The media is in a frenzy about Iranian “suspected” nuclear weapon development, with virtually every article and broadcast also referencing Israel’s view.
A free copy of The Catholic Orangemen of Togo for every one who first points out each mainstream media reference to Israel’s own massive illegal arsenal of nuclear weapons.
I don’t anticipate giving away a single book.
“Israel is destined for destruction and will soon disappear.” – November 13, 2006
“If they [the Palestinians] want to keep the Zionists, they can stay … Whatever the people decide, we will respect it. I mean, it’s very much in correspondence with our proposal to allow Palestinian people to decide through free referendums.” – September 2008 interview
Could someone please point me to where senior Israeli government officials have ever challenged the right of Israel to exist?
Should have been the “right of Iran to exist! in the last sentence.
Ahmedinejad rigged his election? Hamas didn’t rig their election, and they still don’t get recognised by Israel. Spare us the concern for democracy: it’s inconsistent. As it is for many Israeli citizens:
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/survey-most-israeli-jews-want-voting-rights-conditioned-on-allegiance-pledge-1.328123
Those of you who supposedly advocating for Iran to have nuclear weapons; can you guarantee that Iran once obtained such weapons will not use it or at least will not start flexing its muscles not only against Israel but also against Arabs and Turkey?
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I am not advocating for Israel to have nuclear weapons especially as it is contrary to the international law. I am also not advocating for Iran to have nuclear weapons as having it Iran will most probably start acting more aggressively and thus will encourage other nuclear states to launch pre emptive attack on Iran that could cost many lives.
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On the other hand American policy towards Iranian nuclear enrichment seems out of moral grounds since US at the same time shutting their eyes on Israel as major abuser of international law in this respect. But irrespectively of this Iranian continuation of uranium enrichment and working towards obtaining nuclear weapons will add more instability and insecurity towards already shaking world order.
Mike W I remind you of your words – they are echoes of the ‘Establishment’ and just as hollow (I am surprised you did not mention, “god will give you 72 virgins, 72 wives and everlasting happiness…”
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Your words:
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1. Israel is not going to use their nukes as a first resort – unlike the danger from the Iranian regime.
2. Israel doesn’t want to commit suicide – they value life – unlike the Shia mullahs.
3. Until now, the Middle East has never been so much at risk of total conflagration ( the Iranian nukes ). Think of the past 3 major Arab-Israel wars, the Iran-Iraq war, or the past decade in Iraq and Afghanistan. No major risk of world contagion…
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Please understand Mike, Israel conducts war by deception a doctrine encapsulated in their axiom. Knowing this we cannot ever be certain of ‘first resort’ to be safe.
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Life is so fragile Mike, all sane humans ‘value’ existence because death is always ‘just round the corner’ – Shia, Sunni ‘Mullah’ atheist or even the terminally ill value being, value survival; hope is a human belief.
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David Ben Gurion was “obsessed” with obtaining nuclear weapons to prevent The Holocaust from reoccurring…
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I decline your offer to ‘think of wars’ even ‘Glenn’s’ Fallujah video showing children burning with napalm sticking to their skin is emotionally disturbing. That is the reality, indiscriminate murder of the innocent – the mechanics of Western warfare.
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That is why Iran has no need for nuclear bombs – the West are in shame for one hundred years. That shame is their demise because that shame, that guilt, that humiliation is carried in 99% of all decent, all good, all moral people.
Easy.
FROM WND’S JERUSALEM BUREAU
Knesset member: Strike Iran now
Warns if U.S., others don’t take action, Israel should act alone
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Posted: May 18, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern
By Aaron Klein
© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com
JERUSALEM – Israel and the international community should consider carrying out strategic strikes now against Iran’s nuclear facilities to stall its suspected uranium enrichment activities, Israeli Knesset member Effie Eitam told WND yesterday during an interview.
Knesset Member Effie Eitam
Eitam, chairman of the National Union Party and a member of the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, warned Israel would need to attack Iran by itself if the international community led by the United States fails to successfully halt Tehran’s nuclear program within about a year.
He blasted Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert’s administration for “failing to devise a coherent strategy toward Iran” and urged Israel to immediately make public a doctrine of deterrence that would assure “total destruction” of Iran should it contemplate a first strike against the Jewish state.
