I don’t think that I have seen anything like the widespread criminality sweeping England, in my lifetime. It may happen in LA or the Paris bainlieus, but not England. Watching it from the sanity of Scotland enhances the feeling of it happening somewhere I don’t know.
It is necessary to be plain about one thing. This is not, in any sense, a legitimate political protest. Nor is it a revolt of the deprived, homeless and starving. Few of those arrested are coming to the attention of the police for a first time. What is happening is that the burgeoning criminal underclass is realising that it is now large enough to defy society if it can concentrate its forces quickly in specific localities.
This is not a race issue. This is the social mileu from which Jade Goody, Amy Winehouse and Wayne Rooney (all of whom have had close associations with people imprisoned for violence) emerged just as much as it is gangs of Somalis and Nigerians – and it is indeed that too. It is a product of a contemptible urban sub-culture driven by a detestation of education and an avid materialism. That its devotees can argue that the corrupt bankers and politicians are morally no better is a perfectly valid point, but no justification.
They are not destroying the homes and livelihoods of politicians and bankers, but of ordinary decent people.
The policing does raise vital questions. The Met has 30,000 officers. Tonight it will have 16,000 out on the street, including reinforcement from elsewhere. Why on earth did it only have 6,000 out last night across the whole of London, when everyone knew what would happen? And why then did they simply watch looters? Senior officers had decreed that the “containment” tactics used to control political demonstrations should be used here. What arrant nonsense. You don’t just cordon off areas in which looters are allowed to loot.
There are root problems in society which have caused this, but the immediate cause is impunity. The criminally minded witnessed that they could loot what they wanted, while the police would merely stand and watch. As a result, more and more joined in and the situation has gone from bad to worse. One thing which has been under-reported is the amount of personal violence that has been used, with people mugged in the streets, cab and bus drivers attacked and people stoned as they ran from burning flats.
I have no problem at all with calling for the deployment of baton rounds, tear gas and water cannon. If nobody has been burnt to death so far, it is a miracle. If the odd looter gets killed by the police by accident by a baton round, I would view that as very sad but something they brought upon themselves. I would not bring in the army at the moment, but the force of society should be brought to bear by the immediate enlistment of any volunteer with no criminal record as a temporary special constable. They should look to enlist tens of thousands.
The resources of civilisation are not exhausted.
All of these data leaks and hacks the last few months are, for the most part, security service operations. That’s one thing I don’t doubt at all.
s/be euphemism.
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Reading that Hague, Cameron and Fox have claimed another 85 Libyan lives.
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Video: Bloody NATO Massacre Kills 85 Civilians Incl. Children (August 8-9, 2011) near Zlitan/Majer, Libya
Libya State TV
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m80335&hd=&size=1&l=e
+1 to JT and John Goss. Any suggestion that one or two of the rioters should `unfortunately die’ is a severe lurch to the right, and extremely illiberal. Whilst I have my differences with the institution of the police, individual officers seem to be doing a fairly good job, in the main – certainly here in Birmingham. I am not opposed to increasing numbers of arrests where criminality has been witnessed by officers, and I should think that might work well to attenuate the trouble in the short term.
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But if we are willing to acknowledge the limited opportunities and severe disenfranchisement of an enlarged underclass, and to assert that there is a connection between these things and the rioting, we should be arguing in favour of ‘the alternative’ that people have been campaigning, marching and demonstrating for these past years. That is, a society that reaches out to its most disadvantaged people, and helps them with as much free education and healthcare as they need, without any attendant judgementalism or condescension.
We all need to take a step back and forget about the detail and withdraw and take an objective view of the real picture of Our World.
As Craig says “The resources of civilisation are not exhausted.”
The World is NOT Poorer than it was last year, 10 years ago, or even 100 years ago.
We are NOT short of any Resources.
We have sufficient, food, energy and mineral resources – in fact we have so much mineral resources that we build and design e.g. cameras to fail after 18 months in order to maintain “the profitability” of companies producing them.
Its the economic and political system that is wrong.
