There is an extremely important article here on Breivik’s funding, by Justin Raimondo.
It also makes plain that not only did Pamela Geller post a string of virulent anti Norwegian-Muslim articles on her website, not only did she travel to Norway to address a hate rally, not only did Brehvik post to her website and quote it as an influence. She actively supported and encouraged those planning to use terrorism.
This is an excerpt from an email she says she received and posted on her blog:
“I am running an email I received from an Atlas reader in Norway. It is devastating in its matter-of-factness.
“Well, yes, the situation is worsening. Stepping up from 29 000 immigrants every year, in 2007 we will be getting a total of 35 000 immigrants from somalia, iran, iraq and afghanistan. The nations capital is already 50% muslim, and they ALL go there after entering Norway. Adding the 1.2 births per woman per year from muslim women, there will be 300 000+ muslims out of the then 480 000 inhabitants of that city.
“Orders from Libya and Iran say that Oslo will be known as Medina at the latest in 2010, although I consider this a PR-stunt nevertheless it is their plan.
“From Israel the hordes clawing at the walls of Jerusalem proclaim cheerfully that next year there will be no more Israel, and I know Israel shrugs this off as do I, and will mount a strike during the summer against all of its enemies in the middle east. This will make the muslims worldwide go into a frenzy, attacking everyone around them.
“We are stockpiling and caching weapons, ammunition and equipment. This is going to happen fast.
As Raimondo says, Geller goes on to say that she is protecting the proto-terrorist’s identity so he won’t be arrested. We do not know how this wannabe terrorist in Norway relates to Breivik or his other “cells”. Geller may know but the police are not asking her.
There can be no doubt at all that, were Geller a Muslim, this amount of evidence and connection would have her in jail by now. Do not hold your breath.
Evgueni, yes, thanks. I think you’v a valid point wrt more democracy. You know far more about Switzerland than I, but does/did Switzerlnd not have some peculiar chauvinisms when it came/comes to matters national? One also would have to have safeguards built-in to avoid the ‘tyranny of the majority’.
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Cheeba Cow, the notion of stable ecosystems arose from people like South African leader, Jan Smuts, inventor of ‘holism’ as a term used in the environmental context. Smuts aligned this with his proto-apartheid idea of separate development, subordination of blacks, etc. So some aspects of the green movement arose from 1920s/30s very right-wing ideas of innate European/white superiority. The stable ecosystem idea has been disproven more recently. Nature actually thrives on chaos and chnaging ecosystems. This is not to say we should applaud the massive destruction of nature in the service of multinationals’ profits, etc., trees for beefnurgers, etc. But just to suggest an iota of caution and to point out the disturbing ‘race theory’ origin/ provenance of such concepts in modern times (I’m not talking about Jainism, Buddhism, etc.).
Suhayl,
when you say we have had our debate on immigration in the UK and Europe for 60 years, I do not entirely agree. This debate that we have had is not a very meaningful one because we cannot act on it, beyond voting for a broadly pro-immigration or an anti-immigration party. I have a feeling that the solution to the immigration controversy will not be in the form of a yes/no answer..
‘Look, the debate about immigration has raged for 60 yars constantly in the media and on the streets in the UK and in other parts of Europe. ‘
Up to a point, Lord Copper.For about 30 years in the UK, post the notorious ‘rivers of blood’ speech, there was a debate of sorts- built around the paradigm of immigrant victim/evil white racists. If you’d stepped outside of that paradigm, and suggested, say, in the wake of the 1985 riots (in which, remember, a policeman was hacked to death & a postmaster was incinerated in his home) that all in the multicultural garden wasn’t lovely, & that Enoch wasn’t all bad, you’d get pretty short shrift. If anything was ‘wrong’ it was all down to white racism/ that evil Thatcher woman etcetera etcetera. Remember what happened to Ray Honeyford, also in the mid 80s ?
That may be your idea of a ‘debate’ Suhayl, but it certainly ain’t mine.
De-Zionification Now
by Gilad Atzmon / August 1st, 2011
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It (immigration) was a politically motivated attempt by ministers to transform the fundamental make-up and identity of this country (Britain). It was done to destroy the right of the British people to live in a society defined by a common history, religion, law, language and traditions.
