For all those commenters who were shocked by my failure to be very sorry about the murder of Eugene Terre Blanche, here is a photo of him
And here’s a massacre by those nice cuddly white South Africans – less than 1% of whom engaged in any form of protest against this massacre.
I don’t think any more words are needed.
Just this report.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8604375.stm
Eugene Terreblanche ‘killers’ in South Africa court
The AWB has retracted a threat to take revenge for the killing
Two South Africans are due to be formally charged with the murder of white supremacist Eugene Terreblanche.
The two farm workers, aged 28 and 15, have admitted beating him to death in a dispute over unpaid wages, police say.
About 200 supporters of Terreblanche’s paramilitary AWB group have gathered at the court, and small crowds from the local black community are also there.
/…..
A man who lived and advocated through violence…meets his end by way of violence.
A poetic irony if there ever was one.
http://hotterthanapileofcurry.wordpress.com
Yeah, terrible innit? The new Doctor Who was good.
Dick the Willy
That is terrible!
I missed it?
What time was it on?
What happened?
Good point, Craig Murry, but I imagine you have deaf ears when the linkage is made between the Nazis and the Ba’ath Party of Iraq under Hussein.
And your desire to express joy at the murder of Tony Blair is just disgusting.
@Arsalan – well, sacre bleur and zut alors. It was brilliant – get thee to the iplayer post haste.
Matt Davis, the new dude was I have to say – excellent. I remember him from a series called Party People which was truly excreble so was slightly pessimistic but I can happily and contentedly state that I was thoroughly wrong. His new asst – Amelia Pond is rather top torry too. Hurray etc etc.
Think Larry from St Louis pills must be wearing out – ooooh.
Larry wrote:
Good point, Craig Murry, but I imagine you have deaf ears when the linkage is made between the Nazis and the Ba’ath Party of Iraq under Hussein.
Not so good point, Larry. You are missing the point.
Opponents of the Iraq War would have shed no tears if Saddam Hussein or his vile sons had been assassinated. The point about the war and its unbelievably incompetently handled aftermath is the hundreds of thousands of civilians who just happened to get killed in the process, not to mention all those who were displaced and injured.
What exactly are you suggesting by the juxtaposition of those photographs, Craig?
Can you actually document murders committed by the man whose death by dismemberment so amused you?
I think you are mistaken to say that no more words are needed, if you mean by that that your comment is not to be taken as an incitement to murder.
Is that, in fact, your hope, that all the white people in Africa will murdered to avenge past atrocities?
Ultimately of course, when push came to shove, Terre Blanche and his ilk were just as irrelevant as the blacks they oppressed.
There was a time when apartheid was seen as useful to the corporate elite and Terre Blanches were useful. Then apartheid became bad for business and he became irrelevant.
I wonder did he ever work that out.
Merlin: “Opponents of the Iraq War would have shed no tears if Saddam Hussein or his vile sons had been assassinated. The point about the war and its unbelievably incompetently handled aftermath is the hundreds of thousands of civilians who just happened to get killed in the process, not to mention all those who were displaced and injured.”
Have you been listening to the anti-war movement?
Does the word indefatigability come to mind?
It seems to me that there were more people in the anti-war movement on the side of Hussein at the inception of the war and religious insurgents while the war progressed, than those in the anti-war movement who took the far more reasonable position that you cite.
Alfred, I’m not in tune with these threads, but this is very obviously not the blog of someone who hopes that all white people in Africa are murdered. Don’t be hysterical. It is a blog which points out that Terre Blanche was murdered in the same way that the victims of his ideology were murdered.
@Alfred – again I can’t make my mind up whether you’re a troublemaker or up for serious debate. Usually you discuss things in detail, but on a previous thread you make sweeping generalisations about liberals just to cause a provocation, and on this one you claim to believe that Craig’s post is an incitement to murder. But you don’t actually believe that, do you? Opposition to specific ideas is fine, but opposition to “liberals” in general is just political entrenchment, which is hardly in the spirit of co-operation and civility.
@Sharp – the usefulness of racism to the modern corporate elite is an interesting discussion. This was picked up in Naomi Klein’s book, Disaster Capitalism – and it connects also with how the IMF locked poverty into SA when Chicago theory economics were at their peak.
And Larry: more people supporting Hussein indeed. What utter nonsense. As for Galloway, as any fule in the UK kno, the heroes at the time ranged from John Pilger to Mark Thomas, to Mark Steel, to Jeremy Corbyn, to the schoolchildren who walked out in protest, to the WI who slow hand-clapped Blair, to the grandmothers who blockaded the air bases, to Unite and Unison and all the other unions, to Greenpeace, to students, to academics and bishops; in fact, to just about everyone. George Galloway and support for Hussein indeed. Have you nothing better to throw?
