The Mail on Sunday is doing a very good job on the odious Jack Straw’s involvement in torture and persecution. I think that at last the truth has entered the established narrative. There is a little box in the report about my own evidence to Scotland Yard. I will type it out here as the Mail’s box format here is not internet searchable:
“Torture” Evidence Handed to the Yard
Further pressure was piled on Jack Straw last night over the “rendition” of Libyan dissident Abdel Hakim Belhadj after sensitive documents were handed to Scotland tard detectives.
Craig Murray, former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan, passed the documents to police as part of the inquiry into the behaviour of Ministers and intelligence officials over the detention of Mr Belhadj in Bangkok in March 2004.
The opponent of Colonel Gadaffi was flown to Tripoli, where he claims he was tortured.
Mr Straw, who was Foreign Secretary at the time, has denied ever condoning the use of torture to extract information.
But the documents appear to cast doubt on that position.
One memo, headed “Uzbekistan: Intelligence Possibly Obtained Under Torture” contains minutes of a meeting Mr Murray held with senior Foreign and Commonwealth officials on March 8, 2003 to discuss his concern that the UK could be in breach of international law by possessing intelligence obtained by torture.
The minute, dated March 10 2003, quoted Linda Duffield, then the FCO’s Director of Wider Europe, apparently justifying the use of such material as part of the fight against terrorism.
A second memo, dated March 14 2003, and written by Simon McDonald – the Straw’s principal Private Secretary – to Ms Duffield says Straw has read the minutes and “agrees that you handled this very well”.
Mr Murray is understood to have told police that during Mr Straw’s time at the FCO diplomats were told to only refer to the policy on torture verbally.
Mr Murray said last night “My evidence stated that Jack Straw introduced a policy of allowing evidence obtained by torture to be used. I also told them that written evidence had been destrpyed, and we were told to not commit details into writing.”
There is a slight misquote in the above. It should say Jack Straw introduced a policy of allowing intelligence obtained by torture, not evidence. In fact it was specifically stated such intelligence would not be produced as evidence in court (people were imprisoned without charge or rendered instead). The instruction not to put things in writing was given to me personally, I don’t know if others were told the same. As I was the only one protesting, perhaps not.
These links are to the documents in question.
The first two were obtained by Freedom of Information Act request. Details of the CIA’s colllusion with the Karimiv regime’s torturers have been redacted by the FCO. Last week Jack Straw came out and argued strongly for the effective abolition of the Freedom of Information Act. Now there is a coincidence for you.
Wonder that Baldry has any time left to sit in his accustomed place on the green benches.
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http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/tony_baldry/banbury#register
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Doing nicely.
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Went to Israel under cover and sponsorpship of Christian Aid. So that’s alright then.
Uzbek,
You said this: “Strategy of fighting evil with another (and probably more evil) evil has proven faulty.”
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‘Evil’ seems to be a concept traditional religion postulates is a separate force in the universe. Yet to me these arguments are illusionary.
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Working with children exposed to terror, severe pain and acute deprivation often find that that numbing their feelings is their only protection against acute suffering. Likewise children who are confused in conflict develop diametric emotions. Children cannot cope with this and numbness is their protection, even their salvation. Numbness becomes second nature.
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I believe this infantile numbness and insensitivity towards pain in turn means equal numbness and insensitivity toward others. In some small way, evil is born.
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Thus to me, those thousands of children smashed by missiles in Iraq, those splintered by drones in Pakistan and Afghanistan and those made mincemeat of by bombs in Gaza, have had their empathy and compassion annihilated, killed.
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This numbness or insensitivity is like a contagium and becomes endemic.
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We can and I believe again, we must draw the line.
Was funny to watch yesterday how J Paxman was questioning Vince Cable, and particularly when Pax was re-asking Cable whether or not he thought that Barclays CEO was overpaid. What a wonderful TV show is this Newsnight.
Have you noticed Komodo that any tricky question to Cameron and his clique is instantly kicked nto the long grass by returning to what happened under NuLabour? Like an old broken record. Philip Hammond was doing it again this morning when announcing their volte face on the planes for the carriers.
