The Ethics of Banning Trolls 754


With genuine reluctance, I find myself obliged to ban Larry from St Louis from commenting on this blog.

I am extremely happy for people to comment on this blog who disagree with my views. It makes it much more interesting for everybody. I wish more people who disagree would comment.

But Larry has a different agenda. His technique is continually to accuse me of holding opinions which I do not in fact hold, and which he thinks will call my judgement into doubt.

Take this comment posted by Larry at 9.35 am today:

I’ve re-read your post on the Russian spies, and once again you’ve proven to be a complete dumbass.

I predicted Russia claiming (in some minor way) those idiots. You didn’t. You thought it was a conspiracy.

You’ve once again self-indicted.

In fact my view on the Russian spies was the exact opposite of what Larry claims it was. As I posted:

I don’t have any difficulty in believing that the FBI really have discovered a colony of Russian sleeper spies in the United States.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/06/those_russian_s.html#comments

This is not Larry being mistaken – remember he claimed he had just re-read my posting. It is rather indicative of a very deliberate technique he has used scores of times, that of claiming I hold an opinion which he believes will devalue my other arguments in the mind of other readers, when I do not in fact hold that opinion.

He most often – indeed daily – does this with reference to 9/11. He tries to divert almost every thread on to the topic of 9/11 and to insinuate that I am among those who believe that 9/11 was “an inside job”. In fact, I am not of that opinion and never have been.

I have put up with this now for months, but Larry’s activities have become so frenetic and are so counter-productive to informed debate, I am not prepared to put up with it any more. I am also deeply sucpicious of the fact that he is able to spend more time on this blog than me, and to post right around the clock (often as with this one at 9.35am – think about it – what time is that in the US?).

Anyway, sorry Larry, your derailing days are over.

.


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754 thoughts on “The Ethics of Banning Trolls

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  • Alfred

    Suhayl said:

    “Sorry to be ridiculously pedantic, but ‘Scotch’ is a drink, Alfred. It’s ‘Scottish’ nationalism.”

    It’s not necessarily a drink according to my dictionary:

    Scotch: 1. the people of Scotland 2. Inclined to frugality — LOL

  • Richard Robinson

    “”Sorry to be ridiculously pedantic, but ‘Scotch’ is a drink, Alfred. It’s ‘Scottish’ nationalism.”

    It’s not necessarily a drink according to my dictionary:”

    That may not be the most highly regarded of sources around here, following your last use of it.

    My dictionary, the Concise Oxford, says that ‘genocide’ means “the mass slaughter of human beings”, by the way.

  • Alfred

    Stephen said:

    “The short answer is the site’s software is crap.”

    Och man, it’s no crap, it’s scotch: frugal in features — not vanilla-flavored, but oatmeal.

    “What sense does it mean to say that if you have $50,000 in US government bonds in India you are five times richer than a guy who has $50,0000 government bonds in the US? If it were true the guy in the US could simply catch a plane and increase his wealth five-fold.”

    That’s precisely what the multinationals are doing. Want to invest in software development: $60,000 to $120,000 per man year in the US, $5,000 to $10,000 in Chennai, India.

    But the relative wealth of India and Britain will certainly have changed between 2000 and 2010, and substantially I would bet. Furthermore, estimating wealth from GDP does not seem an entirely hopeless proposition. If neither the proportion of wealth represented by productive capital nor the rate of return on capital changes radically, then there must be a strong relationship between wealth and GDP (plus 7% in India in 2009, minus 4.4% in Britain in 2009).

  • Is britain richer than india?

    Indian economy ‘to overtake UK’

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6294409.stm

    India could overtake Britain and have the world’s fifth largest economy within a decade as the country’s growth accelerates, a new report says.

    If trends continue, India’s economy may then surpass the US and be second only to China’s by mid-century, the report by investment bank Goldman Sachs says.

  • Alfred

    Hey, Is Britain Richer than India,

    Interesting link. This BBC story from 2007 says “India could overtake Britain and have the world’s fifth largest economy within a decade…”

    Actually, according to the CIA World Fact Book, India overtook Britain to become the world’s fifth largest economy not “within a decade” but in just two years, i.e., by 2009 (http://tiny.cc/bnvro).

    The BBC article also states:

    “Within 15 years Indians should, on average, be four times richer than today, buying five times as many cars, and the country will burn three times as much crude oil …”

    which indicates wealth doubling in an incredibly short 7.5 years. This is even faster than I estimated for the period 2000-2010 based on growth in GDP.

  • Alfred

    Ach! You must have hoochie-coochie, bootleg dictionary!

