The London Olympics are already achieving the number one aim of the politicians who brought them here, which is making our politicians feel very important indeed.
The media is quite frenetic in its efforts to make us all believe we should be terrifically proud of the fact we are hosting the Olympics, as though there were something unique in this achievement. If we can’t competently do something that Greece, Spain and China have done in recent years, that would be remarkable. Of course the Games will be on the whole well delivered, sufficient for the media and politicians to declare it an ecstatic success. Some of the sporting moments will be sublime, as ever.
But did it have to be in London? We won’t know the total cost of the Games for months, but it will cost the taxpayer at least £9 billion and I suspect a lot more. I also suspect the GDP figures will, in the event, show that the massive net fall in visitor numbers has hurt the already shrinking economy further.
But to take the most optimistic figure, holding the Olympics in London has cost every person in the country an average of £150 per head in extra taxes. That is £600 for a family of four. Actually it is in the end going to be well over £2,000, as of course the money has been borrowed on the never never, and taxpayers are going to be paying it off their whole lives, along with the sum ten times higher they are already paying direct into the pockets of the bankers through their taxes.
The very rich, of course, don’t pay much tax, so they are not worried.
But to take just the figure of £600 extra taxes for a family of four, the lowest possible amount, and not including the interest. Is having the Olympics here really worth paying out £600 for? If Tony Blair had approached the head of the family and said “We are going to have the Olympics in London, but it’s going to cost you £600, would the answer have been from most ordinary people: “Yes, great idea, this is that important to us”?
People are not disconcerted because they don’t see that they have to pay. There is no special Olympics tax, and they pay their taxes in a variety of ways, and individuals are not the sole source of taxation. But this is nonetheless real money taken from the people in pursuit of the hubris of politicians.
I love sport. I hate the corruption of the International Olympic Committee, Fifa and the rest; I hate the vicious corporatism and militarisation of our capital and absurd elitism of the transport lanes; the sport itself I love. But with the economy contracting, and the NHS being farmed out for profit, is it really worth £600 for a family – and many families are really struggling in a heartbreaking way – is it worth the money to have the Olympics here rather than in Paris?
Of course it isn’t. I think many of us will feel an extra pleasure watching the Opening ceremony because it is British. Patriotic pride will surge. It is not wrong to enjoy the spectacle tonight on TV. The corporate well connected and ruling classes will enjoy it in the stadium.
But after you have watched it on TV, ask yourself this question. How much more did you enjoy it than enjoy watching the Beijing ceremony, and was that margin of extra enjoyment something that everybody in the room would have paid out £150 for?
Because they just did.
Clark, I did not suggest Tech would “run” anywhere. I thought Tech might find it too distasteful to come back. As for Komodo, if he chooses to stay away, that’s his prerogative. If I remember correctly, he was the one who brought the subject up in the first place.
Goodnight
There is that Clark – i would suggest that the intentional mass immigration by government (if the Daily Mail article and its source is to be believed) which has been seen in the last 15 years in England particularly, but not exclusively,and the social and cultural challenges that can arise from that, is something that England especially is trying to come to terms with and make sense of, possibly for only the second time in its history as a country,1066 being the major first shock!
I “question the amount of immigration” because other people do, and then i might picture the numbers and wonder what is the ideal rate of upheaval of beings, and things…
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We couldnt morally reject anyone who wants to stay somewhere in the uk, even if they are destructive people – that cant be known on entry, coming from hard places some incomers will be challenging. Mostly not, and many will be inspired by their movement and new skies.
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We do need facilities to take in everyone, to set them up and watch over them for a while – that is the goal!
What have we got?
Are we forced by inadequacies to vet incomers, to what degree? Ive not much clue.
In person i always try to help people.
or avoid them.
the ideal rate should be thataway i know ^
-good to yerselves
Nuid, you needn’t rely on your memory; it’s all recorded on the thread. Read it carefully. Komodo asked if it mightn’t have been more appropriate for the Olympic opening jamboree to have depicted certain scenes of low pay and unemployment that have befallen sections of the immigrant community, and to represent white industrialists as, well, white. I don’t call that racist.
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The fact is that high immigration rates have proven quite bad for many of the immigrants. The use of the immigrant community for gerrymandering helped keep war criminals Blair and Straw in power, and that has been disastrous for foreigners in their own lands.
I have to question the wisdom of allowing large numbers of people into the country when the place is in such a mess before they arrive. You can’t just wipe out prejudice. If you’re letting loads of people into a country with an unemployment problem, many of them are going to end up unemployed. What is the likely response going to be from the real racists, and is that good for the new arrivals?
