “final solution” really is.
“It’s intriguing to imagine his conversation with the moderators”
Moderator: I’m sorry Mr Larry, but you appear to have posted your comment on the wrong thread. We are not discussing 911, Israel, Bigfoot or Roswell here and none of the commenters has made any reference to these issues.
Larry: You moronic batshit crazy anti-semitic conspiraloon!!
arsalan – “The world has seen how you behaved when you had the guns, soon the world will see how you whimper when your victims have the guns.”
Yes, it’s a worry. I think that must have been very much the state of mind 50-some years ago, that gave rise to the current set of problems, isn’t it ? Sick at seeing the way your people are treated, and then you get the guns …
“What you also forget is that unlike in Saladin’s time is that the protagonists on both sides now have nuclear weapons”
Now I’m confused. Which two protagonists are these ?
Arsalan/ Richard… much the same happened in the US with segregation and slavery. Whites were terrified that they their appalling treatment would produce a huge backlash of revenge, which was one major reason for continuing the subjugation.