The Ethics of Banning Trolls 754


With genuine reluctance, I find myself obliged to ban Larry from St Louis from commenting on this blog.

I am extremely happy for people to comment on this blog who disagree with my views. It makes it much more interesting for everybody. I wish more people who disagree would comment.

But Larry has a different agenda. His technique is continually to accuse me of holding opinions which I do not in fact hold, and which he thinks will call my judgement into doubt.

Take this comment posted by Larry at 9.35 am today:

I’ve re-read your post on the Russian spies, and once again you’ve proven to be a complete dumbass.

I predicted Russia claiming (in some minor way) those idiots. You didn’t. You thought it was a conspiracy.

You’ve once again self-indicted.

In fact my view on the Russian spies was the exact opposite of what Larry claims it was. As I posted:

I don’t have any difficulty in believing that the FBI really have discovered a colony of Russian sleeper spies in the United States.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/06/those_russian_s.html#comments

This is not Larry being mistaken – remember he claimed he had just re-read my posting. It is rather indicative of a very deliberate technique he has used scores of times, that of claiming I hold an opinion which he believes will devalue my other arguments in the mind of other readers, when I do not in fact hold that opinion.

He most often – indeed daily – does this with reference to 9/11. He tries to divert almost every thread on to the topic of 9/11 and to insinuate that I am among those who believe that 9/11 was “an inside job”. In fact, I am not of that opinion and never have been.

I have put up with this now for months, but Larry’s activities have become so frenetic and are so counter-productive to informed debate, I am not prepared to put up with it any more. I am also deeply sucpicious of the fact that he is able to spend more time on this blog than me, and to post right around the clock (often as with this one at 9.35am – think about it – what time is that in the US?).

Anyway, sorry Larry, your derailing days are over.

.


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754 thoughts on “The Ethics of Banning Trolls

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  • technicolour

    Well, maybe I am in league with ‘apostate’, ‘jaded’, though I shouldn’t think anyone here would agree with you.

    But apologies, of course, if you’re not the ‘jaded’ who joined in a stream of random insults and specific anti-semitism at the beginning of this year. What a coincidence that you should choose the same name and resort to the same style of personal attacks. You must have a twin!

  • Richard Robinson

    Clark – “Richard, good point”

    It’s a nasty point. Intrusive, creepy, way out of bounds. I mind having had to think of it. Hence my, er, faint air of lacking a certain sweetness and light.

  • technicolour

    The common cormant or shag

    Lays eggs inside a paper bag

    The reason, you will see, no doubt

    It is to keep the lightning out

    But what those unobservant birds

    Have never noticed is that herds

    Of wandering bears may come, with buns

    And steal the bags to hold the crumbs

    Christopher ‘I am Camera/Cabaret’ Isherwood, would you believe it.

  • Jaded.

    ‘Well, maybe I am in league with ‘apostate’, ‘jaded’, though I shouldn’t think anyone here would agree with you.

    But apologies, of course, if you’re not the ‘jaded’ who joined in a stream of random insults and specific anti-semitism at the beginning of this year. What a coincidence that you should choose the same name and resort to the same style of personal attacks. You must have a twin!’

    Technicolour, for starters I would warn against second guessing what the 110,000 unique visitors to this blog do or don’t think about those who comment. You may find yourslef coming seriously unstuck. However, if you really want to engage in such speculation don’t let me stop you.

    So, you think that little weasels who ‘cynically post on here with hidden agendas. Weasels that only wish to cause disruption and spread disinformation’ shouldn’t be insulted then? They should be made welcome right? Craig himself banned Larry for being such a specimen and you are defending them? This is all very suspicious I must say. Maybe you have do have some siblings on this site?! As for text I ***may or may not*** have written, please post any quotes you have in mind and I will be happy to assist you further. Thank you. 🙂

  • technicolour

    No please, do stop me. Are you not the ‘jaded’ who was posting random insults and specific anti-semitism on this blog at the start of the year?

  • Jaded.

    Technicolour – ‘No please, do stop me. Are you not the ‘jaded’ who was posting random insults and specific anti-semitism on this blog at the start of the year?’

