Putin’s Russia continues to move smartly in the wrong direction. Interesting article in the Guardian here:
Russia’s ruling political party is gathering academics to draw up a uniform textbook presenting a party-approved version of Russian history and seeking to downplay the horrors of the Soviet era.
“We understand that the school is a unique social institution that forms all citizens,” Irina Yarovaya, the deputy head of the Duma’s constitutional law committee, told a meeting of 20 party members and academics today.
“We need a united society. We need a united textbook.”
The move comes amid a mass ideological project, promoted by the United Russia party, seeking to build a national identity on the glories of its second world war victory, turning a blind eye to some of the crimes committed in the Soviet Union
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/17/united-russia-uniform-history-textbook
That is of course the Great Patriotic War that only started in 1941. It is already the case that the Stalin/Hitler pact and invasion of Poland in 1939 are not taught in Russian schools.
“I swear to God – every single crime committed by our enemies, we in the West topped. EVERY SINGLE ONE.
And you want to wag your fingers at the Russians? Well of course! What with us being so free of sin, ha ha ha ha.”
Have you stopped beating yourself with chains, yet?
What’s wrong, anonymous poster at 820am, you don’t like beating yourself with chains? You prefer twine? Hose? Uniforms? Thigh-length black leather boots?
“But surely Parliament wouldn’t have voted for war if they hadn’t been misled.”
Perhaps I have funny friends, but I knew of no-one at the time who believed that Iraq was a threat or that Blair was acting on any other grounds than orders from Washington. It is simply not credible that our MPs are so stupid that they did not fully understand the completely spurious nature of Blair’s prospectus (and I believe they’re pretty stupid). The plea that Blair was terribly persuasive (‘ablaze with conviction’ said the Guardian) is advanced as an excuse, as if those who voted for the war were victims of some skillfully induced hallucination. If I knew what was happening, so did those bastards.
Yes it’s a theft…….but in self defence of course
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/06/where_is_britai.html#comments
Here comes old Ban Ki Moon riding in with his usual sticking plaster.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia_pacific/10356065.stm
Who on earth knows how many people are ‘displaced’? 400,000 according to this BBC report.
suhail sadi,
I donot hate british or any race -. what i hate is exploiters whtther idnian s or otherwise.
I hate mahmud (turkish afgan) of ghazni -aswell but that was incidence of 1002ad, what the british govt and media and establishment are doing is not only what they did during last 200 years of exploitation(real true coulour of so called democracy) but what they are doing NOW1 who the hell are thse bastards to lecture to others when they have ruined the europe germany russia and everyother country in the world every 20 years for last 200 years?
as for Rbbentrop pact there was a reason for that -becaus the soviets discov3ered tha lying britihs were planning something else so soviets had to buy time–
#chamberlain in 1938 at Munich was several times heard saying_intercepted by the soviets-that “we shoudl make soviets and Germany fight amosnt each other till they are bloodied and then we british will get in Europe”
suhail sadi,
I donot hate british or any race -. what i hate is exploiters whtther idnian s or otherwise.
I hate mahmud (turkish afgan) of ghazni -aswell but that was incidence of 1002ad, what the british govt and media and establishment are doing is not only what they did during last 200 years of exploitation(real true coulour of so called democracy) but what they are doing NOW1 who the hell are thse bastards to lecture to others when they have ruined the europe germany russia and everyother country in the world every 20 years for last 200 years?
as for Rbbentrop pact there was a reason for that -becaus the soviets discov3ered the lying britihs were planning something else so soviets had to buy time–
#chamberlain in 1938 at Munich was several times heard saying_intercepted by the soviets-that “we shoudl make soviets and Germany fight amosnt each other till they are bloodied and then we british will get in Europe”
suhail sadi,
I donot hate british or any race -. what i hate is exploiters whtther idnian s or otherwise.
I hate mahmud (turkish afgan) of ghazni -aswell but that was incidence of 1002ad, what the british govt and media and establishment are doing is not only what they did during last 200 years of exploitation(real true coulour of so called democracy) but what they are doing NOW1 who the hell are thse bastards to lecture to others when they have ruined the europe germany russia and everyother country in the world every 20 years for last 200 years?
as for Rbbentrop pact there was a reason for that -becaus the soviets discov3ered the lying britihs were planning something else so soviets had to buy time–
#chamberlain in 1938 at Munich was several times heard saying_intercepted by the soviets-that “we shoudl make soviets and Germany fight amosnt each other till they are bloodied and then we british will get in Europe”
suhail ,
have you been to the place where sadi was born?
do you know that both Hindus and muslims of India have and had a very high reagrad of the persian poets and that poetry recital in idnia attracts the same number of crowds which the rock festival attract is the west.
