The Mail on Sunday is doing a very good job on the odious Jack Straw’s involvement in torture and persecution. I think that at last the truth has entered the established narrative. There is a little box in the report about my own evidence to Scotland Yard. I will type it out here as the Mail’s box format here is not internet searchable:
“Torture” Evidence Handed to the Yard
Further pressure was piled on Jack Straw last night over the “rendition” of Libyan dissident Abdel Hakim Belhadj after sensitive documents were handed to Scotland tard detectives.
Craig Murray, former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan, passed the documents to police as part of the inquiry into the behaviour of Ministers and intelligence officials over the detention of Mr Belhadj in Bangkok in March 2004.
The opponent of Colonel Gadaffi was flown to Tripoli, where he claims he was tortured.
Mr Straw, who was Foreign Secretary at the time, has denied ever condoning the use of torture to extract information.
But the documents appear to cast doubt on that position.
One memo, headed “Uzbekistan: Intelligence Possibly Obtained Under Torture” contains minutes of a meeting Mr Murray held with senior Foreign and Commonwealth officials on March 8, 2003 to discuss his concern that the UK could be in breach of international law by possessing intelligence obtained by torture.
The minute, dated March 10 2003, quoted Linda Duffield, then the FCO’s Director of Wider Europe, apparently justifying the use of such material as part of the fight against terrorism.
A second memo, dated March 14 2003, and written by Simon McDonald – the Straw’s principal Private Secretary – to Ms Duffield says Straw has read the minutes and “agrees that you handled this very well”.
Mr Murray is understood to have told police that during Mr Straw’s time at the FCO diplomats were told to only refer to the policy on torture verbally.
Mr Murray said last night “My evidence stated that Jack Straw introduced a policy of allowing evidence obtained by torture to be used. I also told them that written evidence had been destrpyed, and we were told to not commit details into writing.”
There is a slight misquote in the above. It should say Jack Straw introduced a policy of allowing intelligence obtained by torture, not evidence. In fact it was specifically stated such intelligence would not be produced as evidence in court (people were imprisoned without charge or rendered instead). The instruction not to put things in writing was given to me personally, I don’t know if others were told the same. As I was the only one protesting, perhaps not.
These links are to the documents in question.
The first two were obtained by Freedom of Information Act request. Details of the CIA’s colllusion with the Karimiv regime’s torturers have been redacted by the FCO. Last week Jack Straw came out and argued strongly for the effective abolition of the Freedom of Information Act. Now there is a coincidence for you.
Uzbek,
Back again with your phantasmagoria I see;
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reducing debt means cutting spending which effectively means cutting social services which effectively means hurting the poorest hardest. That is where Philosophy comes and Economy loses its preciseness and quite possibly, its meaning.
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How is about not bailing out the bankers? As it has been borrow/print money and hand it over to the too big to fail and too big to suffer, and too big to go bust?
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Uzbek a question for you;
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What is poor?
Why are there poor?
How anyone can become poor?
Is poor genetic?
Why the cuts always mean taking even more away from the poor?
Komodo
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There are two ways to approach this problem – Economic and Philosophical. Combination of both is the best.
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Banks. There is no way of getting rid of them. They existed even in USSR and China under Mao. Money is blood of the economy (any economy not just capitalist). What do you suggest could replace money? I give you 1 pig you give me 20 chickens? Until money exist there will be some who have excess of them and those who desperately need them. That is where banks come to an existence. BUT they (banks) have to be properly regulated and not just left to their own greed.
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Landlords. I have my own sharp tooth on landlords’ greed. But bottom line is houses are in short supply and high demand (in London in particular). You can cap rent but this is not going to solve the problem gradually. This will more likely lead to even shorter supply of rentable accommodation and will sharply decrease its quality. Affordable houses can and must be built. I read one research report few years back and it was established that in average London borough 2bedroom apartment could be built and sold for as little as 75.000 quid. Apartment in 5 storey building, 4 apartments on each floor. And this cost sounds like kind of affordable accommodation which will take at least 50% of renters off greedy landlords claws and put them on a property ladder. This will eventually lead to sharp fall in rent as demand will be at least twice lower. It will also have positive impact on the economy as paying less towards mortgage means that people would have more disposable income to spend on goods and services or even start saving. The only downside to this, BLOODY banks would not allow this. BUT do not get rid of banks, REGULATE them.
