The London Olympics are already achieving the number one aim of the politicians who brought them here, which is making our politicians feel very important indeed.
The media is quite frenetic in its efforts to make us all believe we should be terrifically proud of the fact we are hosting the Olympics, as though there were something unique in this achievement. If we can’t competently do something that Greece, Spain and China have done in recent years, that would be remarkable. Of course the Games will be on the whole well delivered, sufficient for the media and politicians to declare it an ecstatic success. Some of the sporting moments will be sublime, as ever.
But did it have to be in London? We won’t know the total cost of the Games for months, but it will cost the taxpayer at least £9 billion and I suspect a lot more. I also suspect the GDP figures will, in the event, show that the massive net fall in visitor numbers has hurt the already shrinking economy further.
But to take the most optimistic figure, holding the Olympics in London has cost every person in the country an average of £150 per head in extra taxes. That is £600 for a family of four. Actually it is in the end going to be well over £2,000, as of course the money has been borrowed on the never never, and taxpayers are going to be paying it off their whole lives, along with the sum ten times higher they are already paying direct into the pockets of the bankers through their taxes.
The very rich, of course, don’t pay much tax, so they are not worried.
But to take just the figure of £600 extra taxes for a family of four, the lowest possible amount, and not including the interest. Is having the Olympics here really worth paying out £600 for? If Tony Blair had approached the head of the family and said “We are going to have the Olympics in London, but it’s going to cost you £600, would the answer have been from most ordinary people: “Yes, great idea, this is that important to us”?
People are not disconcerted because they don’t see that they have to pay. There is no special Olympics tax, and they pay their taxes in a variety of ways, and individuals are not the sole source of taxation. But this is nonetheless real money taken from the people in pursuit of the hubris of politicians.
I love sport. I hate the corruption of the International Olympic Committee, Fifa and the rest; I hate the vicious corporatism and militarisation of our capital and absurd elitism of the transport lanes; the sport itself I love. But with the economy contracting, and the NHS being farmed out for profit, is it really worth £600 for a family – and many families are really struggling in a heartbreaking way – is it worth the money to have the Olympics here rather than in Paris?
Of course it isn’t. I think many of us will feel an extra pleasure watching the Opening ceremony because it is British. Patriotic pride will surge. It is not wrong to enjoy the spectacle tonight on TV. The corporate well connected and ruling classes will enjoy it in the stadium.
But after you have watched it on TV, ask yourself this question. How much more did you enjoy it than enjoy watching the Beijing ceremony, and was that margin of extra enjoyment something that everybody in the room would have paid out £150 for?
Because they just did.
Apostate – I think half of all Americans have woken up to the trick being played on them: these ‘convenient attacks’ seem to be creating the opposite effect to removing the 2nd ammendment, as gun buying has gone through the roof since these shootings
Another interesting article (which was apparently the most emailed and tweeted in the USA and Israel). An op-ed in the New York Times entitled
“Israel’s Fading Democracy”
By AVRAHAM BURG
August 4, 2012
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/05/opinion/sunday/israels-fading-democracy.html
“They’re about to have their 2nd Amendment rights removed on the back of the current spate of shootings” – Apostate
.
I don’t think either Romney or Obama has even hinted at such a thing. Nor will they, with an election coming up. The Tea Party (who are getting behind Romney because they have nobody else, and they’re operating on an “anyone but Obama” basis) would drop him like a hot coal if he even mentioned it – and quite possibly take to the streets. As for the “more than one gunman” theory, maybe there was. But the police have discounted it as several people phoning 911 and reporting the same gunman from different perspectives.
vronsky, good to hear from you and hallo nextus, needle sharp wit as ever. This is like a virtual garden party.
Today’s long prepared defection of the butcher for Assad’s family clan, Hijab, is marking a new turn in the offensive against Assad,
Not because he has been duped by what was obviously a desperate man wanting to save his bacon, he let this western stooge run his Government.
For two month in office he thought about defecting, planning to get his family out? what’s far more likely is that he was gotten at long before he got into office, my guess.
Turkey volte-face last year has washed them into the hands of the paymasters Saudi and Qatar and it seems that they have now set up supply lines and logistics to fight a more concerted campaign. If Aleppo falls to these young fighters, then Homs and Damascus will also fall, but Assad still has awesome fire power and it will be messy and drawn out. Good time to get out of Syria.
.
Hamas and Hezbollah are set and armed, quiet possibly with modern Russian armoury, who knows what is already been going on during the last year. What is not sure is to what extend Turkey will be allowed to gain access to Northern Iraq and strafe the PKK, once the brown matter hits the fan, its one part of the conflict where israel might be called upon to protect them and it could get right messy very fast.
Thanks for the nuclear link and don’t forget the brollies when it rains..;)
Riad Hijab is a very scared man after Younis of Libya. The rule in Islam is that you kill the collaborators with your enemy first, even before the enemy. Of course, the opponents of Assad would never ever collaborate with UKUSIS. Their mind-boggling double-think about this shows that they are intellectual neanderthals.
.