Thanks, Avatar Singh. I’ve not been to that place, but I know about the syncretic poetry and the mushairas and the unifying force which it is in India – you’re absolutely correct about that.
In fact, Josh Malihabadi and others used to take part in poetry recitals in my paternal grandfather’s house in Agra during the 1920s and 1930s and my grandfather edited a couple of Urdu poetry magazines during that period. His own grandfather was hung by the British during the 1857-9 War of Independence and his father, shot in the head by the ‘Tommies’ – but survived, hail and hearty, to the age of 99!
Revolutionary Indian/ Pakistani poet, Faiz Ahmed Faiz was a mentor and friend to my father-in-law, who wrote his biography, ‘Hum Ke Tere Ajnabi’ as well as, subsequently a biographical novel on revolutionary Indian thinker and activist, Dada Amir Haider Khan.
I know what you mean and I don’t disagree with your basic argument, as I’ve said. I’m sure the British rulers, who represent(ed) corporate capitalist interests, had their own, ulterior motives as you suggest in relation to Europe – empires always do – as well as wrt the world in general. I know that the British Empire absolutely looted India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Malihabadi
It is certainly true that there were areas of Empire where the Imperial power looted their colonies. Nowhere is this more obvious than in the Congo where during the rubber boom of a century ago it is estimated that there were 10 million deaths just to enrich a greedy Belgian King — more innocents killed than in the holocaust. One can well believe that the trauma that this murderous Monarch caused in the Congo is still a contributant to that country’s sorry state even today.
And of course there are many other areas where the history of Empire was not a proud one. And yet, there were also some successes. The war against the Japanese (in defense of Malaya) at the time we were fighting Germany, was hugely costly for the UK, yet the benefit of Britain’s victory accrued almost entirely to the soon to be independent countries of the far east. It does seem to me that, while the London elites may have profited, some of the biggest victims of Empire were the ordinary British people themselves who through taxes and blood paid the cost of defending an Empire without seeing much of a return. Indeed I suspect that if the effort that was put into Empire had been put into the UK instead that Britain would be much more prosperous today ?” though I wonder if Malaysia, Singapore would have been as well off today?
A comparison:-
The US
A. George Bush Sr. was the head of the CIA, he becomes President.
B. George Bush Jr. later becomes President, and the state which determines the questionable final vote, is Florida, in which another Bush, Jeb Bush, was the Governor at the material time.
C. George Bush Jr. goes on to win a second term as President.
Russia
A. Gorbachev introduces a number of reforms ( Glasnost and Perestroika) and ultimately the Soviet Union implodes, leaving Gorbachev a disliked leader in Russia.
B. Putin was the head of the KGB.
C. Putin becomes the President of Russia, and from all appearances governed ( and maybe from behind the scenes, still has significant influence on Medvedev ) with a strong nationalist message for “Mother Russia” and his message resonates with a majority of Russians.
The factors to note are:-
1. A strong nationalist message ?” of “them” out there ?” wanting to do harm to the homeland, and the President’s message resonating with the people as he acts with policies professed to be in defence of the homeland.
2. The people of the United States of America, and the Russian people, at the material time(s) of implementation of avowedly pro-nationalist policies when faced with dangers (e.g. be this 9/11 or the attacks emanating from the Chechen region), are strongly supportive of the President.
3. When the policies ultimately are seen in the people’s eyes, not to be working, support for the policies are questioned by the majority or public support naturally wanes.
Craig – it would be extremely naive to assume that in both Russia and America, the military-industrial complex(es) and the intelligence communities are not consistently influential on the direction of central government(s)’ policies. Not saying that you are not experienced and aware enough not to understand this. What I am trying to do, is broadly point out the points of similarities between the powers.
The nationalist mantra: “”We need a united society. We need a united textbook.” Maybe a bit cruder when expressed in Russian than when similarly expressed in the US ( or, aren’t there instances of US extreme blind nationalism also?).
There may be far more similarities in statecraft, than there are differences, when it comes on to viewing the big powers.
Here is a credible set of academic views from Harvard ( Burden) and Kenny ( Louisiana State University) – http://polmeth.wustl.edu/media/Paper/burde00.pdf, an extract from which, as to purpose, reads:-
“The ideological positions of candidates play a central role in elections around the world.
The spatial voting model, associated with Downs and his followers, posits that ideological
locations are central to voters’ decisions and election outcomes generally. As a result, most
comprehensive empirical studies also attempt to account for ideology in their models. Indeed, no
research on candidate behavior or voter response would be complete without incorporating
ideological positions. Even among those who dismiss ideology as a factor in some elections,
measures are required that permit empirical demonstration of this assertion. The centrality of
ideology requires researchers to develop the best measures of the concept possible. Despite the
clever efforts of many researchers to do so, rarely have adequate estimates of candidates’
positions been produced that fully meet our collective need. The problem is that candidates,
particularly the hundreds running for Congress every two years, come in two rather different
types: incumbent and non-incumbent. Some excellent though imperfect ideological measures
have been developed for incumbents, but the candidates who run to replace them have been
largely neglected.
