The passing of wood through glass is a remarkable feat. There are those who believe that royalty can perform miracles – there is a well developed cult around the vain and vicious Charles I, for example. It now appears that the presence of the future Charles III also has the ability to suspend the laws of physics.
The police have now issued extensive CCTV footage of the attack on the vehicle of Charles and Camilla on the fringes of the anti-tuition fee demonstrations, and the media have been replete with more nonsense about Camilla being poked with a stick. Yet of all the CCTV footage and numerous photographs, there is no evidence at all of this attack and all the images show the car windows to be closed – as they would be. One gets cracked but not holed.
There is in fact no evidence at all of any intent to harm the persons of the expensive royal layabouts, as opposed to discomfiting them and damaging their vehicle. It is fascinating that the media continually repeats the “Camilla attacked with a stick” line when it is so blatantly untrue. There appears to be a closing of ranks by the whole Establishment to perpetuate the myth – both the Home Office and St James Palace have deliberately fostered the myth by refusing to confirm or deny.
Personally I would not touch Camilla with a bargepole. I dislike violence at demonstrations. Demonstrations, good, riots, bad is my basic mantra. Attacks on people in a civil demonstration are always wrong, including attacks on the police unless in self defence. I did not join in the outrage at the prosecutions of violent demonstrators after the big Lebanon demonstration in London, because I personally witnessed the group hurling dangerous missiles at police who were neither attacking, threatening nor kettling them. That is absolutely unacceptable.
But a policy as appalling as the withdrawal of state funding from university teaching, carried out by Nick Clegg by one of the most blatant political breaches of fatih with the public in history, , is bound to provoke huge anger. The government reaps what it sows. Demonstrators should not set out to hurt people. But all the evidence shows they had no intention of hurting Charles and Camilla.
I have personally worked closely with the royal family’s close protection officers in organising two state visits abroad, and plainly they too could see there was no intent to injure – that is why weapons were not drawn. They deserve commendation rather than the crap spouted out by Sky News, who seem to think they should have gunned down the odd student.
All of which serves to take the focus off vicious police attacks on students and the use of kettling to detain people who were seeking peacefully to express their views. Kettling people in extreme cold and with no access to toilet facilities raises questions on illegal detention which genuine liberals in government would wish to address. What is it? Is it a form of arrest? What is the status of the fenced pens into which people are herded? Should they not be formalised as places of police detention, and individuals booked in and given access to lawyers? If that is not possible, this detention – which can be for many hours – is not lawful.
No problem @dreoilin, and do get well soon.
@Paul – thanks for your post on kettling. Agreed, the metaphor makes sense – what confuses me is that it sounds like the authorities +want+ to make matters worse. They might as well come up with a “harassment enclosure” or a “intimidation formation”, and publicise the terms widely! Perhaps they don’t have a particularly good PR department?
As someone who was involved in direct action during the 1980/90’s, I am not surprised as to how much the green Movement and I beleive also, the Green party, have been penetrated at the highest level.
This now paints a picture of forces at work that advance an agenda of societal undermining to the point that they generate the events themselves.
Mark Kennedy has said there are many more just like him, so other protests have also been undermined, like the Stop Stanstead expansion campaign.
How many undercover bods waste their times in NGO’s campaigns, SWP, Greenpeace, Green Party, how much hard cash, as reported, and years of training as a police officer, were wasted.
I think the man is in dire need of protection. and i think this is really unfinished business, who and hwat happened in the bean field, who steered the locals in twyford Down, whats known of the Aldermaston campaing, this will run for some time
Would it be be a good idea for someone to spill the beanz, here for all I care?
There is a pool of coppers out there running within demonstrations, throwing brand new bins at funny black cars with chutney growers inside and winbding up people to smash windows, they are not a rare species anymore, they have been seen and photographed and they are leaving trails.
In Marks case, trails of tears and rightly so, the man needs forgiving and taking care off, he is a whistle blower just as Craig is.
These are sinister times.
btw. Tommorrow is Julian Assanges hearing if I’m not mistaken, in Belmasrsh, a terrorist court with all the connotations, round two of the demonisation is about to begin.
