Meryl Streep took best actress award at the Golden Globes for The Iron Lady. There has been much media speculation about the motivation for Alex Salmond choosing Autumn 2014 for the independence referendum, largely centring around Bannockburn. Personally I can see the referendum coinciding brilliantly with Margaret Thatcher’s state funeral in London. That really would clinch it.
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You made me laugh (properly)!
Usually you make me laugh nervously.
A balance sheet can not be used to decide Scottish Independence. The most important things in our life have no scientific measure or monetary value. Pride, love, loyalty, trust, feeling, friendship, joy, peace, patriotism, Freedom…… If you see patriotism as a manipulative thing or if you think it is spelled PAYtriotism it means nothing. Does pure love of self government live in a few hearts? ?
In 1916 Ireland most people would not have voted for independence. A few saw that only a blood sacrifice would put in train a retaliation that would lead to freedom that they thought was worth their lives. The English retaliation lead to a large vote in 1918 against unionism. Ireland had a Unionist merchant, upper-class, and middleclass that wanted material wealth before pride. And a cowed ‘working class’ that was hungry. They had to be forced to change. Without force we would not be free. This was not democratic. Was it worth it?. By which standard?. We don’t care. Now the vast majority would never vote to return to British overall authority. The sheer exuberance of independence is great. When I see that Flag abroad my heart soars. Worth it? YES. Also despite what you hear we have a good life here. It is in OUR hands. And the English make better neighbours than masters.
This will be difficult now in Scotland with your ties. As we had to, you have to persuade more than your fair share of colonisers with a large group of Unionists, North English, lethargy, colonised people who have been taught to feel they and their culture are inferior, momentum, inadequate people who need to be subjects, fear, insecurity, a pacified people who are trained to feel unsure on their own , the usual knaves and traitors (“I am opposed to being independent “!!!) and those waiting to be bought,ie prostitutes. Your newspapers seem to be largely anti Scottish independence. Quite a few may prefer to be comfortable, kept, poodles. The English are cunning, manipulative, colonisers. They have been on your case for a long time, know all the tricks,and it would be amazing if they had not succeeded. They will threaten, ridicule, divide, separate, control the media, and dangerously flatter as they get more desperate. If it is in England’s interest it is probably not in yours. Would they submit to a ruling Scottish King?. An arrogant England is happy with domesticated Scotties and Corgi’s. Your negotiations will be more successful if you are independent.
Are you not confident that you could avoid the mistakes we made and live better lives with better values than now?.
If England thinks they can be stronger with Scotland behind them then how much stronger will they be as free nations standing shoulder to shoulder as free people. Are they going to frighten or punish you for wanting to be free?. They are afraid of being insignificant on their own and need you. You can help more as free people. Nations far away all crave freedom. Why not Scotland nearby?. If you are not independent you are dependent. Good friends don’t want to dominate with a smothering embrace. How did you feel when you saw an Irish head of state meet the English/British head as equals with their own flags flying?
If Scottish spirit is buried it will be buried alive. Artists, Poets, thinkers, Leaders and leaven like Alex Salmond and Craig Murray, and brave people will think the unthinkable with renewed vigour. They will have pressure applied to them. Give them constant support. You have a harder job than Ireland had. Seeds must be sown and nourished. Nothing will just happen. Which is more important – true freedom or manipulated democracy ?. If you had a fully separate Scotland how many would vote to go back under the Queen to have decisions made for them. ? You also must be cunning, persevere and mature as a grown up nation with a visceral need for freedom. Eyes must be raised from the trough to a National identity and destiny.
If the Scots have been fully, shamefully, pacified and domesticated I am sorry for you.
Vote and talk strong for Scotland. Get more activists and votes out and shame the cowards.
‘Give me ten stout-hearted men …and Ill soon give you ten thousand more’,
We can all be better as independent proud respectful neighbours in the WISE group (Wales, Ireland, Scotland, England).
I wish you great success as a fully mature independent respected neighbour of England and Ireland (and Wales)
Quite so, John Stack. Well said, Sir and/or Madam …. [Well, you just never know these days who you are having a chat with, do you? . Not immediately, anyway.]
http://brianwhelan.net/post/7575919321/the-iron-lady-thatchers-screws-obit
News of the World : The Iron Lady’s Orbituary!