They believe in raw power, wherever it is derived from. They know they will be betrayed by UKUSIS, but they hope that the rest of the world will also lower their intellectual capacity to their own neanderthal level when they feign surprise at being betrayed.
.
Watching political Islam, with its wadges of cash from Saudi and Qatar tucked in its belt, and hotlines to war criminals Cameron, Hague and Obama, is like watching a cartoon of a brainless giant having one of its heads cut off by a crafty human. Islam is degraded by their falsehood, greed, ignorance and ambition.
.
Yet the other head, the path of patience, knowledge, wisdom and faith cannot survive if the stupidists of political Islam are made fools of by the UKUSIS games. Sometimes it seems as though the stupidists want to finish Islam deliberately so they can establish their own mad mullah kingdom of Stalinist oppression.
.
The USUKIS coalition has promised them a re-drawing of the borders under the evolving war around Syria, Iraq and Iran.
Same as they promised them a new lease of Chaliphah if they helped the UK to finish the Ottoman Empire.
‘High-stomached are they both and full of ire, In rage, deaf as the sea, hasty as fire.’ Yes that was said by Shakespeare’s weak king, Richard II, of the men who were just about to depose and murder him. They will probably murder me for opposing them as they close in on Assad. I speak my mind as I see it, that Western Civilisation and its Law and its security, are all about to be de=capitated by an alliance of our combined enemies who hate our freedoms and our security, our one-sided rules, and our one-sided economies.
.
The English people are not responsible for the injustice and brutality of their rulers, but political Islam has manoevred itself into an alliance with those unjust and violent leaders of ours, by doing their dirty work of challenging Russia’s toehold in Syria.
‘
Just as I predicted the banking collapse 20 years before it happened, I also predict that the world will regret this course of action.
But there is no stopping them.
Another depth plounging Newsnight special on Syria tonight, where the rat weasel Mark Urban and his ridicilous digital magick pen tried his creepy best to convince the public that ‘the Syrian Government forces have given up on all the eastern side of Syria’ and the ‘Syrian state forces are on the run elsewhere’. Nothing about the mass graves of civilians found in rebel held areas of course, or indeed the fact that the rebels are terrorist mercenaries that include large members of Al Qaeda – which Britain and America now admit to supporting and aiding – an illegal act in itself under UN Charter.
.
The BBC institution is officially now a compromised farce. This almost beats the This week programme, where Andrew Neil, Michael Portillo and Diane Abbott merilly laughed and joked while watching images of Gadafi being murdered by his captors, and the Geneva Convention being ripped to shreds – all this to the accompaniment of jeery pop music and the closing credits. Welcome to hell
pince? moi? oh yooo Nexeus
.
Nuid thanks for reminding me and relieved to see you back in effect 🙂
.
Vronsky i meant to say you are a treasure of this land.
.
The Craigmurry comment stream, tracking the shade of hopelessness overcasting the world… extending from the ancient machinations of the mega rich? or a bunch of crazed generals and squillionares? The answer is not settled here but shit is happening, lots can be done still, there is lots of living left to do.
.
Love to lurkers. To lurk is to embolden, and live! je t’lurche! xo
“The Craigmurry comment stream, tracking the shade of hopelessness overcasting the world… extending from the ancient machinations of the mega rich? or a bunch of crazed generals and squillionares? The answer is not settled here but shit is happening, lots can be done still, there is lots of living left to do.
.
Love to lurkers. To lurk is to embolden, and live! je t’lurche! xo”
.
Sounds interesting but vague enough.Can anyone tell me what this actually means please?
Guano,
.
It seems to me bribery and deception plays it’s ugly Western hand in a hierarchical web through mujahideen to Pan-Islamism and we still reserve debate for this corruption of Shura.
.
Religion aside I strongly believe we have to move on into 21st century thinking and happening. I ask how many here are members/contribute to the Occupy movement head count in Britain which I estimate is an insignificant peewee five thousand at best including NI and Scotland?
.
Yet most will agree, as in the decision to go to war in Iraq, the will of the British people is not at all represented even in the final sacrifice. Our politicians represent their own interests and the interests of the banks. Who do the banks serve? Yes, themselves; their purpose is to make money, period.
.
Clearly then a true democracy is not just a vote. On all major issues such as war, resources to defend us, welfare, foreign policy, our health, taxes, public media and more are fundamental to a true and honest democracy, important to everyone and as such require mutual understanding and consultation.
.
I therefore ask when, at what time and how many people in this country, willing and resolved to make a stand/point, a sound, with determination? Do we have to wait for the crash?
.
Remember we have been betrayed by lies and ten thousand young never had a chance to give love, or are racked with pain or orphaned; this haunts our moral sense. Yet our inner voice is our cue to act, our intelligence demands it.
.
Is it not time we developed our own ‘flow’ and go with it by way of Occupy in Britain?
Vronsky and Nextus, good to see you both again.
.
Thanks to various people for the support, as well as the warnings and criticism, but I’d like people to consider this: the vast majority of my argument with Technicolour was not a moderation issue at all. My moderator’s login enables me to delete or edit contributors’ comments. I suppose I could also threaten to do so. But I didn’t do that to Technicolour*. We just argued like anyone else.