Meanwhile Bradley Manning gets tortured some more and everyone is cowering to the cyber bully, best not say Jack Shit, a slight waft of air and a thunderclap echoes as Wikileaks supporters tails are folding, in unison, can you hear it?
Boycott all US goods until Bradley Mannig is released from his torturous regime, or charged, and until the cyberbullying and vindictiveness of third parties and Wikileaks supporters stops.
Not that anybody’s interested, but Derby City Council’s auction on Friday p.m. that got me a promise of £11.50 p.h. was revised downwards to £10 p.h. because they had found someone willing to do the job for less. In fact, if I didn’t want the job, could I come anyway and clear a few dustbin bags or groom a few lonely slags?
One of the reasons why Green politics has to be monitored by spooks is that Carbon trading is fraud. You allocate fictional carbon quotas to different countries and trade your illegal carbon excesses over your own quota with dirty trade deals. The presence of police agents is to monitor the straying of green idealism into the scandal of Carbon fraud.
Funny carbon is in my opinion as much a type of usury as Zionist banking interest. There is no reality to the value of the commodity of carbon quota, and in Islam, if there is no reality to something’s value, you have to sell it in order to find it’s market price. We saw how ruthlessly the police protect government from being exposed in its financial smoke and mirrors partnership with the banks and we are beginning to see how keen the government is to protect itself from being exposed on Carbon quota scams. Also bear in mind that the uplooming Renewable Heat Incentive , offering 50% grants to houseowners for moving to so-called renewable heating equipment, is going to be diverted into a massive banking bubble of deferred interest loans by a Tory magicked Green Bank.
So give us a break, wikiweeping policemen, and pseudo-scandalised politicians on the board of the metropolitan police. The lying, devious , back-pocketing fingerprints of New Labour and Condemn politicians are all over the so-called greening of the West. And China is not being conned by any of it. They are off-dollar and scalping our moral authority on everything from banking or greening to human rights.
Our system is so corrupt and the people who run the system so comprehensively united in its corruption, that sorry, but it’s curtains for the West.
Your best of all systems in the best of all possible worlds is completely morally and financially bankrupt.
dreoilin: Good luck with it, whatever it is. And agreed, we appear to have a rather rare balance of keeping the nutbags and trolls down, without ticking off genuine posters or making the place dull as ditchwater.
Dreoilin, tell them:
There once was a victim of hernia
who said to the surgeon God dernya
when carving my middle
please do not fiddle
with places that do not concernya.
And check behind your ears they haven’t microchipped you into a ConDemNewLab zombie, while you’re anaesthetised.
Craig noted the media continually reported Camilla as having ‘been hit with a stick’ which he said was ‘blatantly untrue’ in his post.
These small untruths are but one end of a ‘perception spectrum’ that encompasses assassinations, intimidations, covert ops, psychological ‘grooming’ propaganda and lies. The head of government, in our case, PM Cameron must play off these perceptions with compassionate Conservatism, ability to work with political adversaries, concern for the environment/natural resources and shrinking/devolving government to give the impression of empowering British people to control their own lives and destinies(hence ‘The Big Society’). All of these issues are of course polemic and require responsible government.
The ‘perception spectrum’ is obviously a critical part of the ‘War on Terror’ an infinite extension to the ‘Cold War’ and the excuse for British soldiers in Afghanistan and British led sanctions on Iran. It is as such largely controlled by the Security and intelligence services with some input from military intelligence. Oversight is provided from the Intelligence and Security Committee whose chairman I may add has received ‘indoctrination’ in ‘security’ concepts necessary to protect a sovereign state.
It is of course the ISC that ‘contained’ the 7/7 inquiry to focus on bringing finality for the sake of those injured and the relatives of those killed, rather than answer difficult questions posed by those that regard the official government inquiry, held under the remit of the Limiting Inquiries Act 2005 where guilt of the four accused was implicitly assumed, as a ‘whitewash’ because evidence does not corroborate the official story. The ISC has recently reassessed perception to include the problem of instant news via new media and the urgency required for official statements to direct public perception.
The ISC sounds a good idea until one realises that the intelligence services deny it some types of intelligence.