Almost anything can be designed and built to last for far more than 10 times its current lifetime, but the economic system we currently operate under on, does not support this practice.
Our economic system is no longer fit for purpose. It is corrupt and virus ridden – like an ancient operating system.
Our entire culture is not sustainable and the KIDS have just shown us we are about to CRASH.
But there is no shortage of Wealth – or even Intelligence.
We Can Overcome all these Problems but only by being completely honest.
We have totally lost faith, because we know that everyone in authority is either completely stupid, corrupt or a blatantly Deceptive for personal gain.
We need to start telling the truth
We need to start caring about our fellow human beings wherever they live in the world and whatever the colour of their skin is and whatever god they believe in.
And we need to start Prosecuting The Most Blatant War Criminals, starting with the Politicians – because under Cross-Examination, they will Reveal The Real Criminals in Control at The Highest Level. This has to go straight to the Top of The Pyramid of Criminality.
Us Ordinary Adults Need To Assert Ourselves and Demand Justice, such that our Children Do Not Embarrass Us.
I am inspired by the ordinary people of London and Manchester getting out in the mornings to clean up this mess.
Tony
So now we find the mystery gun wasn’t fired and wasn’t even in the taxi cab when found !? Just how did it get there then? I wonder what the cab driver has to say about all of this. I doubt that we’re going to hear his version of events. When I heard that CO19 was responsible it told me all I needed to know as they were the ones who executed Jean Charles de Menezes.
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And all Cameron can go on about is putting the crims behind bars, strewth !
Reading this post, I had to make sure it was Craig Murray and not some Telegraph or Daily Mail journo. Myopic, deplorable rubbish. In tandem with Toryist demonization of all protesters and rioters so far, with heir baying for blood and calls for marshal law and water canons. I wonder what else Craig Murray’s barely concealed hatred for the ‘underclass’ (or should that be untermensch?) would have to offer us – dare he came out with it.
Jon, I couldn’t agree more with most of what you say. We need to reach out to the disadvantaged, the majority “enlarged underclass” (I’m not a Bolshevik) and protect others too (I am not a Menschevik). But I know a bit about the history of change.
If I was young and planning for the future I might consider an English restaurant in China. I know this would mean learning Mandarin (or one of the other many languages) but the truth is we are all in hock to China. In a way things have gone full circle. China gave us many commodities, paper, silk, gunpowder, to name but three. We owe them. I wish them well – providing they observe human rights. Craig should know a bit about China, since many of their commodities were introduced into the west via the silk road, through Samarkand.
‘This is not a race issue.’
A half truth at best; someone rather better acquainted than Craig with the realities of urban England also recognises there is a racial element to the latest disturbances-
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/katharinebirbalsingh/100099936/in-brixton-last-night-hooded-smiling-boys-hung-around-waiting-for-something-to-happen/
‘There are no quick fixes to this, it’s the end result of thirty years of ignoring inner city communities’
Inner city communities like North Peckham & Broadwater Farm have been lavished with public money for decades, a fact that anyone not living on Alpha Centauri, or not possessing a lobotomy scar, can learn with a few clicks of a mouse. These same inner city communities have however had the benefit of Scarman style policing for the last 30 years, the fruits of which were clearly visible over the past few nights.
‘It’s Jean Charles de Menezes all over again.’
Duggan was in possession of an illegal firearm when he was taken out, de Menezes,like Tomlinson, and Harry Stanley (taken out merely for carrying a chair leg)were not so equipped.
A Sad Jester,
You said, “half these rioters have never heard their drivel” which is correct and assumes the other half have heard. In the ‘other half’ are tribal leaders who listen, learn and organise through Twitter, Facebook groups and SMS. ‘Writeon’ is quite correct when he says, ‘..Cameron’s latest drivel, that a massive social explosion, is really and simply criminal activity, shows that he knows about as much about sociology as he does about economics, which is close to nothing…’
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I have a problem with using tear gas, batons and water canons on these kids, this is not Bahrain or Yemen and this is not Iraq or Afghanistan where children are killed every day by excessive force. We are not yet a police state like America; yet the move is clearly in that direction exposed by the increased interception of social sites, intercepted voice communications, increasing use of miniature drones with high definition cameras and escalating drawing of firearms.
