Last night two masked men in military uniform shot dead a 27 year old man in his home in Sandnes, Norway. Nowhere in the mainstream media can I find anybody wondering whether this is related to the massacre in Norway the day before – even though both were killings with guns, (very rare in Norway), and either this guy really was assassinated by soldiers, or both were carried out in false uniform.
Have I turned into a crazed conspiracy theorist, or is this lack of curiosity a little bit strange?
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Can this second incident the same weekend in Norway of armed killers in uniforms relate in any way to the “two other cells” of which Breivik spoke in court? I am not claiming to know the answers, but there seem to me obvious questions here and I don’t understand why the media is not asking them.
”Only 3.2 per cent of Spain’s population was foreign-born in 1998. In 2007 it was 13.4 per cent.”
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Last time I visited my friends in Spain it seemed as if half the town was populated by Dutch, Germans, Brits, many with young kids. Oh, and I’m sure I saw some suspicious looking blond haired blue eyed types.
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”This is why it seems necessary to consider the possibility that Breivik is exactly what he says he is: a crusader fighting a Muslim takeover of Europe …”
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You must be kidding!
The alarmist figures you quote are wrong CanSpeccy and you ignore the fact that Muslims are only 6% of the European population and that their birth rate has been falling (as with most immigrant groups over the generations).
Even according to the (insanely right wing) Pew research center in the US the Muslim population in Europe increased from 29.6 million in 1990 to 41 million in 2010 – that’s not doubling, that’s not even a 50% increase.
http://pewforum.org/future-of-the-global-muslim-population-regional-europe.aspx
Europe’s non-Muslim population has been rising in the meantime, so as a percentage of population Muslims are only about 6%.
http://pewforum.org/future-of-the-global-muslim-population-regional-europe.aspx
The Pew report also found the Muslim birth rate in Europe has been falling and is projected to fall further.
http://pewforum.org/future-of-the-global-muslim-population-regional-europe.aspx
Apart from that the children and grandchildren of religious immigrants may become less religious as easily as becoming more religious or staying the same and the majority of Muslims in Europe are not fundamentalists.
The big threat is that we’ll get a double dip recession due to 1930s style austerity policies by governments and that will boost support for deluded ideologies like yours and the Norwegian guman’s.
I refer to your comment claiming that “it seems necessary to consider the possibility that Breivik is exactly what he says he is: a crusader fighting a Muslim takeover of Europe that will mean not only the extinction of Christianity in Europe but of the European peoples, whose only hope of posterity, according to Sarkozy, is to marry an immigrant.”
That is completely out of touch with reality and the fact that a large minority of Europeans believe it and blame anyone less right wing than them for it is considerably more worrying than Al Qa’ida, because the anti-“multiculturalism” extremists are much more numerous than the Islamic fundamentalists in Europe.
Juan Cole:
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”Breivik’s medieval romanticism, his artificial European nativism, his pan-Christian vision, his hierarchical, racist view of society, all belong to bits and pieces of past dark episodes in European history. It is as though he has picked through the trash heap of history and attempted to resurrect broken icons, toys and ruined weapons. ”
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http://www.juancole.com/2011/07/the-irrelevance-of-the-knights-in-a-global-society.html
We are told by the BBC that Breivik was motivated in part by the history of the Knights Templar. Graphics taken from his book are shown including an image of St George and his red cross.
{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar}
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Why then is the mumbo jumbo associated with the British Monarchy and perpetuated in the nonsense of the system of the Orders of St Michael and St George, the Order of the Garter and so on not swept away?
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The bestowing of these gongs and medals along with the silly costumes that the bearers wear keep the system of patronage and preferment alive. For instance the tax exile and Conservative Party funder Lord Ashcroft is a KCMG, Knight Commander of St Michael and St George. Totally ridiculous and outdated. We are a laughing stock.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders,_decorations,_and_medals_of_the_United_Kingdom
Craig,
” Have I turned into a crazed conspiracy theorist, or is this lack of curiosity a little bit strange?”