“Iran is now at that kind of bottleneck junction where strategic sites that are known can be relatively easily and safely attacked with the goal of causing maximum delay,” said Eitam. “Strikes now can stall the entire nuclear process by many years.”
The Knesset member, a former Israeli Defense Forces general, said Israel may need to act alone against Iran.
“With or without a world coalition, Israel will have to take action at some point when we are fully sure Iran’s nuclear project is coming to a point of no return,” he said. ” I am worried all mechanisms of diplomacy used by the Iranians in response to the international movement against it are to buy time as they camouflage the real nature of their programs.”
“I think you meant to say that the madman rigged his election.”
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The Carter Center is a trusted pioneer of election observation. The Carter Center say`s the Iran election was fair and democratically held. Once again on this blog Stephen you have come on and tried to mislead people, and in my opinion you knowingly do so.
“You also conveniently forget the small question of the UN Security Council resolutions about Iran’s development of nuclear power and the access to be given to IAEA inspectors”
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And how long is Israel going to continue to refuse inspections? Or doesn’t that matter? Do you base your whole life on double standards or just this issue?
Stephen
Why are you writing so much about President Ahmadinejad? The President of Iran does not control foreign policy, nuclear policy or the armed forces. A lot of noise is made about and by him, but he’s not the guy. Have a look at the constitution:
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http://www.iranonline.com/iran/iran-info/Government/constitution.html
“The Carter Center is a trusted pioneer of election observation. The Carter Center say`s the Iran election was fair and democratically held”
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And no evidence was ever produced that it wasn’t.
Komodo
When have I been inconsistent on democracy?
“When have I been inconsistent on democracy?”
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Stephen, by your constant interference with the truth.
Stephen,
your friend Islam Karimov in Uzbekistan has rigged elections again and again since 1991. He has even changed the constitution to his favour and lifted the ban on two consequitive presidency for one person.
Although I don’t like iranian regime, I must say they always had fair elections.
You should empty your brain from hatred towards all who criticize Israel for crimes against humanity and propaganda lies in building supremacy not only in the region but in the whole world one day. Well, No Pasaran!
By the way, I read somewhere you saying that emir in Bukhara before soviets used to throw his enemies from highly built towers. I asked a friend from Uzbekistan if that was true. He says that was rubbish propaganda which was used by soviets to divide the population and occupy lands. Similar tactics to what Israel is doing today, init?
Nuid
no evidence was ever produced that it wasn’t – well none that you want to bother looking for anyway.
The Carter Center never monitored the 2009 Iranian Presidential Election
see here http://www.cartercenter.org/peace/democracy/observed.html
Craig,
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O/T but just saw this on US support for Karimov:
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“The U.S. Senate Appropriations Committee, in a move initiated by the Obama administration, has voted to waive Bush-era human rights restrictions on military aid to the Islam Karimov dictatorship in Uzbekistan, one of the most brutal and repressive regimes on the planet.
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http://www.fpif.org/articles/obama_to_aid_uzbek_dictatorship?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FPIF+%28Foreign+Policy+In+Focus+%28All+News%29%29
Nuid’s probably thinking of the 1996 Palestinian Authority elections….after which, to remind you yet again, the winning party was proscribed by Israel, and, at its behest, the US and EU.
“Stephen,
your friend Islam Karimov in Uzbekistan”
You clearly haven’t read what I have said – Karimov is no friend of mine.
As for Bukhara – I think you will find that it is not just the Soviets who say the towers of Bukhara were used in that manner. Also mentioned in Thubrons and Hopkirks accounts.
Guest
Pointing out facts that disagree with others analysis is not interference with the truth – unless you have a peculiar definition of what truth means.
@ If salt loses its flavour, with what will you salt it?
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Since we have touched my ‘favorite’ topic; it all depends what you call fair election? When people are told to choose from only limited number of candidates (likewise in Iran) then presidential election in Uzbekistan seem to be also fair. Karimov allows people to choose president but likewise ayatolas regime in Iran he makes sure that people make ‘right’ choice. It is true that Iranian president has limited powers and this determents small flexibility that Iranian regime allows on presidential elections.