– Melanie Phillips, as quoted by mass murderer, Anders Breivik, in his manifesto
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Melanie Phillips, a Zionist and the author of Londonistan: How Britain is Creating a Terror State Within is not happy to be singled out by Andres Breivik in his 1500-page manuscript. Are they suggesting that “my writing provoked the mass murder of some 93 Norwegians?” she wonders righteously on her blog.
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I guess that Phillips knows the answer, as much as she knows how to play with words. But I will use this opportunity to reiterate it for her, and for the rest of us – there certainly is a clear and strong resemblance between Breivik’s views and Phillips’ writing. The most obvious and immediate comparison is that both oppose Islamic immigration and multiculturalism of course, but it goes much further in that both identify the enemy within the ‘left political circuit’.
/…http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/08/de-zionification-now/
What ‘immigration controversy’? Controversy over the wars which have caused forced displacement? No, most people are against them. Controversy over the fact that people should be allowed to travel and live and work freely, by choice? No, again, most people are for that idea. Controversy over the fact that governments and extremists lie, as many people here have pointed out, in order to try and set person against person, and skin colour against skin colour, and religion against religion?
As for ‘Old Mark’s’ idea of an argument; think everyone now knows what that is.
Replies to bothe Technicolour and MJ:
Let me take the arguments one by one: MJ argument about scandinavian men wanting women of other races. Look MJ, if Brazil or Phillippines or Thailand were countries in control of their economies, their populations and so on, then yes there would be a small diffusion of people of race into mid marriages and there would be a general tolerance to this as culture would only be erased at the edges, but that is not what is happening at all. These third world countries and members thereof use Human Rights to try to tell us that “we are all equal” but we are not. If you come from a third world country then you came either because your country has too many people (youth bulge theory) or no work or no health or no wealth or no human rights etc. Such people are not equal. They come to invade these more wealthy and organized countries and they weaken the culture.
The problem of immigration and so on has to do with people from an inferior culture coming to overwhelm people of a superior culture and therefore weakening that culture. It is a problem of entropy. Nobody is against small immigration that results when highly intelligent people inter marry others and move in response to some genuine requirement.
I am of the opinion that the financial crisis of 2008 was caused by the massive influx of latin americans into the United States. Brazilians, Argentinians, Colombians, Central Americans and the like are individually people just like you or I, but their culture which they were born with and grew up with is dangerous to an extreme. Dishonesty is something that creeps in very fast into a culture when you have massive immigration from such places. It is a fallacy to believe that such immigrants suddenly become more british than the british, that is not the case. Small thing such as trying to offer a sweet to the driving licence examiner; cutting the corners of the field when the coach asked the soccer team to run around the field, the cultural differences show in so many ways. The only systems that work are homogeneous in culture to the point of being patrician. Sure, many Far East countries exhibit corruption and dishonesty but there is something, something about their culture that makes them very successful. That something is then so easily eroded by immigrants.
Going back to the point made by MJ about race, please accept that some races are more beautiful than others. You make a counterpoint as if to say that if you do not have X colour in your population then you will fancy what you do not have. That is not the case. Look at history books, anthropology books, all written before the advent of the modern left wing immigrant rights led PC culture we live in now. Such books will say “vikings are easy on the eye” or “she was amongst the best looking women that Iceland ever produced”. There are races that for some reason are more beautiful than others. Take for other examples the Dutch race or the Czechs or eastern europeans and eastern germans, and other races such as in Colombia or the Koreans or the Han Chinese but there are also some very ugly races. Some fusions we got in this country when norman bred with saxon did lead to uglier people, and you see this when men from Eastern Europe come over to London and say “I have not seen a good looking girl during my entire stay”. I tell you this because we are talking plainly. Do not hide behind this argument of numbers and what is not similar or what we do not have is beautiful. It is a fraud and a con that you are playing on innocent people who have not travelled and who do not know. Of course all people have equal worth etc. I just did not like the way in which you tried to discount my logic in my first message with some leftist PC nonsense! please do not take this email offensively.
