I received this in an email from the local LibDems – as a joke, I hasten to add.
It does cause me some difficulty. I had to dig deep to get past the second question and avoid voting UKIP, but then found it almost impossible to skip past the Greens to my home as a Lib Dem!!
1970, I ought to have said.
I wonder how much people will whinge when the Belgians finally get it together to invade us. Do you think they’ll still be bleating on about ‘peaceful immigration equals genocide’ when they’re being forced to eat sprouts at gunpoint?
It’s tragic, really. Genocide looks like Iraq, not effing Stoke on Trent. I think the Martians have landed already.
Alfred: sorry if my previous posts seemed rude, it feels a bit like talking behind your back (although you can, of course, read it). I just don’t understand where your passion for this comes from. If you were in favour of making sure that a place’s original inhabitants were not dispossessed by incomers, either from the UK or abroad, by concentrating & improving shops, transport and other services and by building more houses, for example, I would understand. It would be sensible fiscal as well as social policy. But instead you want to cut & deport; as if you see some kind of pre-lapserian pink Britain emerging from the ashes.
But I can picture your policies everywhere; from bustling London markets, to the communities in Blackburn, and they would result in desolation; in echoing spaces where people and families once shopped and played. We would be left with the ashes.
Hey Angry,
I’m still puzzled by your masthead!
Glenn,
I have long thought it likely that the BNP is a scam. Last September I wrote this:
“Given that MI6 ran Germany’s post-war Nazi party, that the Jew, Joseph Cohen, alias Frank Collins, ran the US Nazi party and that the Canadian Jewish Congress funded Canada’s one-man Nazi party, does it not seem probably that the BNP is also run by MI6 or some other hidden entity with the object of discrediting citizens who quite reasonably oppose mass immigration to Britain, one of the World’s smallest and most densely populated countries?
Why else would the BNP, headed by a lawyer, and a person, therefore, of presumed intelligence and discrimination, discredit itself by running ex-Nazis and others of questionable repute for election to Parliament?”
The original statement is on this page:
http://canadianspectator.ca/zarchive.034.html
where there are links to various sources.
Events seem to bear me out. Through a series of unbelievably stupid antics, e.g., pulling people’s noses, being secretly filmed insulting African immigrants, appearing on a party political broadcast with a jar of Marmite, Nick Griffin has managed to throw more than three hundred BNP candidates under the bus. Remember, after the Question Time appearance of Nick Griffin, 22% of viewers agreed that “the BNP have a point” and eight percent said they would consider voting BNP. Today, I bet not zero point eight will actually vote BNP.
Re: human variation.
I try to view it scientifically. Biologists are interested in mechanisms and what they imply. But what is known of the mechanisms of human variation and what they imply is not a whole lot. So biology rarely supports the kind of sweeping statements that some people make.
However, populations really do differ in appearance, physique and physical and physiological attributes. I find that wonderful to behold. That’s one reason I hate globalization. I really do hope that all this fascinating diversity will still be here in hundreds of years.
Further, I think that the capacity of the human race to survive a changing world will be greatly reduced if we throw all the diverse forms of our species into a global melting pot. This is why, although I enjoy living in a society (Canada) that is a racial melting pot, I don’t want to see every society a melting pot. I want there to go on being Chinese and Vietnamese and Zulus and Pakistanis and the thousand other ethnicities, including the British. And for that, each ethnicity needs a homeland.
The British are a rather small race and they have a small homeland. I hope they can keep it.
Suhayl,
Re: “Furthermore, I really do think that it is necessary that we come to see the movements of populations and individuals not as a ‘problem’ per se, but as a ‘situation’, a reality that has always existed in this world and which will continue to exist for as long as the human species continues to exist.”
A common difficulty for you literary folks, is to grasp the significance of quantity. Yes people have always come and gone from Britain’s shores. But today’s mass and largely illegal immigration is not only the largest invasion that Britain has ever experienced but a real and present threat to the continued existence of the British people, a unique population with roots in Britain going back 9000 years.
“A common difficulty for you literary folks”
Ooh, bitchy bitchy.
