An extraordinary posting on Medialens by someone calling themself Plus Ultra, in which he/she/it claims I said a number of things I absolutely did not say. Either Plus Ultra is so stupid it faces imminent extinction, or this is a case of deliberate misconstruction. But to what end?
BEGINS
Murray’s reaction to the ‘rebel’ takeover of Tripoli is deplorable. He makes several undetermined and ‘wishful’ points:
1. That there has been not as much bloodshed as he previously thought there would be
2. That the NATO bombing – which is a blatant violation of 1973 – has been justified in achieving the aim of 1.
3. There is a great deal of support for the rebels – which is as yet unproven given that no elections have been held!
4. That the west’s attempt at getting rid of ‘a bad government’ is somehow ok
5. That NATO can proceed to attack Bahrain.
His Article:
Fall of Tripoli:
“It seems that Gadaffi’s regime has collapsed very quickly at the end. It is difficult to be sure as yet, but it seems there may have been mercifully less further bloodshed than might have been feared. Thank goodness the NATO bombing campaign will now end.
It is plain that there is a great deal of support from ordinary citizens of Tripoli for the rebellion. Whether that translates into specific support for the leadership of the Transitional National Council is quite a different question. Getting rid of a bad government is difficult, but not as difficult as establishing a good one. The next few weeks will be very interesting.
The mainstream news media will move on in a few days, as it has moved on from Egypt. Not all pro-democracy demonstrators arrested under Mubarak have yet been released under the new military government there. However it is good to see anti-Israeli demonstrations are allowed. That is a major advance on the Mubarak years. NATO may yet find it equally difficult to hijack the Libyan people to their agenda.
Now of course NATO are free to move on to oust the despotic, torturing regime of Bahrain. Or not.”
Pass me the bucket…
END QUOTE
It seems extraordinary I have to ask this, but if someone can explain my article to Plus Ultra in the comments, that would be good.
Just someone trying to irritate you and waste your time in my opinion.
Still awaiting registration approval from ML, but this is what is pending:
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Ultra – your summary here is mischievous or badly misunderstood.
Murray’s post – which you’ve quoted – quite clearly shows the OPPOSITE of every point you’ve tried to make against it. At least those that make sense, anyway – are you familiar with that blogs’ host, or anything about him?
You could be forgiven for some _very_ fast reading and severe misinterpreting, perhaps, if you’d been given a bad brief, even done honestly. But you come at it from the left, making Murray to be a whacked-out, far-right blood-thirtsy armchair general. Surely you’d have discovered that Murray was in fact the very opposite, before putting your name to such a ridiculous post?
–Previous Message–
: Murray’s reaction to the ‘rebel’ takeover of
: Tripoli is deplorable. He makes several
: undetermined and ‘wishful’ points:
:
: 1. That there has been not as much
: bloodshed as he previously thought there
: would be
: 2. That the NATO bombing – which is a
: blatant violation of 1973 – has been
: justified in achieving the aim of 1.
: 3. There is a great deal of support for the
: rebels – which is as yet unproven given that
: no elections have been held!
: 4. That the west’s attempt at getting rid
: of ‘a bad government’ is somehow ok
: 5. That NATO can proceed to attack Bahrain.
[…]
—-
On a side-note, anyone interested in the most recent Wikileaks cables?
Point 5, is correct, is it not? “Now of course NATO are free to move on to oust the despotic, torturing regime of Bahrain. Or not.” The “Or not” implying skepticism about motive, surely, not means.
Point 4, well you don’t say it is not OK, do you? It would be good if you would make your position explicit.
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Point 3, is correct, surely? “It is plain that there is a great deal of support from ordinary citizens of Tripoli for the rebellion”
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Point 2, unwarranted.
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Point 1, makes the unwarranted assumption that you were among those who feared greater bloodshed. But if you were not, then you might have enlightened readers by saying why such fears were unwarranted.
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So give the author 50%, surely.
Glenn:
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Have you heard about all the latest Wikileaks drama? Daniel Domscheit-Berg (the guy who split from WL in order to start Openleaks) stole 3,500 files from WL before leaving and has now destroyed them. Apparently the files included the complete US no-fly list, five gigabytes of Bank of America documents and detailed information about 20 neo-Nazi groups. WL is also claiming that DDB stole the WL submission system so they were unable to receive new leaks.