In 2010 Cameron introduced the National Security Council a sort of NSA/FEMA panel. The formation of NSC costs the British taxpayer £billions including £2billion for ‘cyber security’ threat analysis and investigation. NSC assesses risk including national disaster risks and pandemics in a similar fashion to FEMA the American Emergency Agency which I will examine in my ‘planning for the September 11th attacks’ when long time enforcer Joe Allbough was appointed by Bush in Feb. 2001.
The NSC was committed to ‘urgently review control orders’ but nearly a year has passed with no decision only quarrelling between parties:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8236037/Control-orders-Conservatives-and-Liberal-Democrats-remain-deeply-divided.html
The NSC will also seek to allow ‘intercept’ evidence in court.
“Kettling”.
When the word first emerged, there was a rumour floating around that it derived from the German, “Kessel”.
The whole thing’s a bit, er, “unattributable”. The earliest uses of the word “kettling” were in a couple of newpaper articles, that gave no source for it, but both also quoted the same stuff from an unnamed police spokesthing … and the German derivation is just something I saw Someone On The Internet say about it, with no explanation of how they knew; so it’s not necessarily the least bit dependable. (Later, having looked around a bit – en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettling mentions German police tactics as early examples, using that name, so it’s not entirely daft).
But google translates “kessel” as “cauldron”. So, possibly, kettle as in “kettle of fish”. At least faintly plausible, and what other explanation is there ? It’s a very odd term to use.
See also en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessel_(cauldron)#Kessel
(“http”s left off to dodge the dreaded moderation)
People like you put into the sick kid’s head that 911 was an inside job. You are far, far more to blame that Sarah Palin.
http://www.slate.com/id/2280653/
Hi guys,
Larry from St Louis here. Well my name’s not Larry, it’s really Billy Bob Cohen.
I’m an undercover cop as most of you’ve realised, sponging off the taxpayer. I’ve been an infiltrator and agent provocateur for ten years now but I’ve grown to love you guys so much that I’m now admitting I’ve been on the wrong side all along.
I’m in hiding now because the people I work for aren’t best pleased, and they’re out looking to whack me.
Please forgive me.
I love you guys.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jan/10/mark-kennedy-second-undercover-ecoactivist
Anno is right about carbon trading being a scam. Why else should Bliar be involved in flogging it round the world in his capacity as J P Morgan’s shill? They have a separate carbon trading division.
Brown also has an indirect interest in opposing the activists in that his brother Andrew has worked as head of media for the French energy conglomerate EDF who have two coal- fired power stations in this country and involvement in the plans to build nuclear stations.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5293459/Who-is-Andrew-Brown-Profile-of-Gordon-Browns-brother-MPs-expenses.html
The undercover plod was at work during NuLabour’s time. Can any connections be made?
NuLab was the most authoritarian government we’ve seen in Britain.
Its fascism is hardly a surprise.
Don’t vote for it ever again.
Mr Karimov has been invited to pay a state visit to Brussels. What a reward to the bloody people killer!!!
@Larry – for someone as smart as you, you sure do make a lot of silly generalisations. Views on your particular hobby horse vary wildly here, as you know.
But the question you imply is quite reasonable – which is more damaging, US government conspiracy theory, or militarist/gun rhetoric used in political discourse? I honestly don’t know – I can see how they could both be corrosive.
I suppose the dilemma about conspiracy theory in the general case is that quite a few of them turn out to be true, where the American government is involved. I am not of the view that all governments have such a disgraceful attachment to ‘black ops’ – William Blum’s “Rogue State” has quite a good list of foreign destabilisations the CIA has directed. Hence the widespread taste amongst the US populace – both left and right – that their government is always up to no good!
Given Obama’s record on drones and the assassination of US citizens, as well as the response to Wikileaks, I am not sure a great deal has changed in this regard. I guess my point is: if truth campaigns are popular, the US government has made them so – regardless of what happened on 9/11.
On medialens
Mark Kennedy knew of second undercover eco-activist
PC who infiltrated green movement is understood to have confirmed existence of a fellow police spy
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jan/10/mark-kennedy-second-undercover-ecoactivist
…PC Mark Kennedy is understood to have confirmed the woman was a fellow police officer two months ago, when being confronted by friends over his true identity.