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Should be interesting later when Coulson crops up on the latest act in the Leveson theatrical.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/leveson-inquiry/9256482/Andy-Coulson-at-the-Leveson-Inquiry-live.html
From 2011 to date, according to theyworkforyou.com, Mr. Baldry has worked 319 hours for employers other than the taxpayer (that’s just shy of 8 40-hour weeks), and trousered £274,400 for his pains. His most lucrative source of income is still Zaiwalla (former partner, apparently, £173K: central to some previous serious enquiries re. Mr. Baldry’s lobbying acivities (alleged)), but the intriguing New Law Centre in Russia (hard to trace: £17.5K) looks like a promising rival to Woburn Energy plc, of which he is Independent Non-Executive Deputy Chairman (£33.3K) for his energy.
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Since Mr Baldry -neglecting trips to Israel, India etc as the guest of his other admirers- is only working a 44-week year on behalf of his constituents and party, and might be said to be comfortably off even if he is paying tax here – of course he is – might there not be a case for cutting his MP’s salary by a fifth? Mr. Speaker? Mr. Speaker? He won’t catch my eye for some reason…
Nor does theyworkforyou have a complete list of Baldry’s interests. More later on this perhaps.
Mark Golding
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Yes, the line must be drawn. But shall it be drawn by ignoring rights and freedom of others? Must we sacrifice left hand to save right?
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Must we ignore rights violation in Russia and embrace Putin and his KGB gang just because he is poking US? Must we turn Churchill/Roosevelt who embraced Stalin just to encourage him to sacrifice soviet lives to save ‘FREEDOM’ in Europe? Must we now encourage all those poking US but at the same time violate rights of their own citizens to continue to do so and just keep poking US?
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I am very sorry to say this, but in future I see many more lives lost as zero-sum politics is set to return to the world stage. The only thing we can do is stick to the principles. Taking sides is not going to help to the victims but only to oppressors.
Oh Dear http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/05/09/intel-dump-may-9-2012/
Mark Golding
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And also to add that Evil of Putin and gang and most of other former soviet systems is not an illusion. You just need to live in former USSR to understand it. Not to travel there as a tourist and not only to large cities. Although, even short travel to Moscow or Tashkent will help you to understand that Evil exists not only in Bible but also in real time.
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And this Evil is no better than that which is killing innocent people including women and children in Iraq and elsewhere.
I see that Aznar, who colluded with Bush and Blair at their meet in the Azores before the launch of Shock and Awe on Iraq, landed himself a job with Murdoch. Despicable.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Mar%C3%ADa_Aznar
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After 2004
After leaving office on 17 April 2004 he presided over the FAES think tank, which is associated with the PP. After a 2005 reform, promoted by the current Prime Minister of Spain Rodríguez Zapatero, former prime ministers were admitted into the Spanish Council of State, a position from which he later resigned.
Aznar was appointed Distinguished Scholar in the Practice of Global Leadership at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C. in April 2004. In this position, he teaches two seminars per semester on contemporary European politics and trans-Atlantic relationships in the Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service. Additionally, he teaches a course on political leadership, convened by Professor Carol Lancaster, with former Polish President Kwasniewski. Aznar leads public dialogues on pressing contemporary concerns in collaboration with other members of the faculty; he was awarded an honorary degree at Universidad Francisco Marroquin.
In 2007, Aznar was appointed to the advisory board of Centaurus Capital, a London based hedge fund,[17] an appointment which proved to be short-lived. In 2008, he was appointed to the Board of Directors of News Corporation, the media conglomerate of Rupert Murdoch.[18] He is also member of the European Advisory Panel of The European Business Awards and the European Council on Tolerance and Reconciliation.
Aznar is a member of the Club of Madrid.[19] He is also a Member of the Global Leadership Foundation, an organization which works to promote good governance around the world.[20]
Aznar was also one of the signatories and promoters of the Prague Charter.[21]
In 2010 founded the Friends of Israel Initiative.
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FOII is headquartered in Madrid,[10] but also has a British arm registered as a charity.[11]
Friends of Israel Initiative has been funded by a dozen private donors from Spain, America, Israel, France, Italy and Britain. It has a working budget of almost £1 million a year.[12]
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The latter did not amount to much when you click on the Charity Commission link on the Wiki page.
The attention seeker means business. The Chief Constable of Cumbria is involved.