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For a while it seemed to be Wikileaks vs Openleaks, each group making statements condemning one another, with little verified it was hard to know which group was in the wrong or whether both were. Now Chaos Computer Club (founded in 1981, and one of the worlds most famous hacking organisations) has expelled DDB from thr group and has issued a statement harshly criticising DDB and Openleaks. CCC had 3 issues;
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1 – DDB tried to co-opt CCC into giving Openleaks their seal of approval (against CCC policy). CCC called it shameless.
2 – CCC had been mediating between DDB and Assange/WL for 11 months and has now given up after DDB was repeatedly dishonest.
3 – CCC flatly rejects DDB’s claims that WL is insecure.
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Not only has DDB betrayed WL, he has fucked all the people who took personal risks to leak the documents in the first place. That’s assuming that DDB has even deleted the files and not handed them over to other interested parties. Who would ever trust Openleaks now?
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More detailed info and full interview with CCC can be found here:
spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,780289,00.html
theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/wiki-war-3500-unpublished-leaks-destroyed-forever-as-assange-hits-out-20110822-1j5gw.html
wlcentral.org/node/2171
Think ‘fuckwit of the week’ is a bit strong – it’s only Wednesday and there’s time yet for title contenders to step up!
It may be a deliberate attempt at disinformation concerning you, Craig. Once something is on the web, it’s there, unless it’s taken down. I think perhaps you ought to consider issuing a request to them to remove their post; their post is really very inaccurate indeed, obverse the of what you wrote. This is unlikely to be a simple misunderstanding. Do you know who posted it? Are they willing to be ‘open’ about that? On the other hand, you can’t stop every operation from attempting to defame you. Maybe best not to get involved, not to feed inot their op.to post your view here, as you have done. It is a cyber-war, no question. Lies are central.
Why bother reading that crap anyway.
It’s plain to see that one comment of yours made an Israeli smart. And it’s very difficult to make an Israeli smart but you did it when you said “it’s good to see anti Israeli demonstrations are allowed” in respect of the Egyptian military government.No, no, no! It is not allowed for you to say this. It is against the Articles of Israeli Rule of the World. No wonder Plus Ultra is miffed. I mean, who cares what else you said? Hey Qark! You are so obvious. Your fake attempt at being reasonable doesn’t wash. I’m not buying hasbara today. Oh by the way, apparently Gaddafi was Israel’s good friend. From what I’ve read on other sites it’s a family thing but that’s just the internet, right?
AXIS (OF EVIL)
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> “It is plain that there is a great deal of support from ordinary citizens of Tripoli for the rebellion.” – C. Murray –
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What the hell are you smoking? This was a fascist USUK Empire enterprise from the beginning. The MSM coverage has been pure propaganda. We have _no_ idea of what is going on and certainly no idea of any support for the USUK Empire proxy force.
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Mahdi Nazemroaya reports from Tripoli and explains _exactly_ what was going on – a USUK Empire oil grab, complete with fake journos – CIA and MI6 – locating citizen roadblocks for NATO and having them bombed to hell at night. Very instructive. – ‘Mahdi Nazemroaya reports from Tripoli,’ August 22, 2011, Information Clearing House –
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– http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28915.htm
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Stephen Lendman says that polls report 85% plus support for Ghaddafi and rising with every Nato bomb dropped on the Libyans.
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For a man who showed commendable disgust at, and great personal courage in exposing British and US support for torture, and their War Criminal rendering of prisoners to Uzbekistan for torture, where Muslims are boiled to death, you appear to be having an extreme case of Nelson’s telescope problem. “I see no USUK fascism.”
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Well, if you put the bloody telescope to your good eye you might have some hope!
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Mind you, the following makes me think I must have got it wrong. I do hope so! –
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Afghanistan in one sentence, from Craig Murray – UK ambassador to Uzbekistan – “There are so many lies about Afghanistan; it’s about money; it’s about oil; it’s about drugs; it’s about the abuse of human rights; it’s about degradation; it’s about all of us paying through our taxes for wars that benefit a tiny clique.” – Craig Murray – UK/USA made use of Uzbek torture Pt2 –
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– http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MQoG5wfx5g#t=09m56s
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Tony Blair, Bush and Cheney – ‘Boiling for Britain / US’ – Muzafar Avazov –
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– http://jamblichus.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/boileddude.jpg
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NUREMBERG MK II
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Meanwhile the US (In)Justice Department is deaf, dumb and blind to the crimes of the US Neo-Con-Nazis’s of the last nine years. Crimes of US torture, murder, death squads, illegal war, crimes against humanity and crimes against the laws of war. US war criminals sleep easy in their beds. No change there, then!