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There are those who will say ‘bring it on’ just like the bent copper, Peter Power, on BBC News recently. It is to those I say, think carefully about the deception and lies from governments, their pressure groups and their intelligence services – so called leaders with false tongues and full pockets we have experienced in the last ten years.
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Even now I have intelligence knowledge that plans exist for an ‘event’ to divert attention from the tenth anniversary of the greatest lie this century. Powerful groups of scientists and qualified engineers are intent on what amounts to recovering, restoring and rebuilding faith in their expertise lost by an unscientific government body whose members were subverted and poisoned by their corrupt paying masters. Their time has now come, their atonement overdue. They are the demolition of future generations.
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These ‘gangs’ of young people are our children – do you want them to become slaves to a corrupt profit focused war-mongering machine? or do you want them to think, question and try to make the changes to a better, holistic life for their children?
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This I believe is the year of redemption and the power of intention to change rests with a few compared to the many. With very little effort you can join in.
Lucky police – they finally shot someone who might have had a gun.
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Is there more rioting tonight or less?
Guardian: “Use of plastic bullets authorised on British mainland as 16,000 officers flood capital”
The Police Complaints Commission’s provisional statement on Tuesday regarding the exact circumstances of Duggan’s death has prompted at least one commentator to say: ‘‘This, to me, suggests that his death was an execution .’
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Though for obvious reasons never mentioned, police training is designed to ensure, in effect, nothing less. Specialist firearms units such as CO19 have long operated a de facto shoot-to-kill policy, the logic being that anything less (i.e. a merely wounded target) needlessly endangers the lives of officers.
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This consideration is the key aspect of the Menezes killing & not infrequent similar such cases.
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A directly-related & further, rarely if ever mentioned, aspect of such operations is the use of dumdum (expanding) bullets & their devastating effect on the human body.
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The Hague Convention of 1899 prohibits their use in warfare. Their use remains legal, however, in hunting, for example, where it’s found desirable to stop an animal quickly; to ensure humane death of vermin . . . or in law enforcement.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanding_bullet
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Following documentary clip 1.20 mins in provides a graphic indication of likely physical circumstances seconds before Duggan’s death:
http://bit.ly/nePowD
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@ Craig,
Let’s get real:-
A. Trillions paid back to the “bangsters” ( taxpayers – the people’s money)
B. Cuts to punish the people after having repaid the “banksters”.
C. Riots as an expression of pent up resentment, frustration, upset, disaffection,allienation, disillusionment – or simply – don’t care let’s grab the TV, Trainers and Mobiles while we can attitude.
The riots are linked to loss of hope and the loss of a vision for a viable future. The people are doubtful about – the media – police – and authority itself.
Welcome to a rapidly changing world – brace yourselves!
I kind of realised that despite the mayhem, she was determined to travel up to Lancashire to see her Mum who was going through a personal Crisis because her Dad is having some kind of nervous breakdown or suddenly gone geriatric because of the drugs his doctors are giving him…
I was going to take her to the train station, as for 24 hours I was determined to stay home.
She said book the ticket – I am going.
So the credit card was there and she was due to travel very early in the morning.
I relented and said I will take you.
As we were leaving we saw the policeman’s bedroom – who lives across the road – with his curtains still drawn in the afternoon…
The fireman lives next door but one to him..
Both these guys went through one hell of a lot of shit the previous night…
As did many of our Friends who they were trying to protect…
Its easy to slag off the Police, but they are just ordinary people just like us…
Some of my Son’s friends (as some of mine did when I was younger) volunteer themselves to be Specials. They don’t even get paid. Typically they just help the main police deal with drunks on a saturday night.
Sure I know that some of them are ……..
But most Coppers are just trying to do a decent job..much the same as a Nurse.
PEOPLE GENARILISE TOO MUCH and highlight events that go completely wrong.
If you think you can do a better job – then volunteer and do it.