Thanks god it wasn’t the Italians Germans and British flocking to that immigrant nation in the 1920’s, what a relief.
Who do you think Wayne will do all the dirty jobs in America, those that have not been hived off into Mexico’s maquiladores, the domestic jobs, the garbage dispopsal, the farm jobs all over california etc., who is fit enough in that GM obese nation to do it without the influx of immigrants?
So who will have caused the next financial crisis, those who will be screaming for tax cuts, again and again, or is it the military industrial complex feeding on taxes like vultures on dead bodies? Who will default on the next 10.8 million mortgages? All those immigrants is it? Your argument does not fit Wayne.
“please accept that some races are more beautiful than others”
never.
Don’t know why you are bothering to reply to the bilge Ingo. You and your time are too precious to waste on it.
As Dalrymple/Daniels writes here, apropos the Honeyford affair (and as this thread amply demonstrates)-
‘Hell, it seems, hath no fury like a multiculturalist contradicted.’
http://www.city-journal.org/html/12_2_oh_to_be.html
what if there are only two real political groups? pro violence and anti violence?
I do not understand why you do not understand what I am saying, something which is not radical or abusive at all. Say you are having a drink with some latin americas in a bar and you comment how beautiful are the colombian girls, and one of them (perhaps some Peruvian in the room) will say “you see that the indians in that part of the world were a very beautiful race, that is why the colombian girls are so hot. Or you are with some other blokes again in latin america and you remark how ugly some women are in the town and he will say “you see that the Aztecs were a bunch of ugly indians”. The problem with you people is that you lead secluded lives of political correctness and feminism and such insular behaviour. You would consider such conversations in a bar between blokes as something offensive or racist. The point I was trying to put accross is that there is life beyond your little intellectual circle. What I am trying to tell you is to keep your dictatorship about what is right or wrong to say to yourselves instead of imposing your feminist and PC dogma on the rest of the population. You are wrong and you hold scientifically incorrect views.
Just today I saw a video of a police unit entering the East end of London and fining a bloke 20k for harbouring illegals in his pakistani restaurant. OK then the police went to the home of one of these workers because they wanted to check out his passport. So they leaned over some bag and it was covered in roaches. The policewoman jumped, they were living in what otherwise was a nice house or flat but they were living with a cockroach infestation and thought nothing of it.
Nobody has anything against controlled and small size selective immigration based on genuine motives or high education. There are parts of the world (in the american melting pot) say in Pasadena where you cannot see the colour of people or notic it because they are all so educated, speak as educated americans and do not harbour any racial prejudice or distinction. That is great but first of all: (a) we are not a melting pot in Europe nor do we need to be, and we are an overcrowded part of the world so we should reverse immigration when legally possible and stop it in its tracks today; (b) we should concentrate on high technology products as the Tiger economies of the Far East do. What for example was Denmark/Germany’s reply to cheap toys from China? It was Lego. There are very many cheap chinese toys but the kids still want lego.
The problem is YOU. You are some social science people. You cannot make anything you can just talk. You say “who is going to do the miserable jobs? overweight americans?” and I say “let the robots that our best and brightest make do that!”. Just take a trip to the Far East and see how they do it and how tightly they control immigration. If you went to those countries you would get no deference or respect for your elocuence and discourse. They would see you as the talkers that you are. However, if a lowly paid European scientist goes there, they throw the red carpet for him. That is the problem in a nutshell.
Yes you should bother replying to me, but perhaps I should not bother too much replying to you, so I reverse the argument you put.
