The UN Human Rights Committee is a body which routinely pulls its punches. It treats member states with respect, whether they deserve it or not. The UN is of course composed of nations many of which have much to hide on human rights, so the glass houses and stones argument is much applied.
In that context, the new advisory report of the UN Human Rights Committee on Uzbekistan is absolutely damning – as damning as these reports ever get. It contains one paragraph of “Positive Aspects” and 25 paragraphs of “Concerns”.
Concerns include lack of judicial independence, widespread use of torture, the position of women, the failure to produce bodies or graves of those executed by the state, lack of freedom of speech and movement, and use of forced labour – to name but a few.
Not even the UN can pretend that the human rights situation in Uzbekistan is anything other than abysmal.
Still more astonishing then that the Home Office has refused the asylum applications of every single one of the few dozen escapees from Uzbekistan to make it to the UK – which still has the Soviet exit visa system and locks its people in. Even last week the Home Office was still claiming at immigration hearings that there is no human rights problem in Uzbekistan. (Fortunately judges have been less blinkered and asylum cases have been won on appeal).
The UN and EU countries continue to use Uzbekistan as a major supply base for the occupation of Afghanistan. Major new contracts between the US and Uzbekistan were signed in March 2009, and Hilary Clinton is to pay an official visit to President Karimov in November this year.
Even more disgusting is that it now emerges that the newly reinvigorated US/Uzbek relationship was made possible in negotiations because the US agreed to contract Gulnara Karimova’s company FMN Logistics to provide the transport for all the US supplies passing through Central Asia to the US forces in Afghanistan.
Not only that, but the Karimov company FMN Logistics is involved in construction and supply services on the US airbases in Afghanistan itself, and has been involved in the massive expansion work to the prison at Baghram Airbase to provide a replacement Guantanamo torture centre further away from media access.
The Pentagon contracts are worth $850 million a year to the Karimovs.
If only this were a sick April Fool’s joke on your behalf Craig, to be filed with spaghetti growing on trees and the republic of San Serife.
yes – sadly not. This one really is a sickener.
I’m not sure what’s the more sickening… the platitudes about freedom, peace and democracy mouthed by our supposed representatives in the face of all this, or that our fellow citizens generally believe we’re doing the Right Thing or simply don’t care.
It is small potatoes compared to the Pentagon dollars, but Germany too is doing business with the Karimovs:
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2010/03/hbc-90006778
Glenn
I totally agree with your point. If I had to choose which I find most objectionable it would be the ‘don’t care’ attitude of the public. This is epitomized, for me, by those people in Wootton Bassett who claim on their regular TV interviews that they are just paying their respects and not taking a view about the rights or wrongs of the war. How can grown up people not take a view on a war funded by their taxes? This to me is the behaviour of the moral ostrich. I’m sure if the Taliban had an air force that could reach Wootton Bassett they would start taking a view damn quickly.
I find the platitudes about freedom, peace and democracy the most objectionable because they are part of the cynical and deliberate psychological warfare against us. Individuals who fall for it or just don’t care are also victims.
Craig
I know that you believe that troops should be withdrawn immediately from Afgahnistan and all support should be cut off fortwith from Karimov. But as both the US and Russia would envisage the consequence of this being the establishment of Islamist states in Afghanistan and Uzbekistan – I suspect that this is something that neither superpower would contemplate. You may not like this – but my guess is that this is the “realpolitick” of the situation. But given this framework what do you think that Western governments should be doing to improve the human rights situation in Uzbekistan – which I agree is truly awful and have done for many years before you became involved with Uzbekistan.
were all doomed
So stephen the Zionist does think boiling people alive is not a breach of human rights.
But just not enough of a breach to stop the aid required to boil people alive?
Stephen the Zionist, you lied on the other thread accusing me of not attacking torture in the Muslim world. But here you are defending the aid given to the torturers while we are the ones attacking it.
You are a lying little hypocrite.
The very fact that you are making excuses for the Uzbek regime and the aid given to it by the Zionists is the proof that it needs to be removed.
And your excuses tell me what sort of regime you, the Larrys, Israel and America want in the Muslim world instead of an Islamic government.
Everyone Larry with this new name has made himself clear.
He views the Uzbeck regime and the puppet drug dealing regime of Afghanistan as the acceptable alternative to an Islamic government. In part he is correct, that it is one or the other because the people there do want Islam.