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“The Neo-Cons, ER, Nazis, were careerists who instituted the industrial killing of millions in an effort to please Our Dear Leader, Comrade Cheney, ER, Hitler, and win promotion.” “You cannot just order the killing of hundreds of thousands of people. No normal person would do such a thing.” –
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– The original clip was utterly damning of the US Neo-Con Nazis. Naturally it was memory-holed and replaced by an entirely _newly-edited_ one!!! (Extraordinary attention to what seems to be a minor detail. Big Brother truly!) So supply your own soundtrack! Now deleted entirely, and for good reason, as per the above! –
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– US Bathwater / Neocon Nazis – just like this lovely fellow? – WW2 – Heydrich –
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– WW2 – Heydrich –
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– http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF1NXE55LBE#t=01m20s
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Poor USUK Neo-Cons – Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Gates, Our Tony, Cameron, Clegg, Harper, Howard, Rudd, Gilliard, Sarkozy, Berlusconi — Terrified of their date with destiny — A long drop on a short rope. – Nuremberg Mk II. –
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Mk I for comparison – Nuremberg Executions of N_zi Leaders for ‘Crimes Against Humanity’ and ‘Crimes Against the Laws of War.’ – Original –
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– http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=95d_1206462963
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EUROPE
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Where then is sane? Europe – A progressive land of milk and honey, where the crazy right wing is ‘Norwegian conservative guy’ @ 1.20. Excluding USUK-Neo-Con-Nazi-Quisling Breivik, naturally. From Michael Moore’s Sicko. –
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– http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svSUCbClg8E
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“Surely you can’t be serious?” you say? You _were_ awake for the last ten years we hope. In which case your mind had better be on ‘Permanent Suspicion Of Everybody. Except Yourself. And Sometimes You Wonder About Yourself.’ –
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“I am serious and don’t call me Shirley.” – Airplane –
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– http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo7qoonzTCE#t=00m08s
One has to laugh at the farcical inconsistency in BBC and Sky news reporting. It seems those opportunists taking advantage of the situation in Tripoli to loot whatever they can get their dirty maulers on are not criminal looters or rioters but “rebels” and are working for the future of Libya. In the past weeks, folks doing the same in English high-streets were described somewhat differently and now being treated to summary justice in the courts.
AXIS (OF USUK EVIL) – 2
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Achtung Stuka! ‘Our brave boys’ over North Africa. –
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– http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdBXApgTWz0
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‘Allies?’, OOPS, No. – ‘Axis Powers PLC – an Oil division (geddit?) of USUK Empire Murder-Illegal-War-‘n-Genocide-R’-USUK. (*) ; )
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It is an outrage to suggest that the Axis powers (**) are in any way engaged in a fascist war of Aggression — the supreme war crime for which they hanged the leaders of Germany and Japan after World War 2.
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No indeed.
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But as the newly formed ‘Axis Powers PLC’ — tm Rarl Kove — the leaders of the US, UK, France, Italy, Canada and Australia appear to be suffering from an uncomfortable feeling around the neck.
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(ER, Rope burns? Psychosomatic. Expecting a long drop on a short noose. Just a suggestion. Ed.)
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Today, under new Neo-Con neo-liberal management – Proprietors Obama, Clinton, Gates, Cameron, Clegg, Harper, Gilliard, Sarkozy, and Berlusconi.
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Any connection to the policies of the previous management of predecessor ‘Axis (of Evil) Inc’ is purely accidental. Previous proprietors – Cheney, Bush_the_Boy_Emperor, Rumsfeld, Gates, Our Tony, Howard, Rudd, Harper, Sarkozy and Berlusconi.
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(Some names bear uncanny resemblances to their predecessors).
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(*) Surely you can’t be serious? Ed.)
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“I am serious and don’t call me Shirley.” – Airplane –
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– http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo7qoonzTCE#t=00m08s
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(**) It was the fascist side — the Axis side — who started World War 2 with the supreme war crime – the crime of unprovoked Aggression against sovereign nations. For which the leaders were summarily hanged after World War 2 and a fair trial – at Nuremberg.
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Just like the USUK and their Neo-Con-satraps Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Gates, Our Tony, Cameron, Clegg, Harper, Howard, Rudd, Gilliard, Sarkozy and Berlusconi, notwithstanding the WW2 ‘Allies’ PR bull@#$$.