    Suhayl, It’s the Humpty Dumpty “words-mean-whatever-I want-them-to mean” dictionary.

    Actually, its the Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary, which I prefer to the SOED. For one thing, you don’t need both hands to pick it up.

    But Richard, I already gave you a definition of “genocide” that makes my use of the term defensible. I also indicated that the intention of the Blair/Brown governments may not have been the extirpation of the indigenous people from entire cities, but just a dirty racket to boost their ethnic vote, with consequences for the rest of the population of no concern. If that is shown to be the case, genocidal intent cannot be proved: merely treason.

    But try to grip this: I am not a racist, I am a democrat. I believe governments should serve the interests of the people, and on immigration the people have been quite clear. (And David Cameron claimed before the election to recognize the will of the people on immigration and his determination “to grip it.”)

    You are puzzled by the fact that I enjoy living in a multi-racial society. But that only puzzles you because you have assumed all along that I am a racist, which I am not. My views on immigration to Canada are very similar to my views on immigration to Britain, except insofar as the circumstances are different. Canada needs more people, in my view, to occupy the space and give us a chance of holding on to it, maintaining our traditions and form of goverment. Britain is different, vastly crowded and short of resources. A decline in Britain’s population would, in my view, be a good thing. Furthermore it would be happening now without mass immigration.

    Unfortunately, in Canada, since the Liberals brought in no fault devorce (my wife’s getting a little dowdy, I think it’s time to take up with a teenage floozie — actually my wife is as lovely as the day we married) and abolished restrictions on abortion, Canadians have been unable to reproduce themselves. Thus we need immigrants just to keep the system running, let alone grow the population. I think this is sad, and I say this out of respect and affection for my Asian, African and other non-British friends and acquaitances as much as for what remains of the British nation here.

  • technicolour

    Yeah, on immigration the people of Britain were quite clear: that’s why the BNP lost council seats everywhere and all 12 council seats in Barking.

  • steve

    I have come up with a thought why dosnt Craig start a conpsiracy blog and any conspiracy fanatics can blog away all day. If they continue to disrupt the other blogs then we know it is a diliberate tactic to disrupt the site.

  • Richard Robinson

    “But try to grip this: I am not a racist, I am a democrat. I believe governments should serve the interests of the people”

    I don’t believe you, and I don’t care how many clever arguments you use to “prove” it. You retreat into talking about ‘culture’ when challenged, but still only the culture of different races, as though they were synonyms. And I do not like the uses to which you are putting the belief you claim.

    I am one of the people of the country you talk about, I don’t need your second-hand information on what we want.

    You persistently evade mention of “assimilation”. People bring their foreign mitochondria into the country, their children grow up here, they become the “us” whose wishes you talk of. Your obsession with describing this as genocide may be justifiable by the rules you wish to play by, you may have managed to dig up a dictionary that doesn’t rule it out (though most do), but to me it looks like troublemaking. There are enough people preaching fear and divisiveness already, thank you very much.

    Given that none of this has any connection with the stated purposes of the blog, I really wonder why you would choose someone in Mr. Murray’s family situation to dump your shitstirring ideology onto. It’s unbelievably crass, to put it as politely as I can. I wish you would stop it.

  • Alfred

    Technicolor said:

    “Yeah, on immigration the people of Britain were quite clear: that’s why the BNP lost council seats everywhere and all 12 council seats in Barking.”

    Techie:

    Try to be sensible.

    Here’s what opinion surveys about immigration to Britian show (http://tiny.cc/wb8y4):

    “Sixty-nine per cent of voters felt the huge influx of newcomers into the UK over recent years has had a “negative” impact on society, putting a strain on housing, hospitals, schools and social cohesion.

    Only 12 per cent of voters agreed with the Government’s claim that migrant workers should be encouraged here to boost the economy….”

    As for the BNP, why would anyone concerned about immigration vote for a no-hope party of knuckle-dragging, nose-pullers carrying jars of marmite and threatening to assassinate one another when they could vote for David Cameron, an election winner who promised a sane and restrictive immigration policy?

    What you say about the BNP being wiped in Barking is interesting, though. I did not know of this, but it supports my thesis that the BNP is intelligently designed to fail. Barking was a stronghold. The Party leader runs for Parliament in Barking and creates enough of a stink to wipe out the party’s representation on the council. Wow, Griffin is good.

  • Alfred

    Richard,

    You say: “I don’t believe you, and I don’t care how many clever arguments you use to “prove” it.

    Well that ends it then doesn’t it. You call me a liar, I call you a horse’s arse. But you really should try to improve your reading comprehension. You would not then fall into the Larry sin of attributing to others what they have not said and do not believe.