This increasingly reminds me of discussions around “the war on drugs”. What I mean is, making things illegal doesn’t stop necessarily them happening. When there is a demand for them it can also set up a “survival of the fittest” economic environment that selects for Mafia, as it has wrt immigrants & drugs. It would be much healthier for us to find ways of restructuring these issues so that it wouldn’t be profitable for criminals to invest in becoming organised.
“Today’s mass and largely illegal immigration”.
To whom are you referring, Alfred?
“a real and present threat to the continued existence of the British people, a unique population with roots in Britain going back 9000 years.”
How?
Alfred, I’m sure Duke William of Normandy, the Conqueror, would disagree with you. That was the last real mass invasion of the island of Great Britain.
Immigration is not an invasion.
We are absolutely not even facing a massive level of immigration, not compared to some other countries (eg. Syria, Pakistan, Iran and many others) which I mentioned in a previous post on the Immigration thread.
This kind of panic-mongering is really irresponsible and is a fiction.
Our governments and the economic system they service generate disclocation, war, economic hell for millions – billions – of inhabitants of the planet. That is one of the main reasons there are people who want to migrate.
The British are not “a race”.
The biological model on its own has long been discredited as a means of explaining the socialised animal species that is humanity.
Are David Steel’s grandchildren – the Bhatias – part of “the British race”? You see how silly this gets. The concept itself holds no water and never did.
Btw, I may be an effete librettist/ novelist/ whatever, but you know, I’m also a scientist. And I deal with humanity of all colours, creeds and social classes. And you know what? I feel humbled and privileged.
Britian is far better because of immigration over hundreds of years and since WW2. Britian is Britian because of constant immigration over 3,000+ years.
Britain, I mean.
“- a real and present threat to the continued existence of the British people, a unique population with roots in Britain going back 9000 years.
– How? ”
Theme Park UK. Come and view this protected enviroment populated exclusively by quaint ethnics that believe themselves flatly unable to deal with the world beyond their shores.
And Richard speaks as a man who jolly well knows his old British ‘folk’ tunes!
Alfred, you are either an immigrant or a descendant of immigrants. You have exported British culture outward and I have imported aspects of other cultures inwards, while Richard, I sense, has explored it in geopoetic terms. All are valid. All are British. And yet you speak without irony. But before you begin to talk of ‘invasions’, there is no parallel b/w the situation of the American Indians and that of the majority white communities in the UK.
Attempting to rationalise for and inflame a movement whose boot boys are currently marching (albeit with varying degrees of success) through our towns is nothing to be proud of, Alfred.
Richard,
Re: “A common difficulty for you literary folks”
That was not an intended slight. It is a generalization and though, like all generalizations, false, it has some validity as illustrated, for example, by Winston Churchill’s self-confessed difficulty with the “damned dot” when he served, incompetently, as Chancellor of the Exchequer.
That literary people do have difficulty in dealing with concepts of quantity is not surprising since, with some exceptions, they have little training or experience in handling matters quantitatively. Suhayl demonstrates my point with his comments about the Norman conquest. The Normans left very little trace in Britain’s gene pool, according to DNA studies by Oxford University population geneticist, Bryan Sykes, whose book I have cited here before. The Normans replaced the ruling elite, while leaving the population largely undisturbed, as did the British in India. If it only took ten thousand Brits to administer the Indian Empire, how many Normans do you think it required to rule Britain?
Technicolor,
Re: “a real and present threat to the continued existence of the British people, a unique population with roots in Britain going back 9000 years.”
You ask “How?”
I already explained how in a dozen paragraphs in response to a question from Anon. If you haven’t read what said there, I don’t expect you would read it with any attention if I repeated it here.
Suhayl,
“Immigration is not an invasion.”
Come on, man! You’re a wordsmith. Don’t play games about the meaning of words.
Of course mass immigration is an invasion. And, to those who seek to avoid the destruction of the British race it is a disaster.
As for Britain not facing the same scale of immigration as some other countries, so what? It’s like saying Britain’s casualties during the World Wars were of no account because Russia’s were so much greater.
