The fashionable left continues its attempt to co-opt and elevate gangsters and violent thieves by an extremely poor article in the Guardian on the Duggan shooting. The Guardian acknowledge that Duggan had a gun, and that it was loaded, but call him “unarmed” on the basis that it was in a shoebox. The police, incidentally, deny that.
It is still completely beyond me why so many commenters on this blog seek to conflate the genuine problems police confront as they are increasingly faced with violent armed criminals, with the genuinely indefensible police actions in cases like their killing of Jean Charles De Menezes. Refusal to acknowledge the difference devalues the arguments around what is and is not reasonable for the police to do. Duggan is not De Menezes. The police were quite right to believe that Duggan was armed. Something went wrong in that Duggan was shot – but it was not an action without reason.
At a banal level, I had a really horrible journey down from St Andrews yesterday on a very overcrowded East Coast train, with the now routine problem of people sitting on the floor between coaches. In the coach which I was in, two tables of young people were listening to extremely loud music on a boombox. It really was very unpleasant, and prevented others from sleeping, reading etc. Two or three passengers asked them to turn it down, which they would do for perhaps thirty seconds and then turn it right up again. One notably old lady who had the misfortune to be seated back to back with them was called a “stupid old cow”. The train staff seemed cowed and resorted to treating it all as a big joke. I tried to reason with them and got “Fuck off fat man” for my pains.
They were wearing sportswear. I pondered what a pity it was that they did not kick the old lady to death and go out and smash some more shop windows and steal some more sportswear. Then commenters on this blog could have explained to me they were an enlightened part of the revolutionary vanguard.
Rose – re hate the sin and love the sinner…it’s never worked for me. I don’t really do loving or hating, anyway…I lack the emotional engagement necessary. Cold loathing, maybe. My posting style here is probably conditioned by trying to punch my weight on troll-infested sites. And the Murdochs aren’t very nice either.
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As I clearly said, teachers who threaten should not be teaching; I am advocating the restricted use of corporal punishment for the incorrigible. I knew a teacher whose methods were humane, and she’d more or less got her extremely rough classes under control. But some of her pupils found out where she lived, slashed her car tyres, and tried to set fire to her flat…and even the police were reluctant to pursue the matter, although it was well known who had done it. Both teachers and police are hamstrung by PC, and the notion that a ned is in some way not personally responsible for his neddish conduct. I oppose that notion.
Ah, Hunter S, you walk among us. Komodo, I am not convinced by your statistical sample of one. I could cite you dozens of perfectly decent teachers to whom nothing of the sort has happened. Nor am I convinced that I would leave it to you (or anyone) to decide who is ‘incorrigible’. NB someone filled with ‘cold loathing’ needs to find a radiator.
Technicolour; I am sure you could cite me dozens of teachers, etc. And I can cite the alarming increase in juvenile violence since corporal punishment was abolished. And we can go on citing stuff at each other indefinitely, can’t we?
Re. the radiator, my vivarium has a perfectly adequate heat lamp, thank you.
Felix, it was, who mentioned the Guardian (a newspaper which would not let us post links to this blog regarding Craig’s exposure of Gould’s six meetings having Werritty present). Its coverage of the Kelly death by Vikram Dodd is deplorable. Trying to claim Kelly was not murdered and supporting the lie by “I was present at the Hutton inquiry” makes him unworthy to be a journalist. More disturbing is the number of comments in agreement. We, those who beleive that an inquest should be held into every death not accounted for by natural causes are dubbed as “conspiracy theorists”. Yes, until we get answers, that’s what we are. The first comments agree that those who want answers are conspiracy theorists. Forget any futher posts. They probably won’t be read.
Stafford Scott, a member of the three-member community reference group set up by the Independent Police Complaints Commission(IPCC) set up to ensure public confidence in the investigation into the murder of Mark Duggan has resigned.
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Stafford reported that the crime scene had been compromised by removing the mini-cab Duggan was travelling in shortly after the shooting before the IPCC commissioner and her team got to the scene. Police returned the cab to its owner despite containing evidence ” of major significance” to the investigation.