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Bloody great honey trap. Nice strong currency, “Yes, come in, come in! What, you want a job? Sorry, we’re already short of those. Oh, you might get some benefits, but if you do our subservient press will denounce you all as scroungers. Have you met these nice young men from the EDL and BNP? Yes, they’re just like this thoughtful and intelligent chap called Komodo”.
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I feel like swearing.
Very hard to send people away though Clark, like torture, dehumanising. Writing angry you sound like your devils advocate. It seems for an instant to be an issue to be examined and resolved by socially and statefully assisting incomers. Yet the country has a deficit of these interests. The sending away of anyone is so difficult it rules out being able to place a limit, to many tinkers. It is easy to see how this is a most sensitive topic, and you shouldn’t have to pour over this massive tail anymore mod.
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With the backround threads too, this blog tail is in many parts unmodulateable.
“Sophisticated Weaponry”
that ghastly stuff.
storms raging.
Hmm. I’d caution anyone taking on the role of “moderator” to watch they don’t become the host of the show, a possibly inadvertent slipping into that very position. It’s a heck of a responsibility, having a finger over the “dump button” during a conversation between many people. It’s a very thankless task, but someone has to do it. Glad it’s not me. As with the man in the shack at the end of the universe, only someone who doesn’t want the job could possibly be qualified.
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It’s a rather sorry thing to return here from time to time, and instead of seeing some biting commentary on matters of the day (preferably led by the blog owner), one finds oneself looking back and back to understand why decent contributors are in dispute. That’s half the reason I haven’t waded in – ya’ll will be glad to hear! – overmuch recently.
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Obviously I’m unqualified to judge, being in ignorance of 99.5% of all posts lately (and indeed of everything else generally). But it’s a pattern of things… Usenet took to this decades ago. Even on groups that were of narrow interest, where one might hope to find insight, more energy was put into proving oneself right, and settling points, than to reasonable discussion. This sounds terrible to every individual with a fully justifiable point here, because I haven’t bothered seeing their angle – and it’s a fair criticism.
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I could be wrong, it’ll take more reading to find out, but – sadly – it looks the same on first glance. What’s the lesson – in any given environment for debate, animosity (like entropy) will always increase, and the group tend towards chaos?
Good post Glenn_uk. It’s so hard to discuss sensitive issues using such an impersonal medium. When talking to someone in real life, there is much more accountability for your words, and the general urge not to be a complete shit to the person you’re talking to. Often you are talking with friends or at least acquaintances, so you are more easily able to humanise them even when you strongly disagree. Then there is the fact that it’s quite easy to misinterpret short posts, or post something using sloppy language. All in all, it’s very easy to have a miscommunication and then things can escalate very quickly. No doubt I have been guilty of this.
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Anyway, everyone’s cool with me. Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya.
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Suhayl:
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Get a chance to listen to any of those tracks? Like any of it, or do you remain unconvinced?
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Clark:
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Thanks for what you do here. You ain’t perfect (who is?), but I’m confident you are doing a better job than I ever could. Just remember, this is the internet, there is no shortage of criticism, don’t take negative comments about your modding to heart too much.
Komodo:
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Sorry man. I still think your view of culture is based on some problematic ideas, but I got overly testy with you. That wasn’t cool.
The foregoing reminded me of the title of a Radio 5 programme called Up All Night which I sometimes hear! I was so cheesed off last night by the endess repetition of medal celebrations and interviews with the winners on all outputs that I went to bed and listened to the Bruckner.
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Bruckner began composition of his Symphony No. 8 in C minor in 1884. In 1887 Bruckner sent the work to Hermann Levi, the conductor who had led his Seventh to great success. Levi, who had said Bruckner’s Seventh Symphony was the greatest symphony written after Beethoven, believed that the Eighth was a confusing jumble. Devastated by Levi’s assessment, Bruckner revised the work, sometimes with the aid of Franz Schalk, and completed this new version in 1890. Cooke writes that “Bruckner not only recomposed [the Eighth]… but greatly improved it in a number of ways…. This is the one symphony that Bruckner did not fully achieve in his first definite version, to which there can be no question of going back.”
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You see that he stuck at it.
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Crab has referred to the Matthew Gould statement. It is significant but I wonder why he is saying it now. Perhaps we are being put off our guard? Following Romney’s visit to Israel on behalf of AIPAC, Panetta has visited and then Netanyahu had a go on the war drums.
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Leon Panetta and Binyamin Netanyahu discuss Iran – video
At a meeting with Israeli leaders in Jerusalem, the US defence secretary, Leon Panetta, says Washington will do all it can to prevent Iran developing a nuclear weapon. But Israel’s prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, warns time for peaceful resolution is running out. Panetta met Netanyahu to discuss Iran’s nuclear facilities on Wednesday
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2012/aug/01/leon-panetta-binyamin-netanyahu-video
Not sure if this has been mentioned already..
