You really do need to watch all of this video from the Christian Broadcasting Network:
A couple of years ago, while giving a lecture at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, I was astonished when a lecturer told me that half of his students would agree with the proposition that a war in the Middle East would lead to Armageddon, and that would be a good thing. In Ann Arbor, bot the Deep South.
The extent to which US support for Israel is driven by these christian violent religious extremists should not be underestimated. They are a major force in US politics.
The extraordinary thig is that violent religious extremists in both the US and Israel look forward to fighting sude by side against the forces of evil in the Last Battle in the Middle East, yet extremist jews and extremist christians each also believe that at the climax, when the world ends, their cherished allies will go to Hell with their enemies.
It is of course the American christians who are the most destructive violent religious extremists in the world.
“So you have, then. Thanks.”
Have we just entered the Twilight Zone?
What in gibbering fuck are you gibbering about?
Rather than regarding this issue as a contest between extreme Christianity and Judaism on the one hand versus extreme Islam on the other, isn’t it obvious that the problem is the extremism itself?
Whenever people start thinking along the lines of “My idea of ultimate reality (in this case God) is absolutely correct and everyone who disagrees one scintilla is going to hell, so who cares if they die, and by the way the end of the world is next week”, it is time to start worrying.
If these same people are strongly influencing the foreign policy of a country with the military and diplomatic power of the US, which we would hope would be based on rational self-interest of some sort, it is time to start worrying even more.
As for those three monotheistic religions, they have all shown varying degrees of tolerance and intolerance in the past: what’s the point of arguing which is better or worse?
One might add that before the atheists amongst us get too smug it should be noted that the dogmatic atheism of Mao and Stalin (just another variation on ideological intolerance) surely takes the prize for millions dead through ideologically-based murder, even beating Hitler’s insane master-race delusions.
He’s not anonymous, I am.
“You’re Australian.”
“You’re Anonymous.”
“Angrysoba,
Have you ever used the handle “Mandible Claw”?”
“And the punchline is…?”
Posted by: angrysoba
My my my … Strange how you have an aversion to simple questions. Are you ashamed to be Australian, just as Larry is ashamed to take ownership of his blog?
“My my my … Strange how you have an aversion to simple questions. Are you ashamed to be Australian, just as Larry is ashamed to take ownership of his blog? ”
That’s right MacIntyre. Now please show me what I am supposed to be responsible for.
I don’t recall using the word responsible. I was alluding to you ducking simple questions.
“I was alluding to you ducking simple questions.”
Didn’t you do the same?
I don’t recall anyone suggesting my nationality, or any other handle I might have used online. I recall being asked if I used a raincoat. As to my whereabouts, that’s my affair.
I understand your point Merlin which is/was the thrust of my previous posts.
We understand extremism exists wherever we look; torture by intelligence agencies, in politics (the BNP comes to mind), the media in propaganda (the falling statue of Saddam), the military (false-flag) or even in the play-ground where argument can turn to name-calling, intimidation and bullying.
The danger as I have suggested and in which Craig sowed the seed is subversion or eroding the basis of belief in the status quo or setting people against each other as discussed here.
Even attempts to subvert Craig’s blog must be recognised and understood at the fundamental level as destructive.
Political subversion is rife and I believe even the ‘war on terror’ is subversion invoking cultural hegemony and all the evils accompanied we have witnessed past ten years or more.
So if fact Craig’s post here is a stark warning, an important message and one that we Brits seem strangely impervious to subversion and unaffected to a degree.
This cultural strength is our blessing and all of us should strive to identify it and pass on our insight and reasoning to educate and enlighten those that have succumbed.
Total posts = 130
Post count:
13 Larry from St. Louis
12
10 glenn
8 angrysoba
8 Mark Golding – Children of Iraq
7 super390
6 Michael
6 Jon
5 McIntyre
4 Suhayl Saadi
3 Nomad
2 somebody
2 ingo
2 Richard Robinson
2 Philip
2 Paul
2 Neil Barker
2 Monty
2 Mac
2 MJ
2 Andrew
2 Abe Rene
1 mike cobley
1 johnf
1 brian powell
1 arsalan
1 amk
1 Vronsky
1 Steelback
1 Sean
1 Roderick Russell
1 Paul Johnston
1 NomadUK
1 Mr M
1 Merlin
1 Matthew Huntbach
1 Mat
1 Losing Larry of St Foodstamps
1 JimmyGiro
1 Ishmael
1 Ingo
1 Freeborn
1 Exclusive
1 Daniel Hoffmann-Gill
1 Craig
1 Courtenay Barnett
1 Clark
1 Apostate
Jonathan Pollard was me yielding to the temptation to engage self-declared super US patriot & self-evident super Islamophobe Larry; yes I took his usual “Islam is Evil” derailing bait, but since he appears not to be appearing, perhaps you might like to reply, afterall you do tend to share the same intolerance of all things Islamic.