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The crime scene is a highly important source of physical evidence and is where forensic science investigations begin. From the point of collection to the time of archiving, evidence must be kept within a strict chain of custody to ensure no possible cross-contamination with any other objects. The methods employed to collect and preserve evidence are crucial and it is important that fundamental practices are adhered to.
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Tampering, interferring or removal of forensic evidence is punishable by law under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984.
Komodo: Go on then, cite the ‘alarming increase in juvenile violence since corporal punishment was abolished’. I mean, facts, figures etc. Tony Blair, to give you another statistical sample of one, was beaten at Fettes and he abetted in how many deaths? How many wreckings of homes? How much violence and looting?
Here’s how it works:
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http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Rothschild.htm
Re: Corporal punishment.
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My old school was a real throwback, like something out of a Charles Dickens novel when I attended it in the late 70’s. Corporal punishment was the order of the day, but brutalising kids demonstrably did not reduce violence at all, it made it an everyday thing.
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That was for the first couple of years of comprehensive. The next school was nothing like it. It was like getting out of prison. No kids were assaulted by teachers (which is what corporal punishment actually is), and the atmosphere of menace and violence that pervaded the former school almost entirely dissipated.
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Adults beat children because it pleases them to do so. It’s for no other reason. It’s for power, sadism, instilling fear for control, and down to personal cowardice and depravity. Never seen one person even think of trying it when the other person’s in a position to fight back.
With hindsight, of course it’s possible for journalists to criticise a police operation where somebody was shot dead. Try putting one of those wet journos in charge of such an operation, though, and see who gets shot.
It’s right that a full enquiry is held and lessons learned for future operations. It’s right that the enquiry results should be entirely public. It’s right we should ask if the most competent personel were in charge and if not, why not? But the full story simply is not available instantly in the wake of such an incident and any attempt to get the story out quickly to a hungry 24-hour press cycle will be liable to errors. Again, with the benefit of hindsight, the police should have held back their version of events until they were more sure of the details.
Not wanting to pre-judge the enquiries myself, but to me it looks possible that the police did what they could with the situations, both in their handling of a suspect they had good reason to believe was armed and in the ensuing riots. They had to hold back from tackling the rioters until they had the resources available to deal with the situation safely and decisively. And they got those resources organized remarkably quickly and brought things under control. Again, try putting a Guardian journalist in charge of a riot response and see what happens, other than the poor sod pissing him- or herself.
Ah David H, your choice of spelling betrays you, as it does with all Americans. But you keep assuming a good result – “It’s right that” is all very well, but it never actually happens. What we always get instead is waffle, “secret” evidence, and blatantly perverse conclusions.
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“Liable to errors” – are you serious? Just like the, ehem, “errors” that said Charles De Mendez was all wired up and ready to blow, to the Gibraltar IRA suspects having a “button job” that was heroically averted by executing them on the spot, to Jessica Lynch fighting off mad jihadists until she ran out of ammo and then with her knife before being rescued. Riiighhtt – just honest “errors” in the rush to report the truth, eh?
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Maybe a Guardian journalist wouldn’t have been terrified of his own BS and decided to open fire the moment someone showed an off-white face, David. Maybe a Guardian journalist in charge of riot control would have had the necessary training and bias against anybody daring to question your authority or step up against the state, so your challenge is pretty silly, frankly. What are you trying to say, unless you’re in charge of the riot that your own over-reaction and brutality has caused very often, you’re not allowed to comment? Jesus!
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Craig,
I have a knife. It’s in my kitchen drawer. Is it safe for me to go out or might I get bumped off by the old bill? After all, I couldn’t really be called unarmed, could I?
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On a related point, 20 November will forever be ‘tell the fuzz to eff off’ day. Hallelujah for some sense from the the court of appeal.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8903177/Judge-its-no-crime-to-swear-at-police-they-are-used-to-it.html
Good to have a fast chat last night..my phone network dropped off yet again..talk to you again soon..
Surely the point is the lack of proportional response on the part of the police. In the case of Duggan they over-reacted, in the case of the rowdy behaviour on the train they failed to respond at all.
Margo’s post on Medialens might amuse Craig. Margo live in South Africa and would be at home with most of us on this site. I have had one or two similar scam letters but one was from Hong Kong and the other ostensibly from Nigeria.