    As I said:

    ‘please post any quotes you have in mind and I will be happy to assist you further. Thank you. :-)’

    Quite how, even after being providing with quotes and assisting you, that would stop you speculating about what the 110,000 unique visitors to this blog think about those who comment is completely beyond me… Maybe you need to ‘stop yourself’ and take stock of exactly what you are trying to say for a while? Moreover, you haven’t answered questions I have posed based on direct quotes you have written; yet you seem to be wildly hypothesising without providing any quotes whatsoever. Do you actually think that is grounds for sensible and constructive debate technicolour? Thank you.

  • technicolour

    Are you not the ‘jaded’ who was posting random insults and specific anti-semitism on this blog at the start of the year?

  • Alfred

    “Alfred,

    as usual, it looks like you’re stirring for the sake of it.”

    Bugger off Clark. You owe me an apology.

  • technicolour

    Some things in life are bad

    They can really make you mad

    Other things just make you swear and curse.

    When you’re chewing on life’s gristle

    Don’t grumble, give a whistle

    And this’ll help things turn out for the best…

    And…always look on the bright side of life…

    Always look on the light side of life…

    If life seems jolly rotten

    There’s something you’ve forgotten

    And that’s to laugh and smile and dance and sing.

    When you’re feeling in the dumps

    Don’t be silly chumps

    Just purse your lips and whistle – that’s the thing.

    And…always look on the bright side of life…

    Always look on the light side of life…

    For life is quite absurd

    And death’s the final word

    You must always face the curtain with a bow.

    Forget about your sin – give the audience a grin

    Enjoy it – it’s your last chance anyhow.

    and –

  • Jaded.

    Technicolour – ‘Are you not the ‘jaded’ who was posting random insults and specific anti-semitism on this blog at the start of the year?’

    For every further time you ask that consider this my response:

    ‘As I said:

    ‘please post any quotes you have in mind and I will be happy to assist you further. Thank you. :-)’

    I’m sure your 110,000 fans will be further impressed by your abundant intelligence. Ha ha ha. If you have anything new to add I will be happy to assist you. However, I think that will indeed be the sum of it and i’m not often wrong about such siblings. Thank you.

    P.S. Hmm, thinking about it, aren’t you that BNP technicolour who was lurking on this blog some months back? I’ll mull it over…

  • Jaded.

    So you’re another BNP technicolour? One of your siblings then? How many of you are there?

  • Jaded.

    I hope you and apostate get a good kip. It must be a really hard grind in the BNP… 🙂

  • sandcrab

    fwiw i think that if this Jaded is not the same Jaded of the banned jew and gay bashing bunch, its her(?) job to distinguish herself or choose an distinct nick.

    Ive been reading Suhayl’s novella, ‘The Spanish House’ ,slowly, the language and imagery is nutritious, its having a stimulating effect on my sourcefile addled mind and im just getting to juicy bits…

    nighto’ Techni and all.

  • Jaded.

    Sandcrab – ‘fwiw i think that if this Jaded is not the same Jaded of the banned jew and gay bashing bunch, its her(?) job to distinguish herself or choose an distinct nick.’

    Well, for what it’s worth, I must say that there seems to be a serious shortage of quotes from this notorious user you both speak of. One would have thought that it would be a very simple task to highlight what you deemed to be the worst of them, even if just a few. However, there hasn’t even been one quote presented yet. Very strange indeed. Could it, could it really be that you are both deluded, crazy persons? Hmm… The 110,000 can judge for themselves and send round the men in white coats if needs be. I will not second guess them. Thank you.

  • Clark

    Jaded,

    Technicolour (when you return),

    please don’t fight. I vaguely remember that argument; I don’t think I can remember which thread it was on now. Things got pretty heated and there were other people involved. I think there may be some confusion here.

    Anyone remember which thread?

  • sandcrab

    This ~maybe,

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

    archives/2009/04/holocaust_denia.html

    Sorry Jaded, i tried to dig some dirt on you but just skimmed through a dozen or so perfectly fine posts. I think you may have taken a difficult position in that thread and perhaps others, but you seem to have been quite misaligned.

    Many apologies.

  • Jaded.