…In parliament, Keith Vaz, the chairman of the Commons home affairs select committee, said he would write to the Met commissioner, Sir Paul Stephenson, after questions emerged over the accuracy of parliamentary testimony about the use of plain clothes officers at protests. Vaz said it had appeared the commissioner and one of his commanders, Bob Broadhurst, had failed to disclose “the full facts” about the infiltration of protests when giving parliamentary evidence in 2009. “During our inquiry into the G20 protests, [MPs] explicitly asked Sir Paul Stephenson and commander Bob Broadhurst about the deployment of undercover officers,” said Vaz. “I am disappointed they appear not to have given us the full facts.”
Labour MP David Winnick said the home secretary, Theresa May, should address the allegation that the Met officer strayed from being a passive spy, and worked instead as an agent provocateur.
The six friends present when Kennedy broke down and admitted he was a spy then asked him directly if the woman was also a police officer. “He [Kennedy] nodded and said: ‘Yeah, but you know about that already,” said Craig Logan, 37, who was present. Kennedy is then said to have indicated that there were several other police officers living undercover in the protest movement.
…In a tape recording during which Kennedy is questioned by another activist, broadcast last night on Newsnight, he is asked about the police use of infiltrators. “I’m not the only one by a long shot ?” it’s like a hammer to crack a nut. It’s spun in different ways but you know you start looking at the way the law is used and manipulated and well ?” ####,” he said.
Vaz: “I am disappointed they [senior police] appear not to have given us the full facts.”
Ha! This is a euphemism, surely, for: “Parliamentary decorum prevents me from suggesting that Stephenson and Broadhurst are a pair of lying bastards”.
Still, it’s likely to be as fruitful as hauling the secret services in and expecting a full and frank answer. These power structures are nearly – though thankfully not quite – a law unto themselves.
“Mr Karimov has been invited to pay a state visit to Brussels. What a reward to the bloody people killer!!!”
Second prize is two visits to Brussels.
Jon: “I guess my point is: if truth campaigns are popular, the US government has made them so – regardless of what happened on 9/11.”
Actually, in the States, the truther conspiracy theory is popular predominantly among Jew-hating right-wing Tim McVeigh NWO-fearing types. In Britain, trutherism seems popular on the left. In any event, it’s not actually “popular” to believe in nanothermite at the Towers or no plane at the Pentagon, as trutherism is increasingly a fringe belief.
Sadly, however, the conspiracy talk still gets kicked around, and it provides an excuse for people like the Tucson shooter to go on a rampage. People seem to want to blame Sarah Palin, but far, far more blame should be placed on Alex Jones and his fellow right-wing Americans, and left-wing Brits.
Edward Wollard has just received a sentence of two years and eight months in a young offenders’ institution for throwing a fire extinguisher from a roof. It could have caused serious brain damage or death if it had landed on one of the police officers below, but fortunately did not. While reckless in the extreme, luckily he didn’t injure anyone. What punishment then, (if any), will be handed out to the police officer who DID cause near fatal brain injury to Alfie Meadows, who required a three hour emergency surgery as a result of the injuries inflicted on him?
To assume that noLabour did not know is what every politicians would have said, its wriggling and I do not trust keith Vaz on this issue, whatever comes out in the end. I repeat this issue will run a mile.
It is also very dangerous for those in NGO’s, progressive socialist, young Labour party activists, maybe speaking amongst themselves who would like to do stuff, but can now only trust those they know for a very long time, who knows, not even them.
I recon that this is quet a substantial department in Scotland Yard and that those involved have all sorts of problems.
To start with, they have to be prepared to take drugs, drink to excess and we all know what Prof. Nutt said about alcohol and nicotine, don’t we, have to sleep with young activists in the interest of our country, poor lads and then there is the Christmas party.
These undercover officers, on a more serious note, might also have marrital problems, suffer from depression and guilt to a proportionally higher percentage than other units, some must feel like coping with a multiple personality disorder.
Should one offer these people a facillity, where they can download an encryption for their safety and anonymity, so nobody can find out who they are?