Your initial post was to go on a virtual World tour via Chechnya , Philippines, etc, etc Classic “whataboutery”, as you set-up a straw-man argument in ascribing what Mark Golding had stated about the Iraqi Shia Death Squads, as applying to your world tour of hotspots. If you actually want to refute what CM said about American Christians, then you better address that specific issue.
If I had the time or inclination, I’m sure that even those cases that you sighted, if explored properly, there’s probably a lot of underlying Western involvement; a bit like the recent “spike” in (darn Muslims killing Muslims again) PKK attacks:
http://alethonews.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/israel-escalating-terror-in-turkey/
(Also can you elaborate a bit about your “elephant in the room”)
“(Also can you elaborate a bit about your “elephant in the room”)”
Well, there must be _some_ explanation for this huge heap of shit we’re looking at ?
Michael [Petek], it is entirely false to suggest that:
“the promise of the End Times and the Second Coming of Christ is immaterial as to whether it is justified to steal Palestinian land”
Rapturists believe that Christ will come again if Israel is “returned to God’s chosen people”, and in their mind they’ve decided that the Jews are God’s chosen people, from what it says in the Old Testament. Hence, they believe that the Palestinians must be driven out of the region before Armageddon can happen. In believing this, they then oppose the Palestinians on principle, just as they support Israel reflexively. I don’t think I have to explain this to you, and wonder if in your first comment you’re being disingenuous? Indeed, I think you are one of those people, and it is for this frankly bizarre reasoning that you hold to your Israel-can-do-no-wrong position.
“or whether it [Palestine] is stolen at all”.
Hmm. The state of Israel created was slap-bang in the middle of Palestine, where people were actually living already. Sure, all countries are illegitimate, since they’ve all been stolen at some point, and had imperial blood spilled upon them. But if a population is displaced by another violently, as is the case here, then its legitimacy must be called into question, +in a secular way+. You seem to want to go back several centuries, or millenia, in a desparate attempt to delegitimise the Palestinian people’s wish for a safe homeland.
“You don’t have to be a Christian to hold that Islam is a false religion”.
This is a question that begs the point you wish to prove. I am not a Muslim, but it might be a good religion to follow for Muslims. I wish for them to follow it if that is really what they wish to do. But I don’t regard any of the major religions are more valid than another, and neither should you. I think they can all be valid, in their way, and each God is largely a set of cultural preferences overlaid onto a World Creator and Omnipotent Protector figure. But we have covered this before, and you insist on sticking to your position even though (a) you can’t prove it, (b) you won’t prove it, and (c) you ignore calls to prove it or desist.
In any case, you have again shown your true colours. You dislike the Palestinians because they are Muslim, and then try to justify your racism with your cries of “false religion”. If the Palestinians were to convert to your preferred Christian/Jewish sect, would you be in favour of returning to them the land marked out by the 1967 borders, and removing all the Israeli settlers in the occupied territories? Another question for you to ignore!
A reason for everything.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19873
This one’s for Larry,the shills and all the brain-dead dingbats here who ask shallow questions and only ever get shallow answers.
Hurry it won’t be up for long!
Patrick Grimm in great form:Boy Were You Ever Wrong!
http://patrickgrimm/typepad.com/zionist-watch/
on topic from Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer:
“The Hebrew Scriptures, the Christian New Testament, and the Quran contain stories urging compassionate living, social justice, and ethical conduct. The collective weight of all passages in these texts that advocate ethical behavior or present evidence of a loving, compassionate God cannot, however, overcome the violent images and expectations of God that overwhelm these ‘sacred’ texts. God’s violence or human violence justified in service to God is sometimes understood to be the principal means to justice in, or at the end of, history. At other times, ethical conduct is urged under the threat of God’s punishing violence. God’s violence is at times so pervasive, unpredictable, vindictive, or destructive that it reflexts a deep and troubling pathology. In such cases, we can say that if human beings acted as God does or as God tells them to act, they would be rightfully be considered certifiably insane.”
