All well but very tired after lots of travelling and some behind the scenes electoral work. Blog again tomorrow – off ti bed.
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Richard
Israel and Pakistan – remember Arsalan and his ilk wants to draw all Islamic nations into his Caliphate.
“Israel and Pakistan – remember Arsalan and his ilk wants to draw all Islamic nations into his Caliphate”
Ah, I see. Personally, I think the remote-controlled “hellfire” is more of a worry, wrt pushing Pakistan in disastrous directions, than any argument of arsalan’s.
What Stephen and his ilk don’t understand is the days of colonialism are over. Muslims Nations weren’t the ones who decided to be cut apart from each other.
It was the British and the French who did that with a red marker pen. Take a look at a map and look at the straight lines all over the middle east.
It is up to Muslims of those nations whether they want to reunite in to the single state they lived in before WW1 and colonialism, or want to remain in the mess they live in now.
It isn’t up to you stephen, or Israel or the US.
It is up to us, and no one but us how we rule ourselves. So we will unite, and when we do, you can go in to a corner and cry anti-Semitism as much as you like.
Israel has an option to resolve all of this peaceful and keep very good terms for its Zionist settlers. This is the option chosen by south African settlers.
Which is one man, one vote, one nation, full equality for all citizens.
Something tells me they will never choose that, because if they wanted to live in equality with people of inferior races they would have remained where they are. American Jews, British Jews and Russian Jews already had full equality where they were, they went to Israel because they wanted to be above equal.
And that is something we will never accept. So there will be war to resolve this. the best we can hope for is that it will be as bloodless as possible, and peace will be restored after the event as quick as possible.
The best way to insure that is to face Israel with overwhelming odds.
Israel needs to be weakened by as many boycotts and sanctions before the event as possible for its own good, and Muslims in all Muslim majority nations need to be made to understand, the only solution for them to flourish is unity.
Jews should plan for post Israel, and so should we.
As well as encouraging the natives of that land to resist, they should be made to understand that their fight is to end oppression, and not to replace the oppressors.
And maybe, just maybe, if Israel is weakened by sanctions and boycotts, in the way South Africa was, and it is faced with a united Islamic Army instead of school boys with Rocks, they might just see sense as the white south Africans did and avoid the war they can not win.
“It is up to Muslims of those nations whether they want to reunite in to the single state they lived in before WW1 and colonialism”
Agree with the first part. I’m all for democratic self detrmination anywhere – pity most of the dictators in that part of the world aren’t prepared to trust their own people. The second part is just garbage historically – there never was a single state before WW1 and colonialism.
As for the Jews in Israel agreeing to their inclusion in a single pan Islamic state (where they are a minority – and where the constituent parts have an atrocious recent track record in their treatment of minorities and in their respect for freedoms and democratic rights) you haven’t a snowball in hell’s chance. If you need to understand anything about Jewish history – their experience as minorities in large states has been little short of disastrous – and they would not submit willingly to the same again.
I think you will find that many Maaronite Christians in Lebanon and Kurds will have a similar view.
@stephen – I mean this advice kindly – if you use phrases like “cretinous”, “you’re a complete embarrassment”, etc, then you won’t get anywhere, and you might be regarded as someone popping in and cruising for a fight for the hell of it.
Anno and Arsalan are opposed to many of the liberal views espoused on this board, but generally they are only abusive when abused, which is probably fair enough! Accordingly although I think they are wrong about most things, I am still able to engage with them and explain why I think this, and a civil conversation often ensues.
On the other hand, if you call them names – if you call anyone names – I think they won’t listen to you.
Larry, oh Sorry Stephen.
I did mention they will not agree, they went there to be masters not equals.
You mentioned Jews feel they didn’t fair well as minorities. I didn’t know they were a minority here? or in America where they are doing very well?
But after they made themselves a majority in what you call Israel by expelling or murdering the native majority, people don’t seem to do very well under their majority do they?
And if you count the numbers in the area under their control, you will find they are no longer a majority any more.
And the people they deem as lesser races still aren’t doing very well.
Yes I agree they didn’t go their to be a minority. But now they are. What you call their peace deal is apatite. We will not agree to that. And they wont agree to full equality, because that would mean living under someone else rule.
So their will be war. If we win, after it there will be peace.
If you win, there will be another war, which will be replaced by another until Israel loses, and then their will be peace.
“Something tells me they will never choose that, because if they wanted to live in equality with people of inferior races they would have remained where they are”
Isn’t the defining characteristic of racists everywhere that they believe in inferior and superior races.
Yes, Zionism is racism.
“This keeps getting repeated. You people don’t get it. Criticism of Israeli foreign policy is just fine, and I believe vitally important.” Larry from St Louis.