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Material businesses. Yes, it is a key to economic growth. But considering cost of labour, energy, transportation, purchase or rent of land in the UK one would need to be very careful what type of material businesses to establish and only high-tech businesses which cannot be developed and produced for cheaper price could be sold competitively. Everything else that can be made in China, India, Vietnam etc will be uncompetitive and can only be sold on internal markets if market is closed for cheaper imported alternative. This however is not only going to finish off economy in long term but will lead to sharp inflation and as consequence will reduce household income in short term.
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Yes, less managers and more factory workers seems like good idea. But in China factory worker ‘costs’ 10 times cheaper than in the UK and in India 14 times cheaper. On the other hand more engineers, scientists, doctors would certainly benefit UK and general education must be gradually improved in order to provide universities with good quality students.
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There are in fact hundreds of alternatives and each must be carefully considered. And while it is being done debt is growing and more is spent to service it. So, one might presume that some prompt actions need in fact be taken to reduce the burden of all hated debt.
Andy Breivichttp ://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/04/17/brevik-whitewash-begins-in-norway-murdochs-hand-seen/k + Israel,
Passeby
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I can’t say that I am glad to see you, but here you are and while you are still bearable I might just respond to you.
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I do not advocate banks bailout. Although from Economic point of view it was right action, Philosophically it was wrong because while banks did not need state’s involvement to conduct their ‘profitable’ affairs, they should not have been offered help by the state when their ‘profitable’ affairs proven to be a bubble.
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Cuts will hurt poor, because we have Tory government for whom concept of poverty is equal to bunch of lazy uneducated people who are too lazy to get a job. They (Tory) do not understand that there are many reasons of poverty and being born with golden spoon is a matter of luck and not success.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/04/17/brevik-whitewash-begins-in-norway-murdochs-hand-seen/
Mister Jones, oh what a give-away! In your 2:42 pm comment, you presumably pasted your link into the middle of your search term. If we remove the link, your search term reconstructs to:
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Andy Breivick + Israel,
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So you’re on familiar terms with “Andy”, then? You’ll find what you look for, I suspect.
Komodo
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Its hard not to be cynical of a judicial process where we all know the top -level war criminals wont be touched.The US isnt even a signatory to the court.
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Charles Taylor is an easy fall-guy and just one of many evil warlords the court can-and i absolutely agree should-be prosecuting.
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But when is court going to go after the main players?
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Dont hold your breath.
Mr Jones has a strangely named and non-existent website.??
ie http://no/
O/T but an important article in my view, the signs of change to Hagues intransigence and baldowering.
Richard Bacon is MP for South Norfolk and known for his badgering of hedgefund managers and bankers.
He’s been to see the IAEA in Vienna and has made these same noises when I managed to corner him in John Lewis’s.
Is this a sign of an opposition to Hague’s hands off foreign policy rersolve, a light at the end of the tunnel, or is the tunnel mined? what do others feel?
http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/history_could_be_repeating_itself_over_iran_warns_mp_1_1361914
Hasn’t the recent statement by Gantz overtaken all this plotting against Iran, if only temporarily?
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Israel army chief says Iran not building nuclear bomb
Israel’s military chief said he does not believe Iran will decide to produce an atom bomb, describing its leadership as “very rational” in an interview published on Wednesday. (Telegraph)
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PS What a crap outfit EDP is. I entered ‘murdered girl sandringham estate’ to see if there were any recent developments. Everything but the reference came up.
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http://www.edp24.co.uk/home/search_7_1138?sort=publisheddate_descending&slotSearch=Search&siteId=2.203&submitted=true&freeTextQuery=murdered%20girl%20sandringham%20estate&action=search
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Do you have any updates Nevermind?
Gawd, what do we do when Isreali top brass start calling Iran’s leadership “very rational”? It’s surreal. I think I need a holiday…
If Israel are calling Iran rational, it can only mean one thing; Iran must have nukes, hundreds, possibly thousands of them!!! Quick, bulk order tinfoil hats!
Meanwhile “they” the Intelligence (lack of ) services, are trying to persuade us that Gareth Williams locked himself into a holdall and then died from something they cannot yet identify…..mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. His superior remembers nothing and never noticed Gareth’s absence… I would believe them ,except, Dr Kelly slit a vein which is hard to reach using a blunt knife with a gammy arm…..cue Dad’s Army theme and change the words a bit… ” who do you think , you are kidding Mr ….”