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Obama has signed a secret order authorizing US support of the Free Syrian Army (FSA). The CIA and other agencies were empowered by Obama earlier this year to provide intelligence and training. As the FSA’s efforts have intensified in the last few months, the Obama administration is now admitting to arming them.
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The support of technology to the FSA has vastly improved their ability to organize and attack the Syrian governmental forces. Smartphones and sophisticated computer equipment provided by the US government have given the FSA an advantage with guerilla clusters hold up in remote trenches with cellular phone communications.
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A crafty directive was written, giving the US greater covert “non-lethal” assistance and the State Department “set aside” $25 million for the FSA.
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/..
Obama Admits Funding Fake Revolutionaries to Attack Assad
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32083.htm
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Susanne Posel
3 August 2012
I have to question the wisdom of ………
Precisely, what on Earth has been achieved through debating “immigration” ever?
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There is the wanky racist who enjoy bringing forth the debate so they can get on with pummelling the “immigrants” some more and then some.
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There is eugenicists who verily believe in the purity of the race, and don’t want any deviations from the standard issue …..man (fill as applicable) to deviate genetically from the gene pool, and any mixing and matching is just darn too horrible.
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Then there is the varying shades of opinion of those caught up in the storm whom sway one way then the other, but in general these too are generally hostile to immigrants/immigration too.
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So why debate the case?
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Because the inn is full, and myriads of other reasons from black Bas…. are raping our young girls to those immigrants are getting a council house and a car and a mobile phone plus benefits, whilst we are getting the boot and told no house, no benefit, and nuffin this is because those bastard immigrants have taken all the money, haven’t they?
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Well the solution is there for everyone, to deduce:
1- gather the immigrants and shoot them and deport them.
2- humiliate these so much that they will run out of the country of their own volition.
3- carry on pointless debate and stoke even more hatred.
4- open the doors get swamped by the immigrants and then see rivers of blood (the speech to commemorate the Hitler’s birthday every fucking April)
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That is it then, problem solved!
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Not on your fucking Nellie, all that has been achieved has been reinforcement of the stereo types, and cause for deeper hatred and concerns.
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First off regards the council houses, that even the old hands on this board have been pointing out.
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Post the thatcher privatization of the council houses by their sale to their tenants there has a been steady erosion of council housing stock that has been further complicated by the lack of any budget for the renovation and up keep of the existing housing stock in the care of various councils (to encourage further sales of their housing stock).
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These housing stock would in fact fail any kind of inspection and are left to be boarded up and or demolished either of which are problematic. In walk the Mr. and Mrs immigrant/asylum seeker (legal or otherwise) to the aid of the party. The councils tender to house these immigrants in their substandard housing stock at a good rate of rent form the central government. So immigrants are good for the local authorities.
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The central government based on their figures from various private sector intelligence data, can estimate the need for cheap ie less than the minimum wage labour needs, and proceed to fulfil the quota with the immigrants. So immigrants are good for the private sector.
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Further the government can now be safe in the knowledge that the morons around the country would be far too busy seething about the fucking immigrants to notice the shaft that they have just been getting, without so much as a reach around or an offer of fag. So immigrants are good for the central government.
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Finally all the bile directed at the immigrants and the kicking and beating and murders of these leave the general population, with nice and handy punch-bags, and aid toward anger management of the general issue moron roaming the streets. So immigrants are good for the punters too, plus keep the prices down.
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Therefore considering the positive contribution of the immigrants to our society, why should we ever change our tune and or even wish to shift our paradigms when debating the “immigration”. Fact that all the problems associated with immigration would be solved simply by pressuring our government to refrain from dick swinging contest polices and stop traipsing around the world invading foreign lands to plunder their wealth and economy, leaving the would be immigrant bastards with no choice but to get of the shithole that their homelands have become due to the benevolence of our government in spreading democracy across the planet through bombing the fuck out of the potential and future immigrants homelands.
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In fact let us all get ready to greet some Syrian illegal asylum seekers into our fair land because at the minute our government is worried about democracy in Syria, and fact that Saudi the most repressive dictatorship along with that none country Qatar are pouring loads of money and our government is aiding and abetting the Syrian terrorists whom they call “Free Army” , you bet not a penny paid more than what it has to be, and still invade and fuck up another country.
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Now go and start debating the symptom what has cause to do with it?
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So are we to set a day of the week that we can all honk our horns and swear at every fucking brown/black/yellow/Muslim face that we see in our streets, just in the way of extending the debate like? Sure as fuck the ziofuckwit Desmond would have printed this in his rag, if he could get away with it.
Retailers, restaurants and historical sites lay virtually empty… So are these tourist attraction ‘quids in’, Mr Hunt?
