The law is not blind in this country – “joint enterprise” is used almost exclusively against young black men. But I can see no reason why the principle of joint enterpirse should not apply equally to those who set the policy under which people were rendered to be tortured in Libya, rather than merely to the security service functionaries who carried out the policy. In my reading of joint enterprise, if Ministers can show they were not involved in signing off individual rendition permissions, they should still be guilty for having participated in the behaviour that made such results likely, indeed inevitable.
I have given evidence to parliament that I was told, officially, as a British Ambassador, that Jack Straw had initiated a policy of using intelligence obtained by torture. I also testified before parliament that this was an unacknowledged policy which I was told, officially, should not be discussed in writing. The government has at no stage attempted to deny the truth of my account. The government did not submit evidence to the Parliamentary committee to claim that my account was untrue. The government has nowhere stated that my evidence is untrue; they prefer to rely on private media briefings to claim, untruly, that I am mad and alcoholic.
I shall tell the police that those involved in rendering persons to be Libya to be tortured were doing so in keeping with a War on Terror torture intelligence programme authorised by Jack Straw. It is no secret what I will say; here I am saying it.
Of course, I realise that the Crown Prosecution Service and the Met will,three years hence, claim there were no grounds to prosecute anybody. I am not that naive. But the fact of a formal police investigation will force some attention on whether or not my account is true. Ignoring the facts and just being rude about me is less easy in a criminal investigation.
Off Topic: PressTV removal from Sky (UK)
Craig, any views on the removal of PressTV from Sky(UK).
Insufferable chutzpah and lies:
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“Peres: Iran is the most morally corrupt nation on Earth”
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By JPOST.COM STAFF 01/28/2012
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Iran is the most morally corrupt nation on Earth, President Shimon Peres told CNN’s Richard Quest on Saturday.
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The president said on top of the nuclear danger presented by the Islamic Republic’s secretive nuclear program, the issue with Iran is a “matter of values.”
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Peres accused the regime in Tehran of hanging people without cause, sending arms and money for terror, cheating and lying.
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“Human rights, now, should be put in the center,” Peres said, responding to a question of Quest’s on how the international community should handle the Iranian threat. [my emphasis – N]
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Peres said the situation vis a vis the international community’s engagement with the Islamic Republic has changed since Europe sanctioned Iranian crude, and the US passed sanctions on Iran’s central bank.
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Still, Peres said “I would tell the Iranian people, save your own country. It’s in your hands.”
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He added that he “was not calling for a revolution.”
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http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=255505
“capital punishment”
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AmnestyUSA, 25 January:
‘Joe D’Ambrosio is free. He spent more than 20 years on death row, and almost two more years waiting while the state of Ohio – whose prosecutors had withheld key evidence from his defense – tried to go after him again. Finally, the U.S. Supreme Court closed the book on his case. Joe D’Ambrosio is the 140th person exonerated from U.S. death rows since 1973, and the 6th from Ohio …’
http://blog.amnestyusa.org/deathpenalty/ohio-produces-nations-140th-death-row-exoneration/
Nuid,
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“I would tell the Iranian people, save your own country. It’s in your hands.”
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We appreciate here that rhetoric embraces the seed of destruction; sown again regardless, a futile attempt to exploit a genuine ‘Arab Spring;’ witness Syria where foreign fighters salaried and armed by the West, divide and rule by fire.
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I say to them take a look at the fruits of your deception in Libya, in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Africa; the tests of laws to deprive liberty in Poland and murder in Iran of those whose knowledge is presumed a threat. These control psychopaths weave their crazy charades in a barren and sterile quest, a pursuit of world power. Motivated and slaved to the material.
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Like a fox hunt, such a nefarious game can only end in pain, suffering and torment of the innocent, families in mourning for those deprived of life and the joy of giving back the love held from those who nurture not destroy.
@Levantine – I don’t have any axe to grind wrt Ron Paul, but it seems to me that he could have distanced himself firmly from his old newsletters, and that would draw a line under it. But I am not sure he has recanted. I think his idea that market forces can determine what discriminations are permissible is hugely regressive however, and that this would engender a resurgent racism (and sexism and homophobia) if it ever came to pass.
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I agree with you that both sides of the corporate party divide will smear him or ignore him in an effort to get people back on the ‘two party horse’. Ditto media behaviour, which will have the same effect.
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However I don’t think his liberal/left supporters – and he does have some of those – are aware how truly frightening his economic policies actually are. He advocates a sort of economic anarchism in which charity and welfare is pushed to the church, and so is regressive both in terms of inequality and in terms of granting religion more de facto societal control. This is proper ‘Chigago Boys’ shock-and-awe policy; I suspect his foreign policies would save hundreds of thousands of innocent lives abroad, and condemn hundreds of thousands of lives at home to misery and destitution.