Merlin is absolutely right about the objection being to the human tragedy unfolding – and how right we were. I wish we’d been wrong. I often hoped we were.
Sharp: it would be interesting to look at Terre Blanche’s funding. Do you know anything about it? Mad bad people can exist quite independently of corporations, of course, but it does help if they have their money.
“the WI who slow hand-clapped Blair”
The WI is a Ba’ahist organization.
@Merlin – if pressed, I’d agree that the assassination of Hussein would be preferable to the million+ dead in Iraq now, though I am not comfortable with state-sanctioned murder in any circumstances. But given that most people agree the assassination of Hitler would have been more good than bad, perhaps the same applies to Hussein.
But the thing that I find most frustrating is that, if he was our useful son-of-a-bitch, then the people who installed him, and kept him armed, should bear some of the responsibility for his crimes. They knew what was going on when they sold chemical weapons to him, as did a young-looking Rumsfeld when he shook Hussein by the hand. What a pleasurable and profitable item of business!
However, the dilemma with siding with the “lesser-evil” argument in favour of state murder is that it will start to be applied in favour of the corporate elite. Before you know it, moderate or leftist politicians would be bumped off, all using the same logic. Therefore, one has to consider the outcome of supporting state-supported assassination even if on the surface it appears to be the least worst option.
No, the WI are a Bathist organisation. And a Then-straight-to-bed-ist one, too.
I still can’t get my head around the concept that rejoicing and showing a callous disregard, at the very least, in relation to the brutal murder of another human being… is somehow o.k., a truly “liberal” attitude, and squares with being a vigourous supporter of human rights and an anti-torture vocal campaigner.
TerreBlanche was a deluded, primative, brutal man. A man with odious views on “race” and the primacy of the white race. His views were so extreme he was almost a parody of a white racist. But for all that I wouldn’t have wished the man dead, beaten with a club and slashed with a machette. Call me old-fashioined, but I just don’t support senseless violence, murder, targetted killings, capital punishment; I think we should strive to make the use of violence, less, not more acceptable.
I felt no joy when Saddam Hussein was murdered in that ghastly cellar. It was a vile act of slaughter. I didn’t rub my hands together when his bruttish sons were killed either. I’m sick and tired of all the killing. I wouldn’t have executed the leading Nazis either, or Hitler. I think that was letting them off too easily. There are worse punishments than death. Life without respect, or power, for the powerful and feared is a far worse form of punishment. Showing them for what they really are, very ordinary men, when their power has been taken away, is a real punishment. Which is why Hitler took his own life, rather than face his enemies and their disdain.
Contrasting the photo of TerreBlanche in his full Moses/Brownshirt get up, with a photo from the Sharpville Massacre, is a piece of crude propaganda, which I believe insults the memory of those who were gunned down in Sharpville. It exploits them to make a political point, which is highly questionable. It’s similar to the way Zionists prostitute the memory of the Holocaust, and is just as unpleasant, and I’m actually rather surprised, no, shocked, that person with Craig’s expressed values would stoop to such methods.
I still can’t get my head around the concept that rejoicing and showing a callous disregard, at the very least, in relation to the brutal murder of another human being… is somehow o.k., a truly “liberal” attitude, and squares with being a vigourous supporter of human rights and an anti-torture vocal campaigner.
TerreBlanche was a deluded, primative, brutal man. A man with odious views on “race” and the primacy of the white race. His views were so extreme he was almost a parody of a white racist. But for all that I wouldn’t have wished the man dead, beaten with a club and slashed with a machette. Call me old-fashioined, but I just don’t support senseless violence, murder, targetted killings, capital punishment; I think we should strive to make the use of violence, less, not more acceptable.
I felt no joy when Saddam Hussein was murdered in that ghastly cellar. It was a vile act of slaughter. I didn’t rub my hands together when his bruttish sons were killed either. I’m sick and tired of all the killing. I wouldn’t have executed the leading Nazis either, or Hitler. I think that was letting them off too easily. There are worse punishments than death. Life without respect, or power, for the powerful and feared is a far worse form of punishment. Showing them for what they really are, very ordinary men, when their power has been taken away, is a real punishment. Which is why Hitler took his own life, rather than face his enemies and their disdain.
Contrasting the photo of TerreBlanche in his full Moses/Brownshirt get up, with a photo from the Sharpville Massacre, is a piece of crude propaganda, which I believe insults the memory of those who were gunned down in Sharpville. It exploits them to make a political point, which is highly questionable. It’s similar to the way Zionists prostitute the memory of the Holocaust, and is just as unpleasant, and I’m actually rather surprised, no, shocked, that person with Craig’s expressed values would stoop to such methods.
