With genuine reluctance, I find myself obliged to ban Larry from St Louis from commenting on this blog.
I am extremely happy for people to comment on this blog who disagree with my views. It makes it much more interesting for everybody. I wish more people who disagree would comment.
But Larry has a different agenda. His technique is continually to accuse me of holding opinions which I do not in fact hold, and which he thinks will call my judgement into doubt.
Take this comment posted by Larry at 9.35 am today:
I’ve re-read your post on the Russian spies, and once again you’ve proven to be a complete dumbass.
I predicted Russia claiming (in some minor way) those idiots. You didn’t. You thought it was a conspiracy.
You’ve once again self-indicted.
In fact my view on the Russian spies was the exact opposite of what Larry claims it was. As I posted:
I don’t have any difficulty in believing that the FBI really have discovered a colony of Russian sleeper spies in the United States.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/06/those_russian_s.html#comments
This is not Larry being mistaken – remember he claimed he had just re-read my posting. It is rather indicative of a very deliberate technique he has used scores of times, that of claiming I hold an opinion which he believes will devalue my other arguments in the mind of other readers, when I do not in fact hold that opinion.
He most often – indeed daily – does this with reference to 9/11. He tries to divert almost every thread on to the topic of 9/11 and to insinuate that I am among those who believe that 9/11 was “an inside job”. In fact, I am not of that opinion and never have been.
I have put up with this now for months, but Larry’s activities have become so frenetic and are so counter-productive to informed debate, I am not prepared to put up with it any more. I am also deeply sucpicious of the fact that he is able to spend more time on this blog than me, and to post right around the clock (often as with this one at 9.35am – think about it – what time is that in the US?).
Anyway, sorry Larry, your derailing days are over.
.
“So who’s really threatened here and by whom?”
If you don’t like it when people suggest your comments tend towards xenophic paranoia, try not asking questions like that.
Alfred,
you wrote “The Indian sub-continent is […] more than thirty times as populous [as the UK …]. The wealthiest 60 million Indians have more wealth than all the British put together.
So, you’ve chosen a sample of the richest members of a large group, equal in number to the entire population of a much smaller group, and summed each group’s wealth.
Assuming similar wealth distributions in both groups, the Indian subcontinent would have to be a fraction as wealthy as Britain for its top 60 million to turn out to have less wealth than the entire British population.
You’re a scientist. Was this a mistake?
sduhayl this mittal or uneelcted manmoahn singh the traitor is as much an anthema to me as any british petroleum but fact is that neoliberalism was started by thatcher at a time when england shoudl ahve gone bankrupt as it was producing nothing but it changed the tack and exploited japnese through propaganda to bring factories to uk and thus destroy japan and it has always acted as parasite on the rest of the world. that neoliberalism was a means to keep englsnd not bankrupt through manipulation of stolen money brought to LOndon and cayman islands.
” The modus operandi of Britain is to make country and regions unstable and install british stooge with explicit instruction to bring the money -looted ones -to Britain from where it is not going to go anywhere else.
Some oligarch Jews (like thee criminal U.K.-based fugitive oligarch Boris Berezovsky)
were the stooge of British in Russia and they brought so many ill gotten money to uk. So did the Kuwaitis-who brought 4 billions of pounds within a week of first Iraq war problem in august 1990 -so has continued the massive loot of the rest of the world by the English .race through this money protection racket . It is money protection racket in the sense that those eliete’s money is protected only when it is made to be lodged in British London banks. The witness, who appeared on the Rossiya channel with his face hidden and was referred to as Pyotr, accused 61-year-old Berezovsky of killing Alexander Litvinenko because the former security officer knew how the exiled tycoon had obtained political asylum in Britain in 2003. This thief boris berezosvky is a terrorist as well who calls for violet end to Putin-the president who is one of the most loved of his countrymen compared to any in the world.
As someone said “We live in a world where criminals are good guys and patriots are villains: where Berezovsky is a liberal “human rights” activist and Putin is a moral monster.” that putin who is one of the most popular leader of any in the world.
In fact Britain is running a protection racket in the world through the help of american army-(because Britain is a third rate country with fourth rate army so it cannot do it on its own).
What Britain does is let the other countries be made instable (Kuwait, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan etc) then let the british stooge be installed there-those people who have no following in own country and with strict instruction to those stooges that they will bring the money to britan,-that is how London has enriched itself in last 15 years after fall of soviet union. Billions of soviet money have flown illegally to London and the british court -kangaroo court if ever there was any -have not let the money go citing “it will harm england’s balance of payment”?