Does this mean that you (whether singular or plural) believe that criticism of US and UK foreign policy in relation to imperial wars is also vitally important? Do you disagree with the central thrust of those policies?
If you can comment as above on Israel, what’s stopping you from answering my simple question wrt the US and UK?
I agree with your basic point – but I think you will find that Arsalan’s standard response is to resort to abuse and ad hominem attacks on all who disagree with – and his standard response is to ignore any questions or challenges to his position (just try and get hime to provide an answer to a question about human rights in any Moslem country). He also fails to understand that any views that differ to his own are not necessarily diametrically opposed. Sometime it needs strong language to point this out.
Just how insulting do you think it is to continually call Zionists Nazis and racists? Especially since Arsalan belives that anyone who believes in the continued existence of Israel is by his definition a Zionist. And no I’m not even Jewish.
The last post was by me and was addressed to Jon
Apologies
Larry can speak for himself, and I will and have criticised him when I think it is necessary – but of course criticism of US and UK foreign policy is vitally important. Criticism of all policies is essential for any democracies to survive – it improves policies and stops mistakes being repeated. It is also the one of the central features that distinguishes democracies from dictatorship
While I may agree with the general thrust of UK foreign policy there are quite a number of areas where I do disagree. I do actually think it was right to dispose of Saddam and get rid of the Taliban in Afghanistan – but i don’t think that the purpose of doing so was clearly thought out at the time. If the aim had been to return those countries to self determination (rather than being run by Fascist dictatorships) this would have dictated a much clearer and shorter term exit strategy – this is something that Obama understands but his predecessor didn’t.
One of the beauties of democracies is that they permit nuanced views rather than the yes/no positions required in dictatorships.
Stephanie “but of course criticism of US and UK foreign policy is vitally important.”
Larry “Criticism of Israeli foreign policy is just fine, and I believe vitally important.
”
They are the same Person!!!!
Or they are taking instructions from the same people.
Larry, Or Stephanie if you prefer we use that name. Stop being such a bitch, no one is going to fall for that divide and rule stuff her, so go home and cry to mummy!
People here know what I think of the puppet states in the Muslim world, and they know what solution I have for them
And you Larry are a liar, you are a dirty liar. That is because I did tell you just a couple of hours ago what should be done to those so called Muslim countries and you responded. Not using your LArry name, but your Stephanie name. So you know what I think of them.
But you still say that, because you are an idiot and a hate monger. You mistakenly believe that if you lie about me people here will believe you and we will turn on each other.
But bitch that wont happen, whether you call yourself Larry, Stephanie or any other bitch name,
People here know what I think of the puppet rulers installed by America on the Muslim world, and they know what my solution is. You know it too you lying bitch.
And people know what bitch tricks you Zionist try and pull to get us to turn on each other instead of the evil nation you support.
So **** you, **** Larry, **** your antisemitism slogan that you try and shut us up with, , and **** your mother if she wasn’t so fat!
Have you noticed something about the Zionists who come here to bitch?
Whatever name they use, they all state “I am not Jewish”.
Larry, Angry, Stephanie, all of those bitches!
And do you know something?
I agree with them!!!!!!!
Zionism is is apostasy from Judaism!
Love of Zionism means hatred of Judaism.
that is what we’ve been saying all along.
Zionists are not Jewish!
Hatred of Israel means hatred of antisemitism.
It is impossible to be a Zionist and a Jew at the same time. Zionism is a racist cult so requires the abandonment of Judaism.
So Larry/Stephanie even though I believe you have been instructed to say that, I believe you are right, you are not a Jew. In fact I believe you are more than right, no Zionists are Jewish.
Zionists have no religion, they are just racist Nazis. they helped the Nazis kill real Jews to make to help the foundation of Israel. Zionists aided the Nazi in anyway they can, because both share the same racist ideology.
And nothing has changed. Who supports the Nazi BNP?
the Zionists.
Now you see them on the same marches!!
You See skin headed Nazi BNP with their swastika tattoos, marching hand in hand with Zionist Israelis!
You see them waving the Israeli flag with one hand and giving Nazi salutes with the other.
Stephanie, you are both the same.
I reserve my politeness for people, you bitch are a racist Nazi, not a person. Go to Satan if you want friendship, politeness and a nice cordial discussion.
And Larry I didn’t mean Zionists are Nazis as an insult, I meant it as fact.
Take a look at Zionists and NeoNazis walking hand in hand,
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Bfndnd6PMps/Su2w_sdJJQI/AAAAAAAAARM/TeDyfp8sPgw/s400/israeli+flag2.JPG
Then take a look at who the real Jews support:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Qm2i8mXTjhs/SvARxGnpaKI/AAAAAAAACC8/DaSh8Hxu9nw/s400/anti-zionist-jews.jpg
Arsalan, they’re baiting you. Just give them the middle finger and move on. For what it’s worth, they’re lying too with this from Larry “I’m not even Jewish” Stephen :
“… think you will find that Arsalan’s standard response is to resort to abuse and ad hominem attacks on all who disagree with [him]”
That’s just flat out untrue. Just for instance, you and I have disagreed with each other numerous times, and you have never once used an ad hominem against me, nor me against you.