Thatchers “state” funeral? Surely in deference to her political ideal that should be privatised,,,,,,,
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But in keeping with her lifelong ethics I would offer the following suggestion,,,,,,,,,,
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A pyramid should be erected in Grantham as a memorial to the Iron Lady, the free labour for which could be provided by the workfare scheme, what better testament to stand for the next few thousand years of the society she played such a big part in engineering. Then finally in keeping with tradition of a Pharoah’s servants to be buried with them, it would be hugely disrespectful if Cameron, Brown and Blair et al were not bricked up with her.
@John Stack – thank you so much. I had thought that as a Scot with English relatives I was free to define my cultural identity as being wider and more inclusive than just centering around one particular part of the British isles. I had thought that my personal heritage included that of my English forebears as much as my Scottish ones, and even those from the Irish line on my mother’s side. But thanks to you, I can see that these sentiments are symptoms of a shameful pacification and domestication fit only to be expunged in order that the purity of my Scottishness can fully flower.
Glad to get that sorted out.
Craig, you’re admirable. Strong. Independent. Cool. We love you. But we wonder why the fuck you pretend to be Scottish.
Privatise Thatcher’s funeral?
https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/18914
Mind you, if the labour leadership, from Kinnock onwards had fought as hard for their class as the old milk snatcher did for hers, we might be living in a very different society now.
Billy,
Like so many of us, I am ethnically very mixed – Scots/Italian/Corsican/English/Irish/Dutch (quite possibly Jewish Dutch). But I think independence will be good for Scotland, and good for the UK in challenging the neo-imperialist policy and its drivers. In fact I don’t think anything but the break up of the UK can do that.
I saw the film a few days ago at a local cinema and I thought Meryl Streep’s performance as an actress was outstanding. Very few actors are so good that one forgets them altogether. It happened when I saw Martin Landau plahying Bela Lugosi in “Ed Wood”. Meryl Streep’s portrayal was so powerful that it dispelled all thoughts of the actress itself from the mind. I reckon she deserves a BAFTA, Oscar and honorary knighthood (the kind they give to ladies) all rolled into one!
Mrs T. got many things right and that prevented her from listening to sensible advice, particularly about banking and taxation.
She created the idea that banks create money, whereas they actually add a second layer of taxation in the form of interest.
She created the illusion of market forces while operating the market forces surreptitiously with a fairly heavy hand in the direction that suited government.
The present batch of Tories constantly repeat these worn out cliches, which in no way address the realities of the modern world. The challenge of today is how this country can live within its means by fair trade without stealing stuff by war.
There isn’t a plan for a plan for a plan for a plan to do this.
So in the words of Jesus pbuh ‘let the dead bury their dead’ when the time comes.
Corrected sentences: “..It happened when I saw Martin Landau playing Bela Lugosi in “Ed Wood”. Meryl Streep’s portrayal was so powerful that it dispelled all thoughts of the actress herself from the mind…”
“There has been much media speculation about the motivation for Alex Salmond choosing Autumn 2014 for the independence referendum”
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Speculate no more. Salmond knows as the powers that rule us know, by Autumn 2014 the UK will be WELL into total financial meltdown!, God alone knows what will be going on by then, the scots will be much more inclined to vote for independence (if given the chance ???).
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/2012/01/12/scotland-quebec-referendums/#comment-9735
Craig,
Indeed timing is everything, alas Mrs. T will not be kicking her clogs yet, after all we all know; “devil looks after its own. The lady who was not for turning, has left quite a lot of mess in her wake, and surely she needs to hang around to see the fruits of her success; absolute rich lording over the abject poor.
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Salmond can cross swords with the best of them, he already had threatened to order the Scottish police to intervene and stop the referendum, if it was not to his liking.
Mike Cobley and uncle Tom and all. Hi,
Being born in Scotland does not make you a proud true Scot. You seem to define yourself as Unionist or British. Craig by his choices has more right to the title . Irish freedom was spearheaded by Patrick Pearse whose father was protestant English who choose freedom for Ireland. Similarly in America. It is choice of loyalty not accident of birth. Kennedy “Ich bin ein Berliner” showed his desire for Berlins freedom. Do you have a passionate desire for Scottish independence ? Are you a Scot ?. Same answer.