Tony
@ John,
” Last night I made this observation. Tonight I learn that of those caught looting one is a university under-graduate, another an armed forces recruit.”
Just my point John – they are all that I said above – doesnt’t that kind of background beg some rational explanation? Surely!
I have to ‘side’ with those that are pointing to Craig’s privileged background (which once supported a very dirty establishment, although his ‘conversion’ is of course wonderful) and his detachment from people who are now (if they weren’t before) permanently trapped in an underclass, where once enveloped, are despised by people who live in comfort. It reminds me of White occupiers of Australia who despise the indigenous people because they are a permanent reminder of the White Crime against those very people. I feel some wealthy people look down on poorer people because they remind them that their wealth was gained in a questionable manner and that people better can be better than than despite of (or maybe because of) having less money. Poor people give away more as a proportion of their income than wealthy people.
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What some, perhaps the majority, of looters are doing is wrong, but Craig’s solution smacks of mid-to-upper class war against those of lower class standing and is too much for comfort. Hardly ‘Liberal’ Craig.
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May I propose you spend some time living as they do Craig to give you insight into their plight, so tht you can feel their desperation?
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Deploy rubber bullets against the scum in Westminster and the Metropolitan police and the horrendous ‘royal’ family.
Am I wrong in thinking that so called “Liberalism” is something which is afforded?
Don’t worry folks the rioting will soon be stopped by a dose of the good old British summer weather. Those Primark hoodies are not waterproof.
How absolutely terrible.This was on medialens
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Don’t worry, the EDL are ‘protecting’ the streets!!
Posted by Anton on August 10, 2011, 5:30 am
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I’m trembling writing this. Where the f#ck is Antifa or someone?!
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“Someone posted this on Facebook “Just got back from Eltham with my man and zoey, Backing up the E.D.L lads. Watched some black guy get trampled on and battered by about 50 of them and then some dude got attacked by police dogs right in front of us, as well as a huge fight on the top deck of a bus between some chavs and police! It’s total madness out there but well chuffed the EDL are protecting the streets” Just wrong, this is the problem with these vigilante groups”
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/c9mnsq
”the force of society should be brought to bear by the immediate enlistment of any volunteer with no criminal record as a temporary special constable. ”
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It takes a couple of weeks for a Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) check.
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Really a nonsense idea. Sorry.
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Volunteer special constables sounds like something a mad Tory would come up with.
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I’m a very tolerant person but if one of these special constables tried to stop or question me I would tell them to get lost. Then what? Would they have the right to club me over the head?
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Watch out.There’s going to be a ConDem about! Just heard from the state broadcaster that the ConDems have an iniative to get leading politicians out on the streets to give out a strong message. This is presumably an example of Newton’s third law being put in practice – For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction – etc etc.
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Have just heard the Bishop of Manchester mouthing the most right wing rhetoric about the rioters. No love in the heart of this man of God and little understanding of the social problems. I remember him very well responding in a flirtatious way to Rebekah Brooks in a parliamentary committee when she said that she had heard that Bishops liked the Page Three feature in the Sun. Vile and disgusting creatures both.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_McCulloch#Bishop Note the membership of the Council of Christians and Jews. He is not a very good advert unless they hold to the eye for an eye mantra.
The EDL being the Eltham defense league? or is it the newly formed 350 strong Enfield defense league?
These vigilante groups spring up, led by hotheads and bullies, they do not think of cooperating their action’s and they walk around looking for trouble, they are no different to the looters.
That said if the residents of a street defend their homes and shops, that is un derstandable, I would do the same.
@ Courtenay
Unfortunately, rational people don’t always behave rationally. Peer -group pressure (like a drug) is strong medicine. If kids don’t take it they have to get themselves another quack (or pusher). There is no quick fix. Leading by example seems to be the way forward. But who can look up to politicians, bankers, stock-brokers, insurance brokers, lawyers, military leaders or the police? There is a wonderful quote from Mario Puzo’s “The Godfather” though I’m probably paraphrasing. “A lawyer with his brief-case can steal more than a hundred men with guns”. These are our exemplars – what chance society?