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‘But even if celebrities themselves don’t call the cops on their trolls, then there are often many willing to do so on their behalf. While Mensch thought her abusers had done nothing illegal, it has been announced that police will be taking her Twitter trolls to court.’ spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/12423/
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http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/46631/louise-mensch-twitter-trolls-face-prosecution-says-police-chief
What a lot of old friends there are here, Mary. Even Robert Halfon and Bill Kristol. Good company for a large lizard with poisonous spit. Think I may hang around and wait for a party.
http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/Friends_of_Israel_Initiative
What truly puzzles me is that however many friends-of-israel cells are formed, it’s always the same friends. How many clubs punting exactly the same objective do they need to be members of?
Fedup, you’re in danger of extending “Zionist” to incorporate anything outside of the Fedup Weltanschauung. I haven’t harped on about the story, I made two references to it. Pakistan is a great country and it’s a shame it’s always in the news for the wrong reasons. I’ve spent a lot of time there and I can honestly say there are few places I’ve enjoyed more. Pakistan zindabad! However, ask me whether I think mass-immigration of Pakistanis to Britain is a good idea and I would have to say no. Much as I respect Pakistani culture, I don’t think it’s compatible with ours. Very few British-Pakistanis would do what those men have done, but a large number of them view “white girls” as sluts and hold our way of life in absolute contempt. About the only things in this country they respect are our public schools and universities – the rest can go to hell as far as they’re concerned. They are marginalized and disenfranchised through no fault of our own.
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It’ s worrying that the police appear to have ignored earlier warnings for fear of “inflaming” anti-Muslim sentiment, but I can’t say I’m surprised. I wonder, would you brush it under the carpet too, to avoid the perceived victimization of a community that at times even finds itself somewhat perplexed by the lengths we are prepared to go not to upset it? Listening to Five-Live, the hand-wringing was unbearable. Ironically, it was the Pakistani guest who was most critical of the Pakistani community while the right-on (white, middle-class) BBC types were desperate to see victimization of Muslims. Perpetual scaremongering about the far-right is used to stifle debate on immigration when in reality the far-right is unlikely ever to score more than a few percent at general elections here, because the electorate has traditionally avoided extremes and will continue to do so unless it is pushed.
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I thought the glaring hypocrisy in the Brendan O’Neil article was mildly amusing, that’s all. Don’t read too much into it. The double-standard on this blog is that while it’s open season on Jews, any criticism of Muslims is met with po-faced disapproval. But what I really can’t fathom about Craig Murray and so many of the commenters here is that while they (rightly) perceive an unrepresentative, self-serving political and financial elite that does not serve the people’s interests, they can’t seem to recognize that it is this same elite which has foisted mass-immigration on a host population which never asked for it and does not want it. No country on earth should be expected to tolerate the demographic change we have seen in this country. This is your blind-spot and by supporting it you place yourselves on the side of globalists who want to be able to transfer labour around the world as easily as they transfer their wealth. These are people who care nothing for this country and would have the entire population of Bangladesh transferred to Britain if only they could get away with it. It is they who are causing the divisions, fedup, and there will be no “kristallnach redux” if the left would only wise up to what is going on and understand that millions of ordinary, tolerant Britons have had enough of being treated as racists for voicing perfectly legitimate concerns about immigration. By arguing vehemently for the assimilation of minorities already here and equally vehemently against further mass-immigration on the basis that it will lead to irreparable divisions and the rise of extremism, the left can take the argument right out of the hands of the far-right. If it fails to do so I can only conclude that the left has an ulterior motive in wishing to see the present situation continue.
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(P.S., I accept Jon’s request and hope you will do so too next time you’re passing by.)
“The double-standard on this blog is that while it’s open season on Jews, any criticism of Muslims is met with po-faced disapproval.”
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Actaully, there isn’t much criticism of Jews here. There’s a lot of criticism of Israel, and of US/UK policy towards it. Which smack of double standards too.
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Inevitably caught up in this are those self-avowed Zionists (means they believe in the god-given right of an exclusively Jewish state to do exactly as it pleases) who incessantly promote the (perceived) special rights of Israel and its supporters among the Jewish population.
Which consists almost exclusively of immigrants and their not-too-distant descendants. To whose presence we should be objecting, if I read you right.