The phrase “conspiracy theory” is commonly used to deflect and debase otherwise sound analysis and questioning of suspicious events. If you suspect that there are gaps in the official version, or you discern that the duly declared conventional wisdom on the event is incomplete or logically incoherent – you are a potential “conspiracy theorist”. Maybe one day Craig – you will graduate from the lower school to realise your full potential.
Subject to correction, the following has come to mind:-
1. The attack was on a public holiday. Why would a person willing to kill a large number of young people not want to maximise the level of deaths by exploding the bomb or bombs on a day when many, many, more people would be at work in Osolo on a regular work day and be killed? (calculated containment – range of politcal impact – intended European or global impact).
2. If Brevik is so anti-Muslim – what logic is there in not going directly after the immigrant target – but instead – he opts for a home-grown set of young people who have some political views within a political party that you do not agree with? He, or his cell or group ( if it ultimately turns out that he was aided) at some stage made a decision between the ”political/Norweigan” as distinct from the ”immigrant/race/religion” target – and chose the former. The choice of target tells us much about the orginal source of the operation, not merely in Brevik’s mind, but relative to any associated cell or group. Not to say that ultimately I can find sanity in the mind of a man( or group) that engages in this kind of slaughter – just asking – with the hope that the full truth emerges. ( motive – modus operandi – links to actual or potential fellow operative terrorists).
3. It remains to be seen what the forensic results show about the bomb blasts. This kind of criminal investigative work is important. What type of explosives? The nature of the physical damage in revealing whether there was one bomb or more?What type of bomb, what type of explosives – where acquired – from whom acquired – purchased alone or with accompaniment by another – if so – who? Information as to whether there were any explosives witihin a building – was it one bomb outside the buildings – if within a building – how did he plant it undetected? What was the overall cost of his operation – and when a credible estimate is obtained – how and where from did he get the money to finance the operation? ( pysical evidence – deducted evidence to estalish single operative or reason to search for associates in the crime). Or –
4. Maybe, implidedly, as Juan Cole suggests:-
” The Crusade, he insisted, was necessary because in ten years Muslims would be a majority in most of Europe and they were raping Christian girls. The fear of brown men raping Norwegian women is of course the ultimate in iconic racism, redolent of Jim Crow in the Old South.”
The problem started in his penis and moved up to his brain – virility psychosis!( he had delusions that his dick would never be as effective as that of the immigrant men he despised most).
No conclusions being drawn by me yet – merely ”conspiring” with Craig to get to the truth.
Thanks Andy, that’s an excellent article.
Andy, Re: “You must be kidding!”
Why must I be kidding? You neglected to say.
Your inability to do math of Muslim demographics in Europe is not remedied by quoting from Juan Cole.
Mary – ” The bestowing of these gongs and medals along with the silly costumes that the bearers wear keep the system of patronage and preferment alive. For instance the tax exile and Conservative Party funder Lord Ashcroft is a KCMG, Knight Commander of St Michael and St George. Totally ridiculous and outdated. We are a laughing stock.”
It is a pecking order. An associate of Lord Ashcroft summed it up for me one day over a drink. He said about Ashcroft:-
” Michael is a barrow-boy who wants to be a spiv”.
Some people see themselves in their status ( or lack thereof) – accomplishments ( or lack thereof) – as being lesser beings – so they have to move up the hierarchical ladder as they perceive it. In Ashcroft’s case he has accumulated a mind-boggling amount of wealth and purchased prestige. In Brevik’s case he has elevated himself through mass murder to “Templar status”.
The inability of people like Andy and Mary to grasp that Breivik, whether a pawn in a psyop or a genuine crusader, has a real issue explains why that issue is not going away any time soon and why the risk of an indigenous anti-immigration insurrection or terrorist movement must be taken seriously.
” “European governments have tolerated the far right up until now.”
Uh huh.
EU statistics record 45 “left-wing” terrorist attacks last year and 0 “right-wing” terrorist attacks. But by all means don’t let this get in the way of your narrative…”
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the idea of left or right is dependant upon where one stands on the political spectrum.
do you know what the criteria is for defining left or right wing by europol?
Webster Tarpley has been mentioned a few times on the thread. It might be useful to put a little context into this.
