There is an extremely important article here on Breivik’s funding, by Justin Raimondo.
It also makes plain that not only did Pamela Geller post a string of virulent anti Norwegian-Muslim articles on her website, not only did she travel to Norway to address a hate rally, not only did Brehvik post to her website and quote it as an influence. She actively supported and encouraged those planning to use terrorism.
This is an excerpt from an email she says she received and posted on her blog:
“I am running an email I received from an Atlas reader in Norway. It is devastating in its matter-of-factness.
“Well, yes, the situation is worsening. Stepping up from 29 000 immigrants every year, in 2007 we will be getting a total of 35 000 immigrants from somalia, iran, iraq and afghanistan. The nations capital is already 50% muslim, and they ALL go there after entering Norway. Adding the 1.2 births per woman per year from muslim women, there will be 300 000+ muslims out of the then 480 000 inhabitants of that city.
“Orders from Libya and Iran say that Oslo will be known as Medina at the latest in 2010, although I consider this a PR-stunt nevertheless it is their plan.
“From Israel the hordes clawing at the walls of Jerusalem proclaim cheerfully that next year there will be no more Israel, and I know Israel shrugs this off as do I, and will mount a strike during the summer against all of its enemies in the middle east. This will make the muslims worldwide go into a frenzy, attacking everyone around them.
“We are stockpiling and caching weapons, ammunition and equipment. This is going to happen fast.
As Raimondo says, Geller goes on to say that she is protecting the proto-terrorist’s identity so he won’t be arrested. We do not know how this wannabe terrorist in Norway relates to Breivik or his other “cells”. Geller may know but the police are not asking her.
There can be no doubt at all that, were Geller a Muslim, this amount of evidence and connection would have her in jail by now. Do not hold your breath.
‘OldMark’ trying to slip it in again (my emphasis): “There they encountered black skinned Australoids (probably very similar to the present day Andaman Islanders) who were no match for them militarily or *culturally*, and who were largely slaughtered en masse”
You’re a tryer, aren’t you?
By the way Evgueni: “feeling in control of one’s living environment is a primary pre-requisite to feeling happy with one’s life.”. I’d settle for not being bombed, these days, myself. Who the hell is in control of who becomes their neighbour, anyway? Who are these sad anals?
Old Mark:
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“Sounds like Phuket or Pattaya”
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Nope, those places definitely ain’t my scene. Never been to either.
“perhaps murderous nuts would not have found the negative public sentiment to feed on.” Evgueni.
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No. Murderous nuts will always find reasons for acting as murderous nuts and those, like allegedly Geller, Spencer, etc., who will fuel their fantasies and their actions.
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Slovakia: No Jews for 70 years. Jewish gravestones still get desecrated with Swastikas. Many Roma, who’ve been there for centuries and who have married inot the pop. but look visibly different, yet still widespread discrimination. Neither of these acts has anyhting to do with immigration. One of the worst insults there is to say “You’ve got Gypsy blood”.
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The Holocaust had nothing to do with immigration.
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It’s just an excuse for xenophobia. Now they’re trying to divert the focus of criticism. Apologia.
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It’s got nothing to do with political correctness. What we are talking about is useful diversionary activity for those warmongers; divide-and-rule and a tradition in Europe of systemic xenophobia. We are talking about taregtting one community – Muslim – that is the group all of the Fra Right agitators have in thir sights – they’re not too worried about the Poles, etc., the white immkigrants. In other words, same old, same old.
We all remember the contradictary group of countries banded together as a ‘coalition of the willing’ who supported, militarily or verbally, the 2003 invasion of Iraq and subsequent military presence in post-invasion Iraq. This ‘coalition of idiots’ was an attempt to provide legal strength to the strike in the absence of a new UNSC resolution but, within the framework of the ‘war on terror, a concept introduced by Israel after the 2001 terrorist attacks on American soil.
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Having erased Pakistan’s guardianship of Bin Laden and with Drone bases in Afghanistan and boots in Iraq, America has reshuffled the war room plotting table and gathered the required funding (after the necessary show of infighting) to strike Iran and in what will be called an endevour to moderate extremist Islam. Like the Iraq strike an attempt to arrogate Iran’s nuclear infrastructure requires world support. However another false-flag using Muslim patsies is too risky, too obvious and now lacks support from Pakistan’s ISI, essential to duplicate the successes of 9/11 and 7/7.