‘The British are not “a race”‘ This is what you and Craig and what some might call traitors within the ranks keep saying, but it does not alter the dictionary definition of race or the biologists definition of race, in accordance with which the British are undoubtedly a race, just as are the Chinese, the Luo, the Yanomamo and the Innu.
But, then, you’re pushing the settler line, aren’t you, and that really leaves no room for worthwhile discussion.
Ach, Suhayl. (it’s an irish ‘ach’, by the way). How long has this been going on? Forever, probably. Alfred? Do you remember the ‘discussion’ about American Indians with dreoilin? Do you remember that you couldn’t substantiate either your facts or your statements back then? Could you therefore answer my questions this time?
Richard, well, I confess to having recent visions of a small island where all the violent power-hungry grey-pink people can go, myself. But there aren’t really enough of them to sustain a community, and nor would their nature incline them to, I suspect. I guess we have to look after them 🙂
Oh Lord, I need to listen to some Shelagh MacDonald or Sandy Denny, or Richard Thompson or Ian Whiteman or Danny Thompson or Yusuf Islam or…
How is Craig a “traitor”, for goodness sake? This man almost gave his life – he represents what is best about British people.
Alfred, do you consider yourself more ‘British’ than Craig Murray’s youngest son?
… or Lord David Steel’s grandchildren? Or ‘Irish’ Technicolour, or me? And if so, on what basis, exactly.
“what some might call traitors”, hey? In danger of lapsing into BNP speak, Alfred.
Yes, I read all your stuff about ‘miscegenation’ and ‘mating’. I watched Drag Me to Hell last night, too. Your point? That too many British people are voluntarily shagging people with more melatoninin and that this amounts to the destruction of the British race?
Come again?
Thanks for the incredulity generated by the comparison of British immigration to British deaths in World War 2, though. I don’t think my jaw’s dropped for ages.
And this is brilliant!
“Come on, man! You’re a wordsmith. Don’t play games about the meaning of words. Of course mass immigration is an invasion.”
Yes, Suhayl, don’t you try and pretend that one word is completely different to another word, you wordsmith. Look, apple, potato. Apple potato. An apple is a potato. Immigration is invasion.
Duh.
“And, to those who seek to avoid the destruction of the British race it is a disaster.”
Bless you, Alfred. I presume that while you’re not trying to make extreme right wing propaganda sound reasonable (a useful exercise, I’m sure) you’re volunteering to help poor old people, or undernourished kids or something. No?
Alfred – “Suhayl demonstrates my point with his comments about the Norman conquest. The Normans left very little trace in Britain’s gene pool”
I took his point to be, that *that* was an invasion.
“I already explained how in a dozen paragraphs in response to a question from Anon.”
That anon. was me, sorry. Your reply cited various good solid physical characteristics that I wouldn’t dispute as ‘genetic’, My doubts were concerning the rather more abstract claims.
– “Of course mass immigration is an invasion. And, to those who seek to avoid the destruction of the British race it is a disaster. … But, then, you’re pushing the settler line, aren’t you, and that really leaves no room for worthwhile discussion”
You seem to state your beliefs and refuse to talk with those that don’t share them.
Hello Richard,
Thanks for not jumping down my throat!
My refusal to discuss is with those who refuse to discuss the issue that I originally raised: the plight of twenty percent of the British workforce that is reduced to poverty, humiliating social irrelevance (except as a problem), and deracination.
As to those who raise silly race-baiting questions, they can go and piss up a rope.
“Thanks for not jumping down my throat!”
It must be the way I tell them.
‘miscegentation’; ‘mating’: ‘silly race-baiting questions’…
‘miscegentation’; ‘mating’: ‘silly race-baiting questions’…
Not to mention “deracination” and, I believe, “indigenous race”, “The British race”.
I get the impression that Alfred is a fascist in fascist clothing.
He’s got some weird ideas about how the BNP are some kind of New World Order plot to discredit perfectly good fascist ideas by making them seem, well…fascist.