That is why british media gets incensed if the traitors like soviet spies are not left safe in Britain -because then the whole business of protection money racket and money that Britain gets is in jeopardy. That is what explains influx of foreign money to London and how London has overtaken new York in stock market. Forget about service industry -british are the most ill mannered race what service can they provide except protection racket on back of american arms? Britain is looting even usa. Through it is usa which has worked hard (through illegal invasions ) to make other countries unstable so that Britain can get money from protection of stooge elites of those countries..
the modus operandi of Britain is to make country and regions unstable and install british stooge with explicit instruction to bring the money -looted ones -to Britain from where it is not going to go anywhere else.
Some oligarch jews were the stooge of British in Russia and they brought so many ill gotten money to uk. So did the Kuwaitis-who brought 4 billions of pounds within a week of first Iraq war problem in august 1990 -so has continued the massive loot of the rest of the world by the English race through this money protection racket . it is money protection racket in the sense that those elite’s money is protected only when it is made to be lodged in British London banks.
”
This is how the british and Americans now conduct their battle for “hearts and minds” ?” by making local satraps so widely and deeply despised that they are totally dependent on their Washington overlords for their sheer physical survival. The real “benchmark” the Iraqis have to display to the Americans’ satisfaction is an infinite capacity for obedience.”
“In the aftermath of President Abraham Lincoln’s defeat of the London-backed slave-holders’ Confederate insurrection, the London-linked New York faction of U.S. finance unleashed a predatory looting of the physical assets of the territory formerly ruled by the defeated Confederacy. That operation, which was described then as “carpet bagging,” is a term that pointed to the style of the personal baggage, in which the travelling, locust-like predators carried their personal effects.”
A very famous news mogul-Mr.R. Hearst (Jewish proprietor of Hearst news group))- had been stopped from running for american presidency in 1916 because he might not have been inclined to rescue england in the 1st world war. Anyway, the southern constituency was pressing hard for america to come to rescue england who was staring defeat and thus loosing the prospect of enslaved nations who would have been feed from defeat of england. America did come to aid of england and it was called end of isolationalism. But this end of isolationalism would be tolerated only when it suits english interest against others and not in case of others like freedom for Irish people in northern Ireland (an occupied part of Ireland).and that British agent Wilson intervened on side of Britain in name of spreading democracy at point of gun! Woodrow Wilson was re-elected in 1916 on a promise to stay out of the Great War.
Think of that-Britain was looting two third of the world at the time and killing starving millions of people-and this Wilson comes to Britain rescue in name of protecting democracy! And that is exactly what these bastards mean when they utter democracy-that is a code word for them to attack other countries for furtherance of british interest. Then if two millions Iraqi are killed -starved -it is price worth paying. Somebody can legitimately ask than what to do with 60 millions English people and then it would be worth the price to save the world from English rapacity.
“The First World War was by far the bloodiest conflict in human history up to that time. Schwartz and Skinner noted, “Woodrow Wilson proclaimed a war for democracy against ‘Prussian dictatorship,’ but that was propaganda. Germany had civil rights, an elected parliament, competing parties, universal male suffrage, and an unparalleled system of social democracy.” Germany was far more democratic than either the British or French empire.”
An Anglophile to the core, ku kulx klan stooge Wilson didn’t care about the fate of the Russians. His concern was in keeping German forces split along two fronts. The payoff worked: Russia’s provisional prime minister Aleksandr Kerensky kept the Russians involved in the war.
In 1916, Woodrow Wilson was re-elected to the presidency chiefly on the strength of a slogan: “He kept us out of war.” By 1917, the peacenik prez was leading the charge against Germany, jailing antiwar activists, and exhorting Americans to fight a “war to end all wars.” In 1940, Franklin Delano Roosevelt told the voters: “I have said this before, but I shall say it again and again and again: your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars.” Behind the scenes, however, he was maneuvering to do just that ?” and by the end of 1941, we were fighting a two-front war, embracing “Uncle” Joe Stalin as a fellow “anti-fascist,” and planning the internment of the Japanese-American population.
” When this English edition of Professor Stanislav Menshikov’s book has been printed, Russia’s President Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin will have delivered his landmark May 10, 2006 “state of the union” address. The President’s address will have marked the probable close of what had been the demographically murderous, greatest carpetbagging swindle in history. The carpetbagging which Professor Menshikov’s book describes, is the post-1989 looting of the territory of the former Soviet Union, a looting that, in fact, has also been the predatory ruin of most of the East European territory of the Comecon outside Russia then and now.”-
alfred nobody will want to come to your wet windy rathchet island belive me they come only because england has destroyed other economy and for last 50 years it ios doing through another mechanism called leibralisation and gloablisation which enriches rife w elites to ploot the masses then theat elite is asked to come to uk to bring money.
half of all london sells of houses is to forenners thsoe foreiners who come form poor country-why does your countrynot invistigate where the money comes fromause uk knows that it is stolen money after all where willt he british atooge in afgansitan or iraq will bring money to_ofocurse to uk-that is why people with stolen money get immediate citizenshuip in your wet cold country.