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And if you want to see Muslims demonised, join this lot. They do it all the time, using similar arguments to your own. My old chum Glen Jenvey’s a British Asian, ffs. He does it even better:
http://pulsemedia.org/2010/07/20/friends-of-israel-initiative-the-neoconservatives-eastern-front/
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Still, all points of view are welcome on this blog, so hello.
It’s not really surprising that Mr Murray seems to have deserted his own blog. Somehow, perhaps inadvertently, he seems to have attracted a collective of paranoid, anti-semitic, conspiracy theorists.
Just scroll up and ask yourself what the point of all this is…..
The amount of daily-mail links is in itself quite frightening and the masonic-handshake bullshit is something that is so random that it is frightening.
There are ways to change the world but venting in the way you do is especially reductive in that you come across as a bunch of freaks….
Best wishes,
James
Armchair warriers spewing-up what someone else wrote. Pathetic. Pathetic fools who believe they can force change from their armchair posting useless bullshit. The British government is extremely worried. Super heroes are a work of fiction as are good guys.
The Daily Mail is largely insane, I grant you, but it’s no friend of Murdoch, or, as far as I can see, Cameron. It is capable of good journalism on occasion.
You have read – or at least skimmed – the posts by conspiracy theorists. Any chance of you reading the other ones? Or would you like to generalise us out of your consciousness?
I concur Komodo, it’s the little terror state we object to which all Jews have a right to enter (making aliyah) and inhabit. The displaced Palestinians have no such rights.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliyah
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I see that the trolls have been parachuted in.
Uzbek,
“And this Evil is no better than that which is killing innocent people including women and children in Iraq and elsewhere.”
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All of us can clearly examine national conduct and find a catalogue or pattern of stark horrors. I believe that neither you or I can judge those horrors without becoming a bigot. Disinformation works like a charm and even taking a critical and rational look based on facts it would be a negative stance to produce a ‘league table’ of ‘evil’ based on national atrocities.
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What is clear is we live in a 21st century transnational fascism and a likely new order at the end of the age of oil. It is here I think our positive interests and thoughts could converge so I ask you to play ball with me while I examine how the US and Britain have engineered conflicts behind the scene.
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Most are aware that in 1997 Zbigniew Brzezinski laid a foundation with his book, ‘The Grand Chessboard:American Primary and Its Geostrategic Imperatives’ a vivid glimpse of future world events. At that time Russia had been dead for 6 years but still remained a threat or block to US economic and military will.
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Brzezinski knew it was Russia’s backyard that was key to controlling the entire globe. He gave us at least one reason why the US supported the Taliban and indirectly al Qaeda, the axiological seed of terror that grew radical Islamic fundamentalists. (Middle East Policy Council)
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The US through USAID and the University of Nebraska spent $millions on textbooks filled with violent images and militant Islamic teachings. (Paul Thompson)
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American & British minds were on energy issues as indicated by Brzezinski’s maps. CIA & MI6 covert operatives were on the payrolls of oil companies posing as geologists and oil experts.(Bruce Nelan & ‘Rob’ thankyou) – Russia was looted of $1.5 trillion forcing it to put its military hardware on the black market and accept IMF bail-out, the ‘kiss of death’ for any country.
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Childless Americans started adopting beautiful Russian children from families who could not feed them and American perverts were at the end of Red Square using children as young as 14yrs for sex.
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Now the ‘War on Terror’ was ensconced, the WTC attacks and propaganda accomplished and made good. And that is just the way the empire wanted… Soon Britain would reaffirm its promise from Blair and 7/7 would murder 52 people and injure 400 more.
Just Googled “friends of israel”
Ten entries on the first page, eight of which were from different organisations with all or part of the key phrase in their titles.
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Then I Googled “enemies of israel”.
Ten entries on the first page, of which ten were critical of Israel’s (various, alleged) enemies.
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Yup, the web is rife with antisemitism.
Hello Komodo,
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An interesting thesis, but you know how Google search terms work! There is no “Enemies of Israel” organization. Searching “enemies of Israel” will bring up references to, er, enemies of Israel.
He has not deserted but is overseas at the moment…
I was reminded in a courteous way by ‘Techicolour’ that Israel is not Judaism and double whammy’ed by ‘LFSL’s’ infamous bon mot ‘the joooos dunnit’.