Very ironically Thatcher did more than anybody to undermine the UK. It is her legacy and the policies of her surrogates Major/Blair/Brown/Cameron that have pissed the Scots off so much for decades. She started it. I still remember being a guinea pig for the Poll Tax. I always will.
Craig,
“But I think independence will be good for Scotland, and good for the UK in challenging the neo-imperialist policy and its drivers. In fact I don’t think anything but the break up of the UK can do that.”
How exactly would that work? Do you really think the politicians in Edinburgh are any more open, honest or democratic or any less self serving than those in London? Certainly not Salmond judging by the games he is playing. I agree with most of your intentions but the fuss over an Independent Scotland is simply a means to increase the SNPs own power.
Wasn’t there something in the news recently about the tactic of “divide and rule”?
“Mrs. T”
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Didn`t some of her own cabinet say that they thought she was insane while she was prime minister, I remember when she thought she was the Queen!. Of course the real clinchers were when she ordered the sinking of Belgrano and burning all that north sea gas off into the atmosphere instead of storing it like the Norwegians did with theirs, all done in order to give tax cuts to get re-elected, we could do with that north sea gas now, would have lasted the UK 20/25 years, instead we are now paying high prices to the Norwegians (amoung others) to buy their stored north sea gas. She never at anytime gave one seconds thought to the people off the UK, she served the top 10%, and she served them well.
Timing is all. Well Clegg stiffened his sinews today and spoke out. Must have narked Liberman’s deputy Ayalon who is visiting and also Palmor, see below.
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UK’s Clegg says Israeli settlements ‘vandalism’
By DAVID STRINGER, Associated Press – 27 minutes ago
LONDON (AP) — Britain’s deputy prime minister accused Israel on Monday of carrying out “deliberate vandalism” by continuing to build settlements on land the Palestinians hope will form part of a future state.
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In an escalation of Britain’s previous condemnations of Israeli construction, Nick Clegg warned that continued settlement building is jeopardizing prospects for a peace deal.
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“Once you’ve placed physical facts on the ground that makes it impossible to deliver something that everyone has for years agreed is the ultimate destination. … It is an act of deliberate vandalism to the basic premise on which negotiations have taken place for years and years and years,” Clegg said, referring to settlement construction.
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Clegg was speaking alongside Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who also was holding talks in London with Prime Minister David Cameron and Foreign Secretary William Hague — both of whom have previously expressed concern about settlements.
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“The continued existence of illegal settlements risks making facts on the ground such that a two-state solution becomes unviable,” Clegg said.
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He said that continued construction would “do nothing to safeguard the security of Israel itself, or of Israeli citizens.”
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“This is exactly what we wanted to hear officially from the government of the United Kingdom,” Abbas told reporters, speaking through a translator.
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Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said Clegg’s choice of language would do little to help attempts to restart peace talks. “It would be much better to contribute to peace by encouraging the fragile revival of Israeli-Palestinian talks rather than engaging in gratuitous bashing,” Palmor said.
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Cameron, who met later with Abbas at his official Downing Street residence, warned that time is “running out for the two-state solution unless we can push forward now.”
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Israeli-Palestinian peace talks stalled in 2009 over the issue of Israeli settlement construction in the West Bank and east Jerusalem, areas that Israel captured from Jordan in the 1967 war. It is territory the Palestinians envision as part of their future state.
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Negotiators from the two sides began meeting again in Jordan on Jan.3 in the hope of restarting substantive talks, but disagreements have already surfaced over a deadline for progress on initial discussions.
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“We are optimistic about those negotiations and at the same time we hope that there will be something tangible as a result of these negotiations,” Abbas said. “Of course, time is of the essence — there must be speed, we must be fast in achieving those things because the settlements and the whole thing will go on.”
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The Palestinians insist they won’t continue talks unless Israel stops building in the West Bank and east Jerusalem. Israel has said the issue of settlements will be solved once there are agreed-upon borders.
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“Settlements have to stop in order for us to be able to continue our negotiations, to come to some sort of solution, and a solution which will encompass the vision of the Palestinian state to come in the future,” Abbas said.
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In December, European members of the U.N. Security Council said that Israel’s acceleration of construction work had sent “a devastating message” and called for an immediate halt.