Essentially the problem is this. People such as you have nothing to say! so for example, if you went to some engineering company, some leading technical university or some manufacturing industry and they gave you the floor to speak for half an hour, then what would you be able to say? Absolutely nothing. You would be as when Cameron criticized the Chinese a bit too strongly about human rights, because he has nothing at all else to say or to contribute but some humanities diatribe. I am sorry to be so offensive with you but I wish to shock you. So Breivik’s manifesto had some good ideas as well as bad ones. Why do you paint it all as bad? because what he said that is right does indeed threaten you. You want a society where the social scientist rather than the true producer and manufacturer, that good old sound red neck american with his common sense and somewhat bigotted views is in charge? You want to preserve yourselves as the elite. The elite of a bankrupt country. If none of us produce then we cannot get out of the debt, and to produce we need those good old fashioned people with their prejudice but with some humour, come on, even Johh Cleese complains that this country has gone way over PC and that before we had a light hearted racism. We have become incredibly extreme and I strongly suggest to you that instead of arguing about the rights and wrongs of some moral position, that you go back to school to learn to MAKE something. Dont be dumb consumers be intelligent producers instead. And it stands to reason that if our solution is to make nothing and to survive on tourism for example, then there is no way to avoid getting overrun by foreigners and by people who come here becuase we are a soft touch and can claim social benefits. That is something we certainly lead the world in. That, my friends, is the real reason for immigration to this continent, it has nothing whatever to do with the rights of people to move freely and settle to work anywhere. You twist everything and all!
Ingo, to my knowledge the 1920s crash was caused by a technical glitch in speculating on shares and a type of catastrophe effect as with piles of sand.
The 2008 crash was caused by plain and pure dishonesty, people forging information on forms concerning peoples’ salaries and so on.
In any event, it would be hard to compare the two situations exactly for we did not live in those times (1920s) and nobody is alive who can remember those times.
There is no doubt however, that the present recession was caused by dishonest things happening.
I will give you this. Regardless of culture we are all dishonest. If I let you cheat legally then you will probably do it. So I do concede your point to a large extent but please see mine.
Thanks mary, you are off course right, we should have expected that the apologists for outrageous, dare I say inhumane, counter communitarian behaviour and thinking would flock to this site like flies to the proverbial.
Where did Breivig get his 115.000 from? who assisted him in buying these guns?
yesterdays prayer meeting by the Grand master of the order of St. John sounded very much like an apologetic demand not to ‘look for scapegoats.
Yeah, because you never know what you might find. I hope that the victims parents are beginning to question the police, the links.
What happened to the chap who reported her to the police, has there been any action at all on this?
back to my sink, its slowly beginning to look like a petal.
I wouldn’t put it past this crowd to help anyone:
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“A former Blackwater employee … recently alleged in a sworn statement … that Erik Prince (founder and previous owner of Blackwater/Xe) “views himself as a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims and the Islamic faith from the globe,” and that Prince’s companies “encouraged and rewarded the destruction of Iraqi life.” Prince, the former employee charged, “intentionally deployed to Iraq certain men who shared his vision of Christian supremacy, knowing and wanting these men to take every available opportunity to murder Iraqis. Many of these men used call signs based on the Knights of the Templar, the warriors who fought the Crusades…. (CBS News, Why Is Obama Still Using Blackwater?)”
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http://noodleepoodlee.org/2011/07/31/if-it-walks-like-a-duck/
Wayne,
you started off asking the right questions, but now you have gone off on one, incoherently. You are trying to arrive at some truth with regard to immigration by reasoning it out. I hope you recognise that this is precisely what is done by people who wish to convince us that immigration is entirely a marvellous thing. Technicolour summed it up best – immigration IS. How we deal with it as a society will determine how heated the situation gets. If we do not allow people to engage in the debates and decisions about immigration, we will be arguing until we are blue in the face that our version of the truth is more true than our opponents’, and extremism will follow as night follows day. But there can be no such absolute truth with regard to immigration – it has to be a political settlement, nothing else will settle it.
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Btw yes the Swedish blond beauties often do prefer tanned brown-eyed Eastern Europeans to the fair northern men. I think, but I may have been just several times lucky! Anyway this stuff about some races being more beautiful, even if this subjective perception were true, what bearing does it have on immigration? Are we to stop people entering the country because they are ugly! Please don’t answer with a yes..
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I once spent three weeks in Taipei. At first I did not find the local girls very pleasing to the eye, but this changed pretty quickly. By the end of my stay I was seeing beautiful women everywhere – nothing else had shifted, only my perception. Same thing happened when I first arrived in London. I was that eastern European bloke who said that English women didn’t look as attractive as the girls back home. Now I am married to an English woman, and I see beautiful English women all around (though I will say that Ukrainian girls pay more attention to make-up and smart dress than the English girls). Anyway I digress.