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Also about your statement about Bukhara. It is true you can also trust me as I am also Uzbek (might not be your friend but also in a possession of some knowledge about my country). Emir on Bukhara was known as one of the most despotic leaders on his time. Not only he sometimes ordered public executions BUT kept thousands of people in Zindans (underground prison cells) including foreign nationals. But communist were not better. They have also executed a lot of Uzbeks including those who believed that revolution will bring positive changes to the region. Communist used a lot of propaganda and brainwashed many generations but cruelty of Emir of Bukhara is well knows in various sources and not only in those under communists control.
How anyone can even mention UN Resolutions in relation to Iran, while ignoring Israeli reaction to UN Resolutions, is wayyy beyond me. How many is Israel currently in violation of? 36?
Israel ignores UN Resolutions, AND has an illegal arsenal of nuclear weapons. But it still sees fit to squeal about Iran. Chutzpah insanity.
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“no evidence was ever produced that it wasn’t – well none that you want to bother looking for anyway.”
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If you have it, produce it.
@ Stephen
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Can you please clarify whether or not you are a Karimov’s sympathiser?
“The Carter Center never monitored the 2009 Iranian Presidential Election”
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I didn’t cite the Carter Center. Someone else did. I said no evidence of fraud was ever produced. If you have evidence Stephen, post it.
@ Scouse Billy
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Finally! No more masquerade. Karimov is now officially American darling.
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It was not too difficult to predict. US considers Uzbekistan in their short term interests (at present to use it as main base for supply and retreat of US troops from Afghanistan). In future Uzbekistan will play major role in US vs China-Russia great game in Central Asia.
The shell game of passing off; Plutocracy, and Plutarchy as “Democracy” and serfdom as “Freedom” has been so successful, which none of the serfs caught up in this web of deceit can identify and or even begin to comprehend the extent of the forlorn lives lost only to satiate the lust for power, of the plutocrats, and oligarchs whom have for long understood their tenuous grip on power constructs.
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Hence no surprise to find the debate about MSM. Whom so ever owning these are not any other than the oligarchs, and plutocrats, whom also own the government. Therefore it would be naive to the extent of almost infantile belief that the same “Media” will reflect the truth, and actualities without being heavily biased in favour of the owners, and the wishes/edicts/policies thereof. Fact that oligarchs, and plutocrats, have also determined the prevalent intelligence quotient of those engaged in this debate. The serfs whom have also been educated based on the criteria set by the said Plutarchy. Therefore the never ending surprise at the heavily biased edicts pontificated by the MSM including the BBC, as the sources of disseminations of tidbits and “information” for the serfs, whom have been educated to accept these edicts, as their own thoughts and of their own thinking, thought out all by themselves!
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To this end the paucity of understanding that; IAEA, and NPT have been constituted to aid eradication of nuclear weapons, and promotion of nuclear energy. Further, any signatory to NPT can go so far as having in place all the components of any potential nuclear weapon set in place without assembly of these said components without infringing the treaty. However, as we have all seen in practice, IAEA stuffed with yes men, and vassals from those occupied countries by US has come to impugn upon promotion of nuclear energy through proscription/prohibition of parts of nuclear energy industry, mainly the enrichment. The inanely stupid and weak argument forwarded are based on the probable diversion of the technology onto a potential nuclear weapon that could aid and facilitate any hostile intentions of the owners of the said imaginary weapon (ifs, buts, pans etc.)
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Further reinforcing the ignorance, total lack of attention to the concept of deterrence, which evidently is no more applicable because; “the imaginary owners of the imaginary nuclear bomb” are assumed to be “irrational, blood thirsty, baby rump eating, barbarians” whom cannot be trusted with onerous responsibilities that go with owning such a comprehensively destructive weapon. The Kafkaesque trial upon crimes yet to be commissioned, as well as interrogations of the intent of those deemed undesirable, somehow is never questioned by the so called the best and the brightest, whom earn their living pushing the money junkies policies for governance of the planet Earth. All these reliant on the firm knowledge that the accused do not have a bargaining nuclear bomb, to throw back at the aggressors.