Alfred doesn’t seem to consider a more obvious possibility. That Nick Griffin and his holocaust-denying cohorts are actually genuine fascists. Griffin, for example, was in the National Front – which actually make the BNP (as disgusting as they are) look comparatively mild, and had been a fan of Hitler since his adolesence. I know the New World Order are supposed to be smart and secretive but do you really think they’ve been training Nick Griffin since his teens for this election?
Ah! But Alfred has a precedent. Remember them Jews who became fascists. The American Nazi Party guy. Nevermind the fact that they already had a leader in George Lincoln Rockwell and his bunch of fascists.
There is a distinct innuendo going on here with Alfred who seems to be suggesting that Jews are making fascist parties and fascist policies disreputable.
“Hey Angry,
I’m still puzzled by your masthead!”
It means I work for the New World Order, the Bilderbergers, the Council of Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission and the Jews.
Our mission is to destroy the “white race” with mass immigration and deracination initiatives and you’ll no doubt be glad to know that I am doing my but with a young lady from the Trilateral Commission.
So there!
Lucky you! Is she a mezzo-soprano, btw?
Yes, it’s interesting that once induced to delineate his core political beliefs, this core turns out to be very dark indeed.
The theory that the BNP are associating themselves with ‘anti-imperialist’, ant-corporatist policies globally simply in order to discredit those policies among the electorate doesn’t really hold water. When someone, says, “I’m against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan”, very few people would automatically think, “Ah, so you must be BNP then, so that means I ought to support the wars because I’m not a racist and anyone who is against the wars must be a racist”. The logic is not sound. It just doesn’t work. The majority of people in the UK associate people on the Far Right with Nazism and Fascism – and justly so – regardless of whether or not they support a particular war or economic policy or masquerade as Anti-Isarael/ Pro-Isareal/ anti-Military/ Pro-Military.
The BNP are associating with these policies simply as ‘populist’ opportunists.
They capitalise on the ground vacated by (esp. the discredited ‘New’) Labour Government – the NF, BNP et al all tend to rise more during Labour Government tenures and this is for various reasons.
The real effect of the BNP et al on the ground is to stymie the development of a grassroots party which represents the interests of those ‘20%’ to whom Alfred refers, though of course the various Socialist parties tend to make a very good job of scuppering their own chances all by themselves!
That’s not to say that Special Branch, the SS et al don’t try to manipulate both Nazis and Anti-Nazis to serve the agenda of the ‘corporate security state’. They do infiltrate and manipulate, and have always done so. I like the idea of the BNP as “hard state rent-boys”, it appeals to my sense of the absurd and also degrades the Wagnerian masculinity which they like to project. But that’s different from saying the whole thing is a single coherent organised plot. It’s not as simple as that. It’s very complex. ‘It’s complex because it’s the system, man’ and industrialised societies are not simple entites. Power has many centres, not just one; often these centres compete, sometimes they cooperate. They all act in their own, narrow interests.
And even if one did think that the BNP exists as a ‘damning-by-association’ water closet for anti-imperialists, it does not follow that one then would espouse wholheartdely the core racialist agenda of the BNP and other Far Right groups, the long discredited entire panoply of ‘race’ as a C19th construct.
There’s no point saying someone saying they don’t agree with the BNP when they then go on to espouse a core agenda which accords perfectly with their own twisted beliefs.
The whole thing has no logic. And – this is very important – no sense of irony.
I heard Griffin on the radio, somewhere in the dark hours. He’s away with the fairies.
Lovely comments. Yes, I think Griffin’s for the chop. Too much dirt on him, for one thing. I wonder what happens to an ex-leader of an extremist far-right party who’s mired in violence? Blair became the public face of Louis Vuitton, of course. Perhaps Griffin will become the public face of Primark?
Still can’t get over the description of Cameron, which someone posted earlier, as ‘C3P0 made out of ham’.
DES-TROY THE PALESTIN… I mean THE BRITISH
DES-TROY THE PALESTIN… I mean THE BRITISH
The Palestin… I mean British people, do not exist.
The Palestin… I mean British people, do not exist.
Oh, how ironic.