With genuine reluctance, I find myself obliged to ban Larry from St Louis from commenting on this blog.
I am extremely happy for people to comment on this blog who disagree with my views. It makes it much more interesting for everybody. I wish more people who disagree would comment.
But Larry has a different agenda. His technique is continually to accuse me of holding opinions which I do not in fact hold, and which he thinks will call my judgement into doubt.
Take this comment posted by Larry at 9.35 am today:
I’ve re-read your post on the Russian spies, and once again you’ve proven to be a complete dumbass.
I predicted Russia claiming (in some minor way) those idiots. You didn’t. You thought it was a conspiracy.
You’ve once again self-indicted.
In fact my view on the Russian spies was the exact opposite of what Larry claims it was. As I posted:
I don’t have any difficulty in believing that the FBI really have discovered a colony of Russian sleeper spies in the United States.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/06/those_russian_s.html#comments
This is not Larry being mistaken – remember he claimed he had just re-read my posting. It is rather indicative of a very deliberate technique he has used scores of times, that of claiming I hold an opinion which he believes will devalue my other arguments in the mind of other readers, when I do not in fact hold that opinion.
He most often – indeed daily – does this with reference to 9/11. He tries to divert almost every thread on to the topic of 9/11 and to insinuate that I am among those who believe that 9/11 was “an inside job”. In fact, I am not of that opinion and never have been.
I have put up with this now for months, but Larry’s activities have become so frenetic and are so counter-productive to informed debate, I am not prepared to put up with it any more. I am also deeply sucpicious of the fact that he is able to spend more time on this blog than me, and to post right around the clock (often as with this one at 9.35am – think about it – what time is that in the US?).
Anyway, sorry Larry, your derailing days are over.
.
Anent 9-11 – my personal stance is that I remain unconvinced by the official US government narrative (no explanation for the no-fly of US warplanes and several other gaping holes of consistency); but neither am I convinced by the White-House-conspiracy narrative in its various forms. I would generally go along with the argument that it would be difficult to keep the conspiracy a secret in government circles. What would be of more value would be to assemble a list of possible (and plausible) explanations. I would rather compare and contrast these in order to get closer to the truth, which I dont believe has yet emerged. This is because I’m a skeptic, which in the eyes of the trolls makes me a conspiraloon.
Well better a conspiraloon than a soulless, dead-eyed arse-licking toady.
“I would generally go along with the argument that it would be difficult to keep the conspiracy a secret in government circles”.
Personally I think very few people in government circles were involved. There may in fact only have been one. That would undoubtedly be Cheney, on account of his documented refusal to lift a stand-down order in respect of scrambling jets to intercept the Pentagon plane until it was just 10 miles from Washington.
Browsing through all the comments underneath your post about Trolls in general and Larry in particular, I find the whole comments section infested by trolls, starting with someone from Canada who calls himself “Alfred”, then a few “somebody”s, “anonymouses” and so on. It’s always about 9/11 and 7/7, or “race”, or the “jews”, no matter what you wrote in your blog post, and it’s really getting boring now.
I think I simply stop reading the comments now, which once used to be really great. But that was years ago.
It’s a fight you can’t win, you actually need to ban certain IPs directly from the server.
“Anent 9-11 – my personal stance is that I remain unconvinced by the official US government narrative (no explanation for the no-fly of US warplanes and several other gaping holes of consistency)”
Oh, it’s always 9/11 round here!
😛
Anyway, planes *were* scrambled on the day. Not from Andrews AFB because it wasn’t a NORAD (or NEADS, I could be mixing this up) “alert” site. The planes that were scrambled flew out of Langley and Otis (and only later from other sites). None of the planes were given enough time to intercept their targets and they were often still chasing planes that had already crashed by the time it became known that yet another plane had been hijacked. I think there were only ever four fighter planes in the air during the whole attack (two pairs of planes) so it is hardly surprising that they didn’t intercept any of the airliners.
There was no “stand-down” order. There is no single claim at all of a stand-down order, it has simply been extrapolated out of thin air.