This paper reports on the early stages of a project that seeks to remedy this problem. In
particular, it details the pilot study for what will be known as the Candidate Ideology Survey
(CIS). We develop a research design that provides comparable measures of ideological position
for both incumbents and challengers.”
Not surprisingly, it is found that Southern states are more conservative ( and I must conclude ?” would them be more prone to embrace blindly nationalistic positions expounded at election time).
I guess, if some bright spark reading Craig’s blog, were to dig deeply enough, an equivalent credible academic study could be found about the bases of Russian political attitudes, and this, I believe, would be enlightening in serving better to understand Russian political attitudes ( and more particularly ?” nationalist sentiments ) towards incumbents and aspirant parties/candidates.
When considering Craig’s post, do recall that the official British texts gave prominence to the “Battle of Britain” and somehow we forgot the 20 million that sacrificed lives when fighting on the Soviet side against Hitler. Did someone speak about cooking the history books?
Again, I am just throwing out food for thought, as to how political processes actually work.
Yes, I think Roderick Russell’s points on this matter are valid ones, too. As with most people, our provenances are broad and often conflicting. So just as one side of my ancestors fought against the British Empire, the other side collaborated with them.
My maternal grandfather was an (Afghan) officer in the British Indian Army and he fought on the Burma Front, a horrible war (all war is horrible but that front was particular disgusting and also under-supplied and unsung; obviously the focus was in Europe). They were fortunate in General Slim, who rose from private during WWI to Lt General during WW2 and arguably the best commander the British had during WW2, but unlike Montgomery not a ‘grandstander’. If India had fallen to the Japanese at that point, it would’ve been a lot worse for Indians (even considering the Bengal Famine, etc.), Britain/ the Empire would not have had the resources with which to continue fighting, Japan would have invaded the USSR from the south and east along the German invasion from the west and the Axis powers would have been victorious, at least in Eurasia.
The interactions b/w British ruling elites, class and Empire are fascinating. Each empire possessed different dynamics and the British Empire had many of its own.
What do you expect? I strongly doubt that the UK-German Naval Pact of 1935 is on the English national curriculum.
George,
Hitler renounced it in 1939. However, the real point is that, just like the Russians, the UK suppresses and avoid unpleasant historical facts – so how does a fact such as this make us different in conduct than the Russians?
Wikileaks Soldier Reveals Orders for “360 Rotational Fire” Against Civilians in Iraq
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25759.htm
Follow the “Letter of Apology” link if you want to add your name.
Hi George!
Hi Mark.
Hi Courtenay – yes, in 1941 Hitler renounced both the 1935 pact with the UK and the 1939 pact with the USSR.
Thanks Clark
Never ever forget (key to false-flag attacks)
The famous incident in Basra where two British paramilitaries were caught *disguised as Arabs* with a truck-full of explosives in their vehicle. Panicky British forces destroyed the Basra jail to release the two captured *SAS soldiers* clearly afraid that occupation forces would be directly connected to the savage bombings that are designed to promote sectarian warfare.
An interview on Syrian TV with Ziyad Al-Munajid on the night the special-forces soldiers were caught clarifies this point, Al-Munajid said,
“This incident gave answers to questions and suspicions that were lacking evidence about the participation of the occupation in some armed operations in Iraq. Many analysts and observers here had suspicions that the occupation was involved in some armed operations against civilians and places of worship and in the killing of scientists. But those were only suspicions that lacked proof. The proof came today through the arrest of the two British soldiers while they were planting explosives in one of the Basra streets. This proves, according to observers, that the occupation is not far from many operations that seek to sow sedition and maintain disorder, as this would give the occupation the justification to stay in Iraq for a longer period. ”
Courtesy ICH
Conservative Dave Davies MP
…think again … whether deliberately or not, the government have not told the British public the whole truth about the circumstances and mistakes leading up to the July 7 attacks’.” ?” The Guardian
I think everyone in Britain needs to find out about the Texas school textbook controversy. Because Texas bulk-buys so many textbooks, it can dictate the editing of books used across the nation. So the extreme Christian Right targeted and captured the textbook board (an elected board), and is now putting in extremely twisted far-right ideology, even downgrading Jefferson for his lack of enthusiasm for theocracy.
I’m less afraid of Russian nationalist tyrants with nukes than I am American Christian Dominionists with nukes. Nationalists want their nation to survive. Dominionists believe that they must enslave the entire planet or die trying to make Jesus return.