A few weeks ago I was handed a publication (from about 1985). It came to me through a physician I know, and who I was giving a lift to, as she was temporarily without a car. She had been handed the book by a patient, who thought it was interesting, providing an analysis of the war strategy of the USSR in the mid-eighties. ( I was waiting for her to finish her work so she gave me the document for ‘entertainment’.
The book looked extremely ‘serious’- it was designed to look like an official intelligence analysis, and my first impression was that it was a government publication.
I started reading it and quickly developed the impression , admittedly with the advantage of hindsight, that it was written by some very odd people, who were offering the thesis that The USSR was on the point of launching a pre-emptive nuclear strike.
Their analysis could not have been more wrong. I was rather confused by trying to make sense of something that looked as if it should make sense, but clearly didn’t.
At one point it launched into a tirade against Henry Kissinger who, at the time, had been suggesting that the USSR was on the point of collapse. the thesis of the book was that the USSR were far ahead of the west in technology and economic power.
It was, not put too fine a point on it, paranoid nonsense. The language was also actually rather amateurish and on a more critical reading not really like the kind of semi-academic language likely in a publication of any credibility or substance, although at casual glance it may have seemed rather weighty. I became incredulous that such a thing could be the product of sane people but it had all the appearance of a very ‘serious’ report.
I then got on to Google and did some basic enquiries and discovered that the publication organisation was the front for an independent US politician who offered himself up for election at every opportunity but never actually had any support. (Maybe polling a fraction of what Ralph Nader polls. Can’t actually remember the details). Very marginal indeed.
It may be worth noting that Webster Tarpley was the lead author of the ‘report’.
Oh yes, and it might be worth noting that the doctor’s speciality was Psychiatry.
ah right – you’re using figures from Pew quoted in the Telegraph speccy – well the link i posted from Pew is more recent (January this year) than yours (2009) and shows an under 50% increase in Muslim population from 1990 to 2010. So either the Telegraph got the figures wrong or one or both of the Pew reports did. Either way Pew figures wouldn’t be reliable – and even if they were Muslims are not going to be a majority in Europe with only 6% of the population and a birth rate falling much faster than the European average plus secularisation of later generations.
Far more danger of extremist views like your own agreement with the ideology of a deluded mass murderer becoming too influential.
So what exactly are you trying to say about Breivik, CanSpeccy/Alfred? That there is some VALUE in what he did? WTF is a “genuine crusader” who sprays bullets all over an island full of young people?
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In case anyone is interested, ‘Snowmail’ is saying they’ll be showing an interview by Christopher Dickey with Dominique Strauss Kahn’s accuser on Channel 4 News, which starts at 7pm. In five minutes or so.
Mary, thanks for the link.
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Zionist supporter but against Bilderberg – seems confused to me. Then again most people are – confused, that is.
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Meanwhile, the various Orders, Guilds, Livery Companies are no anachronistic joke.
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Here’s a film called Is It Live or Is It Livery, that is thought provoking:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS0LQedWGb8
@ Canspeccy…”the possibility that Breivik is exactly what he says he is: a crusader fighting a Muslim takeover of Europe…” You are dangerous bigot, you should be found and drowned in zionist man milk.
“Why do you say, “as if that were a possibility”?
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The overall European fertility rate is 1.45 per woman, i.e. far below the replacement rate, the Muslim rate is said to be three times that. If that is correct, what Meleagrou-Hitchens has said is merely a short-range extrapolation.”
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lets put it this way in a very crude manner – 60 million non muslims produce at 1% gives us a figure of 600 000 and
2 million producing at 3% gives us 60 000
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so at what point does the muslim population of 2 million out breed and out number the 60 million?
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and a point beyond that what way has islam or muslims directly affected you. that is what cant you do now that you could before?
Dreolin – yes – that’s exactly what CanSpeccy is saying. He believes all the nonsense about how the 6% of the European population who are Muslims are going to take over and impose Sharia law on us.
CanSpeccy’s second post in this thread includes the claim that “This is why it seems necessary to consider the possibility that Breivik is exactly what he says he is: a crusader fighting a Muslim takeover of Europe that will mean not only the extinction of Christianity in Europe but of the European peoples”.