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Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s office has previously insisted the country is exercising “great restraint” in construction.
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Associated Press writer Ian Deitch in Jerusalem contributed to this report
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ihc7ianQMKjbrD_qmGobCAX7vBwA?docId=27dea5fbf8114de19377f2e738147960
Cameron criticised this film coming out before Thatcher’s death.
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I quite agree with him. If she was already dead, we’d know the film had a happy ending!
” If she was already dead, we’d know the film had a happy ending!”
The Ghost of Pinochet weeps….
@Mike Cobley
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You need to retreat about ten steps from the wall in order to appreciate the painting. You’re the only Nationalist – of your own very negative definition – posting here.
Hey Ben – Thatcher’s old pal Pinochet had the grace to kick off on Human Rights Day, 2006. I hope Thatcher could mark some event quite soon herself in the same fashion, such as the anniversary of the start of the miner’s strike.
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What would be a truly generous gesture, is if old warmongers such as Kissinger, Thatcher, Bush senior, Tebbit and particularly Cheney would all draw their last on the same day. That would be a date for many generations to cherish.
“That would be a date for many generations to cherish.”
I’d be careful about that, Glenn. You never know who would rise up in their stead.
‘The Devil you know’,,,you know
btw. Ever met your namesake?
http://www.salon.com/writer/glenn_greenwald/
O/T Be very afraid. Obomber loses his cool and takes it out on a door.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWuBpu-LigU&feature=share
Oh no, John Stack, oh no! – so if I’m not pro-independence I must be….anti-Scottish! Next up, you’ll be asking me why I hate Scotland so much. Y’know, I might have let yr ethnic filtering observation pass were it not for the Uncle Tom comment: suffice to say that you’re not the first to deploy that ad hominem munition and probably wont be the last.
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And as for comparing Scotland to the plight of Berliners/east germans during the Soviet era … I believe that’s what’s known as hyperbole. Scotland is not Kosovo, or Chechnya, or Tibet and to make the comparison is, frankly, insulting to those who within living memory have suffered terrible oppression.
Don’t think so, Mary – notice that large double-microphone in the final seconds of the clip, that wasn’t there during the press briefing earlier? It’s a fake.
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Ben: wrt Greenwold, Afraid not! But I’ve often been mistaken.
How low can society sink?
Monday 16 January 2012
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The day Margaret Thatcher drove away from Downing Street I had returned from Iraq.
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After a 27-hour bus journey across the desert from Baghdad to Amman (no flights allowed because of the embargo) and a six-hour flight from Amman to Heathrow, I headed straight for Downing Street.
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Grubby, exhausted and clutching luggage, I was in time to see her drive away.
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A journalist from the Times approached me and asked why I was there.
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“It is like going to the funeral of one’s worst enemy, not to mourn but to ensure they are really dead,” I replied.
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That is where I stand on Thatcher’s woeful legacy, destruction of jobs, pride and society.
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That said, the debate over costs of her funeral, an ailing, elderly, living lady, shames us all.
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It has to be wondered sometimes how low this society, which, ironically, she declared dead, really can sink.
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It has certainly returned to bite her in a sick and twisted way.
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Felicity Arbuthnot
London E9
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http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news/content/view/full/114224
”Personally I can see the referendum coinciding brilliantly with Margaret Thatcher’s state funeral in London”
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‘The Iron Lady’ will go to DVD in a few weeks and then be in Poundland a few weeks later along side ‘Halloween Horror Attack’ !
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”Spitting Image (Thatcher & Hitler) ” – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-jT8NOU1xM&feature=related
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Now, that is art!
I cannot stand watching THAT FACE glide past on the sides of buses. The reality was (and is) bad enough. Now we have to swallow the cinematic fiction too. Yes, Streep is a good actor, though not among my personal favourites – something to do with her style often irritates me. I cannot judge this film, since I haven’t see it. I will watch the film when it comes out on dvd. On second thoughts, maybe I won’t. It exists. I know the story. And that’s enough. Thatcher screwed-up this country and I will never forgive her. Her continuing ability to evoke powerful emotions may be a testament to her numinous power. But I see her entity more as a warning to (to loan from The Moody Blues) our children’s children’s children: “Behave, or Bad Thatch Witch will come and get you!” Now, if it’d been a horror film, I might have gone to see it…