“you actually need to ban certain IPs directly from the server”.
That’s absolutely correct. There’s a particular discussion board I habituate that focuses on pretty controversial and divisive topics. It’s very heavily moderated. There are two main rules: you’ve got stay on topic and you’ve got to be courteous. Any posts that break these rules are removed. Persistent offenders are banned by blocking their IP address. The result is a hugely informative, enlightening and well-mannered discussion forum.
Suhayl, asks:
“do you believe in vegetal consciousness, Alfred (and no wise-cracks, mind!)? I know it’s perhaps not your specific field, but it’s an interesting topic nonetheless.”
The only evidence I recall was published many years ago in the annals of the Journal of Irreproducible Results, which recorded a study that purported to demonstrate Pavlovian conditioning in the leaf-curl response of Mimosa pudica. It seems that, today, journals published by Elsevier Science have now taken responsibility for publishing results in the exciting field of vegetal psychology:
http://tiny.cc/vvg4u
As for comparison between the fate of the natives of the city of Leicester and of the island of Tasmania, I suppose if only half the indigenous population of my father’s home town of Leicester has been disposed of I should not call it ethnic cleansing, rather partial ethnic cleansing ?” sounds like partial birth abortion, another policy quite acceptable to the liberal establishment, whether nominally Conservative, Liberal or Labour.
But this light years off topic, and anyway you are merely pushing the settler line, so there is no scope for agreement.
“There is no single claim at all of a stand-down order, it has simply been extrapolated out of thin air”.
I beg to differ. Check out the testimony of Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta to the 9/11 Commission.
@ MJ
I remmeber Larry (at least I think it was Larry) that gave you a good stretch on the passenger lists.
Richard Robinson, yes, sorry, I remembered later today, when I didn’t have internet access, that your wondrous box of songs contains lots of ones that aren’t English. Thanks for reminding us all of that. It’s a super resource.
Yes, I think anyone can post under any, or no name, so the hydra may well be on the loose!
Btw, whoever asked about eddie, he’s never gone away but still pops-up from time-to-time (he doesn’t like hats). Alfred Burdett has been commenting hereabouts for some months (he likes cellular organelles and ‘Tales from Great Britain in the Time of the Ice Age’).
Vronsky, that was a fascinating article, esp. as it was written from the point-of-view of a pro-US Government stance. Of course, the question is, how many of these tactics suggested as info-weapons by the authors are used, not just against ‘conspiracy networks’ in order ostensibly to reduce a drift towards extremism, but against valid political websites like this one which engage in a sustained critique of power. I suspect the same, and different, tactics. While, with the ‘conspiracy’ groups, the idea posited is to diversify available narratives and expand epistemological space, with rational anti-war/ anti-imperialist sites/ groups, the idea would be to disrupt, dishearten, sow internal division and in fact to generate ‘extremist’ positions and responses in order to discredit the site in the eyes of rational anti-imperialists – what’s the acronym again? – in other words). Same subcontractors, though.
—-“Don’t be daft. If someone in the FCO were to write a glowing obituary of someone in the Tamil Tigers”—–
The Norwegian government sent their International Development Minister to Anton Balasingham’s funeral in 2006, and the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu sent this message as condolence: “one who won the hearts and minds of Tamils the world over”.
They’re both still in the same jobs.
“I remmeber Larry (at least I think it was Larry) that gave you a good stretch on the passenger lists”.
That was angrysoba, bless him.
Alfred, thanks for the ‘vegetable’ link, will check it out.
“disposed of” in relation to Leicester is just silly. Some of your dad’s pals might have moved to Scotland, where they are very welcome, btw, or to other towns and cities in the UK, like Nottingham or Peterborough. Many are still in Leicester. In Yorkshire, the textile industry hired lots of workers from S. Asia in the post-war period, and they’re still there, in those towns. It’s no surprise. The inhabitants of Leeds have not been “disposed of”. Richard Robinson’s tunes are/ were on the Leeds University website – and excellent tunes they are, too. The oil industry brings lots of different types of people to Aberdeen, including some from Leicester. Some parts of Andalusia now are almost wholly ‘English’, but no-one’s been “disposed of”.