Yes, of course, this guy was shot by Norwegian soldiers. That’s why they were wearing masks and military uniforms. The masks to conceal their identity, and the military uniforms to let people know they were soldiers…. hang on, isn’t there something wrong there? Absolutely barking bonkers…
“This is why it seems necessary to consider the possibility that Breivik is exactly what he says he is: a crusader fighting a Muslim takeover of Europe that will mean not only the extinction of Christianity in Europe but of the European peoples”.
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the “extinction” of christianity has not needed any islamic or muslim intervention, we have managed to do that all by ourselves. when the state took the place of the church , gave the church the status of royalty and took for itself the power of God.
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european peoples cannot become extinct in scientific terms, they belong to the same race as any other peoples, all people belong to the same human species and the same one race. and if one looks at it in terms of ethnicities, well there are no distinct discrete ethnic populations in europe, there are gradations, a fuzziness of one to the other. that is there is no pure one people, or race , the nazis got their fascistic genetics all wrong.
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Andrew said: “you should be found and drowned”
Which makes Andrew sound very much like a homicidal maniac obsessed by vile imagery.
And while Dreoilin can believe whatever she wants, as she no doubt always does, she would be wise not to believe Duncan McFarlane’s warped interpretation of my view.
Answer my question, Alfred, you coward. Oh sorry, CanSpeccy you coward. I asked you, WTF is a “genuine crusader” who sprays bullets all over an island full of young people?
Wendy you are about right on the demise of Christendom. But you do not understand the meaning of the word “race,” which is a perfectly normal and valid biological term which is quite distinct from species.
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All members of a sexually reproducing species are capable (more or less) of breeding with any other member (of the opposite sex, obviously) of that species.
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A race is an interbreeding population with a distinct gene pool that is more or less separated from other races. The term race is applied in many contexts, including domestic crop species. Thus, for example, before the introduction of GM crops, farmers in Asia saved part of their crop as seed for the next year. Over time, as the result of natural or artificial selection, the population of wheat or rice or whatever in any area came to differ genetically from that in adjacent areas. The different populations are what are known as “land races”.
The same differentiation has occurred in the human species. The Russians are obviously different from the Chinese, who differ from the Australian aborigines, and within a geographical area such as Great Britain, people differ from one part of the country to another, and thus might for some purpose or other be considered differing in race.
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But what bigots like Andrew should understand (not that I expect him to, and not that I therefore expect him to apologize for his outrageous comment that seems to pass moderation here like a knife through butter) is that I have said nothing about my personal view on the actions of Breivik, which are undoubtedly monstrous.
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What I have talked about is the underlying reality that lib-lefties and mass immigration fanatics like Duncan McFarlane deny. One of those realities is that mass immigration is opposed by the great majority of the population in every European country. So immigration is an issue upon which the reality of European democracy rests. By forcing mass immigration is on the European peoples the elite are clearly intent on subverting democracy.
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In fact it seems most probable that the elite aim is to create one mongrel, deracinated race of helots, without national identity, religion or culture of any meaningful kind — merely the culture that arises as a biproduct of the commercial system.
David,
It is not me that says they were wearing masks and military uniforms, it is eye witnesses who were inside the house. It is reported in pretty well all the Norwegian media. I agree it is very peculiar indeed. Most likely explanation is that the military uniforms were fake, to explain the carrying of weapons or as part of some group fantasy.
Are you suggesting the incident did not happen?
When you’re finished wittering, Alfred/CanSpeccy, kindly answer my question.
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WTF is a “genuine crusader” who sprays bullets all over an island full of young people?
”Muslim demographics in Europe”
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I don’t know how anyone can predict there will be X number of Muslims at some future date, it’s ridiculous. And even if you could see into the future, so what, why should anyone give a damned?
Breivek… is… is a Knob. His political and philosophical ramblings would be riciculous, grotesque, and absurd; if they weren’t so dangerous. That such a little prick can feel proud of his noble act of ‘liberation’ makes one want to vomit.
