David Cameron’s hilarious fight against his better self on gay rights issues was wonderful entertainment. But the cause of his embarassment was not really gay rights, but Europe.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/mar/24/david-cameron-stumbles-gay-rights
Cameron’s decision that in the European Parliament the Tories whould ally with the far right homophobe and racist grouping centred on Poland and the Baltic Republics, was always going to be a timebomb. Persecuting homosexuals in Eastern Europe was entirely predictable as the issue which would trigger it. Thoroughly deserved.
What kind of party can’t ally any more with the parties of Angela Merkel, Jacques Chirac and Silvio Berlusconi because they are too left wing? If that question doesn’t give pause to any sensible person considering voting Tory, then I don’t know what will.
I have to say, participating in this forum can be terribly disappointing.
Yesterday, I put my finger on the key factors limiting social mobility in Britain; namely, crap schools and non-standard elocution. And what happened? Did anyone say “exactly,” or “well done”?
Absolutely not. No one mentioned social mobility again. They just totally went off topic and talked about the bloody election.
But, really, who cares whether it’ll be Clog or Tony Blair’s sleazy Number One, or even that pleasant young fellow from Eatons. Whichever it may be, or God help you, if it’s a coalition of all three it’s unlikely to slow Britain’s transformation into the first post-civilized nation (cf. Jacques Attali: “A short history of the future”).
But for those who may wish to slow the descent into chaos, let me reiterate: social mobility is impossible without education, and teaching kids how to put on a condom or how to hate a homophobe is not education it is indoctrination.
If you want to know what education is, here’s a reasonable explanation by Harold MacMillan: “At Oxford I worked very hard for three years and at the end of it I knew when a man was talking nonsense.”
Today, of course, it is more difficult because you need to know, also, when a woman is talking nonsense, which is not always when her lips are moving.
As for elocution, Harold MacMillan had some problem of his own, but if you think it will help a kid grow up to become Prime Minister if he talks Jamaican gangster slang or native Oik, then I hope you enjoy post-civilized Britain.
But today’s topic is more about the bloody election, so don’t let me get in anyone’s way.
This is an excellent commentary on our present condition. It raises many questions.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/mar/20/tony-judt-manifesto-for-a-new-politics
If Cameron believed that he was right in not interfering with the freedom of Conservative MEPs to vote as they saw fit, he should have maintained that position. I wasn’t impressed by his wobbling, presumably because of PC considerations.
“Yesterday, I put my finger on the key factors limiting social mobility in Britain; namely, crap schools and non-standard elocution. And what happened? Did anyone say “exactly,” or “well done”?”
Welcome to the hothouse Alfred. Never mind. Chin up, your time will come.
Cameroon is about as useful as the proverbial chocolate teapot. He has been exposed as a hollow sham.
PS When clicking on to About on Alfred’s website (Canadian Spectator) a site clicks in that tries to scan your computer??
Mary,
Thank you for the info about my “About” page.
I don’t see what you are seeing, and I cannot see any alien script on the page, but I have disabled it and will get my hosting service to take a look. If you have any details, e.g., what browser you are using, I’d be grateful if you will email me.
Alfred
Yesterday, I put my finger on the key factors limiting social mobility in Britain; namely, crap schools and non-standard elocution. And what happened? Did anyone say “exactly,” or “well done”?
With all due respect Alfred maybe it’s just that nobody agreed with you-and if that was the case consider yourslef fortunate you didnt receive invective..
It can get quite aurreal in here,but you’ve probably noticed that already i’m sure..:)
regards
PS to Mary,
Yes a good article that you mention by Tony Judt. But I think there is something fundamental that he misses.
Although he is certainly correct to say that “The materialistic and selfish quality of contemporary life is not inherent in the human condition,” I doubt if it has a lot to do with the privatization of public services, bad thing though that may be.
I grew up in the 50’s and since then Britain seems to have lost a measure of decency that cannot be accounted for by changes in income distribution or the extent of public services. In those days most people were dirt poor. And dirty. Ninety percent of houses had no bathroom. We lived on a farm with no indoor plumbing. What a joy for a five-year old ?” never had to wash. Well, occasionally one was scrubbed in a tin tub, but most villagers I swear never washed, ever.
Then, the murder conviction rate was 60 per year, now it is well over a thousand. Then children were safe just about anywhere. At the age if six I was put on a slam-door train (no corridor) with my sisters (ten and twelve) to visit with relatives in London. We shared the compartment with a bunch of soldiers. No problem feared or experienced. Homosexuality may have been illegal but it was not something that people obsessed about. If a couple of fellows lived together, what of it? Were Holmes and Watson, queer? Obviously not. But if they were, who cared what they did in the privacy of their own home?
My conclusion is that it is the culture that has rotted, and I would say that the media, including books, films and TV, enabled by liberalization of laws about pornography and ideas about public decency the portrayal of violence, etc. are primarily responsible.
And Jives,
Let the invective flow. I probably have enough Scotch blood to give as good as I get.
I’ve just read through Amnesty’s report on the issue and saw something not mentioned elsewhere.
It got me thinking.
The law mentions polygamy.
So why aren’t Amnesty complaining about the anti-polygamous aspect to the law?
Or the fact that polygamy is banned all over Europe.
Isn’t that discrimination?
I’m a polygamist stuck in a monogamous marriage.
It is difficult for me to express my sexuality here by marrying additional women because of prison.