STOP OKING NOSE INTO OTHER COUNTRYAND THEN WILL NEVER COME TO SEE YOUR COLD WINDY COUNTRY.
suhayl i write about anglosaxon for the simple reason that the French use that term to denoate particualr of enlgish men and their attitude and diffenetiate betwene not only welsh and scots from english peopel but also all straind of english peopel from a type which dominates the english pysche which is one of anglosaxon. jsut klike usa is not full of anglosaxon -majority are nonanglosaxon-but the main discourse there runs with anglosaxon attitude and not say iraish or italain attitude or jewish attitue the same way in english history itis anglosaxon way which has bene predominant except during early phase of norhtman attack after 1066. the masses of enlgish think of themsleves as anglosaxon and have hcanchrterstic of that mixture.
jsut liek majority of bnorth indians have aryan chahractherstic -that does nto mean in racial genetic way but in cultural and philosphical way. there is a anglosaoxn way of thinking jsut liek ther eis a scots way or german or celtic way of thinking.
that is what i mean and i donto groups that in genetically racial way becaus I know nobody of health is of pure race.
for me i associate more with poor or average spanish or gemran anr evenenglish man rather than expalotative idnia n of manmoahn singh variety
now i will not reply to the thread unless very compelled because itis really waste of my time and such trolls like alfred are not worth bothering about .
Ruth asks:
“Has the intelligence services with the remit to protect the economic security of the UK taken the idea way beyond legality and indulged in massive frauds laundering the funds into a vast web of companies with links all over the place?”
Well has it or not? Anyone can postulate anything, but what is the point if you have neither an answer or even a suggestion of how you might come up with an answer?
Clark wrote:
“You wrote “The Indian sub-continent is […] more than thirty times as populous [as the UK …]. The wealthiest 60 million Indians have more wealth than all the British put together.
So, you’ve chosen a sample of the richest members of a large group, equal in number to the entire population of a much smaller group, and summed each group’s wealth.”
Yes, obviously, but so what? What I said was true and entirely clear. I concealed nothing and sought to deceive no one. My point was that India is vastly richer than Britain in natural resources, in human resources and in capital resources.
Avatar (Thumbs) Singh writes
“neoliberalism was started by thatcher at a time when england shoudl ahve gone bankrupt as it was producing nothing but it changed the tack and exploited japnese through propaganda to bring factories to uk and thus destroy japan and it has always acted as parasite on the rest of the world …”
Well that’s interesting. If Margaret Thatcher saved England from bankruptcy and presumably thus saved the population from widespread starvation by inventing neoliberalism, I will think more kindly of her in the future.
Saying that Britain produced nothing in 1979, is simply silly. Manufacturing output in the UK then accounted for about 16% of GDP, as today. During Margaret Thatcher’s term in office manufacturing investment was virtually zero and manufacturing output was stagnant or declining.
As for exploiting Japan through propaganda, nuts. Britain simply invited the Japanses auto companies to build plants in the UK, as they have done in Canada, the US and throughout the World. This was a business arrangement the Japanese car companies must have expected would be profitable. As far as I know it was. This is not exploitation, it’s just business. The only thing exploited was the inability of the management of British car companies to produce reliable cars efficiently. As a result the profits of manufacturing went to Japan rather than staying in Britain.
It is in way embarrassing to find myself commenting on this nonsense. This, for example.
“In fact Britain is running a protection racket in the world through the help of american army-(because Britain is a third rate country with fourth rate army so it cannot do it on its own). …”
“Cannot do it on it[s] own.” Exactly. And you think some other country is going to waste their resources to make Britain rich?
Oh, and Willian Randold Hearst was not a Jew. He was a pro-Nazi anti-Semite.
I’ll leave the rest of the Avatar’s theses to be parsed by Craig Murray’s stalwart band of gatekeepers.
The purpose of this thread was to discuss banning Larry. It has become obvious, however, that the question is inconsequential. The level of debate, the gang attacks against anyone who goes against the fundamentally anglophobic line of the blog, makes this a place where few knowledgeable people would wish to contribute. If Craig Murray does not recognize this as a problem, then the case is hopeless. Might as well ask Larry to moderate the site, as anything — it could n’t be more damaging to the reputation of someone formerly entrusted to represent the UK abroad. Alternatively, future threads should stick with safe subjects such as fruit juice.