    ‘Jaded,

    Technicolour (when you return),

    please don’t fight. I vaguely remember that argument; I don’t think I can remember which thread it was on now. Things got pretty heated and there were other people involved. I think there may be some confusion here.

    Anyone remember which thread?’

    No, I don’t think this notorious user they speak of would have only been active on one thread. Technicolour seems to be referring to a dedicated user active over a period of time. Scroll up a few inches and read his comments. As for ‘fighting’, well, I think you solely need to talk to Technicolour about that. He made accusations and I asked for quotes. If he wasn’t prepared to get quotes he could have dropped it. However, he didn’t drop it and persisted. That’s more akin to a wannabe bully picking on someone and that someone standing up to them. After being made to look a fool and getting a taste of his own medicine he obviously thought it best to skulk off. He needs to present quotes, which I will civilly address, or just shut up. It’s as simple as that in my view Clark. Or do you disagree with my general assessment? 🙂

  • Jaded.

    Sandcrab – ‘Sorry Jaded, i tried to dig some dirt on you but just skimmed through a dozen or so perfectly fine posts. I think you may have taken a difficult position in that thread and perhaps others, but you seem to have been quite misaligned.

    Many apologies.’

    Like I said, if you wish to present a quote I will address it. If you don’t, then fine. No problem.

  • avatar singh

    did not want to comment but seeing so much about India getting rich and what not-I could nto resist this commnet.

    well itidoes nto matter if India is getting rich -what matters is what proportioan of indioans are reaping the beenfit odf that richness.

    Bharat, from the worlds richest and most literate, to the most poor and illiterate in 200 years.

    Gross Domestic Product in Millions of Dollars

    Year 1000 1500 1600 1700

    India 33.8 60.5 74.3 90.8

    China 26.6 61.8 96.0 82.8

    WEurope 10.2 44.3 66.0 83.4

    World 116.8 247.1 329.4 371.4

    here is why and how it happend-due to pirate english bastards.

    =————————————————————————————————————————

    “I have travelled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar or who is a thief. Such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values & people of such calibre, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and therefore I propose that we replace her Old and ancient education system, Her culture , for if the Indians think that all that if foreing and english is goodand greater than their own, they will lose thier self esteem, their native culture and and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated nation.”

    – (Lord McCauley in his speech of

    Feb 2, 1835, British Parliament)

    India has always been amosnt the top 3 richest countries in the world in histoical time until 1870 when after about 100 yrs looting by the en,glish apirates andf destruction of her iundustry-deliberatley doen bu7y the enlgish pirates- India became the topmost poor country int he world at time of indepdence in 1947. since then we tried self sufficennecy in industry and in scince the fruit odf wy 1980s but then by 19091 we had imposed on us an unlelcted harami manmohn singh who is a british and american agent and jsut like many stooges the world over he works for angloamericna interests and has run americnapolicy of buying th elite class to the detriment of the masses.

    in todays india despite so many consymer goods and shottping mall the farmers are commiting sucie for last 15 years and india is an agragrain society with 65 % living ion vilalges depdnet on farming and its associted industry. so you can see th eplioght of average indians who have bene robbed t=by the anglophile corrupt elite class.

    ans goldman sachs is a parasite bank which is trying to make india a colony by first flattering the elite class there and then underminign the defence capability of india.

    as for someone having 50000 dolallrs in india or usa-yes the person having that much in idna is atleast 6 times richer than in usa because the cost of living is much less.(railway fare, food, clotheing, restaurnt, entertainment, education etc).

    and indian middle class cost is one of house . good food, clothes , car or motorcycle, entertainment and most important of all private schooling (though govt shcooling and university is free middle class prefer private)- all combined they can live happily with this standard of living on say 30000 Rupees equivalent to about 700 doallrs a month or about.(many earn about 300000 Rs per month aswell) and the middle class is or bank officer or beaurocrat or MBA. middle class in idnia means bascially unicvversity educated-itihas nothing to do with your income a shopkkppeer who is ilelterate is nota middle clas in India

    then think how many of americans can live on 7000 doallar a month on standard of a middle class life style?

    and the reason mittal(not that he is not honest) and his rich like people from thrid world like donto go to India is becaus london has the highest concnetration of stolen money in the world and all theives want to stay there because british govt. takes good care of them-where else criminals woudl get so much govt. and media patronage??