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To simplify the above, the current iniquitous state of affairs has taken a leap from ridiculous to sublime stupidity, by engaging in the enterprise of prohibition of knowledge, science, and know how. Evidently the plutocrats, and oligarchs have become gods; prohibiting the fruit of knowledge, and punishing those whom seek to acquire any such prohibited know how. The fact that these days also sovereignty, independence, and self sufficiency are deemed to be of irrelevance, and self defence, an act of terrorism, that ought not be tolerated in case others are “emboldened” by any such defiant act of self preservation.
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Therefore, it is quiet natural to find the inane arguments going around the same pivotal references set by the perverse Plutarchy, that limits the discourse to a narrow, circular and pointless debate with no resolution other than further wars, and bloodshed. However, considering that Iran is not a weak, and dilapidated country, manned by uninformed and illiterate nationals, there exists a real possibility of the aggressors butt getting handed back to them on a platter. As reflected in the diplomatic announcement of the old hand Lavarov; “any attacks on Iran will be fraught with unpredictable results” which is also echoed by Medvedev. Simply put, any attack on Iran will not be the usual “cakewalk to Baghdad”, and or “march on Kabul”, and or the Libyan walk-through. Furthermore given the last débâcle of the zionists’ attacks on Lebanon that resulted in displacement of hundreds of thousands of Israelis, whom were left on the beaches to fend for themselves. Therefore in case of any attacks by Israel, the zionists ought to expect a mass migration of refugees numbering no less than one million, this fact alone threatening the very ethos of the Jewish state.
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Notwithstanding the above, none of the belligerents attacking Iran are currently in any position to attack Iran, however, the business of sanctions, which simply put means the money junkies are getting money for nothing in the guise of sanction busting is a good business, and the greater the hullabaloo the better for the sanctioneers whom have learned to expect “unusual returns” , and screw the Iranians for more money by increasing their costs of doing business, which of course is all in the spirit of mythical “free markets” (another lie for pacification of the serfs).
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Finally in the days of soviet union the population of the eastern block were cynical of their media, and government, and the news. Alas, as yet that level of sophistication has not been attained in the West in general hence the reliance on the Media, and the complaint thereof. The truth is, there has never been any “free press” to publish; books, magazines, and news, the “democracy” only exists in punters minds, and the dreams and aspirations of equal opportunity are only true if the dreamer is asleep. Snap out of your stupor and comprehend your “Freedom” is your limited ability to do as you wish within the constraints set in place by your financial ranking which really does not amount to much, otherwise you would be out enjoying yourself, instead of sitting there and being computer bound. Spare me the lectures on “free speech” the bastards cannot shut me up so they let me be.
Bye bye
Hey! People! Italian bond yields have just gone past seven per cent! Everything is now bound to go tits up! Sit tight!
Interesting that as soon as Israel is mentioned Stephen and MikeW are back after several days’ absence. No commiserations to Craig on his depression either or comments on other recent threads. M..mmmm?
Just had a quick (TV) look at protest in central London. Looks huge, but I’m not getting a “long view”.
@ passerby
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It seemed at one point that Iraq was not a weak state either. Saddam’s army regarded to be 8th or 9th strongest and he had unchallenged grip on power all over Iraq.
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Weak states are not only those where population starve and where there is no authority BUT also those where in critical circumstances (such as foreign invasion, or internal regime change) incumbent government or more often authoritarian regime is not able to run the country and provide order.
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As for Lavrov’s comments this is one other example of how Russian foreign policy is more anti-western oriented then pro-Russian itself. Russia hour after hour is getting reduced to China’s handyman.
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And also I totally agree with you about freedom of media. This was never a case. News have always been presented in the way as to manipulate public opinion.
Mike W:
1. Israel have already threatened just that, with most European capitals as targets.
2.Israel has the Masada complex, and that means rather than lose the battle , suicide is the way out.
3. Iran has no nukes !! Iran has no delivery system capable of it either. Iran has never tested a nuclear weapon. Israel has ! Israel is the major risk not only for regional but also global conflict.IF IF IF !! Iran has no nuclear weapons !
The mad ones are the those that Norway rewarded with the peace prize.They are proposing war !
@ Wiz,
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What else to expect from the country that is run by Mafia? It has been a long time since Germany and France have been sponsoring Italian economy. Weak segments of the chain fail first (rule of jungle).
More police than protesters in Trafalgar Square and many arrests are being made.