Should they then speak freely to the public, w one could inform the public via the alternative news media.
I hope someone will try a civil arrest on Mr. Karimov, or put him under a crosshair, sahras justice, it would not even take a madman, somebody quiet normal might want to do it, after all that man has made soooo many enemies,
good luck with bringing this man to the justice of his liking I say.
sorry, 1.49 was me…. I meant to write, to Jon and instead put him in the top box, accidentally, my fault Jon, forgive.
@ingo – fixed 🙂
Yes, I think this is the idea of expensive infiltration of these activist groups – to foster a culture of distrust. I don’t think it is that easy for the state, though – and in any case the state ends up looking increasingly authoritarian if they are discovered, as in this case. I am not of the view that activism has been irreparably harmed, and activists have not only been praised by a judge (“highest possible motives”) but also been shown to have some powerful enemies with undemocratic tactics.
Jon said, ‘I suppose the dilemma about conspiracy theory in the general case is that quite a few of them turn out to be true..’
At risk I will disclose one such ‘conspiracy theory’ that turned out to be true. It concerns Iran which of course has always been a crucial piece of geo-petroleum mosaic in the eyes of the West. And it is the West’s dealings with Iran in the 80’s that gives us a true account of a conspiracy that amounts to renege, acts of treachery and even treason that still awaits trial.
In October 1979 Brzezinski empowered by the Rockefellers would persuade President Carter to admit the fleeing, corrupt and gratuitous Shah Reza Pahlavi into America for ‘medical treatment’ which enraged a brutalised Iranian populace prompting a takeover of the American Embassy in Tehran.
It is clear from my discussion on Iran with the late Robin Cook and subsequent references and also the still -secret- deposition of Richard Allen, President Reagan’s foreign policy advisor, that Bush Snr. was able to intervene to block President Carter’s intended release of the American hostages until after the Reagan/Bush inauguration.
Indeed it was at the time an affront to PM Margaret Thatcher’s attempt to free the American hostages as a benevolent gesture:
news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101230/wl_uk_afp/britainiranusdiplomacyhostagehistory_20101230030139
– by sending John Green back to Iran to deliver a message urging Khomeini to release the 52 American hostages. This while William Casey/Bush worked on a clandestine deal with the Iranians during the Summer and Autumn of 1980.
The deal according to an Iranian contact and other researchers involved desperately needed spare parts that would be delivered by the Israelis to Iran via Amsterdam.
The takeover of the American Embassy according to Cook and others was used by David and Nelson Rockefeller to prevent Iran from withdrawing petrodollars from the Chase Manhattan Bank in London where the Shah kept most of his ‘stolen’ assets amounting to tens of billions of dollars which the Carter administration under pressure from Rockefeller interests, seized in it’s entirety.
Raymond Bonner – New York:Times Books 1987
Gary Sick – ‘October Surprise’ New York: Three Rivers 1991
Peter Dale Scott – University of California Press 2007
James A Bill – New Haven CT:Yale university Press 1988
Zbigniew Brzezinski – New York: Farrar, Straus & Gironz 1983
Ingo I wouldn’t trust Vaz on any issue. Always thought of him as something found under a stone.
On Tucson, Cynthia McKinney writes this morning:
‘I know every one is still trying to digest the assassination attempt on the Congresswoman. My mother called and told me that she didn’t sleep all night. She had flashbacks of our own experiences as a political family. My father and I had our share of hate mail, stalkings, FBI surveillance, and armed haters at our public appearances and Congressional events. You all are aware of recent events with me. I am paying close attention as more facts relating to this case are revealed and I am reserving judgment until more is known. Beware the political spin; this matter goes to the core of who we are as a country and is well beyond Democrats and Republicans scuffling for Congressional and State Legislative seats.’
I take the words of this rational and thoughtful woman.
‘Edward Wollard has just received a sentence of two years and eight months in a young offenders’ institution for throwing a fire extinguisher from a roof. It could have caused serious brain damage or death if it had landed on one of the police officers below, but fortunately did not. While reckless in the extreme, luckily he didn’t injure anyone. What punishment then, (if any), will be handed out to the police officer who DID cause near fatal brain injury to Alfie Meadows, who required a three hour emergency surgery as a result of the injuries inflicted on him?’