Avatar Singh, that massive bloc of conspiracism looks like it has been copied and pasted from the brain of Lyndon Larouche!
You may be happy to know (you’ve probably already been informed by the mailing list, though) that those fruitloops have successfully infiltrated the Democratic Party once again.
http://www.kesharogers.com
—–“You’re a scientist. Was this a mistake?”——-
I very much doubt it; he simply pulled the figure out of his ‘arse. The GDP of the UK was nearly double the GDP of the whole of India in 2008.
——“makes this a place where few knowledgeable people would wish to contribute”——–
Well you’re doing your best to prove that true.
—–“future threads should stick with safe subjects such as fruit juice.”—–
Even if they do we can count on cranks like you to come along and derail them.
Angrysoba, thanks for that info on the LaRouche Democrat. Shocking, but more shocking that the media has left it untouched.
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right …
I know you think that Craig Murray has some sort of impeccable human rights record – at least with respect to his time as an Ambassador. But it’s quite obvious to me that he bends the world to fit into his preconceived notions, and I doubt his ability to assess evidence.
The one thing that took the cake for me is his belief that a preponderance of students at the University of Michigan believe that the invasion of Iraq was a manifestation of end-times Christianity. I spent three years there – and I’m otherwise from the Midwest. I can assure you that I never met anyone with such silly goose beliefs, and that anyone like that tends not to be able to shut up about it, and that anyone like that in Ann Arbor would tend to be shunned and thereafter adjust his or her worldview. Ann Arbor is not exactly a hotbed of liberalism, but it’s not remotely a hotbed of apocalyptic Christianity. I never met a Christian there, and I have a particular sensitivity to such conversations.
Nonetheless Craig Murray relies on the wrong source to come to the wrong conclusion that Ann Arbor is full of students who believe that Jesus saves. For whatever reason, he simply wants to believe that.
Stephen Jones said:
“…he simply pulled the figure out of his ‘arse. The GDP of the UK was nearly double the GDP of the whole of India in 2008.”
Not according to the CIA Factbook.
India GDP World rank 5: $3.69 trillion
UK GDP World rank 7: $2.149 trillion
http://tiny.cc/bnvro
Does no one here know how to check facts?
Clark,
Re: Assuming similar wealth distributions in both groups, the Indian subcontinent would have to be a fraction as wealthy as Britain for its top 60 million to turn out to have less wealth than the entire British population.
You’re a scientist. Was this a mistake?
Not a mistake just hype, I expect. I read it somewhere but cannot verify it on the Web. But income distribution in India is certainly different from in Britain, since 35% live on a dollar a day, which would not support life in Britain.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6257057.stm
What is correct is that India’s GDP on a purchasing power parity basis is much larger than Britain’s, This suggests that India’s capital resources are larger than Britain’s, since otherwise one would have to infer that the Indians get a better return on capital that the Brits, which seems unlikely.
But, yes, you raise a good point.
Avatar Singh,
your point about rich criminals being welcomed into Britain reminds me of the “special treatment” that was (sorry, is) extended to Alisher Usmanov.
Alfred,
I’m glad you can see the problem with that statistic, and I hope you’ll be examine sources a bit more critically in future.
“CIA Factbook”- this made me laugh. I can’t think of another organisation more dedicated to warping facts. Not that I’m contesting the figures, they may well be right, it’s just the concept of the CIA publishing a “Factbook”. I take it the “Liesbook” is classified!
another fake Larry – Alfred, by the sounds of it. So cheeky, Alfred. And to comaplin about other people derailing the thread! Tell us about the genocide in Leicester again? Actually, no, don’t.
Technicolour,
I think that is the “real” Larry. His true agenda is becoming clear, though he has little chance of advancing it with such thin gruel.
Mmm. I don’t think ‘our’ Larry would have ever written anything like “I have a particular sensitivity to such conversations”. Or actually, any of the other words he uses – thereafter, nonetheless etc (though I note ‘silly goose’ is thrown in as a sop). I’d bet you a fiver, Clark 🙂
What do you think? Rain today?
Still, you could be right. Point quite interesting, which makes it annoying.
If there is a ‘gang’ hereabouts, it’s the ‘gang’ which prefers to attack all aspects of Craig Murray’s provenance and activism and which attempts constantly to imply that only extreme views are posted here and that everyone who posts here has extreme views. That is patently untrue.