“I beg to differ. Check out the testimony of Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta to the 9/11 Commission.”
If you can show me where he uses the words, “stand-down order”. That would be good.
@ MJ
“That was angrysoba, bless him.” – yeah, like I said, Larry gave you a good stretch on the passenger lists”
😉
“”I remmeber Larry (at least I think it was Larry) that gave you a good stretch on the passenger lists”.
That was angrysoba, bless him.”
Again, this was something that came from DRG reading a “victims list” and thinking it was a flight manifest when it never was and had never claimed to be.
Of course, once a rumour was up and running it became the de facto Truth that needed to be debunked.
DRG: “There were no Arab names on the manifests that CNN reported!”
AS: “They aren’t the manifests. They’re victims lists.”
MJ: “Then where are the manifests?”
AS: “Here.”
MJ: “How do you know they’re real?”
“Richard Robinson’s tunes are/were on the Leeds University website”
Were, for a long time. Now, it has been disposed of, if you like. Zombified. It all looks fine until you actually try and see any of the material, then it 404s. But it won’t go away. Undead ! Invasion of the beancounters ! http://livetunebook.qualmograph.org.uk/ is what works now.
Leicester, ethnic cleansing ? This is completely surreal. Where are the refugee camps ? [sour], and again, the Canadian preaching Anglo Culture doesn’t agree with “the settler line”. It doesn’t make rational sense.
Richard,
Re: “I agree about digression, but (we risk a vicious circle of mutual trolling ? in search of the Last Word) you say ethnic cleansing, I ask why you insist on that and what about the other possibilities ? and you say more ethnic cleansing. I do consider it paranoid.”
For the reasons you state, I hesitate to respond. However, so far as deviation is concerned, most of the last 50 post have been totally irrelevant, so what the heck.
I don’t actually like the term ethnic cleansing, genocide is more explicit. And as noted in response to Suhayl, it is incorrect to say that the indigenous population of my Father’s home town of Leicester has been genocided, in reality it has only been half genocided.
You, and most people here seem to think that because I believe, as do most of the indigenous people of Britain (see the very clear-cut opinion survey results on immigration), that the British in Britain should not be displaced in large part by people from elsewhere I must dislike people who are of non-British ethnicity. This is the point I made originally, many people here do what Craig asserts that Larry does, which is to accuse others of “holding opinions which [they] do not in fact hold, and which he[she] thinks will call [their opponent’s] judgement into doubt.”
Actually, I am not suggesting that that is what you are doing. But the modern lib-left mind is generally unable to grasp that people may want and are entitled to have a homeland if the can get it and hold it. And when I say “entitled” I merely assert that this is the law of life. Those who like the Tasmanians just give up cease to exist, they become extinct. This is natural selection at work. The weak go to the wall.
The notion is often expressed here that the British are some kind of colonizing racist monsters (I refer specifically to comments by Avatar Singh, and Suhayl’s Viking history of the English). That was a natural view for the losers to take in the days of British supremacy, but today the British are not supreme, they are hardly anything: a small people (less than half as numerous as the Pakistanis or the Bangla Deshis, one thirtieth as numerous as the Indians) in a small country (one sixth the size of Pakistan, one thirtieth the size of Canada) subject to domination by many foreign influences.
In fact, my view of the British, my own people, is not that they are some kind of master race, a totally deluded notion if anyone holds it, but that they are a rather hopeless lot: ripe for the taking. Some, of course, are people to whom I am strongly attached. But the idea that I like dislike non-British or non-white people is a total non-sequitur and is, furthermore, entirely false. Canada, where I live, is a multiracial society and that’s fine with me. On a fine summer day, I can walk down Government St. here in Victoria and see beautiful women of just about every ethnicity in the World. Better still, I can see them at the beach: the cutest yesterday being a pair of, I think, West Indians.
im intrigued as to the explantion of we had 4 groups of planes in the air already, correct me if im wrong but the nearest afb is minutes, its an afb, its taksed with protecting the capitol, are u suggesting a measurley couple of jets from the base are tasked with this duty?
anyway as to 9/11, pick on the stuff that allows you minimal distraction at the onset and challenge what ios provable.
wt7 didn’t fall down by fire…fact
explosives are the only explanation fitting its collapse. By addressing everything relating to wt7 you open all sorts of cans of worms…
I told you to be suspicious Craig!