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Terrified of their date with destiny — A long drop on a short rope – Nuremberg Mk II? “Maybe not today and maybe not tomorrow. But soon, and for the rest of their lives.” With thanks to Rick – Casablanca –
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– Where are Victor Laszlo, Rick and Capitain Renault when we need them to drown out the fascists?
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– http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt1vQ81jNWw
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More north-African desert ‘Allies’ fairy-stories – “Look at that suprasternal notch!” – “How dare you mention my strings.” – The Toy Patient – @ 2.10 –
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– http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0KZa9ER9Bg
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The real Kristin Scott-Thomas as ‘Ein demon,’ and a cardinal with a very nasty case of skin disease. Could they add _more_ soft focus … (ER, Probably not – maxed out. And the German dubbing? Priceless. ; ) ) –
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– http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HtJlio6Mwk
@Suhayl Saadi
“Once something is on the web, it’s there, unless it’s taken down.”
Please please don’t every say or think that again 😉
Once it is on the web chances are it is ALWAYS there.
Removing the original post will not remove peoples copies, cached versions etc.
The nature of the web is a bit like Pandoras box, once opened it can never be shut.
I think the Streisand effect sums it up best.
@Craig
If you had never mentioned this I for one would never have seen it.
Perhaps ignoring it is the best route, how much publicity have you given them?
The liberation is all false reporting…
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=26155
War is capitalism with the gloves off
False Media Reports – ALL of the MSM reports!
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Stephen Lendman says that _all_ of the US MSM reports are outright fabrications!
– ‘West media reports on Libya false,’ August 23, 2011 – Press TV –
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– http://www.presstv.ir/detail/195413.html
“Germany’s unforgivable crime before the second world war, was her attempt to extricate her economic power from the world’s trading system and to create her own exchange mechanism which would deny world finance its opportunity to profit.”
Winston Churchill
The few countries left who do not have a Rothschild controlled central bank, Iran, Korea Libya, were also the countries referred to by Bush as the “axis of evil”
“FW of the Week” replied to a posting of mine on the Medialens Board (well worth signing up for the Media Alerts from the site by the way):
: Ah, I think you might have the wrong end of
: the stick there on a few points mate.
:
: The reference to Bahrain was tongue in cheek
: for example. He has been pointing out what
: hypocrites NATO are in previous posts.
Agreed. I am aware of Murray’s excellent reporting on human rights issues. Perhaps several steps over the line. In any event, I did find the following to be rather less tongue-and-cheek: “It is difficult to be sure as yet, but it seems there may have been mercifully less further bloodshed than might have been feared.”
For one thing, does anyone have an estimate of the casualties from Libya? Does anyone know just how many people have been killed, how much blood has been shed? I can’t quite see – presumably because of my own myopia – how this is in any way frivolous. Don’t get me wrong, I know that Murray is entirely against the rapacious acts of colonial agressors like the UK and the US. I know the great lengths he has gone in order to shine a spotlight on the inherent corruption of the UK government in particular (if only there were more like him!); but I do not find this statement to be jocular or even sarcastic. Again, I too am open to the charge of being myopic in this case. If you are a long follower of Murray, perhaps you are more aware of his writing style. I apologise if I have misinterpreted the original intention of the author – whatever that may have been.
p.s. From a brief reading of Murray’s website, I’d say I agree with him on a great many things. But this comment in particular stood out.
Perhaps my gest-o-meter ain’t up to scratch these days…
@Larry Lavin
That is why USA/UK love to destroy Iran, only thing keeping them out of Iran is that they know Iran has good defences, and Iranian no matter what kind of rubbish government they have, they will unite and fight them. But read this article regarding Iran’s economy, even truth twisting IMF had to admit Iran economically is in a better shape that the powers to be want us to believe.
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2011/08/17/u-s-sanctions-and-irans-economic-realities/
Yes, about the web, you’re right, Paul. Once it’s there, it’s there forever.
Dick – ‘Think ‘fuckwit of the week’ is a bit strong – it’s only Wednesday and there’s time yet for title contenders to step up!’
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Lamby! 🙂
A reply in moderate language.
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1314189150.html
@Fugazi
You cannot be the real Fugazi as I sit here wearing a t-shirt with the word Fugazi in big letters across the top 🙂
That must be me!
