I am not going to post much yet on events in North London, because I do not understand them. I have a strong urge to sympathise with those rioting as an oppressed underclass, but am well aware that they come from an urban sub-culture which I despise in virtually every aspect, and has no connection to working class tradition or ethics. Nor does this seem genuinely to relate to an embattled ethnic community feeling it is defending itself, as in Broadwater Farm or Bristol. You have to look back to events like the Gordon Riots to find parallels that seem to make any sense. The arson and looting is not justified, full stop.
On the other hand, it is impossible not to note that some of the key looting targets – Aldi, Lidl, JJB sports – are themselves emblematic of our deep, dark social divide. They are places Boris Johnson and David Cameron and most of the aspirant middle classes would not be seen dead in. That the looters come from a deeply ignorant, viciously materialistic, educationless sub-culture that ought to be despised, does not mean that the individuals themselves could never have been different, given opportunities they did not have. It is not to sympathise with the actions of the vicious, to ask how we created them in such numbers.
That police kill people too readily and with too much impunity is undoubtedly true. But that is only the spark. The existence of the gunpowder is the real problem. The existence of a society in which the gulf between rich and poor grows ever wider, and there is never even the remotest prospect of socially productive labour for a great many, was always likely to have these results.
These riots are not an isolated phenomenon; but together with the excesses of the banks and the collapse of public services, are all part of a much wider malaise as the capitalist engine has stalled in a vast mesh of corruption and croneyism.
Add to that how many of these young people feel such animosity towards the police. I teach in a ‘nice’ CofE secondary school, and I’ve tried asking classes of 14-15 year olds how many of them have been stopped & searched by the police – and it’s almost all the boys within any particular class. That makes them angry, and it makes me angry too. These are on the whole decent kids, and they feel victimised. The response this weekend is definitely not justified by any of that, but it does go part of the way to explaining where so much of their aggression comes from.
The oppressed around the world are rioting, the police which is riddled with corruption have killed someone they claim by mistake. Anyone remember the story where two detectives were caught on camera collecting a £50,000 debt on behalf of a drug dealer? If these people are educationless materialistic then who made them that way? Who are their role models? premiership footballers/rapists. Perhaps the rioters suspected that those shops contained Weapons of mass destruction and entered in a pre-emptive attempt to stop the threat?
A fair assessment, Craig, for someone who started out not to judge. But your appraisal is spot on from where I am looking (far from London).
This I came across
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6466430.ece
Is it true?
Diane Abbott is apeaking of the looters. She is being deliberately obtuse when she says she doesn’t understand why the police allowed it to go on for so long. Of course they did. It fits the ConDems’ agenda.
.
She thinks the worst effects will be on those who looted. They will have a criminal record and they won’t be allowed to enter America. I would think that was a plus.
.
The killing of Mark Duggan has some similarities to that of Jean Charles. We shall see what Ms Rachel Cerfontyne, commissioner with the highly esteemed NOT Independent Police Complaints Commission which is investigating Mr Duggan’s death comes up with. She said yesterday that ‘the 29-year-old had not been “assassinated in an execution style” and that there was “misinformation” about the death on Thursday.
.
“The distress that Mr Duggan’s family are in the midst of is understandable, but the violence and disorder we have witnessed over the last 24 hours can never be acceptable,” she added.’
.
How has she been able to make that statement so quickly?
.
Diane Abbott Wikipedia
Controversy
.
The education of Abbott’s son
.
The decision in 2003 to send her son to the private City of London School, which she herself described as “indefensible” and “intellectually incoherent”, caused controversy and criticism.[26][27][28][29] This issue was discussed in the media during Abbott’s 2010 bid to become leader of the Labour Party and Andrew Neil questioned her on the issue on This Week.[30]
.
Her son became involved, contacting a radio phone-in to say that his mother was only following his own wishes: “She’s not a hypocrite, she just put what I wanted first,” he told LBC. He added that he had wanted to go private rather than attend a local state school in Ms Abbott’s Hackney constituency. [31]
.