I’m afraid you’ll only begin to tackle this if you resort to registered users and ban those accounts that case problems.
I know I’ve posted from at least three different IP addresses, so no point banning by IP.
Alfred,
you are again inciting spurious argument. If this is deliberate, I’d regard it as trolling. If you are unaware of it, then I think you should examine your feelings.
Easy – you ban by email address – just need email to logon ok some people have multiple email accounts but you then match to IP address – best solution.
What Viking history? Oh, you mean the publisher, Viking. I thought you were asserting that I thought the English have horns! And if you care to recall, it was me who pulled Avatar Singh up about his comments on ‘the English’. I have never argued that an group of people people are “colonizing racist monsters” (I note thast you use North American spelling convention, rather than British spelling convention). I know you’re not racist, Alfred, I’ve said that before.
But I do disagree with the parallels you seem to draw b/w what happened to the native peoples of America/ Australia and the situation in the UK today. I also think that instead of directing your fire at transnational corporate capitalism which is responsible for much of the dynamic (it being the dominant economic system today), you attempt to seek essentialist reasons for your disatisfactions about the way you imagine Britian to be and you find them in biology and something which attempts to project backwards, Britishness to the last Ice Age. The woolly mammoths would find your argmentation amusing.
Nonetheless, may your passegiatas in Victoria, British Columbia always be filled with pleasant and fruitful imagery.
angrysoba: I’m not sure who DRG was on the thread and I don’t recall the interchange (link?), but my point was that the official passenger manifests have never been published. The 911 Commission did not request them and they are not in the public domain.
Clark, says
“you are again inciting spurious argument. If this is deliberate, I’d regard it as trolling. If you are unaware of it, then I think you should examine your feelings.”
Yeah, don’t trouble yourself with any explanation of your seemingly spurious allegations. Maybe it’s you who needs to see a shrink.
Smith wrote: “It’s remarkable that a member of the FCO was gushing over a terrorist in the first place.”
A significant number of prominent members of the Israeli governments were terrorists themselves or related to terrorists. It was the Israelis that killed British in the King David Hotel terrorist action. However Zionist terrorists seem to have a get-out-of-jail free card.
The interesting thing about this blog is that all mention of 9/11 is supposed to be hived off onto some thread no one looks at. Yet 9/11 is the key to New World Order, the war on terror and the reason why Britain and other Nato countries find themselves killing Pakistanis and Afghans and Iraqis and tolerating Israeli genocide against Palestinians. So shouldn’t we be looking at 9/11 before all else? I think so. At least we should be willing to look at new evidence as it arises. Or are folks happy to live in a world where the proletariat can be murdered at will be the elite in order to buffalo the masses into their imperialist agenda?
Alfred,
I could explain, but I really don’t want to get into an argument. And it’s rather public here. Are you sure you wish me to proceed?
Suhayl asked: “What Viking history?”
A history of England for the perspective of the Vikings, where the English are all piratical scum as you outlined elsewhere.
There is that massively long thread, Alfred. It’s to stop the subject taking-over everything else that I think Craig decided to try to allow it – as with other subjects – its own space. Also, lots of ‘trolls’ were attempting to turn everything towards the subject in order to portray the site as a ‘conspiraloon’ (interesting neologism) site. There is much more to these imperialist wars than the events of late 2001 in NYC and DC. Much more. Systemic subjects, economics, war generation, etc. But you know this. So what are you suggesting? And why?
Clark asks:
“Are you sure you wish me to proceed?”
No I’m not sure at all Clark. It’s true I don’t know what you are talking about, but I’m sure it’s off topic — LOL.