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I agree that in general one can make a distinction between someone’s arguments and their conclusions. You may agree with some or all of the arguments but disagree with the conclusions. But this is categorically not the case with Breivik. I think you have dug yourself a hole with this one.
Just to end my contribution to this: WHAT IMMIGRATION CONTROVERSY? Suhayl is absolutely right. When the mad BNP bomber let off a nail bomb outside a gay pub in London, did anyone say ‘oh, we must have a conversation about gay people. We must ask the public what they think about gay people. maybe there are too many gay people. maybe this man was driven to do what he did because of gay people’? No they *****ing didn’t. This IMMIGRATION CONTROVERSY has been manufactured by deep dark racists all along; and to use Breitvik’s action as an excuse to make some kind of point about immigration is sick, quite sick.
Techicolour,
By controversy I mean disagreement. You can take a lot of the negative feeling out of a disagreement by agreeing to disagree. This is precisely what happens in a referendum. If the referendum is the result of a people’s initiative then first the collection of signatures would have taken place – this in itself generates interest in the media and gets people talking about the issues. Typically this process can take a year or more. Then there is time allocated for a national debate, the ‘yes’ and ‘no’ campaigns make their respective cases in the media (equal space allocation mandated by law) and also through an information pack that is delivered to all registered voters (this contains both sides’ arguments). Then there is the ballot, after which the losing side has no option but to recognise that it’s beat on the specific issue that was put to a vote. But that is not the end of story as quite often the debate and the ballot will precipitate some less drastic political action by the country’s parliament. The Swiss will say that they are a nation of satisfied losers. This is because the losers can say to themselves – we lost fair and square.
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Now, a Breivik or some other abominable creature would not be able to justify their violence by imagining themselves representative of a secret majority’s true wishes and interests. In a true democracy, first and foremost there is a peaceful and accessible way to address political controversy in the form of the right of Initiative.
Evgueni, I find your arguments for true, direct democracy very convincing.
http://www.spinwatch.org/-articles-by-category-mainmenu-8/317-islamophobia/5446-how-policy-exchange-and-the-centre-for-social-cohesion-encourage-the-cold-war-on-british-muslims
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How Policy Exchange and the Centre for Social Cohesion encourage The Cold War on British Muslims.
Spinwatch 2 August 2011
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The report, which was completed before the recent terrorist attacks in Norway, argues that right-wing think-tanks have understated the rise of Islamophobia on the far-right and in some cases condoned the rise of groups such as the English Defence League because of their own links to the ‘counterjihad movement’.
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{http://www.spinwatch.org/-articles-by-category-mainmenu-8/317-islamophobia/5318-the-neocons-the-bnp-and-the-islamophobia-network
The Neocons, the BNP and the Islamophobia} Network
Tom Griffin, 17 September 2009
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Events in London in recent weeks have highlighted the growing collusion between American neoconservatives and the European far right in stirring up hatred of Muslims.
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Richard Bartholomew has details of a meeting at the George Restaurant in east London in August attended by Jihad Watch’s Robert Spencer and Douglas Murray of the Centre for Social Cohesion at the invitation of the Christian Action Network. Also invited were the English Defence League, the group responsible for a number of recent violent anti-Muslim protests.
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You will probably recognise the name of Douglas Murray. He is given a lot of airtime by the BBC.
Mary – ah, you beat me to it! Good link. Definitely deeply relevant to this thread. The report is co-authored by the excellent Prof. David Miller of Starthclyde University, founder of Spinwatch.
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As Germany has done comprehensively in relation to the Holocaust, Europe needs to examine its own ‘underbelly’. The problem resides therein.
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Some of Wayne’s theories, for example, might best be summed-up as ‘Cockroachism’. You don’t like Pakistanis, Wayne? Do you associate Pakistanis with hordes of cockroaches, just as some leaders of Israel hjave associated Palstinians with cockroaches? Why not just say so? Here, it’s an open debate, no-one is stopping you from expressing your heartfelt views. Be honest. It’s better that way.