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A new approach I think takes advantage of the tie-up between fascists and far-right racists in Europe and senior Israeli politicians. I recognised this new propaganda angle when Israeli Deputy Minister Ayoob Kara broke bread with German/Swedish millionaire neo Patrik Brinkman just a few weeks before the mass murder of socialist youth by anti-Muslim racist, Anders Breivik.
Brinkmann, who is trying to establish a far-right anti-Islamic party in Germany claims he is not an anti-Semite, however his previous close contacts with the German neo-Nazi party (NPD) and his past membership in another neo-Nazi party raise questions regarding his ideology.
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Ha’aretz 29th July 2011 reminds us in an article named, ‘Unholy Alliances’ that Israeli right-wingers have applauded Breivik. Hatred of Islam is their main guiding principle and that also flows through the veins of Paul Ray, founder of EDL and millionaire funder Alan Lake. This extrordinary scheme to acheive concensus for a strike is known to the British intelligence services under pressure to watch, wait and do nothing. I suspect in the months ahead propaganda that Sharia law will creep into Europe will intensify in an attempt to create an anti-Islamic European front to justify attacking Iran or in EDL’s style, launch another crusade against a new-age Saladin.
Furthermore, Evgueni, your paragrapha, apart from coming across as (uncharacteristically) a little patronising, also seems to suggest that there is an equivalence b/w those of the Far Right who are basically racist and those who criticise them. Look, the debate about immigration has raged for 60 yars constantly in the media and on the streets in the UK and in other parts of Europe. It is not that it hasn’t had room for public discourse. Quite the opposite, It has usually been used as a smokescreen for unpopular govts to diver attention from their own failings and other policies an as a means of divide-and-rule.
Wayne:
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The point about Norwegian men protecting their lovely womenfolk from outside attention made me smile. I suspect many Norwegian men entertain quiet yearnings for dark sensual Spanish women. So it goes.
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I was startled by your suggestion that the Norwegian Labour Party “bought votes with immigrants so they cannot be removed”. How so? Do non-naturalized immigrants have the vote in Norway? Oslo may well be more “multi-cultural” than it was but that’s as likely to be a consequence of Norway’s large and growing significance as a global economic player. You’ll find that the capital cities of major countries are almost always pretty cosmopolitan. It usually becomes seen to be a good thing. It livens the place up a bit.
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Your suggestion that no-one in Europe can speak up against immigration for fear of being labelled a racist is a ridiculous argument. People voice concerns about immigration all the time, including the prime minister.
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Being labelled a racist or fascist is liable to happen whenever you get involved in political debates. Many on this blog for instance have been called “anti-semitic” for discussing Israel and its apologists in robust terms, but hey, who cares? It just comes with the territory.
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Speaking of Israel, I see there are big demonstrations in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem and elsewhere against the government. I wonder if Netanyahu will see this as a good time to strike Iran. Nothing like a good war to unite the country.
Suhayl: “No. Murderous nuts will always find reasons for acting as murderous nuts”
yep. A psycho is a psycho. Still doesn’t explain the sheer evil of people who prod and poke them with their nasty little sticks, though. I often wonder if the pinky prawn-like extremists are subliminally moved by the knowledge that they have, effectively, been cast out of the Garden of Eden; that adaptation to Northern climes has meant they can no longer lie on a beach and sip coconut milk and eat mangoes without factor 3000, and then only for a couple of weeks before they have to return to the lands of mist and drizzle. The Duc de La Rochfoucauld described jealousy as the most destructive of emotions?
Still, the vast majority of pinky prawny people have got over it, and often adapt quite well to warmer parts, rather quickly, if they allow themselves (Icelandic horses can entirely change their coats in the space of three years to cope with different temperatures). I suppose a very few people just enjoy their awful sense of inadequacy by playing on the fear of inadequacy of others. Often nothing an addict likes better than seeing someone else get addicted.
MJ: “I suspect many Norwegian men entertain quiet yearnings for dark sensual Spanish women”. A friend of mine from Sweden has just married a lovely woman from Brazil 🙂
Technicolour,
perhaps you do not realise the inevitable conclusion to your logic, or perhaps you prefer to ignore it because it is unpalatable. Your logic is authoritarian, because you impose a limit to what can be decided democratically. How people would vote today on immigration, given the build-up of negative feeling following decades of not being asked, is a moot point. Perhaps you imagine that full democracy differs from the castrated democracies of the NATO members in one respect only – who gets to vote on political issues. That is simplistic and incorrect – protracted public debates take place before ballot days and rules are enforced with regard to balanced media coverage and disclosure of sponsorship. Decisions that are arrived at in a full democracy are reversible by definition if the public sentiment is persuaded the other way in future. This has a calming effects on political discourse.