Glenn my insults are reserved for Zionists.
They are here to stop us discussing Israel. So whatever they say, attack Israel.
That way their presence will cause their cause more harm than good, and maybe they will crawl back under their rocks.
Arsalan’s righteous zeal is remarkable to behold.
A little game I play in my mind – who would I rather meet in a dark alley? Who would I rather share a lifeboat with? I’d know where I stood with Arsalan, but what about the writer of the following:
“I do actually think it was right to dispose of Saddam and get rid of the Taliban in Afghanistan – but i don’t think that the purpose of doing so was clearly thought out at the time”.
He might just “dispose” of me, though his purpose might not be clearly thought out at the time…
Thank you, Stephen, for answering the question which I’ve been directing at the larries for several weeks without getting any response. I disagree with you, of course, but that’s the way it goes.
Now, larries, see how easy it is? Stephen answered my question. It did not result in nuclear war. Can you do the same? If not, why not?
Clark, a dalek is immune from such fears. A dalek can see in the dark. You are a dalek. A good and cultured one, with a deep soul.
I would not jump out of the boat, though, so I’d rather be in a boat with Arsalan than one with me. He’d also be able to catch fish more effectively. Anyway, it’s likely that Arsalan, fish wizard, can swim with the selkies and mermaids.
suhayl
Sorry to disappoint you:
I can swim, but not very well.
But I am good at catching fish though. I have often caught them with my hands when I see them swimming along our local polluted canal.
I realised them though, eating them would be more suicidal than jumping out of the lifeboat.
I have caught two fish with a rod, a small one that I photoed before release, and a large one that got away.
Oh well we now have the latest crackpot theory from Arsalan.
“no Zionists are Jewish.
Zionists have no religion, they are just racist Nazis. they helped the Nazis kill real Jews to make to help the foundation of Israel. Zionists aided the Nazi in anyway they can, because both share the same racist ideology.”
Leaving aside the gross historical inaccuracies, I think any rational person will understand that many who believe in the continued existence of Israel (and that is not the same as condoning all the actions of the Israeli state) are Jewish, just as there are some who have the same belief who are not Jewish. Yes there is also a small minority of Jews who do not support the existence of the State of Israel – but all the major religions do contain divergent views.
Arsalan of course feels that he is entitled to decide who is and who isn’t Jewish – does he think he is God – or has Allah told him? What qualifies him to do this? Perhaps he should let us know what would happen in his Islamic superstate to those people in Israel who profess to be Jewish and support the existence of the State of Israel – but don’t meet his definition of being a Jew?
Why does Arsalan now call me a girl’s name – just as he does with Larry – does he think that this is somehow insulting? This perhaps reveals his true views about 50% of the world’s population.
And one other question for Arsalan – could he let us know whether his proposed Islamic superstate will include all those states which belonged to the former Soviet Union with Moslem populations, as well as those those “republics” such as Chechenya, Dagestan, Tartarstan, Bashkiria etc. which remain within the Russian Federation. If so perhaps we can add another nuclear power to the list of possible protagonists.
It is practicing Jews who are saying Zionists are not Jews.
And it is these very Jews who suffered under the Nazis who are saying that you Zionists collaberated with the Nazis.
So when it comes to deciding who to believe, whether you who claim to be a non-Jew, or JEws who follow every word of the Torah. I am going to believe the Jews and saying Zionists are a bunch of Nazi collaberators who have no connection to Judaism what so ever.
And believe those real Jews when they say you Zionists are Nazis and not Jews is not difficult if you look at the Nazi actions of Israel. And Israel’s Nazi laws and policies.
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/holocaust.htm
Not just that, when NeoNazis demonstrate
Zionists march side by side hand in hand with them. Both are the same.
Because of this information, when I see Israel killing Palestinian children to sell their Kidneys to rich New Yorkers, I don’t blame Jews, I blame Nazis because Zionists are not Jews they are Nazis.
Again the bitch tries to scare you with Islamic super state, and again I will give the Zionist bitch the same reply I’ve given the bitch before.
It is up to us how we govern our lands, not you and your Nazi Israel. Not Israelis loyal slave America, and not America’s loyal slave Britain. The people in central Asia will decide whether they want to reunite in to an Islamic state or remain within the borders dictated by the Russian Empire. And the same applies to the populations of Muslim republics in what is now Russia.
It is their choice and not your Zionist bitch.
When the Islamic state is recreated it can negotiate with Russia on their behalf.