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Just about every major national politician since around 1968 has used ‘race relations’/immigration as a facile vote-catcher. The media has debated these subjects endlessly. Publications like the Daily Mail seem obsessed by them; it sells copy. We’ve heard of the incidents mentioned in detail by Old Mark (and their converse) again and again over the years; each incident itself becomes a totem, a weapon. Yet still, some of the commentators here moan that there hasn’t been enough debate about immigration/’race relations’, etc.
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There hasn’t been enough debate about the way in which the Far Right is used by elements of the ‘mainstream’ as an instrument of terroristic hegemonic control. That is where the nexus lies wrt Breivik et al. And that is precisely why these commentators from the Far Right are attempting to steer all discourse away from this area and back onto their hobby-horse. In this, they are abetting Breivik and fulfilling his agenda.
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I see precious little unqualified condemnation of Breivik’s act from the Far Right commentators. Indeed, one gets the impression that they can scarcely contain their glee. I see that Jean Marie Le Pen has calld it, “an accident”. rather like he thought the Holocaust was an accident. Others in the French NF have been found celebrating Breivik nd his mass murder. This aspect, whil shocking, is good, actually, because it displays what these people really are.
Uri Avnery on the anti-Semitism sweeping Europe:
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http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1311959069/
‘We’ve heard of the incidents mentioned in detail by Old Mark (and their converse) again and again over the years; each incident itself becomes a totem, a weapon.’
One of the incidents I mentioned was the incineration, at the hands of an Afro-Caribbean mob during the Handsworth riot of 1985, of the brothers Kassamali & Amirali Moledina.
Why do you think this double homicide, carried out by Afro Caribbeans in 1985 has, over the years, attracted a fraction of the column inches given to the later murders Stephen Lawrence & Anthony Walker, both carried out by whites ?
Whose totem ? Whose weapon ?
Well, that was my point, Old Mark.
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There are a number of reasons why som crims get more publicity than others, usually to do with the media and what they think will sell. The Madeline McCann case exemplifies this. PC Blacklock’s murder, in 1985, rightly got a lot of publicity, but as you say, other murders did not. The Lawrence murder revealed systemic issues in the police and that was the main reason it became a cause celebre. It is wrong when some crimes are foregrounded and others, not. These inequities make us all poorer.
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It’s not helped when people like Nick Griffin try shamelessly to capoitalise on them, eg. the horrendous murder of Kriss Donald in Glasgow in 2004. With incredible strength, Donald’s mother basically told Griffin to go back where he came from, she wasn’t interested in serving his agenda. The communities came together to help the family and to find the killers and have them tried and convicted.
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A South Asian pal of ours was raped and murdered by a youth who was white and another was murdered by a South Asian ‘friend’. There was no hysteria wrt either of these terrible murders and in general the Scottish media behaved in a responsible manner.
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You see, the Far Right 9iand some of their equivalents on the Fra Left) deliberately stoke up the tension because it serves their interests to do so.
“Yet still, some of the commentators here moan that there hasn’t been enough debate about immigration/’race relations’, etc.” – Suhayl
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Not sure if you mean me, moaning 🙂 Is there a misunderstanding perhaps. I call a media-sponsored debate (whatever sells most copies) a talking shop. It is I think an established fact in psychology that people are ready to express frivolous opinions when these are of no consequence – when they are not in a position of perceived responsibility. Conversely, with the weight of responsibility on their shoulders, the same people in the main prefer to reserve their judgement. I think this is sometimes referred to as ‘the jury effect’?
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The debate takes on a very different quality when the participants are required to make a decision at the end. Like when they vote in a referendum.
No, I wasn’t really meaning you, Evgueni. Like, Clark, in many ways I like your thoughts on referendums, direct democracy, Switzerland, etc.
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I think that what we ought to bear in mind is that on the ground, most people get on fine with one another in the UK. Not to say there aren’t problems consequent on economic policies of Thatcherism, etc. over 30+ years, there are, and there are issues of ghettoisation, systemic family breakdown, gangs, organised crime, etc. which in part are related to economics.