The inflated ego, the vanity, the towering pride, the conceit… what a dickhead Breivik is… but then I’ve always thought this about Fascists.
It’s the romantic, nationalist, mythology, the emphasis on Blood and Soil, and the demonisation of a particular ethnic group, who are deemed to represent all that’s wrong with the world… well we’ve been down this particular, blood-sodden, filthy track in Europe before, and with disasterous consequences to follow, when Europe almost destroyed itself.
The rise of the Nationalist Socialist right in Scandinavia is a dirty little secret which the elites in Norway, Denmark, Sweden, and Finland choose to keep silent about, when in fact the spotlight should be turned on these countries, and the reasons for the rise of the extreme right examined and uncovered. Because, if the extreme nationalist right can achieve power and influence here, then who is safe?
Once the Islamophobic, nationalist right, become part of the mainstream, as they have done in Denmark, opposing them becomes highly problematic because by then they have become part of the character of the state, and therefore opposition means opposition to the ‘culture’ of the state, a state that has become infected and tainted by Islamophobia and nationalism.
I used to find Scaninavian ‘exceptionalism’ and romantic nationalism, rather quaint and even amusing, in condecending way; now I find it disturbing and frightening.
@Deepgerre the candidate your referring to is Lyndon LaRouche an ex Marxist (though national socialist might be more apt) who regards just about everything as a conspiracy.Im not sure larouche tarpley his sinister organisation(complete with SS style thugs) gets its money from but it certainly has an inordinately large presence.I can understand why people fall for it as the research can be good but its basically designed to fit LaRouches paranoid megalomaniac worldview.http://www.zcommunications.org/crackpots-the-left-and-jewish-banker-cabals-by-chip-berlet
Come on, Speccy-Alfred, you’re quick enough to snigger at the Irish from behind your monitor. Why can’t you answer a straight question about what you’ve already written? You do realise that being qualified in molecular genetics doesn’t disqualify you from being a racist, don’t you?
Below is some of what the supporters of Israel should know. I have read similar reports hundreds of times before. The solution to the issue of the Occupation of Palestine by Israel must be found. It is at the crux of what we have been discussing.
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26th July 2011
The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) says more than 80 percent of households in the impoverished Gaza Strip rely on food assistance.
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According to the UNRWA, the Israeli blockade has caused the residents of the enclave to become aid dependent, a Press TV correspondent reported.
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Charitable organizations like the Cooperation Without Borders Association provide food to the needy people in Gaza, the report added.
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“We are trying to help those in need. The livelihood of families that do not have income is very difficult. The international community did not help end the siege, so we do this with the help of kind people,” said Adel Rezeq of the Cooperation Without Borders Association.
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The Cooperation Without Borders Association, which is financed by some locals in the community, provides poor families including the disabled and sick people in Gaza with humanitarian aid.
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The Palestinian Information Centre – 24 July 2011
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GAZA, (PIC)– Israeli occupation forces (IOF) in armored vehicles raided the central Gaza Strip near Breij refugee camp on Sunday morning and bulldozed cultivated land lots, local sources said.
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They added that the IOF troops advanced 300 hundred meters east of Breij and leveled agricultural land amidst heavy shooting, but no casualties were reported. The IOF troops routinely raid Gaza border areas in a bid to impose a buffer zone, a thing rejected by the Palestinians.
The Israeli regime laid an economic siege on the Gaza Strip in June 2007 after the democratically-elected Hamas took over the administration of the enclave.
Israel denies some 1.5 million people in Gaza their basic rights, including the freedom of movement and their rights to appropriate living conditions, work, health and education.
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Both on the Australians for Palestine website. http://australiansforpalestine.com/
The perverse ‘logic’ employed by Breivik, that the mass-slaughter of members of one’s own ‘tribe’ would somehow act as a wake-up call to rest of the tribe, and alert them to the bigger threat posed by the powerful Muslim menace within, is a bizarre and dreadfully conceited fallacy. It would be grotesque, if so many young and innocent people hadn’t paid with their lives for this Knobheads fantasties.
What a fool this Breivik really is, Knight of the Templars… my arse! He’s a Dick.