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That you cannot empathise with people who wish to feel that their opinions on immigration matter, is a weak argument indeed. People are different, many are not like you in one way or another – this does not make their preferences any more or less valid than yours.
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We do not need to engage in a hypothetical discussion btw. We can compare and contrast the track record of Switzerland where full democracy has been practiced at the state level for over 100 years, with the track record of the NATO ‘democracies’.
Techni:
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“I’m sorry, but I find an attempted parallel between cane toads and people somewhat stupid. Cane toads do not work, pay taxes, or send children to school and cannot speak up for themselves (though they have certainly been made to suffer).”
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I’m not comparing people to Cane toads, if I were, I would be calling myself a Cane toad. I’m just saying that ‘indigenous’ has a specific meaning when categorising biology. Australia has incredibly strict controls on the importation of non-indigenous plant and animal life. Protecting indigenous plants and animals is a big environmental concern in Australia, all greenies use the term as I do. No animal or plant indigenous or non-indigenous pays taxes or sends their kids to school that I’m aware of.
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Mary:
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I’m a big fan of Pilger, in fact it was some of his earlier books that really started my political interest. I agree with much of the article, but what the Australian left always fails to address is how completely smashed the Aboriginal culture has been and the effects of a limbo like existence they face. Isolated communities live in semi permanent residences which provide all the negative aspects of traditional and modern lifestyles and non of the positives of either. These communities are fundamentally broken and I haven’t really heard any credible solutions from either side of the political spectrum.
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To view Australia largely through the lens of the above issue greatly distorts Australian culture however. The shockingly sad reality is the Aboriginal population is so small and removed from the rest of the Australian population that it is not reflective of the average Australian experience. What the Aborigines have to deal with is not at all a similar experience to what any other minority ethnic group has to face. I would say the Aboriginal issue speaks more to the shocking past than it does to modern day Australia. Unfortunately when you destroy a peoples culture on every level, wipe out the majority of the population and steal their kids and land it takes more than 40 years to recover, especially when so isolated from the rest of the population.
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Not sure of the connection with Zionists?
Suhayl,
‘propaganda’ – please explain.
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No I do not think there is an equivalence between the Far Right and their critics on this blog. Where did you get this idea from? I dislike the motives of the Far Right, but find it hard to argue against their chosen method if they propose to achieve their aims by more genuine democracy (I think I have good reasons to believe that they will not succeed). I approve of the liberal intentions of the Far Right’s critics but you know that the road to hell is paved with them (good intentions). So it all depends on how these intentions are implemented – whether they would be rammed down my throat even if I disagreed. I had a taste of the results of an ideology that was based on some rather good intentions, and so I am rather sensitive when things are left unquestioned because they do not fit with someone’s system of beliefs.
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I don’t believe in this ‘you are either with us or against us’ stuff.
‘You’re a tryer, aren’t you?’ – absolutely Techie, as you’ve discovered.
‘I often wonder if the pinky prawn-like extremists are subliminally moved by the knowledge that they have, effectively, been cast out of the Garden of Eden; that adaptation to Northern climes has meant they can no longer lie on a beach and sip coconut milk and eat mangoes without factor 3000, and then only for a couple of weeks before they have to return to the lands of mist and drizzle. The Duc de La Rochfoucauld described jealousy as the most destructive of emotions?
Still, the vast majority of pinky prawny people have got over it, and often adapt quite well to warmer parts’
Are you, before holidaying in warmer climes, ‘pinkie-prawn’ yourself Techie ? The bit above which I’ve just excerpted certainly reeks of projection & self-hatred.
‘Ha’aretz 29th July 2011 reminds us in an article named, ‘Unholy Alliances’ that Israeli right-wingers have applauded Breivik.’
Mark G; yes, a ‘deadly alliance’- sad but true. Israel had Baruch Goldstein in 1994, whose MO & political trajectory was very similar to Breivik’s- although of course Goldstein did not survive after executing his own murderous assault. As a result his grave has become a rallying point for Israeli extremists.
‘Nope, those places definitely ain’t my scene.’