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Now, let me tell a story. It’s not an attempt at qualitative discourse, but just a human story, or maybe the plural, stories.
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I live in Glasgow, a great city, but one which has some of the worst ‘stats’ in western Europe, certainly in the UK. My immediate neighbours come from all over the world: Polish, German, Polish-German, French-Vietnamese-Polish-Scottish, Christian Pakistani, Muslim Pakistani, Iraqi, Irish-Iraqi, Scottish, English, African-Caribbean, Iranian, Russian, Greek Cypriot and so on. Things work fine here. Now, as I said earlier, it’s not that it’s all sweetness; two acquaintances were murdered in this area. But as a rule, people get on.
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There have been some problems, though b/w Pakistani youth and (the more recent arrivals) Romanian/Bulgarian Roma youth in Govanhill on the South Side. And fof course, there is the underlying nonsense of Catholic-Protestant sectarianism, which results in more violence (and recently, bombing threats) than most other intercommunal problems in the city. Rangers-Celtic football matches are not popular among law enforcement officers, and with good reason.
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The deprived areas, not too far away, have huge problems to do with all the usual inner city generational blights consequent largely, originally, on macroeconomic policies. Some of the most extreme differences in stats in the UK occur b/w the well-off areas (eg. Milngavie, Bearsden) and the adjacent poor areas (eg. Drumchapel, Possilpark); both the well-off and the poor areas in Glasgow are nearly wholly white, btw. The walls b/w Bearsden and Drumchapel are far, far higher than those b/w, white and brown or brown and brown or whatever anywhere in the city. You see, it’s mainly economics and the impact of economics that divides people. That is the prime mover. Sectarianism is a dangerous distraction.
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Now, a little story.
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In a middle-income, not quite suburban, mainly white area nearby, having worked hard and saved, one of my young relatives and his wife moved into a 1st floor maisonette. His wife, who also had worked and saved, now was expecting their first baby.
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When they moved in, most of the neighbours seemed fine, but one of their neighbours told my relative that he didn’t like immigrants (in those words). Nice, eh. My relative politely, quietly told him, “I’m sorry about that; we’ve just saved-up for this house and it make take us many years to move away.” My relatives kept themselves to themselves, and so on.
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One night, his wife now heavily-pregnant and with his mother staying to look after her, my relative was out at work, when suddenly the police arrived, banging hard on the door. When the women opened the door, a large squad of cops rushed into the house dressed in full gear. Now, you can imagine how terrifying that was. The police told them that they’d received a call saying that their flat was a centre of drug-deals, drug-pushing, etc. and that they were drug-dealers; naturally, they wouldn’t say who the call had come from.
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But the mother-in-law is fluent in English and is a Pushtun and so is afraid of neither man nor beast. She quietly managed to persuade the police that this had been a false call, that either they’d got the wrong address or else it had been a malicious call. The police, searching around (fortunately not pulling-up floorboards or ripping off wallpaper, etc.) quickly realised the situation and withdrew. Now, there’s no way of knowing, but one is highly suspicious wrt the possible source of that call.
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We’ll see whether the cops decide to prosecute whoever made it with wasting police time or whatever – though it may have been anonymous, from a disposable cell-phone, etc., who knows?
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Now, I’m sure we’ve all got stories up our sleeves. People can have all kinds of views and it takes all kinds to make world; not all neighbours are pleasant, some are ‘from Hell’, etc. But when people are influenced by the constant drums of hatred emanating from people like Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, Melanie Phillips, etc. and decide to take action, it becomes evident that (and I say it again) words have consequences on the ground for real people.
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Breivik may have been a extreme example of this process of hate and radicalisation. And he may have been used by forces of which we yet have little ken. Let’s see what emerges. I’d like to know more about those offshore financiers of the EDL, for a start. I’d like to know whether there are links b/w the EDL and MI5.
Evgueni: I didn’t mean you either – I think you’re using it to make a point about a genuinely empowering democracy, which as I say, I broadly agree with. Thanks for your explanations, too.