If the law has no right to dictate who people share their bedrooms with
why can the law dictate the amount of women I share mine with?
Arsalan,
the law doesn’t – you just can’t marry them all. Fair enough, I reckon.
“I’m a polygamist stuck in a monogamous marriage”
We all are mate.
Arsalan,
I am famous for it. Bed as many as possible, marry as few as possible. You know it makes sense.
The Liberal utopia for which we are all headed: fornication unlimited, plus shopping, of course.
What about polyandry? Why am I discriminated against? I’m sure children would benefit from having several fathers around, especially if one was deficient.
Dreoilin
You really don’t understand men very well do you?
http://kuchikuchi.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/polygamy_2.jpg
Harr! That’s me. One husband, two sons, and not one of them ever did what they were told.
I once lived for several months in a polyandrous Buddhist village in the himalayas.
I was once beaten up by a pacifist called Pauly Andraus for making fun of his name.
Nahh just joking,
I thought bloody hell that was clever, just before I shouted, bloody hell that was painfull.
Arsalan has been at the beer. Or the fish.
“I once lived for several months in a polyandrous Buddhist village in the himalayas.”
Are you serious, MJ? What was it like?
Alfred: I like what I’ve read by you. I imagine a lot of people do this – they mentally nod and move on. If you’d said something to which I had disagreed, and felt my observation worth placing, I would have done so. Likewise, if there was something interesting that I might have added to complement your point. Or maybe just if I’d had the time.
Terminal news/info junkies do this… whip through their sites of interest and whip even faster through the comments. Sometimes they’ll agree, disagree or otherwise have occasion to comment/reply. Other people more-or-less live in a forum, or post during certain states of mind. Some trolls hang around, some are paid antagonists.
Don’t assume no response means no interest whatsoever – when people make useless, silly or misguided posts here, they’ll generally get a response. That’s the entire modus operandi of trolls, for instance.
Apart from a couple of obvious and irritating trolls, this forum is about as good as I’ve found for signal to noise ratio.
Alfred –
“social mobility is impossible without education, and teaching kids how to put on a condom or how to hate a homophobe is not education it is indoctrination.”
I would suggest that teenage pregnancy does not help social mobility.
“Homosexuality may have been illegal but it was not something that people obsessed about. But if they were, who cared what they did in the privacy of their own home?”
Funny that, homosexuals didn’t want to make a big deal about their lifestyle because it was *illegal*! Pray tell, why should homosexuals have to lie about who they are unless they are at home?
Ahh the good old days, back when people didn’t obsess about priests fiddling with kids.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like all the recent changes in society. But it’s true that every generation has complained about ‘the kids’. it’s nothing new, and I think you would be hard pressed to make the case that we aren’t better off now than say 100-200 years ago. The reason why life seemed so much simpler and more innocent when we were children, is because we were children.
dreoilin
It seems that way now that Craig has deleted the middle bit.
You are only reading the beginning and end of the story.
If you read the middle bit you would have realised it was a critique on how Daud Kamrans alliance with the European far right would have socioeconomic consequences.
But the worst thing about censurship is
Cameron has just been on The Politics Show – sounding earnest and keen – with a panel of voters. Unfortunately, or fortunately, I missed most of it so don’t know if the subject of homosexuality or his EU grouping came up.
I have just added a comment on the New Labour Bastards’ post. Two more troughers have been exposed.
Alfred, you should visit some of these inner city schools you mention with horror. They are less attractive prisons than the prisons of Eton or Stow, but the children inside are bright, funny, clever, naughty, hardworking, dreamy, curious and so on. They are not frightening; they are children.
The accelerated speed of the National Curriculum is frightening (five weeks to ‘do’ Dickens at GCSE) and the amount of work teachers and pupils are set is ridiculous, and the various fads imposed by government are insulting and often nonsensical, and the security measures are repulsive and unnecessary.
I don’t know a way back. But I’m sure ‘social mobility’ isn’t the answer. That will always leave people at the bottom, hungry or homeless or dying of hypothermia, won’t it?
Back to schools: of course teachers will try and impart a joy for learning and word and form (far more important than accents). But it’s pretty hard when society is telling children that a) there are no jobs for them b) all that matters is passing exams and c) that they are potential knife wielding maniacs and need to be fingerprinted and filmed.
By the way, I think it was you who used the word ‘miscegenation’ in an earlier post, and used it as as if the word was not one of the more repulsive in our language. I think you were objecting to relationships between people with more melatonin and people with less melatonin, in fact. That’s why I haven’t bothered to respond. Perhaps you could correct me if I’m wrong.
Technicolour,
well said.
Alfred,
take note. You were CanSpecky or something, weren’t you?
I was under the understanding that polyandry went hand in hand with female infanticide. Because families kill their daughters their sons had to share or remain single?
Arsalan: be assured that Buddhists do not practce infanticide. It’s not due to a shortage a women but a shortage of cash.
Yes, Arsalan, I think you’ve been misinformed. Read up on Buddhism, it’s interesting.
By the way, I was also interested to read that before Islam, people in many of those areas lived in matriarchal communities and paid tribute to a triumvirate of gods, three of them female.
It’s like the bonobos; peaceful creative and matriarchal. Apparently (according to radio 4 which still does produce good stuff) they split from the chimpanzees in a curious quirk of evolution. Of course they are now widely being used in animal experiments for that reason. Humans, lovely.