Agreed, Cheeba. The sun, sea & sex formula pioneered in places like Patong & Kuta beach is unfortunately getting more prevalent. Ko Chang in 2000 had only dirt roads & was paradise compared to when I visited again 4 years later, when a coast road encircled much of the island.
Evgueni: “Your logic is authoritarian, because you impose a limit to what can be decided democratically”
How on earth can you draw that conclusion? I have imposed no limit: instead I suggested that a dialogue, with facts, is often necessary to get at people’s real opinions after years of propaganda, instead of a question demanding ‘yes’ or ‘no’ in response. In what way is that ‘authoritarian’? In fact it seems to be what you’re saying here:
“protracted public debates take place before ballot days and rules are enforced with regard to balanced media coverage and disclosure of sponsorship.”
I’d say fine to that, being largely in favour of government by referenda – depending on who’s making the rules and enforcing them. Who do you suggest? You seem to feel that the Far Right might be genuine in their desire for what you see as genuine democracy – what makes you think this? Their scrupulousness when informing/dealing with the public, including its ‘minority’ groups?
It also depends on who is framing the question and what the question is. What do you suggest?
“That you cannot empathise with people who wish to feel that their opinions on immigration matter, is a weak argument indeed” – indeed, it is no argument at all. In fact, on the contrary, I sympathise greatly with people who have been systematically lied to (there is ‘genocide’ in Leicester; Oslo is ‘fifty percent’ Muslim) and whose fears have been systematically played on by an extremist press.
CheebaCow: yes, indeed, environmentalists are at great pains to protect the status quo. Here we have been ‘invaded’ by the evil French ladybird. It looks not very different to the normal British ladybird, it just smells of garlic and attacks our women…
‘OldMark’: I love pinky-prawn like people. Its the liars and extremists I don’t have time for.
Suhayl,
I found the latter part of your post where you mention holocaust, gypsies and jews in Slovakia, apologia rather cryptic. Perhaps, you are right and Breivik would still have happened even if Norway had an advanced form of democracy. However what I suggest is that if that were the case (Norway advanced democracy), there would have been far less of the feelings of frustration in the population, which would have resulted in fewer people looking to rationalise this frustration and arriving at right wing anti-immigration views. This surely could have had a moderating effect on someone like Breivik, you cannot say categorically that it couldn’t.
Evgueni, thanks. The word I used was ‘paragraph’, but I made a silly typo at the end of the word, so it appeared as ‘paragrapha’, which I think possibly you may have read as ‘propaganda’. Is that what you’re referring to?
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Sorry, I didn’t mean to come across negatively with you.
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Perhaps part of my response to these people who seem obessed with mitochondria and so on is because I’ve heard people banging on about the same things wrt different groups since around 1967, creating scapegoats, etc. in the UK, effective diversions, as I said, for ruling elites, a way to divide ordinary people, etc. and am aware of the rightwing media stirring it up accordingly.
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I would suggest that it is these ideologies that are rammed down our throats.
People like Geller and Spencer allegedly ave been feeding the media lies or distortions and then these lies and distortions are planted as permanent fixtures in public consciousness. These are the ideologies and the systems of which I am wary. It is their propaganda which is unremitting and which tends at any one time to be directed at a specific, easily-targettable minority group. I’m sad to say that it they who have the power and the unflinching ideology, an ideology which is, for various reasons, somewhat convenient to the ruling elites.
How, cryptic, Evgueni? I am saying that these examples would suggest that such attitudes are not necessarily linked in any way to matters of immigration. In what way is that cryptic?
I should say, perhaps, that I have relatives in Slovakia, who are fab; I wasn’t ‘getting at’ East Europeans in any way…
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Technicolour,
I am beginning to see where you are coming from, perhaps we have crossed wires. Let me explain something that I consider fundamental – the distinction between referendum and plebiscite.
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A Plebiscite is a popular vote on a single question or a collection of questions, the framing and timing of which is decided by the government in power. Sometimes the government will also decide whether the result will be binding. So, Plebiscite is the kind of ‘democratic’ tool that could be used by a Hitler to his advantage. Political elites can award themselves an appearance of legitimacy, but it adds little if anything to genuine democracy. I am fundamentally opposed to government by Plebiscite. Unfortunately in the UK the distinction between Referendum and Plebiscite is not made, mostly through ignorance of the facts.