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Just for a laugh: The man in the mirror
Posted by margo on November 21, 2011, 7:11 am
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Is this African ‘banker’ whose missives fill my in-box really that different to any of the bankers who flogged fraudulent deriviatives in what Max Keiser terms ‘financial terrorism’? He talks up a tailor-made product in a persuasive manner. He doesn’t miss an opportunity to benefit from disaster. He promises legitimacy. He assures me he has my best interests at heart. He has a nice marketing line in ‘us against those other greedy sods’ which (almost) works a treat. Which big banker looking in the mirror does not see Mr Wampah’s face looming behind his shoulder, giving him a friendly wink?
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Hello My Dear,
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How best we can assist each other? I am Mr.David R.Wampah a Banker here in GHANA.
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I believe it is destiny for me to come across your name. You are going to benefit from it.
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One of our customers had a fixed deposit with my bank in 2004 for 72 calendar months, valued at US$18,400,000.00 (Eighteen Million, Four Hundred Thousand US Dollars). The due date for this deposit January 15, 2010. Sadly the said depositor was among the death victims in the May 26 2006 Earthquake disaster in Jawa, Indonesia that killed over 5,000 people. He was there on a business trip and that was how he met his end.
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My bank management is yet to know about his death, I knew about it because I am his account officer. The depositor did not mention any Next of Kin/ Heir when the account was opened, and he was not married and no children. Last week my Bank Management requested that I should give instructions on what to do about his funds or divert the fund into the bank treasury.
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If my Bank Directors happens to know that he is dead, they will take the funds for their personal use, so I don’t want such to happen. That was why when I saw your name I was happy and I am now seeking your co-operation to present you as Next of Kin/ Heir to the account, since you have the same surname with him . There is no risk involved; the transaction will be executed under a legitimate arrangement that will protect you from any breach of law.
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It is better that we claim the fund, than allowing the Bank Directors to take it for their selves under the pretense they will divert it into the banks treasury, as they are rich already. I am not a greedy person, so I am suggesting we share the funds equal, 50/50% to both parties. Let me know your mind on this and please do treat this information as TOP SECRET. We shall go over the details, like your account and identity numbers, once I receive your urgent response. We can as well discuss this on phone; let me have your telephone number. Have a nice day and remain blessed.
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My regards, Mr. David R.Wampah
Thanks John Goss for your two posts. Yes on Dr Kelly the Guardian has followed the establishment line. They and others in the corporate media (I do not call them ‘mainstream’) have not reported the recent news that the Attorney General’s decision not to grant an inquest (the right of every citizen in this country) is being challenged in the High Court on December 19th for Judicial Review nor that nearly £50,000 has been donated by over 800 concerned citizens towards the costs. Felix did not give a link to any new article from Vikram Dodd who is just an establishment stooge.
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http://www.inquest4drdk.co.uk/
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Also good digging on the solicitors Werrity was connected to. Fox was Shadow Health.
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Shadow Cabinet
In June 1997, Fox was appointed Opposition Front Bench Spokesman on Constitutional Affairs and joined the Shadow Cabinet in 1998 as the principal spokesman for Constitutional Affairs. Between 1999 and 2003 he was the Shadow Secretary of State for Health.
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In November 2003, Fox was appointed campaign manager for Michael Howard following the no-confidence vote against the Conservative leader, Iain Duncan Smith. Fox was made co-chairman of the party by Michael Howard when he became party leader in November 2003. After the 2005 general election he was promoted within the Shadow Cabinet to become Shadow Foreign Secretary. On 7 December 2005 he was moved to Defence by new Leader of the Opposition David Cameron MP.
Blair should have been beaten a lot harder at Fettes. Too late now.
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Testimonial from another former customer:
“”For three days my rear ached, the thick weals stayed for two weeks, and the scars finally went about six weeks later. For a few days I was a mini-hero. How much did it hurt? When did you start crying? etc. But the whole event was quickly erased from school life.
“By everyone but me, that is. I have never forgotten the beating and I doubt I ever will. It served as an excellent reminder that if I was caught doing something wrong then I had to expect punishment.”
http://www.braehead.info/html/the_belt.html
The operatives of the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces have been at work in Tahrir Square over the weekend. Many deaths and injuries.