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I agree with ‘Komodo’ in that valid questions in the media are deflected or intentionally ignored by shame-based rhetoric and dishonestly recast as anti-Semitism. Yet Arabs and Jews are both called ‘Semitic’ peoples and more importantly ‘anti-Semitism’ is useless in any discussion of Israeli domestic and international affairs. To talk of Israeli or American citizens as one monolithic crowd is of course very unfair. Israel has a sizeable antiwar movement that opposed the Iraq war. To me it is essential therefore to examine the actions of governments, in particular their covert operations which back-fire and their agent provocateurs posing as al-Qaeda operatives.
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To press the point, clear in my mind are the words of ‘dead alive’ PM and war criminal (Sabra, Shatilla, Jenin, Nablus) Ariel Sharon, who urged the US to begin the invasion of Iraq as soon as possible saying, ‘Any postponement of an attack on Iraq at this stage will serve no purpose. (AP August 16th 2002
hello Mark, what a coincidence.
I was moved by Nuid/Dreoilin’s comment to look back at this:
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/01/blair_getting_a/#comments
What seems to make the difference is that the comments were mainly engaged and personal; people of all kinds were bouncing off each other and arguing and learning about all sorts of stuff. Maybe we, like every dog, have had our day. Or perhaps that is what we have all come to ( I realise I echo Mary in this note of doom): that this board now reflects the hegemony of one-note unquestioning thought necessary in public. Hey, I just got told off for questioning – questioning – the provenance of a facebook photo. It was meant to accord with my prejudices (a policeman smashing something up) but it looked fake & my prejudice is for reality.
Slainte Dreoilin and all.
T
@Giles,
Save the soap there, soft soaping won’t work, Pakistan wonderful, zindabad, blah , etc. No ordinary punter can tell their arse from their elbow geographically speaking, therefore your descriptive soft soap puts you in the category of the busybody ziofuckwit, whose claim for eretz isreal is spreading farther, faster than a brush fire on Australian xmas day. On other hand you could be one of those mercenaries earning your keep snooping on the Pakistanis, and or reconnoitering for the drone strikes.
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Soft soap over, you start talking about mass immigration, and as ever the usual drivel about land, women, color, respect and all the shit that goes with the art of interloping to instigate hatred and racial disharmony.
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Forgotten in the melee is the fact that criminality has nothing to do with race or background, and everything to do with unlawful conduct. Therefore your unconscious drivel, regurgitating the racists charter, counts for zealch, and all too clearly highlights the hidden and latent racism that has systematically eroded any kind of shame, and or fear of overt racist and hateful conduct towards the Muslim minority who have been pushed further into the fringes and ghettoed in isolated clusters with little or no contact with the main stream society.
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The stark abuse of human rights of these minorities numbering in millions is always looked over, and these poor unfortunates being fair game, the rules of justice are turned upside down and always with a fanfare and good enough traction, normally coincident with terrorism, and or female abuse, of any sorts that in turn is addressed with heavy sentencing and huge media coverage, further demonising the same minority.
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Which other minority has an inordinate hatred of all thing Muslim? Which other minority enjoys umpteen thousand friends of …. organization all spewing the same cock and bull stories about Muslims? Which other minority has a Force majeure of antisem…. that compels most of the politicians to genuflect and grovel before the said minority that has come to set itself as the special case that can do no wrong?
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Courtenay Barnett, can elaborate on the fact that the verdict of this trial was known to one Nick Griffin before the actual court that was trying the case, further the female pimp that has been let go despite the evidence of her running a prostitution ring, as well as the anomalies not addressed and implications thereof.
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Finally it is all too easy to blame the victims of this orchestrated sadistic humiliation and abuse, whilst the fact that TO STOP immigration, it is easy. Don’t fuck around the planet causing trouble everywhere, and stop exploiting weaker nations directly and or indirectly, the exploitation which reduces the nationals of these nations to jobless, hopeless souls living in abject poverty, that have no recourse other than fleeing the their very own personal hell, and taking refuge in among the culprits who landed them in their very own personal hell in the first place, to live their lives as the underclass willing to work for pittance.
and (still surfing the archives) pretty much in awe of Craig’s range of writing and grateful. For that, and the people too. Arsalan, dreoilin, angrysoba, suhayl, clark, glenn, crab, anticant, eddie – yes, eddie – cheebacow, richard robinson – where art thou – MJ, even the person who thought there was genocide in Leicester. Learnt from you all. And laughed.