Who does order about our so called Intelligence services ? Our Govt would have us believe they don’t ,yet it’s in our interests. Did we get a vote ?? Yes.-) we did !! So ,we’ve only got ourselves to blame.
mista Fox is becoming more vocal as his period in the sin bin is obviously coming to an end.
This is the time of year for resurrections after all..
Most of the country didnt support David cameron and now his own party aren’t too supporting either,and yet we have this dickhead in power surrounded by 8 pints and 5 or 6 other losers.
If it had been a football game,even the Ref would’ve been sent off !
Yes DonnyD you know it’s ‘well dodgy’ when they have Gordon Corera reporting on the ‘inquest’.
They must have a had a lot of ‘selferotic’ fun trying to proof he’s done it himself. yesterdays reinactments on the BBC showed very desperate attempts.
Wonder how many takes and modles trying it this effort took. I mean they had to find someone who could bend his legs just like him and who doesn’t get a hard on whilst doing so.
Clark I couldnt be arsed to post till 2:42 as I only just got up.Thank the dickens somebody like Mr Duff had concocted a story that fitted in with my halucinations.bye
Mary,
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I wrote to Gen. Benny Gantz last Monday. There is of course no need for Iran to possess nuclear weapons.
OUT AND OUT UNMITIGATED HOGWASH – THE WITNESS FROM NOWHERE…
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Mark Duggan RIP was shot in the taxi when officers opened both rear doors, there was no evidence of mark carrying a gun, no finger prints, no DNA.
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“All the firearms officers involved in this operation have provided statements to the Independent Police Complaints Commission but they have all turned down a request to be interviewed. The IPCC does not have the power to compel them to answer questions about what happened here.”
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17859958
Clark,
Yet again reminding you all: the so called “media” under the directions of the relevant interest groups/masters/hand picked editors/proprietors/spooks only disseminate the information in support of the general thrust of the narrative passed as “current affairs”.
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Iranian ayatollahs have issued a formal fatwa (religious edict) that formally prohibits construction of any kind of nuclear weapons. This is not of any interest for anyone, after all this fatwa is not anything that makes Muslims look blood thirsty apes, in search of their next victim.
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Further given the naked hatred of Islam that is adopted as a main stream and matter of course affair in the West, fact that there has been such a fatwa issued is a hindrance and goes against the grain of the general consensus: Muslims bad.
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Finally this kind of “news” filtering out of the ziozioland is the zionists attempt in cooling the temperature of the current situation, purely out of self interest and in the aid of supporting the US economy from the pernicious fallout of the higher oil prices in the midst of the great economic depression, after all there is the aid dollars to be considered.
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The Leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has issued the Fatwa that the production, stockpiling and use of nuclear weapons are forbidden under Islam and that Iran shall never acquire these weapons
{http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=302258 }
WHAT PRICE CELEBRATIONS…
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זאת בדיוק הסיבה למה אני כישראלי קורא לחרם, משיכת השקעות וסנקציות על ישראל. אתם רוצים שישראל תתחיל לבנות מחנות השמדה? אז כבר יהיה מאוחר מדיי. צריך לעצור את זה עכשיו. כדי להציל את ישראל, מחרימים את המשטר הישראלי!
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http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=8256
Uzbek in the UK wrote “To understand this one needs to take this from macroeconomic level and look at it in family level. If a family is struggling to pay debts and is still spending more than earning then this family is never going to clear debts and with every year to come will spend more and more to cover just interests until it bankrupted.
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Economy dictates that first step is to reduce debt before any other long term actions can be taken. Understandably reducing debt means cutting spending which effectively means cutting social services which effectively means hurting the poorest hardest.”
Don’t mean any offence, but an individual’s or family’s or company’s finances and an entire country’s don’t work in the same way. A government can be in debt and yet not in any financial difficulty if it’s invested a fair amount of it’s money in things that will bring it more income in the long run. If it cuts benefits for the poorest and sacks lots of public employees when demand for goods and services and confidence in the economy is already low, it may create an even worse recession which actually reduces it’s income from taxation even more. If it carries out stimulus spending (public works programmes, investment in new technologies and industries) then this may restart the economy and restore confidence in it and demand and so bring it in so much new tax revenue that it can start to pay off it’s debts, even if in the short term it has gone further into debt to do this.