And also what punishment is going to be given to the police officer who killed Tomlinson?
It seems to me it’s OK for the police injure or kill citizens but any attempt to ‘harm’ a police officer even inadvertently is dealt with in a draconian manner.
‘Dean Smith, 31, was arrested by Derbyshire Police at his home in Swadlincote three days after he threw the snowball earlier this month.
He was later charged with common assault and appeared at Southern Derbyshire Magistrates’ Court..’
It seems quite clear that the government and its lackeys are out to suppress the population.
Larry, an interesting view – but one I don’t share, I’m afraid. I think belief in 9/11 conspiracy, amongst Americans in particular, in not at all a fringe perspective. This NYT article (2007) is not at all sympathetic to such views, and nevertheless reports a poll that says 62% of Americans believe that the administration had prior warning.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/item_sMUDAcY52kVmbaMJMM2CFM
I am *not* arguing for the validity of such a theory – I am not interested in that discussion, and I won’t be drawn into it. I am interested in your perspective though – are there any polls you can cite to support your view that government involvement theories are on the wane?
Meanwhile, I re-assert that it is well accepted that the CIA have funded all sorts of black ops, in Central and Latin America in particular. These ‘conspiracy theories’ have been shown to be true, which is perhaps why there is such a taste for these perspectives in the US.
On that basis, *if* conspiracy culture is more corrosive to national politics than gun culture, the US government would have to come clean about its past atrocities and vow to put a stop to this culture of lawlessness. Can we agree on that?
Furthermore, your belief that conspiracy culture is far more to blame than gun culture is predicated on the idea that 9/11 conspiracy is a fringe belief. As I’ve shown, such a theory isn’t a fringe belief, and in any case there is plenty of other kinds of conspiracy theory – later proven true – that might destabilise an individual who has come to believe that all government is inherently evil.
Re the ridiculous arrest for snowballing, the police said, “In general terms we don’t bring charges lightly.” Yeah, right! When it’s their own criminal behaviour they don’t bring charges at all. Why then are they surprised that ordinary law abiding members of the public hate and mistrust them?
Jon:
I encourage you to dig a little deeper on such polls. For instance, look at what specific questions are being asked. In the poll you cite, apparently a majority of people believe that it’s at the least “somewhat likely” that “federal officials turned a blind eye to specific warnings of the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon.” At least, that’s how the information is reported in the New York Post, a silly tabloid. Do we know that this was the actual question? In any event, for years after 911, even I would have answered this as “somewhat likely”. This is because I believed what many in the media were saying about the August PDB – that Bush was given warning about Sept. 11. However, I was wrong – there was nothing specific in the PDB (www.911myths.com/index.php/August_6_PDB).
In any event, there are all sorts of reasons that people would answer the question that way. Perhaps they attribute far too much knowledge to the federal government. Perhaps the questions leading up to that question pointed them in a specific direction.
It’s interesting to see how rare the “made it happen” belief is. screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2007/09/so-much-for-84.html
Yes, 911 truth is fringe. Look at how these people are vilified in public. They basically started the Tea Party movement, and nowadays for the most part they’re not welcome at such events. And the anti-war movement wants nothing to do with them – the peace movement in the States treats them like the StWC treats them over there.
Politically, they have few backers. If the belief were not fringe, one would expect some form of leadership. And look at what happened with Van Jones.
Leadership on the issue has been taken over by nuts like Alex Jones, a right-winger who otherwise plays on hatred for gays and Mexicans.
As to black ops, I don’t understand what you’re saying here. Whoever said that beliefs in such operations were conspiracy theories? Yes, governments do secret things. It’s been happening for years. These are not extraordinary claims that require extraordinary evidence.
Trying to expand the concept of “conspiracy theory” to include knowledge of secret government action is a common tactic among UFO advocates, Bigfoot chasers, lizard believers, NWO nuts, etc. But merely because the government does things and doesn’t tell you about them does not mean that such notions have any truth to them.
Thanks for the repair job earlier Jon.