But the conclusion is wrong, Islam is the alternative to Karimovs regime that boils people alive and the puppet Karzia regime the rigs elections and sells drugs.
Stephen go to hell and remain there for ever, you dirty little Nazi.
I am very sorry at this news Craig. It must be doubly distessing – a)because you have seen the results of the Karimov torture thugs’ work and b) because it is Nadira’s bhomeland.
As for that Israeli (s)Hill’s forthcoming visit- no words.
Stephen is as deeply unpleasant as the ordure he wades his way through each day.
“were all doomed”
Nah, we can spot an April Fool when we see one.
For the Home Office to claim that “there is no human rights problem in Uzbekistan” is disgusting. New Labour deserve to lose the election for this if nothing else.
In the thread previous to this one, Arsalan wrote:
“So East European women and girls, are trafficed in to Israel to be made use of as forced prostitutes.
Others are imported so they can be butchered and their kidneys sold to rich Americans.”
Craig Murray, you’ve deleted comments here before. That you allow such a comment to go undeleted and therefore allow the continued reinforcement of the historic blood libel is a logical indication of your assent to anti-Jewish hatred.
And Arsalan, you’re an anti-Semitic racist fuck. Not because you might be critical of Israeli foreign policy (fair grounds, of course) but because of your explicit racism.
OK, so now tell everyone here about the wonderful religion of Islam. These pathetic people are just waiting for religious rule.
I don’t think Stephen is the same person as Larry – he’s only half as stupid for a start, and in far more control of himself. Just look at how simple Larry wets himself and cries when he doesn’t get his own way.
Larry the liar wrote:
“reinforcement of the historic blood libel is a logical indication of your assent to anti-Jewish hatred.”
So it is Libel that Israel imports East European women and forces them in to prostitution?
It is anti semitism is it?
So the US state department are the antisemites for Libeling the Zionist Nazis! Not me!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129157,00.html
I kind of Agree with you that it must be antisemitism.
I’ve been saying all along that the Zionists are Antisemites, and you can’t get more Zionist than Fox news!
So it is Antisemitism to say Israel butchers people for Kidneys is it?
It is Libel is it?
Again it is your American government who are guility of that blood libel for arresting those innocent people.
It is the Zionist New York times wwho are the Antisemites for printing it.
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/07/23/2009-07-23_2_new_jersey_mayors_arrested_in_sweeping_money_laundering_probe.html
Larry your answer to everything is Antisemite. So from you it means nothing.
You are nothing but a capo, and I know you know what that means.
Larry:
“Israel is a destination country for men and women trafficked for the purposes of forced labor and sexual exploitation. Low-skilled workers from China, Romania, Turkey, Thailand, the Philippines, Nepal, Sri Lanka, and India migrate voluntarily and legally to Israel for contract labor in the construction, agriculture, and health care industries. Some, however, subsequently face conditions of forced labor, including the unlawful withholding of passports, restrictions on movement, non-payment of wages, threats, and physical intimidation. (U.S. State Dept Trafficking in Persons Report, June 2009)”
“Israel has admitted pathologists harvested organs from dead Palestinians, and others, without the consent of their families (The Guardian, December 21 2009)”
Your argument appears to be that it is “anti-semitic” even to mention these horrors.
“So stephen the Zionist does think boiling people alive is not a breach of human rights.”
This is the exact opposite of what I said and believe. Read what I said you ignoramus, rather than what you think I said. For someone who throws around accusations of Nazi you do seem to be particularly well versed in the techniques of Dr Goebbels.
But I don’t think the answer is to replace the Karimov regime with the Arsalan’s Islamic Caliphinate – that would be a case of out of the “boiling pot” and into the fire (or whatever is the current preferred torture method of the Islamist fascists) as well as possibly resulting in an all out nuclear war.
1. The U.S. State Department did not use that label. You’re going insane, aren’t you?
2. Human trafficking is a huge issue around the globe. Even in Britain and Ireland. And you might want to re-read that Fox News article. This is the sort of thing that we’ve come to expect from the Russian mafia.
3. Corruption in New Jersey is nothing new. Kidney trafficking is also nothing new.
4. You’ve presented exactly no evidence that the Israelis are harvesting organs from Eastern European women to sell to rich Americans.