It’s remarkable how successful propagandists have been in telling people the ‘cold war’ lasted until 1989, and that e.g. the 1972 Fischer-Spassky chess match happened at its ‘height’. In actual fact, that match happened at the height of detente. Those who know something about the history of US-Soviet relations know that the cold war began c.1947 and lasted until somewhere between 1962-63 (Cuba/Turkey, TBT) and some time before 1968-69 (NPT, the short war between USSR and China), being at its height in the late 1950s and early 1960s. We also know that US-Soviet friendship was a key factor both in 1934 when the USSR joined the League of Nations (and soon built a car industry with US help) and in 1943 when the USSR dissolved the Comintern, scrapped the Internationale as its anthem, admitted that the law of value operated on its territory, and got ready to participate at Bretton Woods the following year. I could go on, but I won’t bore people.
Incidentally, what I’ve said here is not at all controversial in British diplomatic circles, nor at, er, ‘connected’ academic institutions such as SSEES in Londond and its inferior rival St Antony’s College in Oxford. Ain’t that right, Craig? 🙂
I wonder who engineered the demise of Iceland through massive fraud and front men?
Iceland – here are some connections to follow:
1) Tchenguiz – London
2) president Grimsson’s ‘private’ visit to Israel with his Israeli wife Dorrit Moussaieff a few weeks before the FE
3) Soros (look at Wikileaks in Iceland after the financial event (FE))
Kaupthing operated mainly in London and secretly owned almost half of its own shares!
Tchenguiz and Moussaieff are said to be longstanding friends. The Tchenguiz brothers have many ‘friends’ in London too. They used to own Millbank Tower, of which you may have heard.
Why is it that London attracts so many foreign maf – er, Businessmen with Unclear Sources of Wealth (BUSWs)?
Did you know that while the EU (i.e. Frankfurt) told Iceland to eat dirt rather than offer them a loan, the Russian government, along with Russian interests admitted to be ‘private’, went straight in there, helping to bail them out? Or should that be ‘made them an offer they couldn’t refuse’?
The Stalin-Hitler pact was, for Russia, a defensive arrangement: better an alliance with Hitler than the assault on Russia by Germany that Chamberlain hoped to engineer. And from the Russian perspective, the partition of Poland with Germany was no more than a restoration of the situation of 1846.
“It’s remarkable how successful propagandists have been in telling people the ‘cold war’ lasted until 1989, and that e.g. the 1972 Fischer-Spassky chess match happened at its ‘height’. In actual fact, that match happened at the height of detente. Those who know something about the history of US-Soviet relations know that the cold war began c.1947 and lasted until somewhere between 1962-63 (Cuba/Turkey, TBT)”
Riiiiight,
So the Vietnam War (or the American War if you will) had nothing to do with the Cold War?
The Soviet Union didn’t spend itself to destruction on its nuclear weapons and other military heavy industry.
The people in Eastern Europe weren’t still under the cosh of the KGB and forced to learn Russian at schools and there was no Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia.
The war in Afghanistan presumably never happened or had nothing to do with the Cold War while Ronald Reagan’s Cold War rhetoric about signing into law legislation that would abolish Russia was twenty years before.
“I could go on, but I won’t bore people”
Welcome back George, you are not boring anyone at all, your contributions are well valued here, thank you.
I also agree with super 390’s comparrison between russina oligarchs in charge of nukes vs. US global spectrum dominators, I also find the latter, very much in lieu with rightwing fanatics in israel just to mention it, the more dangerous, more secretive and conspiring threat to humanity.
Courtenay Barnet:
“When considering Craig’s post, do recall that the official British texts gave prominence to the “Battle of Britain” and somehow we forgot the 20 million that sacrificed lives when fighting on the Soviet side against Hitler. Did someone speak about cooking the history books?”
What official British texts are you talking about? Ever since I was in school the curriculum seems to have been that everyone has to know that the Soviet Union was the country that made the largest sacrifices in the war.
Well, it remains the case that the US fought a total war on two fronts against both the Germans and the Japanese and that the Soviets were immensely helped out by the US and the UK in terms of military material especially by such things as the arctic convoys (which I believe get barely a mention).
And this doesn’t take into account the fact that the Soviet Union joined in a bloody “non-agression” pact with the Nazis in which to carve up Poland together and invade Finland.
There is also the important fact that Stalin had been warned several times about Hitler’s designs on his country and yet he ignored them all.
Oh, and Stalin didn’t need the excuse of a world war to sacrifice 20,000,000 people. He did the same in peace time also.
Anyway, I’m surprised that no one has mentioned the fact that Niall Ferguson is being drafted to write up a stirring history of the United Kingdom and do for history what Jamie Oliver did with his school dinners for the physical health of our young students by providing wholesome and nutritious fare for their minds.