St Andrews Iran Debate 55

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I am happy to report that at St Andrews the motion “This House Would Resort to War to Prevent a Nuclear Iran” was defeated by about 90% to 10%. More down to the students good sense than to my speech, I think. As St Andrews is not exactly a bastion of left liberalism, I was rather pleased by this. Particularly as the debate took place not far from the Werritty parental home…

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55 thoughts on “St Andrews Iran Debate”

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  • Jives

    Consider the run up to the Iraq “war” in 2003.

    Millions marched worldwide,in protest,and it had no effect on Their decision to invade.

    They got away with it then and probably think They can get away with again.

    Same media methodology>Bludgeon us to death with non-stop propaganda and They’ll sicken us with it but knowing it wont prevent Them waging the war.

    Bastards,of course.

  • Komodo

    Mary:
    I can’t find the basis for Cartalucci’s claim anywhere. He seems to have cited a blog post at random. Hokayem’s post of 15th. Nov describes the situation on both sides, with anti-Assadists making the reasonable point that they cannot expect defections of troops with heavy weapons until Assad’s air capability is removed. I can’t see any mention of the Islamic Brotherhood, or their alleged sources of supply. Hokayem’s formal report will be published on Tuesday. Perhaps that will be more illuminating, but I don’t think so.

  • ingo

    And this outpouring of reality from Ehud Barak really has put the cat amongst the pidgeons.

    “Appearing on PBS’ Charlie Rose, Barak was asked if he would want nuclear weapons if he were an Iranian government minister. He said he probably would.

    BARAK: Probably, probably. I know it’s not – I mean I don’t delude myself that they are doing it just because of Israel. They look around, they see the Indians are nuclear, the Chinese are nuclear, Pakistan is nuclear, not to mention the Russians.”

    And the 6th. Fleet, Ehud, not to forget the french base in the UAE, or your own clandestine subs, crusing along Irans coastal waters.
    This video is about an hour old , the protesters are battling it out with riot police in Tahrir square.
    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2011/11/2011112082333907688.html

  • Fedup

    Komodo,
    Have you looked around to find any links of the mercenaries assigned to Syria? Meet the American-Led Mercenaries Protecting the U.A.E. from Protestors The simple fact is Syria is standing in the way of the PANC and eretz isreal way, hence the daily two minutes hate ceremony, and the close shot mobile phone clips with the voice overs, passed as the carnage unfolding.
    ,
    The revolution by mercenaries has passed its sell by date too, by the looks of it.
    ,
    PS Cast your mind back to when Asssad had an outburst about those whom sell power!

  • Komodo

    Fedup –
    Whatever the machinations of the usual suspects in Syria it is debatable that Israel wants regime change in Syria. They know the devil they’re dealing with, it’s secular, and it has so far been possible to keep it more or less in line. They don’t have any guarantee that a new regime would not be islamicist, and if they did, there is still no guarantee that it would oblige them by obstructing the supply of weapons to Hizb’ullah in Lebanon, or remaining quiescent on the subject of the Golan Heights. If Israel is behind the Syrian uprising, it is probably because, (as is admittedly often the case) Israel is responding without considering the consequences – even for itself. In my opinion.

  • Mary

    Gideon lies. He is doing the bidding of the warmongers in Israel and Amerika.

    .
    Mr Osborne said: “We have ceased all contact between the UK’s financial system and the Iranian financial system.
    .
    “We’re doing this because of international evidence that Iran’s banks are involved in the development of Iran’s weaponised military nuclear weapon programme.
    .
    “We’re doing this to improve the security not just of the whole world, but the national security of the United Kingdom.”
    .
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15823622

  • Mary

    Russia Today’s take on the sanctions.
    .
    The US along with Britain and Canada have announced new financial and energy sanctions against Iran to halt its suspected nuclear weapons program.

    .
    ­According to a US official, who spoke to AP on condition of anonymity, new sanctions will likely be announced later Monday by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
    The financial and energy sanctions will target Iranian companies, the hardline Revolutionary Guard force and Iran’s petrochemicals sector.
    .

    The sanctions were put in action at 15:00 GMT on Monday with all UK credit and financial institutions to cease all transactions with banks, including the Central Bank of Iran.Britain’s Treasury chief George Osborne has said that this is the first time the British government has cut an entire country’s banking sector off from the UK’s financial sector, using powers created by the Counter-Terrorism Act of 2008.
    .

    “We’re doing this because of international evidence that Iran’s banks are involved in the development of Iran’s weaponized military nuclear weapon program. We’re doing this to improve the security not just of the whole world, but the national security of the United Kingdom,” he said.
    .
    This follows the International Atomic Energy Agency’s report, published last week, on Iran allegedly pursuing nuclear weapons.The IAEA watchdog has said that they have evidence that Iran does possess the technology to make a nuclear weapon and is already trying to do so.
    .
    The US, Canada, South Korea, Australia, Britain and France have all imposed sanctions on Iran in the last few years, but they have not had much affect.
    .
    Last year the US imposed sanctions on Iran’s banking and energy sectors. Back then the main target was Iran’s ability to refine crude oil into petroleum products.The UN has imposed sanctions on Iran four times, but since China and Russia are reluctant to support them the result has so far been poor.
    .
    Both countries are arguing that the United Kingdom, France and the United States will use sanctions as an “instrument for regime change in Iran.” The report, they say, shows nothing new and therefore there are no reasons to impose fresh sanctions.
    In the meantime, Iran remains firm in insisting that its nuclear program is purely civilian and is aimed at scientific research.