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2183472/So-tourist-attraction-quids-Mr-Hunt.html#ixzz22ZVE3Ljf
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Oh the comfort of schadenfroh.
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I have been on record that the incestuous power elite, have for long cut off any remaining tethers to reality, and have divorced sense, and reason, to enjoy a life style of excess. These have all too often using fear as the only remaining tool in their box of tricks, kept jerking around the punters.
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So the resulting most secure ol impics ever, that has been an event in search of spectators, and now is an even in search of extras to make the place look busy.
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My, those missile batteries, and the howitzers and the helicopter gunships buzzing around and the corporate monopolies gone mad, as well as the friendly border agency staff and the ever present security in the airports have all paid off.
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No one cares to come and see the “spectacle”, enjoy the fucking show all by yourselves now!
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The idiots hiring more staff too, now that is cause for ROFL, who was advising these wankers?
“Nuid, you needn’t rely on your memory; it’s all recorded on the thread. Read it carefully.”
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I’ve already done that, more than once, Clark.
“Komodo asked if it mightn’t have been more appropriate for the Olympic opening jamboree to have depicted certain scenes of low pay and unemployment that have befallen sections of the immigrant community, and to represent white industrialists as, well, white.”
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Yes?
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“I don’t call that racist.”
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I didn’t use the word. In fact, I don’t believe I’ve used the word anywhere on this thread. When I said, “If I remember correctly, he [Komodo] was the one who brought the subject up in the first place”, I was talking about immigration. As far as I can see, Komodo was the first to refer to ‘immigrants’ when he wrote this:
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“The majority of the English population is white. An even larger majority of the British population is white, but I didn’t mention it. If Englishness is now to be defined as embracing in their entirety a random selection of immigrant “cultures”, including a second-hand version of LA’s gang mentality, well, that’s your p.o.v. maybe, but it isn’t mine.”
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Which, I might add, suggests that what I said about the Irish — ‘nobody on the anti-immigration (or limited immigration) side has mentioned the huge migration of [by] the Irish into Britain. Dare I suggest that it might be because they’re 1) white, 2) English-speaking, and 3) at least nominally-Christian?’ — is correct.
Clark please check the queue for a comment of mine.
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[Mod/Clark: I’ve done that now.]
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about the Irish
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Ever read the book how the Irish became white?
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Irish and Scots were also sold into slavery too, and in fact if I am not mistaken there were laws about the numbers of times the Irish slaves could be bred.
Clark, I repeated the word ‘horrendous’ because I wanted an explanation of what was horrendous about the figures and why. Got none..
Chris Jones, thanks for your reply.
Have continued because I feel strongly, as I said, that objecting to past figures is objecting to real people who are here now. Pretty obvious, really.
Nuid, you’re right, only came back because this is not my argument, it’s for people who don’t have access to this blog. Am going to stop now. Clark, actually, you can accuse me of dishonesty and so on for all you like. Komodo, have never thought or suggested you are like the EDL. Take care.
”Do as I say else I will smash your country” – Obama gets ugly!
http://www.coia.org.uk/obama.png
Tech, you can get me at boxtyy [at] ireland.com
Clark…delete them mate…this is all becoming very boring !!
Frazer, they’ve gone. I have kept a record.
Well done that man…Craig was no doubt getting rather frustrated..
I have kept a record.
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Tell me that I have not missed a bar fight have I?
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What gives Clark, Frazer is pissed off too, not the usual state of affairs have I missed anything?
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thanks for checking there mate.
Frazer, do you have any further advice please? Personally, I’d like to close comments on the remaining threads.
Q. Who said “Of course, it would be unfair of me not to mention the military. I think they’ve been fantastic and everywhere we’ve gone they’ve looked extremely smart and like they’ve enjoyed themselves. They’ve obviously been doing their job extremely well.”
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A. Prince William. Naturally!
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Princes William and Harry praise Olympic ‘buzz’ http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19116763
Giles, I’ve sent your comment to the queue while I await advice. I hate this.
I see it’s just outright deletion for no reason at all now, Clark (but only of those on one side, of course).
Giles, it’s not deleted, just queued. I don’t want to make this decision on my own, but I’d rather you didn’t try to continue the argument.
An interesting exhibition of Harry Hill’s painting is on show in the Edinburgh Art Festival.
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For instance, this is ‘Schofield’s Dream’.
http://www.edinburghartfestival.com/img/uploads/schofield_320.jpg
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details {http://www.edinburghartfestival.com/exhibitions/harry_hill/}
Mark Golding,
How do you listen to the From Syria via HF SSB communications:, can this be replicated without the radios etc.
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What is the latest from Syria? The “rebels” seem to have gotten a regular pasting from the Syrian Army.
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Also do you know anything about the smuggler turned “revolutionary”, who is supposedly funding the fuckwit farrago?