From Is Religion Killing Us?
Violence in the Bible and the Quran
Let’s get to it, Jon.
(1) Does God exist or not?
(2) Is Mohammed a true messenger of God or not?
You can’t justly wage jihad unless you can truthfully and without error answer ‘yes’ to both questions.
Michael if someone of any religion including Atheists read three or more of your post they might end up justifying Jihad against you.
Someone doesn’t need to be a Muslim to recognise you as the Nazi you are.
If we would do a vote on it here, I can tell you exactly how it would go.
You will say you are not a Nazi.
Everyone else but two will say you are.
Anry and Larry will remain silent on the issue because they are really embarresed by you.
You do not do Zionism any favours with your support.
So I am really glad you are on their side and not ours.
Thanks Michael for engaging – only partially mind you – but I am not sure what you are setting out to show. My answers to your questions, in case you want a full answer from me personally:
1. Maybe. I don’t have any evidence that he (or she) does, but since one can’t prove a negative, I can’t prove that he/she does not exist either.
2. I don’t strongly believe that he is, but I am aware that some people believe this. Such a belief is culturally relevant for them, just as other people prefer Moses or Jesus as the messenger.
No comments from you, though on:
1. The fact that a belief in the Rapture is directly connected to the Israel/Palestine question, and that you were not being helpful to deliberately state otherwise;
2. Whether you personally believe in the Rapture, Armageddon, Revelations etc and the returning of Israel to “God’s chosen people” [sic] being a prophesied precursor to Christ’s coming again;
3. Whilst you are at it, comment on whether you think that it is possible that a belief in (2) can (and does) engender a biased Israel can-do-no-wrong worldview in some people, and that the view is focussed sometimes on hastening the end of the world and ignores human rights entirely
4. Why you are determined that no part of Palestine should belong to the Palestinians;
5. Why you think that your sect is a true religion, and why you keep asserting that Islam is a false one, even though you cannot through secular means prove either assertion to anyone;
6. Whether, if the Palestinians were to convert to an acceptable religion, you would be in favour of returning to them the land marked out by the 1967 borders, and removing all the Israeli settlers in the occupied territories?
I am generally quite open about answering things, I think, so I wonder if you could have a genuine attempt at those questions. I hope I would be willing to concede on any point if you show me to be wrong, and conversely I hope that you are prepared to give some ground too?
Everyone who disagrees with you is a Nazi, isn’t he Arsehole?
If I’m wrong I’ll eat my German helmet.
Agreed, Jon, they can believe what they like. But if someone wages jihad against me and claims Koranic justification for doing so, then the truth claims for the Koran are something I must judge of. If a religion or world view other tham Islam is true, therefore Islam is false, then I’m objectively justified in impaling him Vlad-style.
You’re very silly (par for the course around here) if you believe that Americans who support the right of Israel to exist do so only because they believe in some supernatural rapture.
You are surrounded by people in Britain who believe that Israel has a right to exist, yet don’t believe in the rapture.
I know very few people in the States who believe in any rapture. I’ve encountered it a few times in my life, and I’ve always taken note that I’m talking to someone who needs to get real.
@Michael, How about if somebody causes others to wage jihad against you and claims Talmud Torah justifications for doing so ? Will you also be objectively justified in impaling the Zionist Vlad-style ?
Answer to Mac:
Yes. Because if Christianity is true, then he’s a blood-traitor to his King.
If The Talmud-Torah is false, then same reasons as before.
Michael are these people anything to do with you and yours?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e1a_1173546939
Do you agree about she she said should happen to Harry?
“I know very few people in the States who believe in any rapture.”
Posted by: Larry from La-La-Land
As you mentioned yourself, the USA is a very big place. The percentage of 300 million that you know personally is obviously very very small.
Ah, Mr Petek, you are still here after all. Well, jings ma boab!
And that, Michael, is an exhortation to worldwide jihad as enunciated by Ashtaroth the Demon, naked Prince of Hell on the 99th day of the 13th Sabbat of the Witches of the Holy Land of the South Saxons, as ventroliquised by Wild Nancy of the Ayrshire kirk.