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On that basis – and I should stress that I do sympathise with the plight of the ordinary American – should we encourage a Ron Paul vote just so they limit the damage to their own country? If I were a US voter I’d really struggle on this one.
@Leo – have you a source for the claim that Duke “has now recanted that early period of his life [membership of the KKK]”? I should be interested to read more about that – thanks.
@ Jon
Here you go:
http://www.davidduke.com/general/dr-david-duke-open-letter-to-europe-and-the-world-who-i-am-and-what-i-believe_24973.html
good initiative Mr Murray. I understand now the need to replace this debate on the public place… the joint enterprise is coming back cause straw, hague, cameron and the millibands are the dogs of war… this looks like that the next war is Lebanon-Syria in February 2012… so to silence the Muslims or dissidents in the UK, torture was allowed to terrorize people only and create a climate of terror, that led to the July 2005 operations …
@ Michael Stephenson – Anti semitism or Black Propoganda? … Or it might just be mindless vandalism…
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Who did it hardly matters – personally I wouldn’t put it past Mr Plod on ‘special duties’.
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With Zionists and their neocon allies equating – and being allowed to equate – anti-zionism with anti-semitism – sectarianism is once again as inevitable as it is planned. It’s been successful enough against millions of law-abiding muslims. And – as ever – it suits more than one side.
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In my opinion, Zionism is – ultimately – the most anti-semitic force on the planet. Even more so when the wider meaning of semitic is considered.
Ban Ki Moon, the USUKIsNATO stooge (remember Libya) is once again doing his masters’ bidding.
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UN chief: Syrian president must end bloodshed
January 29, 2012
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UN chief Ban Ki-moon said Sunday that President Bashar al-Assad, whose regime had absolute control over Syria until a sustained and increasingly violent challenge to its rule, must end the killings in his country.
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“First and foremost, he must stop immediately the bloodshed,” Ban told reporters. “The Syrian leadership should take a decisive action at this time to stop this violence. All the violence must stop.”
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Assad’s opponents have sought to ramp up pressure on the international community for UN action after the Arab League withdrew its observers amid mounting violence.
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Ban called directly on Assad, saying that as leader he had an “important responsibility [to] resolve this situation [and] engage in political dialogue.”
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According to an AFP tally taken from reports by the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights and state media, at least 232 people – among them 147 civilians – have been killed since last Tuesday.
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That adds to the figure of more than 5,400 given by the United Nations last month since anti-regime protests erupted in mid-March last year.
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Ban was speaking in the Ethiopian capital, where he attended the opening of an African Union summit.
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-AFP/NOW Lebanon
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http://www.nowlebanon.com/NewsArticleDetails.aspx?ID=358364
Thanks for your reply Guano. Your assumption that there is no self deprivation and pain and suffering in Christianity is laudable but false.
Opus Dei castise themselves and the suffering of christ, an oppresive move by his fatgher, so they tell us, adhered to by Jesus, in tears and with doubt, shows us that the unreformed religions, catholicism especially, are stuck in the 14th century, no difference to the wahabi’s unreformed views.
I find nothing more re/depressive than the moral rectitude of policy makers and politicians who profess to be guided by religious thoughts and then forget about their poor and needy in favour of the rich and powerfull, a peculiar lack of confidence in their own judgement and actions.
As an atheist I’m strangely drawn to the peacefull, hence vulnerable, professions of the buddhist theology, holding up both cheeks, regardless, is principled and doomed, as it is not reciproked or understood by aggressors and those who work on the principle that might is right.
Oppression is a religous, just as a political/judicial trait, and a power theorem. Steven lUkes three dimensions of power make it clear that humanity is guided by external expressions of power, rather than focus on the power within, spiritual or otherwise. Religions have received far too much valor, for getting it wrong mainly, and oppressive religuous behaviour is almost always grounded within the realm of these power theorems.
Politics and rel;igion do not mingle well with each other, both are vying for our moral acceptance, both have gambled over and above what they are holding in their hands an unfortunate realtionship which does nothing to us the general public.
With this I bow out of this sundays philosophical thoughts, having my 30th. anniverssary. Me and my missis know each other for half of our lives, nowt to do with religion and/or marriage certificates, it was all down to us getting on with each other, talking about it, having it out, and making up, power resides with both of us. please forgive my typos.
@Leo, thanks very much. I suspect the relevant snippet is this:
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> My controversial, long-ago past. It is true that as a young man, over 35 years ago
> I was in a KKK organization in Louisiana. I forgive people in Europe and elsewhere
> for not knowing much about the Klan, but in America, the Klan was once a popular
> part of the community in the South with many elected Governors, Senators and others.