Well now you’re just making shit up, but doing so in a way that reflects the centuries-old blood libel.
Why not blame the Jews for World War 2?
Mary
Of course your answer would be to hand back Uzbekistan to the Soviet Union – so as to provide some recompense for your hero’s (aka as George Galloway) saddest day when the Soviet Union broke up.
And as for dealing with the Karimov regime – I registered my own personal disgust and stopped my dealings with Uzbekistan back in 1997 – this was well before the saintly Craig even started his involvement. The true nature of the regime was known even in those days – I seem to recall a New Statesman article back in 1996.
My original question to Craig was about was is actually possible – rather than what may be unachievable.
Arsalan is such a sad, twisted case that he thinks that anyone who disagrees with him is a Zionist agent.
He equates Stephen with me. He equates me with a Zionist agent in Israel.
No worries, though – his religious instruction of you people will start back up soon.
Larrr by another name, What weasel words are you going to change the meaning of :
“all support should be cut off fortwith from Karimov. But as both the US and Russia would envisage the consequence of this being the establishment of Islamist states in Afghanistan and Uzbekistan”
Your antisemite shrecks might succeed in shutting up others who are against Israel but it will not work with me.
I repeat, Zionists are the Nazis, you are the Garbles.
So stick your Garbals and your antisemite slogans up your arse!
They wont work on me.
And again he defends the existence of the Karimov torture regime with the same excuse:
“Islamic Caliphinate – that would be a case of out of the “boiling pot” and into the fire ”
And just after he denied defending boiling people alive speaking from one of his arses he repeats it from the other arse!
Karmiovs boiling people alive is better than what he calls the fire that will be an Islamic state.
I traditionally we would use the word two faced to describe someone like Larry by another name. But each time he speaks he seems to be talking out of his arse, so would two arsed be a better description?
And the we have the old Larry trying to keep a balance between defending Israel while refraining from attacking the Zionist publications of the Zionist country that says what old Larry calls libel and antisemitism.
He failed, to continue to state they were libel, instead he went down the root of saying, “well Israel does chop people up to steal Kidneys and kidnap women to force them to be prostitutes, but to criticise it still makes you an antisemitic because everybody does it”
Larry, both old and new, your shrieks of antisemitism and blood libel wont veil Israels crimes any more.
You have turned the veil of your antisemite slogan in to a filthy cloth with over use. it has lost all meaning now.
Shout it as much as you like, no will will listen any more.
Ach, we are not doomed, but most of our elected representatives are, if only by their consciences. I have been thinking (most unusual) and I think this country are in for a shock Lib Dem government. I’m not alone, either. As in Spain, people are not going to take this any more.
I spent most of the 2001 election irritatingly pointing out that if everyone who said that they’d vote Lib Dem if the Lib Dems had a chance of winning did vote Lib Dem, then they would win. I think the point has been reached. I’m not euphorically optimistic (who could be in our corporate structure?) but I can sense a breathing space coming. And that makes me happy.
The proposed Lib Dem bill on Civil Liberties is a good thing. I presume they’d also adopt a more enlightened approach to victims of torture and persecution. I am interested to find out.
Arsalan, I don’t want an argument, and I sympathise with your frustration with the Larry poster to the nth degree, but I followed your links and found the following:
Link 1: Prostitutes are being smuggled from the former Soviet Union into Israel.
Link 2: Some people in Jersey, many of them Jewish, were arrested on charges of money laundering. One Jewish man was arrested for buying kidneys from vulnerable people in Israel and selling them on. Sickening, of course. But it looks as though he had not been tried at the time of the article you post. Even so the spokesman for the Orthodox Jewish community condemned this entirely.
I’ve just seen To Shoot an Elephant (an excellent, terrible film about Gaza). Are the visible, obvious actions of the Israeli government not appalling enough, without assertions of state complicity in widespread organ harvesting? Especially if you link to pieces which only show that a man in America traded in kidneys, a man who was then arrested by the US authorities.
Back in 2008 a Haaretz poll showed that 64% of Israelis backed talks with Hamas. The people are not the government, as we here should surely know. By the way, human trafficking happens here, so does organ selling. As a UK citizen do you feel involved or complicit?