    India can always get a real govt which might confiscate the a-unaccounted money from the rich -hence the danger.and thier ayslum in london and cayman islands.

    =========================================7th october, 2008

    even after the obvious faliure of free markeeters in america this americna gen manmonan singh ( a person who is not only unlelected but unelectable-he sttod for lower house of parliament but was throughly defeated by the elctorate-then he entered parliament through uppwer house-like house of lords from where he is not supposed to become prime minsiter at all-but law was circumvented for him) such is the democracy we are talking about) not been killed frhh treason but also not chastised

    this manmhan singh is a charlaton whose theory fits with fit with Milton Friedman’s “greed is good” Chicago School mumbo jumbo. Both Friedman and Kemp believe that what is good for the stock market is good for America, ignoring the shocking economic polarization that has divided the nation. Now, more and more people are beginning to see that Friedman was a charlatan who provided ideological cover for obscenely rich financiers and their dodgy investment scams.

    may 9th , 2007.

    This ( rejected thrice by the public in general election) prime minister(installed at american behest) manmaohan singh is trying to enter parliament again through vack door-he filled nomination through assam with help of sonai gandhi congress(of whoioch he is not a leader or person of any singificance).

    such is the democracy we live in.

    i thought democracy meansd people electing the party and primeminister to be elected through that elelctable persons.

    but as for american definigitn of democracy like in stooge s in afggansitana nd iraq we have an americana tooge who doe snot need to boyther wabout indian opinion because he has not been s-chosen by the indian people for the post but isntalled by a foreing country to make idnia run for foreing.es nbenefit.

    and we are celebrating 150 yrs of what?

    return of the company and corporate again?(not called ast or west india company this time but same nevertheless)..

    the media now decries that the polling rate in india is rapdly going down that in india where the people have always been enthusiatic to

    vote. doe sit not occur to media that pepel are now refusing to rubber stamp the primeminsiter sna his cabinet when the people have already

    rejected such lots and still unelectable person gets chosen as prime minister of foren minister(jaswant singh) with no popular support

    anbut only because angloamerican agents in india want that to be. For several general elections the people have rejected the so called

    loiberalization and wasnhington consensus policy of govet. of india but each time new govt is elected the media astrats telling that

    economic and foreing policy msut not change even though people have overwhelmingly voted against that.

    media brings erronaeous cause for defeat of incumbent govt. like secratarianism and all russbih but never mentions that people have thrown

    that american dictated policy being pursued by both parties.

    Such is the genesis of indian electorate’s disilluionment with voting -all due to corruption of media and jourtnalists along with the

    busisness class of india(these days traitor FICI is organising more conferences than the govt. of India for inter-ministerial meetings!.

    How India is being treacherously enslaved by angloamerican agents likes of (unelectable and defeated in democratic election ) this Pm

    manmohan singh and the english media inside india.

    a great misconception is that so caled liberalization and globalization was brought to india by this manmohan singh. In fact soon after

    victory in iraq war in febraury 1991 the bush no. first declared a new world order in which he explicitly said that he will open up the

    world for american business. In fact his trade seccratary immeditealy annomnuced that she will make sure that america open up the thighs

    of thrid world countries (Like as with a vice ) as a slwoly and surely to american business(true analogy to a rape)-that was given the name

    Liberalization and globalization for which the british and americans had been working since 1986. What was left for america to do was

    install maleable stooges inside the thrirld world countries. escpeally those types who are unelctable and have no mass base of their own–

    in other words who are not elelctable democratically but installed from above through media and other manipulations.

    this manmohan singh in india fulffiled that criteria of being unliked and unelctable insignificant person who was willing to act on arder

    of his american masters -if they had asked him to turn communist he would have done that.It is this traitor manmohan singh who informed

    america of impending Indian nuclear test in 1993 and also who openly said that iran pakistan inida pipe line would be difficlt to finance

    -just because his americans masters did not want that!

    It isa sad refletion on india that since 1986 we

    have has only weaklings as our prime minsiters and fincnace minsiters not to speak of non mentionable defence misnters who made sure that

    Indians nuclear and missle programme got stuck at 1986.