Failure to declare earnings
.
In 2004, following a complaint made by Andrew Rosindell MP, Abbott was investigated by the Committee on Standards and Privileges regarding payment she had received from the BBC. They found she had failed to declare earnings of £17,300 on the Register of Members’ Interests which had been received for appearances on the television programme This Week. The Committee upheld the complaint and required Abbott to apologise to the House.[32]
.
Doing nicely thank you.
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/diane_abbott/hackney_north_and_stoke_newington#register
Who spoke these words and when.
At an educational conference not long ago, one head teacher spoke about ‘the seemingly planned intention of eroding all forces of authority’, while another said ‘we know that the enemies of law and order would love to see the schools brought down, as far as their moral influence and prestige are concerned’. What those head teachers were describing is what millions of people believe they are watching, helpless and not so much unregarded as positively derided: the deliberate dismantling of the frontiers of decency, morality and respect, with a view to producing far-reaching and indeterminate alterations in society itself. They do not believe that these and other phenomena, such as the spread of drugs or the undermining of the universities, are simply reflections of a change taking place spontaneously and generally. They believe that intention is at work, and that it is the intention of a small and elusive but powerful minority. What they do not understand is that they, the majority, seem to find themselves without voice or representation in the face of a prospect which appals them.
@Mary did Abbott pay tax on those earnings?
The arson and looting is not justified, full stop.
.
Too right. Look at this aptly named “twitpic” of a guy posing with the stuff he nicked:
.
http://twitpic.com/62m6nx
Mary: She thinks the worst effects will be on those who looted. They will have a criminal record and they won’t be allowed to enter America. I would think that was a plus.
.
Mary, having a criminal record is not a plus. And while prejudice may gull you into thinking that being banned from going to the US is a plus, there are plenty of those such as Tariq Ramadan who beg to differ. And exactly how does allowing looting and rioting go on help the ConDem agenda? Don’t you think that plenty of ConDems are going to be perceived as incompetent?
http://globalciviliansforpeace.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/harlem-millions.jpg?w=400&h=517
“These riots are not an isolated phenomenon; but together with the excesses of the banks and the collapse of public services, are all part of a much wider malaise as the capitalist engine has stalled in a vast mesh of corruption and croneyism.”
.
Bollocks Mr Murray; it wasn’t ‘croneyism’, or capitalism, that taught these people in the schools; it was the Marxist-Feminists, whose agenda was to destroy the culture of Britain.
.
@ Larry Levin, The ‘elusive but powerful minority’ would probably be the Fabian society, that effectively controls the unions that dominate the public sector ‘services’; plus their influence in the mass media, such as the BBC.
“I’ve tried asking classes of 14-15 year olds how many of them have been stopped & searched by the police – and it’s almost all the boys within any particular class”
.
Amanda O’Dell: that is truly shocking. Would I be right in thinking that your school is in a large city and the pupils predominantly black?
The plus was obviously not to be allowed into Yankeeland Angry.
.
Looking at the main register of interests for Diane Abbott, the list of freebies, thousands and thousands of £s for speaking and writing, paid trips to the Caribbean, etc is staggering.
.
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/regmem/?p=10001
.
She looks greedy too.
Mary wrote: “How has she been able to make that statement so quickly?”
.
Superb question.
There has still been no inquest held into the police murder of Azelle Rodney, who was shot 6 times in North London on 30 April 2005.
.
An inquiry under the toothless Inquiries Act 2005 has been announced, which will be chaired by retired High Court judge, Christopher Holland, however, as happened with the July 7 inquests, the actual start date appears to be very movable…
.
When no proper investigation/justice is accorded to such deaths in the community, people get very annoyed.
Mary: The plus was obviously not to be allowed into Yankeeland Angry
.
I addressed that too and suggested it came from prejudice. You’ve confirmed it.
.
She looks greedy too.
Dianne Abbott looks greedy? Are you an amateur phrenologist too?