What a chilling title. One coming here eventually?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Council_of_the_Armed_Forces
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The Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF) consists of a body of 20 senior officers in the Egyptian military. As a consequence of the Egyptian Revolution of 2011, the Council was handed the power to govern Egypt by its departing President Hosni Mubarak on February 11, 2011.
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The Council meets regularly, as well as in times of a national emergency, with the President of Egypt serving as its chairman. During the course of the 2011 revolution, the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces met first on February 9, 2011 under the chairmanship of the former Egyptian President, Hosni Mubarak.
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The Council met for the first time without the chairmanship of the President on February 10, and issued their first press statement, which signaled that the council was about to assume power which they did the next day following Mubarak’s relinquishing of power to the military. The military junta is headed by the Field Marshal Mohamed Hussein Tantawi who served as the Minister of Defense under Mubarak, and includes the service heads and other senior commanders of the Egyptian Armed Forces, namely Air Marshal Reda Mahmoud Hafez Mohamed, Air Force commander, Lt. Gen. Sami Hafez Anan, Armed Forces Chief of Staff, Lt. Gen. Abd El Aziz Seif-Eldeen, Commander of Air Defense, and Vice Admiral Mohab Mamish, Navy Commander in Chief.
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Blair
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Tony Blair, who is sometimes known as Miranda, attended a private boarding school called Fettes, in Edinburgh.
One of the people Tony Blair had contact with at Fettes was Sir Knox Cunningham.
According to John Rentoul’s biography Tony Blair Prime Minister, Knox Cunningham would visit the school several times a year and he liked to visit the boys’ quarters.
Blair loved having discussions with Knox Cunningham.
John Rentoul quotes one of Blair’s contemporaries as saying: “Cunningham was the sort of man who liked boys.”
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http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2011/08/top-uk-pedophile-rings.html
Duggan is a poor example, we will never know (what level of incompetence/corruption) led to his death because there is no longer any acceptance of responsibility in this country, the police, literally, can get away with murder, so can their political masters. You do good work Craig, this isn’t amongst it.
The train, well again dereliction of duty by the ticket inspector, he should have radioed ahead for the transport police, you should have insisted on it, but then again after two generations of Teflon coated corrupt, incompetent politicians, police and scammers why should they?
Ugandan “discussions”, Mary? Oh dear, oh dear….
I tried to reason with them and got “Fuck off fat man” for my pains.
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Diplomatic skills a bit rusty?
Yet another terrrrrrrr plot is discovered and an arrest made. Look out for the hatchet-faced and cold-eyed man who appears to the right of and behind Bloomberg in the press conference.
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/20/police-arrest-suspect-in-alleged-terror-plot/
I see who he is. Scary?
The NY Police Commissioner.
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http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dDamE7d3BWM/TqmJy94woVI/AAAAAAAACnI/feCDmvzQh4k/s1600/alg_ray_kelly.jpg
Several people have already taken Craig to task for writing such a embarrassingly poor Post, both for substance and style; indeed your average shook-jock or even sixth form student could write a better ridiculous rant against “the Left”.
Every time he posts such rubbish, it undermines all the good things he stands for, and further damages his credibly amongst many;
“This list reminds me of Craig Murray’s facile dismissal of poverty and inequality as causes of the riots in the UK. He dismissed them as causes by pointing to Ghana – which by child mortality is worse off than any of the Mid East countries I listed. Should we therefore dismiss poverty and inequality as having anything to do with the uprisings in the Middle East? If you apply Craig Murray’s reasoning you’d have to.”
http://www.zcommunications.org/natos-clients-could-easily-do-worse-than-gaddafi-by-joe-emersberger
What disturbs me about the solicitor, Stephen Jac Williams, is what was ongoing while he was a co-director with Werritty of UK Health Supply Services Limited and UK Health Group Limited (and I realise a solicitor can just be a director in name) with his firm, Beesley, Bergess, Williams. A tribunal case was brought against the firm in which he was a partner. Williams is described as having “always dealt thoroughly and professionally with matters entrusted to him by his clients and was highly thought of.”