It’s early(ish) but how did I leave media moguls from my above list?
People making excuses for these retards really gets on my tits and is the main reason we are where we are. Do you really believe that even if we piled in a whole load of resources over the next 20 to 30 years it’s going to make any difference? The problem starts with parents not willing or being able to discipline their fxxx-witted offspring. Just ask any school teacher in a deprived area about the culture and attitude that a minority of black kids have; and they think they’re being super-cool!
They like to blame the third-rate resources they’ve been given, but this doesn’t appear to hinder immigrants from Nigeria, Asia or Turkey (plus plenty of other places), their kids WANT to learn and want to work at improving their families living standards. But what do the retards do; bully these kids incessantly and in a growing number of cases they think it’s a laugh murdering them.
Look at where we’re heading, it’s time to wake up and get real. We really have to start thinking about what kind of society we want and how we’re going to go about achieving it.
Never mind rubber bullets, it should be made perfectly clear that if you’re looting someone’s shop you stand a good chance of being shot by a real gun.
My main concern is that all this is going to make any kind uprising against the political establishment and banksters far more difficult.
Is Arthuritis some new disease I haven’t heard of? Take a look at this. http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m80335&hd=&size=1&l=e
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As the majority call the looters and rioters – thugs, opportunistic, criminal – they cannot see the greater evil in themselves or that they are condoning the violence being carried on by NATO in their name. Cameron, Hague, Fox et al and all their pals will make sure this film will not be shown on ZBC. One department store is worth a fraction of a tiny child but the population in this benighted country does not think like that.
This revolting ad keeps popping up on my BT e-mail home page. The APR of 34.9& must be of great interest to the unteruntermenschen in our BIG society.
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GRANITE
The card for people with poor credit
Easy to manage credit limit of up to £500
You could get a credit increase on your 4th statement*
Further increases possible every 4 months, up to £3,000*
Thousands of great discounts with granite rewards
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Apply Now Representative 34.9% APR (variable
~~~~
Granite is part of Northern Rock which we, the taxpayers, bailed out at the cost of £billions. A greater looting than the present ones?
https://www.granitecard.co.uk/default.aspx
Wikipedia
Granite (Northern Rock vehicle)
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Granite is a securitisation vehicle created by the British bank Northern Rock, based in Guernsey.
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The purpose of Granite is to parcel up the mortgages provided by the bank and sell the value to investors. Granite has a value of around £45 billion.[1]
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Northern Rock, advised by Credit Suisse, have decided to let Granite go into run-off, meaning that Northern Rock the bank will no longer supply it with fresh mortgages and bondholders will be repaid as old mortgages expire.[2]
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In plans made public on 8 December 2009 certain wholesale deposits are to be held by the renamed assets company, Northern Rock (Asset Management) plc, on behalf of Granite.[3]
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References
1.^ Aldrick, Philip; Griffiths, Katherine (2008-02-20). “The state of Northern Rock: anything but usual”. London: The Daily Telegraph. Retrieved 2008-02-22.
2.^ “Northern Rock calls it a day on Granite vehicle”. The Financial Times. 2008-11-21. Retrieved 2008-11-22.
3.^ “Government guarantee arrangements for Northern Rock plc” (PDF). HM Treasury. 2009-12-08. Retrieved 2009-12-09.
@ Mary, not a new disease but an old band of the late seventies.
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See there you go making excuses for the retards as that’s what they are.
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It’s a matter of right and wrong. The retards are wrong in rioting and looting, there’s no excuse it’s simply wrong. When you say ‘et al’ I hope you’re including pretty much the whole of the Labour party in this? Yes war is wrong and I believe that in their hearts most of the UK population would agree that it’s wrong.
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Our political establishment(and this includes most parties) is wrong and is all about greed and keeping the masses in their place. But what are we prepared to do about it?
Shoot a load of them…see what happens then.. Fucking scum.
Frazer ”Shoot a load of them…see what happens then.. Fucking scum.”
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I would say give the bankers a fair trial before shooting them.