Technicolor,
Can there be serious doubt that there is anyone on this blog who is not the beneficiary of acts of rape, murder and pillage committed at some point in their ancestry? And if not, then to say that Terre Blanche deserved to die as some African victims of the apartheid government died amounts to saying that we should all be beaten to death with a lead pipe.
I believe Craig has made a serious error of judgment, which he should acknowledge. To encourage the enjoyment of violence cannot but encourage it.
Terreblanche, incidentally, a name that Craig thinks too ridiculous to be real, was, according to Wikipedia, the man’s real family name. His remotest African ancestor was a French Huguenot refugee named Estienne Terreblanche from Toulon(Provence), who arrived at the Cape in 1704.
For all his sins, and who of us are without sin, his aspiration for which he is so despised by some, was to create a white homeland in South Africa, a logical and fairly harmless extension, one would have thought, of the Apartheid idea. Not an idea likely to be adopted by the present government of South Africa, it is true, although why not? Terre Blanche’s family and that of many Boers have lived in Africa far longer than the families of most black South Africans. Should they not receive some consideration as indigenous people and allowed, if they wish, to retain their identity? Given a few hundred years of separate development and they might all turn into liberals.
No man is an island
Entire of itself
Each is a piece of the continent, a part of the main
Any man’s death diminishes me for I am involved in mankind
So send not to ask for whom the bell tolls
It tolls for thee
(John Donne, from memory, e&oe)
But I don’t think this blog owner would disagree. It seems he sees Terre Blanche as a symbol of the evils of apartheid. Since Terre Blanche tried to make himself into a symbol of the evils of apartheid, I can sort of understand it.
At the same time, writerman, I agree. And with Jon too. And Donne. No-one here is killing anyone, right? But there comes a point where fighting against war, even verbally, can indeed be a bit like fucking for virginity.
Actually, I’m pretty sure Craig would have tried to rescue anybody being set on by two people with machetes, and asked questions later. So really, this is not about him at all.
Some interesting & informative analysis from Mark, Suhayl and anno on the other thread, btw.
Are you indeed ‘just wondering’ Larry? I see you’ve moved on from your puerile accusations against the peace movement here without addressing any of the information given in return. I’m just wondering why anyone should give you any time of day at all?
Respond like a human please, or feck (have you watched Father Ted yet?) off.
PS Not that it’s a bad point in the ‘does one rejoice in the murder of murderous people?’ stakes, as such. Difference is, of course, that the people of the UK are not directly responsible for this one & therefore don’t have to hang their heads in shame and loathing as a result.
The best proof that this Nazi desrved what he got, is the fact that all the Zionists are queing up to defend that Nazi and all the Zionists are attacking us for attacking that Nazi.
Zionism and Nazism are one and the same.
Jon,
“I can’t make my mind up whether you’re a troublemaker or up for serious debate. Usually you discuss things in detail, but on a previous thread you make sweeping generalisations about liberals just to cause a provocation, and on this one you claim to believe that Craig’s post is an incitement to murder. But you don’t actually believe that, do you? Opposition to specific ideas is fine, but opposition to “liberals” in general is just political entrenchment, which is hardly in the spirit of co-operation and civility.”
I assure you I am absolutely serious in my view that to openly delight in the murder of someone because of their politics is a provocation to violence.
As for mocking liberals in general, I agree, it is not really constructive. I’m sorry. In future I will try to take them more seriously. But it is hard, listening to them justify murder for example, or explaining why Britain should have an immigration system based on that of Canada and Australia, near empty countries more than thirty times the size of Britain, etc.
Jon: “They knew what was going on when they sold chemical weapons to him, as did a young-looking Rumsfeld when he shook Hussein by the hand.”
I’m sick of these dumb arguments. Where’s your evidence, asshole?
There you go liar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r42oejmpkgw
Jon, don’t bother. Larry, google it. Or search this blog.
How many times do I have to see that video.
Where’s the evidence that the U.S. sold chemical weapons to Hussein.
Yes, e. coli and different chemicals were sold.
But you mentioned weapons.
Evidence?
@Louis
Actually no, Craig had no joy at the death of SH..but ETB was a proponent of a radical faction within the loons of last day aparthaid SA today. A man out of his time raging against the machine with no hope or future for himself or his followers. He holed up on a little farm and eventually realised his view of SA was not simply going to happen.
He was simply a product of his time and could not face change, bitter, twisted and angry..I personally am simply surprised he lasted as long as he did.