Do please post further links, by all means. In the meantime, I’d be interested to know if there’s a country you believe to be an exemplar of Islamic rule? I’d like to go there 🙂
Again Larry with his old name takes a dig at Islam for his devide and rule perposes:
“OK, so now tell everyone here about the wonderful religion of Islam. These pathetic people are just waiting for religious rule.”
Just before he post again to cry Antisemitism, with his usual hypocrisy.
Tech my attack was against the government that allows these women to be kidnapped, imprisoned and prostituted. It has been going on for a very long time, and if the women escape they are the ones locked up, often given back to the pimps.
The Zionist Newspaper a linked to isn’t the only news report on this issue, Amnesty and other have been reporting on it for a very long time, including the Zionist governments complicity.
But I wanted to put the Larrys in a situation where they would either have to condemn Israel or the Zionist media.
Larry choose to do neither by saying every body does it.
The same applies on the Kidney issue, it has been reported for a very long time, in a lot more detail.
If I linked to amnesty and other human rights organisation, Larry and the other Larry would just say their normal Jew hater reply.
If you want more details on both sets of cases, it isn’t hard to find such information from repeatable organisations.
Larry,
I know from absolutely first hand that Uzbek girls are trafficked to Israel for prostitution – second biggest destination for them after Dubai.
Organ harvesting stories turned up in Poland, Nigeria and Uzbekistan while I was there. I tend to think it’s one of those urban myths.
Stephen,
I don’t think we shuould kid ourselves how much we can affect Uzbekistan, but we should treat it much as we treat Burma and North Korea.
We should, however, debunk the fundamentalist threat myth every time it rears. Uzbeks are vodka drinkers. Less than 5% would support a taliban style regime – well less, I would say.
Tech
“a country you believe to be an exemplar of Islamic rule? I’d like to go there :)”
So would I! 🙂
But in the mean time I am going to live in one of the gulf countries.
Not because I consider them truly Islamic, more to do with the fact they can speak English there.
I can speak Arabic, but unfortunately, most Arabs can’t. They speak local slangs that non Arabs like myself who have learnt the language from classes and the Quran can not understand.
I don’t feel safe bringing up a family in the UK any more.
I think I’ll leave the Larrys to guy s now. My kids are back, from school so they need my attention.
Bye,
What weasel words are you going to change the meaning of :
“all support should be cut off fortwith from Karimov. But as both the US and Russia would envisage the consequence of this being the establishment of Islamist states in Afghanistan and Uzbekistan”
None at all – apart from the inclusion of the rest of eact sentence from which these clauses were extracted.
But then of course you have the right to extract anyone’s words in whatever manner you wish and then place whatever interpretation you wish on them – don’t you?
Just because – I think that an Islamist Caliphinate would replace Karimov’s torture methods – it does not follow that I endorse Karimov instead. So as well as defining how the English language works you also belive you can define how logic works as well.
And as for libel – have you any idea how insulting it is to call those Jews who support the State of Israel nazis – given that nearly all of them will have lost relatives to the Nazis.
My views on Karimov and torture are stated very clearly elsewhere in the posts.
Barbarians at the gates of Gaza, again, and again. No names are sufficient. I was told a few days ago that the people were ‘expectant’.
I have written of vengeance being strong within these chosen people – Talmud style. Gilad Shalit is part of this. 11000 Palestinians in prison with about 300 children is not equivalent to one French/Israeli with a kipvah.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1160408.html
Palestinians: IDF drops leaflets over Gaza warning of imminent attack
The Israel Defense Forces on Thursday denied Palestinian reports that its troops had disseminated notices over a residential area of the Gaza Strip warning of an upcoming military strike.
Palestinians reported that Israel dropped thousands of leaflets overnight, warning residents to “wait for the response tomorrow.”
Witnesses said the flyers were dropped in several locations on the border of the salient, including the area east of Khan Younis, where two IDF soldiers and two militants were killed in a clash last weekend.
Meanwhile, Israel Navy patrol boats opened fire at a Palestinian fishing vessel off the coast of Gaza early Thursday, an IDF spokesman in Tel Aviv said.
He said the Palestinian boat had strayed into waters off-limits to Palestinian fishermen, and did not heed orders to halt, causing the
Israeli ships to fire warning shots.
There were no reports of injuries or damage.
“Even last week the Home Office was still claiming at immigration hearings that there is no human rights problem in Uzbekistan.”
I’m dumbstruck.