  • Jaded.

    Steve – ‘I have come up with a thought why dosnt Craig start a conpsiracy blog and any conspiracy fanatics can blog away all day. If they continue to disrupt the other blogs then we know it is a diliberate tactic to disrupt the site.’

    This is a conspiracy blog. Craig says there was complicity by elements of the U.K. government and security services in the use of torture, which they deny. That’s a conspiracy theory until officially admitted or proven in court. :-0

  • Stephen Jones

    —–“That’s precisely what the multinationals are doing. Want to invest in software development: $60,000 to $120,000 per man year in the US, $5,000 to $10,000 in Chennai, India.”——

    Your figures are way out as usual, but that’s irrelevant.

    If your claim about using PPP for the richest percentiles’ wealth was correct then why doesn’t Mittal quintuple his wealth by moving from London to Delhi. According to you he’d immediately be five times richer.

  • Stephen Jones

    —-“Sixty-nine per cent of voters felt the huge influx of newcomers into the UK over recent years has had a “negative” impact on society, putting a strain on housing, hospitals, schools and social cohesion.”——-

    Did ‘the huge influx of newcomers’ form part of the question they were asked. Nothing like influencing your answers.

  • Stephen Jones

    ——“when they could vote for David Cameron, an election winner who promised a sane and restrictive immigration policy”——-

    The only problem is that he is talking bull.

    The only immigration he can control are spousal visas and visas for highly skilled workers. Neither of these categories have ever got anywhere close to 10% of immigration. All he can do with limits on spousal visas is split up families through absurd bureaucratic requirements, and the proposed cap on highly skilled workers is farcical. Demand for highly skilled workers doesn’t remain static because it will decline in a recession and pick up quickly in a recovery. One of the effects of the cap will be that in a recovery companies will consider outsourcing the whole enterprise to India instead of importing a couple of Indians.

  • Richard Robinson

    “Well that ends it then doesn’t it. You call me a liar, I call you a horse’s arse. But you really should try to improve your reading comprehension. You would not then fall into the Larry sin of attributing to others what they have not said and do not believe.”

    You should be pleased and relieved to see our indigenous culture defending itself vigorously against alien intrusions.

  • Alfred

    Richard:

    “I am extremely happy for people to comment on this blog who disagree with my views. It makes it much more interesting for everybody. I wish more people who disagree would comment” — Craig Murray

    LOL

    Sandcrap

    Plonker yerself.

  • sandcrab

    no need to plonk me alf, if you dont like me i’m usually measured and easy to skip. You’re letting your tackle hang out and pretending you’ve no shame. This isn’t a chat forum old boy it’s a human rights activist’s comment board pestered by noisy, selfish plonkers -like yourself. Your thing that is it?

    He who talks too much

    ,says nothing.

    -nobody

  • Richard Robinson

    I wish more people who disagree would comment”

    Is that an answer to my “why post it here” ?

  • Clark

    Alfred,

    for ages you wrote as if you supported the BNP. Eventually you came out with your “They look like a front set up to fail” argument. All along, you could have just stated your final point, but no. Either you spent ages stringing people along and wasting their time, or you changed your unpopular tune.

    Richard, good point about Craig’s family.

    Alfred, you then did the same with ‘genocide’. “Oh, I’m using ‘genocide’ in some unusual manner that I can justify with a dictionary”. You are devaluing the word ‘genocide’.

    And I expect that your misinterpretation of my maths was deliberate too.

    Stirrer.

  • Jaded.

    Alfred – “I am extremely happy for people to comment on this blog who disagree with my views. It makes it much more interesting for everybody. I wish more people who disagree would comment” — Craig Murray.

    Such ‘disagreers’ should not be conflated with nasty, little weasels that cynically post on here with hidden agendas. Weasels that only wish to cause disruption and spread disinformation.

  • technicolour

    hello, ‘jaded friend of apostate’. How strange that you should how lowered the tone to insults again. Not. Go away, please.

  • technicolour

    sandcrab: thirded & lovely.

    Maybe different branches of the BNP? There are at least two splitter movements after the Barking debacle.

  • Jaded.

    Technicolour – ‘hello, ‘jaded friend of apostate’. How strange that you should how lowered the tone to insults again. Not. Go away, please.’

    Well, I don’t know apostate. Maybe you are trying to hide personal links you have with him by throwing accusations at others? Anyhow, I think the weasels I speak of are worthy of insults. If you wish to welcome them and give them the time of day good luck to you… Go away, please. Thank you. 🙂

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