    .
    “Sanctions are a lose-lose game in which both sides make a loss. If they don’t invest in our oil projects, they will lose an appealing market,” Iran’s Minister of Industry, Mines and Commerce Mehdi Ghazanfari said, speaking to the press before the sanctions were officially announced.
    .
    http://rt.com/news/iran-sanctions-us-847/

  • Komodo

    As someone said two or three years ago, (to the effect of) “What have we got left to embargo from Iran? Pistachio nuts?”
    PS Along with Turkish ones, they’re the best pistachios available…

  • ingo

    Looks like this time the Egyptian public means it and the generals are twitching. Listening to vague William this morning talking of the need for fair and free elections, he dare not use the word democracy, avoiding to talk about the incessant control Egypts military has had over their country for time in memorial, was priceless window dressing.
    Egyptians had enough of repressive measures and the almost masonic influence of their military in public affairs, their business accumen and connections to foreign powers who’s past had nothing but control and ill will in mind for EGypt.

    Here in Norwich, Charles Clarkes old seat in Norwich South is being defended by Clive lewis, another of the celebrity/tv presenter variety, rather than Blurs drummer who missed the selection. Clivwe was chosen, not because he has politcal nous, but for his ability to hard talk a good fight, rah rah rah.
    You want to listen to the numpties all cockahoop about this, the Britsh public is so goddamn politcally inep it hurts, trapped/conditioned by their tribal politics, it is so disheartening. http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/tv_reporter_picked_to_fight_norwich_south_for_labour_warns_simon_wright_his_days_as_an_mp_are_numbered_1_1131749

  • Komodo

    Re. Syria:
    http://english.al-akhbar.com/wikileaks-cables/advisor-tells-peretz-its-syria-syria-syria
    “In an August 2 (2006 -K) conversation, unofficial MinDef Peretz
    advisor Pini Medan told Pol/C that among all the issues
    Peretz is facing, Medan stresses to the minister the need to
    cut the link between Syria and Iran, or, more importantly,
    “how to recruit Syria to our side.” The problem, he said, is
    that Israeli leaders are getting signals from the United
    States “that Asad is a bad guy” and that Israel will anger
    the United States if it seeks to deal with Asad. “Some of us
    think Syria is a key player”; Israel needs to recognize this
    to pull it away from Iran. He stressed that he does not
    believe in the democratization of Syria that some USG
    officials call for — the result would be the Muslim
    Brotherhood. “Forget regime change, I don’t believe in it.”

    3. (C) Peretz, he said, is listening to the voices saying
    that Israel must do something with Syria. Peretz is not
    afraid personally of the fact that, in any dealings with
    Syria Israel will, at some point, have to discuss the Golan
    Heights. “He’s not rejecting it,” Medan said, but Israel is
    “very concerned about confronting the U.S. and about the
    personal feelings” (toward Syria) of the President…”

  • Azra

    talk, talk, talk, that is all. During Bush’s presidency when the real sanctions started, American trade with Iran went up 300% (according to BBC), so this is all nonsense. Do you believe for a moment that the European and American will allow Russia and China reap all the benefit of trades with Iran?? no way, they just go through a 3rd party and trade all the same. I have had no problems having money from Iran, and when I am in Iran, have had no problem buying any products from USA or UK, that I wish .. it just words…

  • ingo

    If the UK would like to buy its oil from Iran it will have to pay in Euro’s, Suhayl, thats the reality behind the Iran banks story. Far from shutting the banks, these will now go and trade from Frankfurt and elsewhere, no skin of their teeth, sanctions always work two ways and Iran has taken so much provocation, I’m quiet impressed how well they are standing up to pressure from the multiple goading thats been metted out. yesterday was another busy flight day over the ‘big’skies of Norfolk.

  • Azra

    I was in Iran few months ago, travelled everywhere in Modern, well maintained Fokker aircrafts (Dutch), shopped at the local Carrefour (French), met friends who worked in Citroen Assembly Plant in Tehran and few who worked for Norwegian and French Oil services companies, sent out proceeds of sale of property (no problems, via local exchange bureau), my brother ordered a machinery he needed from Canada, and was asked to provide a contact in Dubai! I despise the present government of Iran, but sanctions?? my foot!( the observation from my English hubby was that the number of people begging in the streets were a fraction of those in London!). We have load of brainless idiots running the country here, and rather trying to sort out the problems of this country are constantly trying to divert attention.. IT WILL NOT WORK!

  • Azra

    Will do Suhyal, I am due for a visit after Christmas, will see how things are after this fresh round of sanction!

  • Suhayl Saadi

    It’s odd, but I keep trying to post a single sentence post – no links, etc. – on the ‘Petrol on the Flames’ thread and it never seems to appear. Perhaps it is stuck in a moderation queue or something?

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