The response is simply that because of your stance on corruption, terrorism etc you are perceived as siding with ‘the left’, however as you have said many times you are a liberal (the non Clegg version). Part, I would say of the liberal tradition I learnt about in school but have yet to see (in action) in my lifetime. You are no socialist/marxist and that is probably what rankles them. I read the comment before I read you’re article and it is waaaaaaaaay off the mark as to your intent and is as bad as the MSM with no ability to recall anything beyond last week (like maybe reading Murder in Samarakand). With no understanding of your position they have made themselves look foolish indeed.
This is why the left will never achieve anything and the neocon experiment/subjugation continues unabated. Who needs the ‘right’ when the ‘left’ itself does more damage with point scoring and bickering. I recall Mark Steel is no longer a Marxist for the same reasons – pathetic infighting.
If there is ever to be any hope of clearing the miasma, left, right, liberal etc have to unite behind a common cause (freedom & democracy? 😉 ). Sounds impossible/improbable but when you speak to most people, regardless of political affiliation, there are core issues we agree on: loathing bankers, politicians, general respect for each other, even to some extent in regards to wars – we support the troops (I am generalising) but not the wars themselves.
I respect some MP’s regardless of political affiliation because of what they stand for (although the party whip does denigrate much respect I have). It’s a simple point, but if we start from what we have in common, rather than our differences, change is possible.
Simple example from a City Broker report on the riots “We conclude that the rioting reflects a deeply flawed economic and social ethos… recklessly borrowed consumption, the breakdown both of top-end accountability and of trust in institutions, and severe failings by governments over more than two decades.”
http://tinyurl.com/3rscfpf
So do we focus on what divides us or…..
Found this reply to Craig on MediaLens. By the same PU.
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My contention with Murray was based on what he wrote some days ago. He wrote that: “It is difficult to be sure as yet, but it seems there may have been mercifully less further bloodshed than might have been feared.” Personally I can’t quite grip the logic of this remark. To say that there ‘may have been mercifully less bloodshed’ – and correct me if I’m wrong here – is to say that NATO’s relentless campaign has been ‘more effective’ than previously thought. It is also to say that we have been spared further senseless loss of life – although we just don’t know when the NATO-rebel alliance will stop its infractions against the people of Libya. Moreover the line that begins ‘Thank goodness the NATO bombing will now end’ is surely wishful thinking? We both know that, as in Iraq and Afghanistan, this pillage of a sovereign state – which I know Murray disagrees with – might well continue for the next decade and beyond.
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Murray also makes the point that “there is a great deal of support from ordinary citizens of Tripoli for the rebellion.” I honestly can’t see how we can make this statement at this point. For one thing, the rebels in the East have been bankrolled from the beginning and have been able to build a mercenary force (trained no less under the supervision of the SAS and assorted alliance warmongers). If we work on the the assumption that the images beamed to us last night are a representative picture of ‘great support’ and not merely a collected gathering of ‘rebels’ parading under the fawning sponsorship of our beloved corporate media, then I think we are being over-presumptuous. It is simply impossible to gauge at this point how well this ‘revolution’ is being supported by the average Libyan. Time will tell, but at this stage we surely must remain ambivalent about such claims? Doing the opposite gives tacit support to the rebels in the east, making their campaign somehow laudable – even though Murray mentions that the Transitional Council might not have the full consent of the people. I know now that Murray does not mean to ‘praise’ the rebels or to back NATO – my god, that would be utterly ridiculous – but I thought this comment was very much under-determined.
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Presumably the following line is meant in gest: “Getting rid of a bad government is difficult, but not as difficult as establishing a good one.” On a first reading, however, without any great reading of Murray’s corpus on Libya, is seemed disconcerting. I recgonise now that this was meant in a tongue-and-cheek manner. This would be consistent given his other work on Libya. At the time – and rather hot-headed no less with the immense failure of the corporate media to report critically on what is happening in Libya – I made the ‘wrong’ assumption; for which I have apologised below.
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Finally, when Murray states that “NATO are free to move on to oust the despotic, torturing regime of Bahrain”, I understand that he is talking about the double-standards of the NATO campaign, and the west more generally, to ‘protect life’ – a statement included in resolution 1973. Knowing this, I think I have gone ‘too far’. Reading the article in isolation, however, and logically proceeding from statement 1, that there may be mercifully less bloodshed, to statement 2, that there is a great deal of support from the people of Libya (not just the rebels), to statement 3, that getting rid of a bad government is difficult, to statement 4, that NATO is free to liberate Bahrain, ‘seemed’ a sincere comment. I now realise that I was mistaken in this assertion.