There’s alot of critiscism of Israel for good reason. One of them is the fact they infiltrated our Govt. at the highest of levels. Where is Werrity ?
Israel has been anti semitic by expelling the Bedouin from the Naqab region.
They have nuclear weapons and still have the Samson option.
Level playing field. All nations under one groove!
Either Nukes for everybody,or Israel has to go conventional.
The theme is torture.
can’t we change it ?
Giles
There is a piece on fascism in this blog.
What is there to believe any more.
You couldnt make this lot up.
Oh to have a mundane existence with out the ambivalence.
What Is Fascism?
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Unfortunately, Fascism has an undeserved bad reputation. Regardless of this reputation, Fascism is a very sensible economic and social ideology. There are a few different “flavors” of Fascism, but basically they all come down to the following.
Fascism is an economic system in which a nation’s government plays a central role in monitoring all banking, trade, production, and labor activity which takes place within the nation. Such monitoring is done for the sole purpose of safeguarding & advancing the nation and its people. Under Fascism, the government will not approve of any business activity unless that business has a positive impact on the nation as a whole and the people of the nation – this is the axiom which determines everything under Fascism.
In other words, the government asks, “Is XYZ Enterprises good for our nation and our people?” If yes, it’s approved. If no, it’s not approved. When they ask, “Is it good?”, they mean, “Is XYZ Enterprises good for the workers, do they pay a fair wage, do they produce a product or provide a service which advances our nation & our people technologically, morally, spiritually, health-wise, etc???” For example, a pornography company would not be allowed because pornography corrupts people generally and exploits & degrades women particularly. Also, “free” trade agreements (such as what the U.S. has with China) would never be allowed because such trade agreements result in companies sending jobs overseas (where labor is dirt cheap). Such an activity, of course, would undermine a nation’s labor class. This is entirely unacceptable and thus not allowed under a Fascist economic model.
Fascism is based on free enterprise – but with constraints (the primary constraint being, “Is the particular economic activity in question good for our nation?”). Also, a businessman can become wealthy in a Fascist country, and the government has no objection to this (this is in stark contrast to Communism). Fascism also encourages private ownership of property (again, in stark contrast to Communism where private property is not allowed).
In a nutshell, Fascism basically tells entrepreneurs, “Go ahead and start a business, earn a lot of money, be successful, but don’t produce any products or services which damage our nation and our nation’s people… and make sure you treat your workers fair and pay them a living wage. If you don’t do these things, we’ll shut you down.”
The above is the economic aspect of Fascism. There is also a cultural/social aspect to Fascism as well. Under Fascism, government plays a key role in monitoring: film, theatre, art, literature, music, education, etc in order to maintain a high moral standard, keep things clean and respectable, promote a strong sense of patriotism and honor, and prevent the dissemination of depraved filth which corrupts society.
With regard to political legislation introduced in a Fascist government, the same criteria is applied – “Will this proposed law benefit the nation as a whole and the people of our nation?”
A few other things to mention. Fascism encourages respect for the environment as Fascists understand that nature is the giver of life and thus must be preserved. Contrast this environmental view with that of Capitalism which too often takes the short term view with regard to resources and foolishly believes that pollution is a necessary byproduct of profit.
Also, under Fascism, if a person doesn’t like things, he/she can leave the country. Contrast this with Communism where if you don’t like things, you better keep your mouth shut. And, of course, there is no option to leave the country. You will submit or else be sent to a re-education camp where you’ll be brainwashed to accept the Communist system. And if you still resist, you’ll probably be killed. Again, there is no leaving. Submit or suffer the consequences.
Lastly, Fascism holds women in very high regard. Women are the carriers of new life. They are expected to be educated, worldly, and well read. Women are encouraged to pursue their interests and have a career but only if a career won’t interfere with their family’s needs; family comes first, always. Women are encouraged to be strong yet feminine.
In short, Fascism is a form of government & social system which authentically serves the interests of the people and nation as a whole.
James Miller
This is not what we have now.