> Klan groups were completely independent and separate from one another, and had very
> different structures. Since the 1950s there has never been one Klan group but many
> very different Klans. The group I was a part of was strictly non-violent. In fact,
> not a single member of my organization was ever charged or even accused of any
> racially oriented crime. I repeat that. No one in my organization was ever accused
> of any violent crime. Even during that time long ago in my life, as now, I have
> always condemned any sort of violence! And I rightfully condemn any organization
> or any other group that commits or advocates any sort of violence in pursuit of
> their agenda.
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I feel dodgy enough visiting this man’s website, but for him then to “forgive” me for “not knowing much about the Klan” just beggars belief. I think it is well known that Klans were regarded as part of a respected custom in some quarters, but Duke doesn’t at all address whether he has abandoned the idea of white supremacy. Perhaps this has morphed into “everyone deserves to preserve their heritage”, which ultimately – still – means keeping America white.
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I am not convinced either that having a non-violent Klan would excuse membership of the overall KKK structure – membership amounts to condoning. Now, if he repudiates that, he must do explicitly and contritely. And “Mrs. Janet Williams” who lends him her unqualified support needs to be a lot more horrified about the violence the KKK used to represent, and how that sentiment lingers on.
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He is right about media bias, of course. The ‘expected perception’ of well-known individuals is reflected unconsciously by the Western media – a good recent example was a US news article about “Hugo Chavez, the firebrand dictator of Venezuala” (paraphrased). I do wish Duke’d stop banging on about the Zionist media though – as I say, the way in which bias enters the media is a lot more complicated, and there is no global hierarchy of Zionists controlling newspaper and television channel owners.
Ah, Mr. Duke has on his website an article from 2004 entitled “Facts About Black Crime in America”, and it is truly odious (www.davidduke.com/general/facts-about-black-crime-in-america_30.html). Here is his conclusion:
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> This comparison with Europe suggests that the United States has neither a
> unique “culture of violence” nor inadequate gun laws. It has a high rate
> of violent crime because it has a large number of violent black criminals.
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Where does one start with this tosh? Well, firstly the US constitution and high levels of societal nationalism and inwardness may mean that the US does indeed have a unique culture of violence. But I am in no way making a racialist statement in the same way as Duke – my reflection is on American society, which affects white, brown, black and orange people of all races and creeds. Duke’s position, however, is that black people are inherently criminal – and presumably the institutionalised system of racism that carries on to this day, with all its practical and psychological barriers – has nothing to do with it.
far from me to say that everything comes round in circles, but I had a great laugh this afternoon watching this fella. Listening to him, you can imagine another ‘dick waving session’ is about to happen. Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDkhzHQO7jY&feature=player_embedded
@Ingo, congratulations on your 30th anniversary!
Webster Tarpley has recently made a speech in which he said, in reply to Iran sanctions, that General Amano, the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, has not been acting as a responsible international civil servant – he’s been acting as a puppet of the United States, a voyeur or an advocate for whatever crazy strategic plans are going through the minds of people running the Obama administration.
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Tarpley singled out Israeli foreign minister Steinitz who has called for a blockade similar to the US blockage of Cuba in October 1962 during the Cuban missile crisis.
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http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-01-26/-massive-blockade-needed-to-stop-iran-threat-steinitz-says.html
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Tarpley said, “It is a good rule of thumb when somebody starts comparing the present situation to the Cuban missile crisis, it is time for negotiation.
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Obama and the American Congress treat negotiations with contempt, pooh-poohing Iran’s repeated requests for talks.
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This has prompted me to write to Prime Minister Putin to immediately engage in talks with China, drafting an appeal to founding members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation; [上海合作组织; Шанхайская организация сотрудничества] – to amend the framework to include mutual military security that will protect members, including senior observers awaiting consensus and ratification, against any strike carried out without UNSC approval.
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Such action will stall any attempt to exhume the type of sanctions that killed a million Iraqi children and caused a holocaust, a genocide in Iraq from severe malnutrition and deaths from treatable diseases. SCO members might well be urged to referring this international conspiracy, these planned acts of international aggression to the UN Security Council.
Well, this is not a new thing! The U.S. has done it, at least, from the Nuremberg Trials, where evidence was obtained by torture…to whit, the defendant’s families were threatened, and many even had their testicles mashed.
Hamid Karzai plans Taliban talks in Saudi Arabia between his government and the Taliban, opening another channel to the insurgents according to reports.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/9047694/Hamid-Karzai-plans-Taliban-talks-in-Saudi-Arabia.html
What price now for over ten years of death, injury and destruction on all sides, and for those who were subjected to rendition and torture?