  • Clark

    Jaded,

    my guess is that Technicolour had you confused with someone else. You got accused (mistakenly, I think) all those months ago, and feel cross – please remember I’m just guessing.

    Other people were deliberately stirring in that argument, and the damage was done. Now I’m just trying to re-establish peace. It did used to be peaceful here most of the time, I seem to remember, before the trolling began.

    I respect Technicolour, who has a fine humanitarian outlook, makes good points and has a good sense of humour. I think there’s been a mix up.

  • Clark

    Jaded,

    I think Sandcrab meant “maligned” rather than “misaligned”.

    But Technicolour wouldn’t deliberately malign someone. It’s a snafu.

  • sandcrab

    Yes Clark, I think all the actual trolling in recent seasons has caused a bit too much hostility and suspicion.

    Jaded, i concur with the position you took on that issue and respect you for putting it. It may have been confused as the ‘rear guard’ to steelborns problematic links and prejudices. But the body of your posts i scanned dont bare that out at all. I look forward to reading you again.

    avatar singh – great post for India!

    be well’ night folks’

  • Jaded.

    Clark – ‘Jaded,

    my guess is that Technicolour had you confused with someone else. You got accused (mistakenly, I think) all those months ago, and feel cross – please remember I’m just guessing.

    Other people were deliberately stirring in that argument, and the damage was done. Now I’m just trying to re-establish peace. It did used to be peaceful here most of the time, I seem to remember, before the trolling began.

    I respect Technicolour, who has a fine humanitarian outlook, makes good points and has a good sense of humour. I think there’s been a mix up.’

    Well, my position remains the same. If someone wishes to present a quote I will address it. If they don’t, then fine. No problem. It will soon become apparent if anyone wishes to continue this without presenting a quote. I will always stand up for myself. We shall see…

    For the record, I will always insult trolls. I have been online and engaged in controversial debate for many years and it isn’t just ‘disagreers’ I am talking about. After a while it becomes totally obvious who these people are. They fully deserve to be insulted and booted off. For example, idiots who believe in the official narrative of 9/11 are just docile sheep. They wouldn’t cyber fight tooth and nail, 24 hours a day, ad infinitum in defence of the official narrative! It’s ‘beyond obvious’ who these people work for.

    This is a personal blog; not a forum or chat room. If Craig didn’t want me here he wouldn’t need to ban me. He need only ask me to leave and I would respect his decision and go. Shame the same can’t be said of Larry the Lamb…

  • technicolour

    @jaded: Yes, it’s interesting that you seize the right to ‘insult people’ on this board and ‘boot them off’. I think the latter decision is down to Craig, and I object to both your assumption of power and your insults. Even if, you note, they are directed at someone with whom I have disagreed.

    In the meantime, are you this ‘jaded’: yes or no?:

    Jaded to eddie (who Craig had not banned) 26 Jan 2010:

    “You are a vile, disgusting, little weasel. Get a life. MI5/MI6 are completely corporate now. They have no interest in ‘Defence Of The Realm’. Any agents that think otherwise are grossly deluded. They just represent psychopathic crooks. Do you really not see that or are you accepting of it? Or are you even gladly one of them? Which is it you pile of stinking trash???”

    And, ‘jaded’. Do you have any connection to this poster, ‘Apostate’, posting to Craig on the same thread shortly after:

    “Your “bollocks” comment re-tungsten’s references to B’nai B’rith show a deep ignorance of history.May I suggest you start by doing some of your own research re-the history of the Lobby.Had you been more aware of the extent of its reach and influence I dare say you might still be in Samarkand or even the Lords today!

    The generally vaccuous and ahistorical comments on your message board seem to be a reflection of a generalized knee-jerk phobia re-what elites progamme you to think of as “conspiracy theory. Unfortunately it seems you share this willed blindness to facts and reality.”

    And for stylistic comparison, ‘Jaded’, just now:

    “For example, idiots who believe in the official narrative of 9/11 are just docile sheep. They wouldn’t cyber fight tooth and nail, 24 hours a day, ad infinitum in defence of the official narrative! It’s ‘beyond obvious’ who these people work for.”

    Really, goodnight.

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