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Referenda – there are several types, but they share one characteristic in common, namely those already in power do not decide on the question and how it is framed, cannot decide not to have the referendum, cannot delay it indefinitely. For example, accession to international treaties can be constitutionally required to be put to the vote. The same would apply to any revisions of the Constitution itself. Another kind of referendum is the legislative referendum – the people can challenge a newly passed law to be put to a referendum. But full democracy is not complete without the right of Initiative – a referendum that is initiated and framed by a qualified minority that puts it forward.
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So I see now that you are opposed to asking the people to vote on immigration in a plebiscitary way. So am I. I am in favour of direct democracy supplementing representative government in the same way that this has evolved in Switzerland. Improvements are possible there of course, but the fundamental principles are already established.
Suhayl,
apologies – yes I read propaganda where there was none!
Anybody ever considered that the darkness that befalls Scandinavian countries for at least six month/year, when many are afflicted by sad, could have something to do with their irrational fear of foreigners which do not conform to the same societal notions?
Cairo’s protesters have been ‘moved on’ again, their proteste is being whittled down, the tactic used everywhere.
wayne, its not all about pleasing stereotypes, or men for that matter.
islamophobia is also a result of a sheltered up bringing, lack of world view, not enough eductaion, or too much education of the ‘local’ kind, if we do not expose our kids to multicultural facts we must not be surprised if they reject the unknown in favour of what they have been brought up with.
So if Leicester is going through the motion and is educating its young, they should not have a problem, but, and I say this in aguided way, there has to be a reciproke educationary process as well. Children have to know the boundaries, learn to respect each other for what is to be their future lifes.
Thats why Ariel Sharon stopped the school programm teaching Palestinians and jewish kids together, he knew that it would lead to a more peacefull relaxed attitude in future and he could not bare it.
Techni:
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“yes, indeed, environmentalists are at great pains to protect the status quo. Here we have been ‘invaded’ by the evil French ladybird.”
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Are you arguing that some sensitive and unique ecosystems aren’t worth protecting from the negative effects of globalisation?
Suhayl,
I meant to say – I do not follow how these examples relate to my earlier argument. On reflection, yes, anti-Semitism, discrimination against gypsy and other minorities, these things may well be made worse by lack of democratic institutions. I am thinking specifically about Switzerland again, during WW2. I think the Swiss track record on minorities compares favourably with other European countries. In less democratic countries, the lack of opportunities to address the sources of inequity and privation could encourage scapegoating of minorities. Democracy is like a release valve, the more it is accessible, the less chance of violence and other types of unpleasantness. I think.
‘You’re a tryer, aren’t you?’ – absolutely Techie, as you’ve discovered.
Glad you agree, since as the term implies, you fail to achieve any success with it.
Evgueni: thanks; my only qualification/question would be about the ‘qualified minority’? and about the representative government: can’t remember when we had one!
Ingo: maybe! Would fit with the weirdness of the Nazi Aryan thing: all those blonde pale people being told they are superhuman, when expose them to an Indian summer or two and they would be toast (never mind that the term ‘Aryan’ is originally from that continent). Perhaps the increasing strength of sunlight/global warming (and increase in melanoma) is also fuelling extremist paranoia, if they are predisposed to think that way. Am happy to report that none of the pink prawny people I know and love are following…Though many of them are also quite hairy (I have suspected that the bizarre Northern aversion to hairy men is, again, some kind of refined jealousy stemming from the fact that they are warmer in our cold winters?)
CheebaCow: not sure how one could ‘protect’ against the French ladybird? And the UK is happily eating the crayfish which threatened its (mainly inedible) local fish now, after the initial panic. Otherwise, do I agree with razing the rainforest in order to give McDonald’s cows pasture: no, of course not!
There seems to be an assumption developing that the Scandinavian countries are more xenophobic than others. Is that actually so ? Is there evidence ?
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And, no, I don’t think Breivik counts, given the reports of the country’s reaction to it.
Technicolour,
that’s an easy one. A qualified minority is defined in the constitution as a fixed proportion of the electorate (something like 1-2% at national level is practical). I think it is important also that the people could launch an Initiative to revise the definition of qualified minority up or down, change other aspects of the procedure or indeed in principle even to scrap it (it will never happen!).
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Representation is a political myth anyway. Edmund Morgan traced the origins of this fiction in his “Inventing the People: Rise of Popular Sovereignty..” But you know what I mean, we elect ‘representatives’ who then sit in Parliament and ‘represent’ us 😉
Good point, dead person 🙂