Many of us, it seems to me, attempt to view matters in a balanced way, yet for our pains we still are termed ‘lunatics and extremists’. It strikes me that this is a tactic and that those deploying it are not interested, really, in engaging in debate but simply in hyperbole and damning by association.
This thread is about trolling, and so, whereas normally discussing the matter it might be considered pandering to distraction, all of this discussion about their methods is very relevant.
Thank you, Ruth and Vronsky, for providing excellent links on the subject.
I note that as soon as a lot of people had announced their support for Craig Murray’s attempted (not very successful) ban on specific trolls, there seems to have been a concerted effort to:
a) Diminish everything about Craig Murray. Attempt to imply that he is incompetant and possibly even insane.
b) Re-introduce the subject of the attacks on the USA which occurred in late 2001. This is precisely one of the the reasons Craig gave in his post for attempting to ban ‘Larry’ – who I see now is back under the original moniker.
c) And Alfred, you re-introduce your own, personal hobby-horse, yet again; this seems to be a merry-g-round of disruption; and you fling around figures and assertions, many of which you then find unable to back-up, the point, it seems to me, being simply to fling them around – rather like the MSM does – and then possibly retract it, quietly, sometime later. But of course, the impact has been made by the initial assertion. You also repeatedly attempt to ‘tar’ people with the same ‘extremist’ brush, regardless of what they write and regardless of the fact that they spend time on these boards challenging those to seek to essentialise every dynamic in the world, challenging anti-Semitism, anti-Englishness, and yes, challenging imperialism. Then, when someone points out something about your ideas, you act the victim and become angry.
It’s very clear that this is what is happening. And it’s no surprise at all.
avatar singh; as Suhay’s pointed out; if you’re rich enough the world’s your oyster. Doesn’t matter what your nationality is. Don’t think the UK differs from anywhere else in that.
Furthermore, Alfred, while paying lip-service to the banning of ‘Larry’, the entire thrust of your argumentation seems geared towards the opposite – with the exception, of course, of your seeming absolute ‘scientific’ certainty regarding the attacks on the USA of late 2001. Two sides of the same coin, again.
You – and I, and most others – have been able to say anything you wanted to say on this blog. Yes, you have been challenged, and will continue to be challenged, on certain matters – as have we all – that is what debate is all about. Yet still you protest ‘censorship’, when the agenda of ‘Larry’ et al clearly has always been provocation, disruption of discourse and character assassination of Craig Murray, rather than debate. Why defend those who pursue such agendas?
although, avatar singh, you’re quite right about the UK providing a home for stolen money & gangsters.I guess they want to live here because it’s relatively safe and has some kind of international cachet (chokes).
“The book ends on a predictably darker note, with a trail of dead and extensive legal action. The
moreAlfred – “Britain simply invited the Japanses auto companies to build plants in the UK, as they have done in Canada, the US and throughout the World. This was a business arrangement the Japanese car companies must have expected would be profitable”
A more successful culture from the other side of the world outcompeting our quaint indigenous practices, in our own homeland ? That’ll do nicely, Sir.
If Thatcher “bought into the NuLabor inspired program of ethnic cleansing”, all is indeed lost. Up to and including the sanity of anybody who tries to think about any of this.
I was wondering the other day if Goebels believed his own propaganda; or whether he was rubbing his hands together chortling “It’s amazing! They’re swallowing it!”
Alfred,
If you aren’t an intelligence service operative, what are you?
“If you aren’t an intelligence service operative, what are you?”
Ruth, I have never seen him round NWO HQ, so don’t worry.
Ruth, he’s someone who wants to persuade you that genocide is happening in Leicester! On another thread there’s someone who wants to persuade you that ‘it’ is all the fault of ‘FemiNazis’. Perfectly normal.
I mean, otherwise MI5 et al would surely have to rename themselves the “misleading facts, spurious accusations, and outbursts of random anger” services…
“If you aren’t an intelligence service operative, what are you?”
A missionary, I think. He sees the light and must preach it to the heathen.
There are many lights, including ignis fatuus and the oncoming train.
I must say, I’m touched by this faith in human nature. The idea that nobody could emit idiocy unless they were paid for it makes me feel all young again.
And *that* brings me back to the underlying damage that Larry does … hoping I don’t need to expand on that.
never knew that name for will o the whisp, thanks, Richard. Now remembering Kenneth Williams, fondly.
Yes, missionaries. Very easy to attach yourself to a single cause, obviously. Have been tempted to go for the fiduciary duty on corporations myself, but it’s not quite so exciting as shouting ‘genocide!’.