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/07/23/2009-07-23_2_new_jersey_mayors_arrested_in_sweeping_money_laundering_probe.html
“It is practicing Jews who are saying Zionists are not Jews”
I said that there was a small minority who said this – but there are an awful lot more practicising Jews who support the state of Israel – but you prefer to define them away as not being Real Jews – who gave you this right??
As for your views on Russia – do you really think that Russia would agree to such a secession by what it sees as its own republics. If you do you are clearly living in the realms of fantasy? So we now have three nuclear powers involved in your proposed Saladin solution don’t we? You need to be careful some of your allies see the break up of the Soviet Union as being the saddest day in history.
Another question – do you believe this week’s sucide bombings in Moscow were justified??
Stephen,
“allies see the break up of the Soviet Union as being the saddest day in histor”
We all hate you more then we disagree with each other though.
The states of the soviet union separated, and the southern part of Ireland separated from Britain. Most feel it is only a matter of time before Scotland, Wales and the northern part of Ireland too split. I don’t see it is so far fetched to assume Russia will realise it is more trouble then it is worth to keep provinces that don’t want to be kept.
And Larry, the Salahudin Solution is for Palestine.
I was about to answer your question. Then I remembered, the Blair thread.
You are someone who believes in innocence before guilt.
So I will through that same slogan back at you and say, who ever did it is innocent until proven guilty.
So no one can say what they did was wring until they have been convicted in a court of law.
It is a silly argument isn’t it?
If you agree stop using such a silly argument to defend the war criminal Blair.
I didn’t ask about innocence or guilt in the case of the Moscow suicide bombers that would have been a matter for the courts if they were still alive – and yes I would have expected the court to have gone through due process and for the Russian State to have protected the accused from physical violence (at the State’s cost) during the trial period. Perhaps you should be aware that sometimes people are accused (and even convicted) of murders which they did not commit – remember the Guildford 6.
The question was whether you thought the bombings were justified or not? Strange that you cannot give a simple answer to a simple question>
Stephen,
you sound so reasonable, but I do not trust you. You ask if bombings are “justified”, and yet you say it was “right to dispose of Saddam”, presumably despite the immense “colateral damage”. Oh yes, you probably “regret” that. Something tells me that it all comes down to sides with you.
Incidentally, was it you that criticised me on the “CIA Attacked French Civilians with LSD” thread?
Ask your civil partner Larry what reply I give her when he asks something so stupied. I can’t be bothered to repeat myself for a filthy lying racist Zionist Nazi bastard.
Because I don’t think Curiosity is your reason for typing that. I think you are making a point, a very nasty point that only a Zionist would make. So go ask your fellow Nazi, he asked me such stupied questions, so I’m sure he will share the answer I gave him with you, if you beg real nice.
The Nazi, lying, racist and Zionist are meant as a statement of fact, the filthy and bastard are meant as insults but you can accept those two words as statement of fact if you want.
Arsalan
If you had any worth in my eyes your insults might count for something – but I’m sure they satisfy some inner need in yourself and perhaps divert your aggression away from where it could do some damage.
You still haven’t answered my question – yes or no is sufficient.
Love and kisses
Clark
It comes down to doing what is right with me. There was also immense costs removing Hitler – it doesn’t mean that it was wrong to do so. I wouldn’t use the term “collateral” damage though – this indicates that such decisions should be taken without a view as to their likely costs.
As for taking sides – there are many US, Israeli and British actions which I have opposed – as well as some which I favour. My guess is that you probably have a much more partisan viewpoint than my own. I also have the view that fascists should be stood up to – whether they were in Spain, Italy, Nazi Germany, Iraq or the Islamists – do you have such a consistent viewpoint?
I wasn’t even aware of the CIA/LSD thread – so no it wasn’t me.
“Perhaps you should be aware that sometimes people are accused (and even convicted) of murders which they did not commit – remember the Guildford 6.”–stephen
You’re very ‘cool’ Stephen. But you should be aware that it was the Guilford 4 and the Birmingham Six. If you’re really so bothered about innocents who are wrongly convicted, one would think you would know that. And then there was the Maguire Seven. But of all of them, you’d think that the involvement of Daniel Day-Lewis, Emma Thompson and Pete Postlethwaite would improve your memory of the Guilford 4.
I too was struck by you saying that it was right to get rid of Saddam “and the Taliban” – as if the latter had gone somewhere. Tell me, what exactly do you think has been achieved so far by both invasions — apart from the hanging of Saddam Hussein??
He was never allowed to testify about his relationship with the United States. You know that, don’t you. “You’re a bastard but you’re our bastard – and when we’re finished with you …”
“there are many US, Israeli and British actions which I have opposed”–stephen
Such as?
“It comes down to doing what is right with me.”–stephen
What has been ‘done right’ so far in Afghanistan?