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What thoughts from the warmongers, the propagandists and those who promoted the Wootton Bassett theatricals and those who would like us to ‘help the heroes’? Shame on all of them.
Mark Golding – Children Of Iraq,
Have you read the vile, racist comments in the Business weeks replies? The palpable hate baggers belief;
,
,
“Sandra” character’s comment;
Hey to all the Iranians out there pretending to be Americans concerned
about our unemployment rates and gas prices… what is it with you ?
some sort of a misguided “reverse psychology” to blind us to the concentrated malevolencethat you are…? what is it supposed to persuade us of… ignore the existential
threat that you and your brand of Islam present to world free liberal
democracies…? because if it is… your understanding of Western
(Judeo/Christian) psychology suffers from the same malignancy as your
sick devotion to your pedophile sadistic sodomite prophet…Muhmud…may
he be burned in pig excrement… the repulsive sadistic pedophile fornicator…
,
,
This apparently acceptable sentiment, has been there for 19 hours by now, and counting.
Tasers or stun guns and CS gas plus a spark = burns. Such a lovely country we are living in.
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Ex chief warns over safety of using Tasers with CS spray
Scotland Yard has confirmed a review of the weapon’s availability had been launched
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Related Stories
PSNI Taser incidents ‘justified’
Police car Taser plan considered
Police defend use of Tasers
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A former police chief who introduced Tasers into Britain has warned Scotland Yard to be “very careful” if plans to roll out more stun guns goes ahead.
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Peter Neyroud told BBC Inside Out London there was a heightened risk of people suffering burns as the force used CS spray which was flammable.
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More than half of the UK forces have shifted to pepper spray which is safe to use with the 50,000 volt Tasers.
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The force’s commissioner has said he wants Tasers in all police cars.
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Research carried out by BBC Inside Out London found there were seven incidents last year when Tasers were used at the same time as CS spray which have been referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16780217
Mary,
I believe the standards for classification of non-lethal weapons, are based on fatalities/deaths resulting from the application of the weapon to be less 17% to 28% ie less than two/three in ten. (I am pretty sue about this figure but need to corroborate it)
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Furthermore for weapons to let the “object” to return to its pre-use (of weapon)state.
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So long as only two/three out of ten die and so long as third degree burns are not going to leave scarring tissues, the outcomes are perfectly within the existing range of standards.
Mary, Mark
Clearly Hamad bin Khalifa Al-Than in control of the editorial of the al jazeera “news” results in referral to student protesters in Iran greeting the IAEA officials with banners and the photos of the dead nuclear adventists as; “militia”.
Mary at 8.57 – Good for you. Not much practical help I know – but I was thinking of you all yesterday and spread the word about the demo around my circle of contacts; there was a few minutes coverage on RT last night. Keep on fighting the good fight.
Hester
hesitated
and
rolled over
as instructed!
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Substitute deal probably on its way by courier promising goodies in lieu.
2.10am Rumours all over Twitter that Al Assad and family have fled Syria. Source appears to be Jerusalem Post, but awaiting confirmation.
Thank you Mr. Murray, but how can we realistically put an end to torture now that a seemingly unnoticed coup had taken place in the UK and US governments sometime last century with an end result of corrupt evil fascists in charge from top to bottom?
Thanks for that lovely poem Clark, only read it just now, had me wellin’ up.
@Mary. One Hester does not make for banking reform and it looks like the bonus bomb has been shoved into the realm of the international. Prestonspook seems tells us that these decisions are made in the US and that it is highly unlikely that the equation will change.
The issue is being chewed over by radio 5 live, they are now personalising what little moves they have made and blow it out of proportion, i.e. ‘look how well we are doing’… its sickening to listen to.
@ Jon
In no way am I defending Duke or anyone else. I was just recording my relief that we were now being exposed to a viewpoint that is essentially muffled by the mainstream press. While these sentiments regarding, for example, the role of Israel and zionist zealots in war propagation may have many adherents (here for example), few have obtained much traction. Duke, by contrast, has millions of adherents – as evidenced by some of his videos with 1,000,000 views and 95% approval rating. To my mind, this should be harnessed and propagated by any serious anti-war movement regardless of his past or his opinion on other subjects.
Leo, I agree!
FYI.
A daily review in English of the four Hebrew papers with an emphasis on stories related to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. It includes: front page headlines, a news summary of the key stories related to the conflict and a list of links to all the conflict related items and commentaries.
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It’s called News Nosh and you can subscribe to it for free! It’s commissioned by Americans for Peace Now. Sign up here: http://www.peacenow.org/nosh.html
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That was from an e-mail just in. I would dispute use of the term ‘conflict’. It is an Occupation and the resistance against it.