Off topic but a second helicopter has ‘crashed’ in Afghanistan killing 32 US military. The Taliban have obviously got hold of some of these http://world.guns.ru/grenade/rus/rpg-27-e.html
‘2nd crash kills 33 US Afghan force’
Mon Aug 8, 2011 7:21AM GMT
.
The Taliban claim 33 US soliders have been killed in a second helicopter crash in eatern Afghanitan. (file photo)
A second helicopter belonging to the US-led NATO coalition has crashed in Paktia Province in eastern Afghanistan, killing 33 US forces on board.
Taliban Spokesman Zabihullah Mojahid claimed responsibility for the crash, which occured in Zarmat city on Monday, saying 33 American troops were killed in the downing, a Press TV correspondent reported on Monday.
Separately, another NATO chopper made a hard landing in the same area in eastern Paktia province late Sunday, Afghan witnesses and officials told Press TV.
The US-led NATO forces have cordoned off the scene of the incident, witnesses said.
The incident has reportedly left some casualties, but there are no words yet on the exact number of the killed or injured.
The main cause of the incident is not clear yet.
Meanwhile, the US-led alliance issued a statement and confirmed that the helicopter made an emergency landing. The statement said no one was injured and that it has launched an investigation into the incident.
The incident came in the wake of a similar incident on Saturday, which claimed lives of 31 US forces.
Taliban claimed responsibility for Saturday helicopter crash, but NATO said it has started an investigation into the incident.
AO/MB/HRF
Mary,
I have been waiting to see if that report gets confirmed by a more reliable source than Press TV, who seem to have the original
Quite so Craig.
.
The Guardian have updated their article which I posted last night. It includes a timeline.
.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/07/police-attack-london-burns
.
Back to the hedge cutting. Better use of my time than replying to Angry.
The youth of Britain make me proud this weekend, unlike the pathetic adults, who do nothing but mock their own servitude.
LondonBurning
Not quite sure why stealing adidas trousers and laptops would make anyone proud, I really am not.
Angrysoba is a busy little bee. Sending all Craig’s links to DAaronovitch.
http://twitter.com/#!/angrysoba
That’s an inflammatory statement, LondonBurning. You might like to put out your angst with a pint of London Pride rather than being proud of wanton vandalism and life-threatening riots. Yes, tensions are high, and the truth about what actually happened with the police killing yet needs to be discovered. We had riots in Birmingham which were gang-related and only resolved by communities getting together to air their grievances. I’m not apologising for being with the pathetic adults on this one.
“The arson and looting is not justified, full stop”
Well at least it was only property crime and no-one was killed. Shame the same can’t be said for the events of Thursday. I’m more concerned about the circumstances surrounding the shooting of Mark Duggan than I am about a few laptops and some sportswear.
MJ
“At least it was only property crime”. They burned down people’s homes.
Yes, the flats above the shops. Fair point. Not good.
.
Confirmatioon of the second helicopter crash now on reuters but, according to the US, no casualties:
.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/08/08/uk-afghanistan-violence-idUKTRE7742XW20110808
.
“Earlier on Monday another NATO helicopter crashed in Paktia province, a volatile area in Afghanistan’s east, but there were no apparent casualties and it appeared there was no enemy activity in the area at the time, ISAF said”
Beautifully judged blog, Mr Murray.
Thank you.
(Mod/jon – well off-topic, deleted)
Isn’t it a bit odd that the police can ‘kettle’ tens of thousands of political demonstrators but are powerless to contain a few dozen rioting youths? Maybe the revolution will be easier than we thought.
I was interested in a “man on the street” interview, in a video from the Guardian:
.
“People are really discontented now, all over the place. The rich are having to give back a lot of money, losing a lot of money, and they’re trying to get it back from the poor. So they are squeezing us even more, making us even more discontent. And I think most probably this is could be something that is going to develop and go up and down the country from tonight.”
.
The comfortable and intellectual left have been rightly saying this for years of course. But if the vox pops are becoming of the view that the rich “are trying to get it back from the poor”, then that is quite a development indeed.
.
Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/video/2011/aug/07/tottenham-riots-david-lammy-mp-responds