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In sum, I stand by my criticism of Murray based on his comment about ‘mercifully lesss further bloodshed’ and on the grounds that ‘there is a deal of great support from ordinary citizens of Tripoli for the rebellion’. Having said that, points 4 and 5 of my original criticism are evident misinterpretations of his position – which should have been remedied by a deeper study of Murrays work on Libya (and this will be remedied very quickly indeed).
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Anyhow, I’m rather disheartened that Murray wants to use such strong language when deflecting criticism. Making someone the weekly (ahem) ‘####wit’ seems rather crass, even desparate. But I understand that it is born out of dismay that I have misinterpreted some of his remarks. After all, he is a tireless defender of human right in one form or another; and must feel annoyed when progressive voices call him into question. Of course, I am only ‘one voice’, and an insignificant one at that; moreover, I do not speak for the many great posters on this website. In fact, if you scroll down through the comments under by own, you will see that no one has concurred with it – making my own voice even more ‘insignificant’!
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_______________________
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“Either Plus Ultra is so stupid it faces imminent extinction, or this is a case of deliberate misconstruction.”
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Or perhaps some of what I have said merits constructive argument? Imminent extinction would surely be a form of censorship, and would stymie debate of any sort. The dismissive tone used here is rather ‘superior’ and domineering. If I am ‘stupid’ then simply pass over my remarks. Someone of Murray’s eminent calibre is easily able to do so. So why the interest? Perhaps because of the following statement: “or this is a case of deliberate misconstruction.” I must say, that is an utterly paranoid statement. Why would I wish to deliberarely miscontrue Murray’s statements? I have no reason to do so. In fact, looking at the slither of a comment he made on this issue, I’d say my own statement was, if anythhing, an honest miscontrual of some of his statements. Reading the article in isolation and coming to the conclusions above seems reasonable. Reading the article with constant emphasis to other articles written by Murray on this issue and ‘still’ reaching ‘all’ of the same conclusions, could well pass as ‘deliberate miscontruction’. I’m afraid I do not fall into this latter category.
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Perhaps in future Murray will engage comments – even miscontruals – with rather less venom and with a sense of reasonableness. School-yard name-calling is hardly the stuff of ex-ambassadors.
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Thanks again for flagging this issue, luke. It’s much better to have a debate about these things, that leaving them to fester in the rot of historical meanderings. Light is the best disinfectant!
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The followers of the cult of MediaLens are all busy trying to understand your personal problems now Craig. They cannot accept that they get called fuckwits because they are fuckwitted — preferring to believe that the person that labeled them has some form of disorder or agenda (mental, personal, political etc).
Check this link out for some illuminating history: http://dissident93.wordpress.com/medialens/
They’re more vicious and ugly-souled than a Guardian feminist 😉
@g33kThug – let me be the first to say that I am proud to support MediaLens. I share some of the moderate concerns about their approach, and they don’t get everything right (and I’ll say the same about Monbiot, who shares with them a symbiotic ability to irritate the other). It’s been a while since I read dissident93, but from vague memory, I seemed to get the impression that they’d be happy for Leftist critics of the liberal media to shut up shop entirely. Whatever MediaLens’ failings, I am persuaded that such a move would do more harm than good, since the corporatism of our “left” media would then barely be analysed at all. Except, of course, by establishment and reactionary interests, and there’s quite enough pressure of that kind in the corporate system already.
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I don’t spend much time on ML message boards, but I glanced through them yonks ago. From memory, there are a few people there who – in the vein of Amnesty members – write polite and well-considered critiques of mainstream journalism. I think that sort of thing should also be encouraged, and if takes the umbrella of MediaLens to facilitate this, so be it.
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I’ve never seen the name Plus Ultra on the boards, but I like his/her reply, which seems to be temperate and considered. Hardly the approach of a Stalinist cult member!
@G33KThug
Geez, someone has a chip on their shoulder… 🙂
Is G33gTHUG actually Robert Shone aka Dissident 93 ?
I think this is a bit of an over-reaction, Craig. I mean, really, why the bad language? Can’t you just face off criticism with some rational argument, instead? I’ve read the response by Plus Ultra and it seems both well meaning and honest. Calling someone a ‘fuckwit’ is very poor taste. Very poor taste indeed. I actually find myself agreeing with Plus Ultra’s first two points. I hope this doesn’t make me a fuckwit too… :0