Cutting government spending does not have to mean cutting spending for the poorest or social services either. It can mean scrapping over-priced PFI / PPP contracts, cutting defence spending, cutting subsidies to the arms industry (which provides relatively few jobs for the subsidy it gets – the same subsidy would create many more jobs in civilian manufacturing), cutting subsidies to privatised rail companies, etc.
Debt can also be reduced by cracking down on tax evasion and avoidance in order to increase tax revenues – especially if this is done on an EU wide or OECD wide basis.
10 Nov 2009
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg13259.html
@ Uzbek in the UK says:
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“Bottom line is that Britain, Europe, West is in debt. Debt will grow and it will take decades if not century to clear it. To understand this one needs to take this from macroeconomic level and look at it in family level. If a family is struggling to pay debts and is still spending more than earning then this family is never going to clear debts and with every year to come will spend more and more to cover just interests until it bankrupted.”
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Smeggy says:
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It doesn’t work like the family analogy on a national or global scale. The monetary system as evolved by the Goldsmiths, Z’s and so on, uses debt as a root structure. All money is debt. Money is simply an IOU note. Without debt there is no money.
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So no, until the system is changed to one that benefits everyone and not just the Ruling Elite, then in order to keep the economy just standing still we need and ever increasing amount of debt, not less.
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source: Fractional reserve Banking – Deposit Multiplication – Usury
@ mark Golding on ‘celebrations’. There’s nothing big, clever ot moralyl acceoptable about celebrating the stealing of land, persecuting people, racism, genocide, ethnic cleansing.
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You probably know they also celebrate the act of terror against the British, the Bombing of the King David Hotel. The British government still licks their arse too.
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Similarly the American’s lick their arse even though they had an act of terror committed against them by the same lot. USS Liberty..
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Speaks volumes as to who has the greatest power eh?
Google Israel celebrated this way with a special banner for the day. I heard that the US site also had this sort of thing too. Sergey Brin co founder of Google supports Israel and went there for their 60th ‘birthday’ in 2008, which was 60 years on from al-Nakba.
http://www.google.co.il/logos/2012/israelind12-hp.jpg
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‘A long list of celebrities will be coming to Israel for the Israel 60th birthday anniversary celebrations. They include: film director Steven Spielberg, US President George W. Bush, former USSR President Mikhail Gorbachev, ex-US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, Middle East Quartet envoy Tony Blair, Indonesian President Abdurrahman Wahid, French philosopher Bernard-Henri Le’vy, Nobel laureate Elie Wiesel, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili, French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner, former German foreign minister Joscka Fischer, the last president of Czechoslovakia and the first President of the Czech Republic, Vaclav Havel, News Corporation Chairman and CEO Rupert Murdoch, social networking Web site Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg and Google co-founder Sergey Brin.’
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{http://www.infolive.tv/en/infolive.tv-22159-israelnews-friends-israel-create-israels-60th-birthday-card-website}
As for Israel, they’ve been playing a game of chicken with Iran for several years now, and they swerved when the headlights got too bright.Iran is still on the road.
Like any bully Israel have gone back to bombing and assassinating the weak and unarmed whilst stealing their land.
Their time will come.Hopefully there will still be enough of the indigenous people left to see it happen.
On economics
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2012/04/my-speech-delivered-at-new-york-federal.html
Economics experts speech to the Ferderal Bankers at a luncheon caused some raised eyebrows.
For those who are not yet aware the Federal reserve is there to afford our best interests.
Thankfull this country is well connected to the powerful elite so of course we are all side by side with the likes of Cameron, Blair. Thatcher. Benn
They have the power to create History so if there are any ways that situations could be avoided then voila.
“commited open dialogue.”
“Codename Cod”
Nice to hear the Blackbirds have chirped up.
If only they could shoe effort like the little Wren..
UK 27th April, 2012. Tottenham Court Road, London.
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http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/04/27/article-2136289-12CD080E000005DC-432_634x416.jpg
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Rehearsal for the Jubilympics?
celebrating 60 years of bad relations with the neighbours and inviting all the past bullies who made it possible to ignore International law and the rule and society.
All those bullies in one place, what an opportunity, for the sun to shine and rain to fall.
Settlers raise Israeli flag over Mosque, fourth holiest site in Islam. Imagine if a flag from a majority Muslim country found its way to the top of a synagogue.
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http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=480151