Just thought you’d like to know.
Anonymous blogger at… 0938am, sorry, I didn’t have web access earlier today. Nonetheless, I think Richard Robinson answered your very pertinent question very well.
Yes, I do think that it is obvious that this website has been the subject of targeted attacks of various sorts. We saw this very clearly en masse during Israel’s murderous attack on the charity ship.
But I agree that there have been more subtle and/or more relentless weaponry directed against it. The major aim of much of this appears to be – as our host surmised several months ago – to discredit it, to associate it lexicographically as well as thematically with crackpot notions and to keep repeating the same, linking phrases again and again, as well as to demoralise, corral and insult.
While Michael P, for example, seems to adhere like sticky-backed plastic to the notion of ‘The Rapture’ (one senses an Eisenstein triptych but one fashioned in Disneyland), our man in cyberspace and champion bird-watcher, Larry Louis the Beatific, the Caliph of Seattle and First Lord of the District of Columbia, bears a closer resemblance to a raptor.
This is only to be expected. It’s part of the medium, it’s a fact of the interface of the political website of a dissident. And Craig is a dissident.
I fully expect this post to be attacked and also mocked very quickly – it generally happens when someone critiques the modus operandum of those likely to be involved. Wait for it…. here it comes.
The secret, of course, is to continually remind one another of that which is politically important, to relish linguistic combat and above all, to remember to laugh.
Steelback – out of curiosity, I followed your link to Patrick Grimm’s blog. I confess I normally skip your input, since I think you use several pseudonyms here, and I don’t think there is any need for that cloak-and-dagger approach.
It seems that Grimm (whose writing style itself is not unpleasant) has identified that money men are ruining the world, and that would find much agreement across the political spectrum. But unfortunately he has then identified that those money men are predominantly Jewish, which is open to doubt, and that criminality is a predominantly Jewish failing – which is plainly racist and wrong.
Here is Grimm defending himself against the charge of “hating all Jews”:
> When a corporate raider or a white collar criminal of any kind is
> arrested, nine times out of ten that individual will be a Jew. When a
> hard-core pornographer is brought forth on charges, nine times out of ten
> he will be a Jew. You know it and I know it. Yet you probably would prefer
> I call such a person a “Zionist” even when this label may or may not be
> accurate.
Do you +actually+ believe this stuff? Even aside from the overt racism, how would you explain that selfishness, greed, criminality are specifically Jewish traits – genetics? Negative cultural influences?
I am often intrigued at alternative political theories, but yours does appear to be quite barking mad, and an elaborate cover for racist hatred. Are you an agent provocateur?
@Michael, So it seems that you are admitting that you consider that all Jews (Zionists or not) are “blood-traitors” to Christ, and that Judaism is false; so this with the fact that many analysts (as well as common-sense, as well as being self-declared), acknowledge that the primacy cause of a lot of “Islamic terrorism” is “blow-back” iro Western support for Zionists crimes against Arabs, should mean that by your own logic & justification that you should be just as ready to “impale” Jews as you are Muslims, but strangely enough it seems that your attention seems to be exclusively against Muslims, whilst being supportive of whatever the Zionist State of Israel does; please explain this apparent irrationality.
Michael, if you are a fan of logical propositions, you’ve failed what was meant to be a proof:
“If a religion or world view other tham Islam is true, therefore Islam is false, then I’m objectively justified in impaling him Vlad-style.”
Proposition: If a non-Islamic religion is true
Conclusion: then Islam is false
Comment: You would also have to assert the common belief that all religions are contradictory, and accordingly either none of them are true, or only one is. I don’t personally believe that, as I think they could all be true manifestations of the same thing, but that’s another story.
Your additional logical error is that because the proposition is a question, and not a proven statement, the conclusion cannot be reached anyway.
Proposition: if Islam is false
Conclusion: then I’m objectively justified in impaling him Vlad-style.
Utter crap. There is no logical proof here, just a re-statement of your racism. If I said that the surface of the sun is cold, that would clearly be a false statement – but it would not give you any justification to kill me.
So, three logical errors in a short statement AND you have failed to answer my points put to you above. I will have to reduce the amount of time I spend on you, if you persistently refuse to respond to any criticisms.