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Nevertheless, he was supposed to have been supervising a Mr Lewis, a former solicitor, who was not allowed to work for a Law firm without the Law Society’s permission, which Williams’ firm sought and received. There was something shady going on regarding the sources of money. Take the case of:
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“Client Mr S
22. The Respondent acted for Mr S in the purchase of two flats. Funding for his purchase was by way of mortgage advance from Cheval Bridging Finance Ltd. The vendor appeared to have indicated that all monies should be paid direct to his mortgagees and he did not wish to instruct a legal representative. In an email to the solicitor representing Cheval Bridging Finance Ltd Mr Lewis stated that the clients’ funds were coming from the Middle East and that there were security/terrorism issues to be satisfied before a receiving bank could accept payment and forward the money to the firm. A third file indicated that a third party was to provide the balance of money required to complete the transaction. The identity of the payer or source of those funds did not appear on the file and could not be located. Police officers who had obtained a production order in respect of the client matter file had attended at the firm. Mr Lewis had said he could not recall any difficulties with the matter save for the police visit and a suspicion that “money was terrorist money or money laundering.”
23. The client matter file contained a mortgage deed purportedly signed by Mr Williams over the stamped 8 Molasses Row address. Mr Williams denied signing that document and he did not recognise the handwriting. The matter had been conducted from the 8 Molasses Row address.”
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and
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“Transactions involving Messrs P
24. Mr Lewis had conduct of a number of client matters for Messrs P and their family members. Many of the files appeared to be incomplete and papers were incorrectly filed. In several matters the client who was ostensibly purchasing a property was replaced by a third party or family member during the course of the transaction or funds were provided from third parties without any indication on the client matter file on the source of those funds. There were no documents on the client matter files to explain the sources of funds received. Letters and documents for Mr AP, Mr SP and Ms AP had been addressed to those clients at 8 Molasses Row. Mr Lewis had told the FIO that the P files had “got a little messy because of the circumstances” but there were no problems regarding compliance with The Law Society’s warning card in respect of property fraud. Mr Lewis stated that he had found it unusual that Mr SP had given so much money, given his youth, but his parents had confirmed the position. Mr Lewis confirmed that he no longer acted for the P’s as Mr AP had been (p7) arrested in America the previous year for people trafficking. Mr SP also had been arrested.” (From the tribunal report published in the Law Society Magazine).
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The tribunal further noted:
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“48. With regard to allegations (ii) and (iii) a number of the transactions conducted by Mr Lewis failed to comply with The Law Society’s warning card in respect of property fraud and/or money laundering. Many of Mr Lewis’s client matter files lacked 11 documents, contained incorrect narratives and failed to explain unusual transactions or events.”
While I don’t thing somebody should be tried again once he or she has been punished, the inability to explain the comings and goings of monies, and funding from the Middle East which necessitated a bridging loan until money-laundering or terrorist issues had been checked and eliminated, with clients involved in “people-trafficking” suggests a firm that is not as scrupulous as it might be in its supervision of former solicitors with a poor history of client care.
The questions are, did Evans, Beesley, Williams act for Werrity and the Health companies? If so what monies changed hands? Where did the monies come from?
Well, well, well….
http://companycheck.co.uk/company/OC300068
macky, a lot in your post that is sadly true about Craig!. That he even thinks the “Guardian” as being of the left tells you he has a sensory processing disorder on his political compass.
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That Craig implies this
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“They were wearing sportswear. I pondered what a pity it was that they did not kick the old lady to death and go out and smash some more shop windows and steal some more sportswear.”
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Worthy of Murdoch journalism is that!. Nothing new in “young people” doing what happened to Craig, I saw that sort of thing forty years ago. Its all to do with the way “young people” are brought up in this barbaric environment, those “young people” are the real victems, but Craig just can`t see it!.
I think what’s been happening is that the firm of solicitors supplies a company secretary to a company which feels that transparency is undesirable. The same CS can be working for several – possibly unrelated – companies at a time. This is also true of Foxwerrity’s defence-related shells.
excellent piece and analyses on Uzbekistan from Foreign Policy.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/11/14/islam_karimov_uzbekistan_libya?page=full
Ponychasejohn
If you honestly believe that there is any parallel between having a knife in your kitchen drawer and having a loaded gun in your car, you are a fool.