Its going to be interesting to see whether wikileaks and the persecution of B.Manning will now be seen in a more pragmatic light, after the shooting of all these people, rather than continue in these religious extreme’s and on certain gatekeeper issues, peddled by redneck allegories, as used by a certain woman.
If she meant what she said to Glen beck, the schock jock, that she hates violence and murder, then why is she the living embodiment/model for the NRA?
She is naive to say the least, if she has any thoughts on a political future its ought to be on the local newspaper chat column, she’s one mean woman.
Thanks for Somebody and Ruth, Mark your report of the Iran Contra affair missed a few bits about arms trade, Olly North an his drugs for money for weaspons to kill and then whats left to sell to the Iranians chapter…
n’mind. 🙂
Lets hope it does not snow anymore, in the worst cases, on estate roundabouts, we have to expect teenagers cuffed to railings until nearly frozen, a new Met.snowpolice undercover unit, their squads policy for stopping children snowballing cars at junctions, har har
Inspector shufflebottom said ‘we have now managed this policy so well that children coming out of the local primary school look up into the sky, they dare’nt look at the snow…. no more snow balling here, now that we have taken concisive actions.
Some walk into trees and lamp posts mind, a lotta dental work, BUT you have to take the rough with the tumble these days don’t ya?’
Ahh what a brave new world, I think I might just seed my leeks this afternoon.
Larry
” these are not extraordinary claims that require extraordinary evidence”
Evidence’s gone Moishe.
Consequetive US Governments have been conspiring to undermine their own declared democratic principles, and that of many other Governments (Chile, Nicaragua)United Fruit Honduras etc etc, so what are you on about?
Thanks for the repair job earlier Jon.
Its going to be interesting to see whether wikileaks and the persecution of B.Manning will now be seen in a more pragmatic light, after the shooting of all these people, rather than continue in these religious extreme’s and on certain gatekeeper issues, peddled by redneck allegories, as used by a certain woman.
If she meant what she said to Glen beck, the schock jock, that she hates violence and murder, then why is she the living embodiment/model for the NRA?
She is naive to say the least, if she has any thoughts on a political future its ought to be on the local newspaper chat column, she’s one mean woman.
Thanks for Somebody and Ruth, Mark your report of the Iran Contra affair missed a few bits about arms trade, Olly North an his drugs for money for weaspons to kill and then whats left to sell to the Iranians chapter… go tell Larry
n’mind. 🙂
Lets hope it does not snow anymore, in the worst cases, on estate roundabouts, we have to expect teenagers cuffed to railings until nearly frozen, a new Met.snowpolice undercover unit, their squads policy for stopping children snowballing cars at junctions, har har
Inspector shufflebottom said ‘we have now managed this policy so well that children coming out of the local primary school look up into the sky, they dare’nt look at the snow…. no more snow balling here, now that we have taken concisive actions.
Some walk into trees and lamp posts mind, a lotta dental work, BUT you have to take the rough with the tumble these days don’t ya?’
Ahh what a brave new world, I think I might just seed my leeks this afternoon.
@Larry. I’ll look into your points, though it’s not just the NYP* that maintains high levels of support (one of our papers did so some years ago, and suggested that support was highest in New York). That said, the strength of said support may be weak, certainly (there is a gulf between believing something and founding a party based on those beliefs). You’re right about the quality of the poll, which is why I asked about others. Know of any? (screwloosechange isn’t likely to be unbiased commentary, of course!)
Anyway, my thesis still stands: that conspiracy theory in general is rife in the US, and that it grows because the country hasn’t atoned for its recent and hidden imperial past. I am not conflating, say, the installation of Pinochet with 9/11, but I am saying that a government that has carried out many anti-democratic acts similar to installing Pinochet can expect to earn high levels of distrust amongst its populace.
If you are genuinely interested in compiling possible reasons for the recent shooting, I think you should remain open to this particular topic. I worry too that you seem to dismiss black ops as part and parcel of government behaviour, as if the destabilisation of foreign democracies is a good thing.
* I wasn’t aware of the NYP being a tabloid – but it’s a fair point. I cited it because the poll appeared to be an external one, and in any case they appeared to be reporting the item with gritted teeth!