.
(*Yes, there was a bit right at the end that got deleted. But this is complicated, involved no political argument, did involve private data, and cut both ways. I’d made a mistake and had no good way out. And it was still not really about moderation.)
.
However, Giles did suffer deletion. That was a moderation issue. Giles posted offensive insults, and I deleted them, and I posted notes as to what I’d done and why.
.
I’ve stated my moderation policy here a few times, and Jon’s seems much the same. Contributors can post any political opinion or argument that they wish, but if someone attacks a contributor rather then their argument, starts throwing personal insults, or diverts thread after thread onto their own favourite subject, I’ll delete the offending comments.
.
I think this policy leaves moderators free to express their own opinions just like normal contributors. And remember, we were just contributors, long before the blog had any moderation. I don’t see why moderators should now refrain from expressing their opinions or arguing. You may as well say that Craig can’t express himself here, as he can edit and delete comments just as the mods can, and occasionally he does so.
.
Moderators do get an advantage, which is the ability to edit and correct their own comments after they’ve been posted. Sometimes, keeping up with developments on the threads can be pretty hectic, so I think this little luxury is both useful and reasonably fair.
“I think half of all Americans have woken up to the trick being played on them: these ‘convenient attacks’ seem to be creating the opposite effect to removing the 2nd ammendment, as gun buying has gone through the roof since these shootings”
Sorry I just don’t buy it. In what way are these attacks convenient? They seem to be run on the mill in a very violent society. Look at the numbers from this article (telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6511668/Fort-Hood-shooting-Americas-worst-gun-massacres.html). It lists the 14 worst gun massacres between 1991 and 2009. 154 people were killed (excluding the shooters who usually took their own life or were killed by police) in those 14 events.
.
Why this great fear that Obama has some secret plot to remove all guns? Let’s look at the facts. Since becoming president, Obama has not pushed for any gun control laws. Obama signed laws letting people carry concealed weapons in national parks and in checked luggage on Amtrak trains. In 2009 there was a surge in gun sales, in 2011 there was a surge in gun sales and right now there another surge, but Obama has done nothing. What happened after Democrat Congresswoman Giffords was shot in the head (and 6 others were killed) during an assassination attempt? Nothing.
.
After the recent cinema massacre in Colorado, the debate was whether costumes should be banned from cinemas not guns…. the gun debate is currently a joke in the USA.
.
Nuid:
.
I read the NYT piece yesterday. Nothing particularly amazing, and still fawning over Israel, but it is encouraging to see political space opening up for such views in the US. Only a few years ago Israel was completely beyond reproach, now even establishment media like the NYT offers criticism. But there is still a long way to go.
.
The poor Sikhs have been suffering from mistaken identity for a long time.
.
“In 1907, a mob in Bellingham, Wash., who called Sikhs “the Hindus,” ran them out of town. [cut] During the 1970s Iranian hostage crisis, Americans often mistook Sikhs for Iranians. Vandals attacked some temples after the Oklahoma City bombing, committed by white U.S. Army veteran Timothy McVeigh. [cut] Just four days after the 2001 attacks, Balbir Singh Sodhi, a gas station owner in Mesa, Ariz., was shot and killed by a man who mistook him for a Muslim and was seeking revenge. Last year, a New York City subway worker and Sikh, 30-year-old Jiwan Singh, was assaulted on a train and accused of being related to Osama bin Laden.”
sgvtribune.com/news/ci_21249324/american-sikhs-small-misunderstood-community
.
Vronsky:
.
More please.
Clark, the issue is not that you can’t both moderate and contribute, but that it is difficult to keep these roles separate – in action and in perception. A moderator should be like a faceless bot. Once the moderator expresses value judgements about good and bad opinions, or deems some posts morally unacceptable, he/she is perceived to assume an authoritarian persona – somewhat like HAL-9000 in 2001: A Space Odyssey.
.
Some years ago when serving both as moderator and contributor on a psychology bulletin board, I repeatedly admonished another contributor (let’s call him “Bob”) for his continual misrepresentations and fabrications – which actually constituted a breach of forum rules. Ultimately faced a mutiny due to a confusion of my roles. As moderator I merely pointed out breaches of etiquette – I never actually deleted or revised anything. I used my contributor identity for argument and opinion, often quoting passages from the academic literature to reveal Bob’s misrepresentations. (In fact, I knew from private correspondence that he wasn’t the expert he pretended to be – he had no relevant education or qualifications and the ‘case studies’ he cited were simply one-sided stories of his experiences with his ex-wife – but this was privileged information and for ethical reasons I couldn’t reveal it in the forum.)
.
Now, I made a point of keeping my identities separate. I used the moderator identity simply for announcements and reminders of forum rules. When I expressed points of view or argued a case, I used my contributor persona, which was intended to put me on a par with everyone else. But although I thought I was keeping my roles distinct, they had indeed become confused. In my contributor persona I had implicitly adopted a kind of guardian role: I was patrolling the discussions like a vigilante, trying to tackle any distortions that could mislead casual readers. (I was acutely conscious that the site served as a public information resource where people sought information on issues broadly related to mental health, and misrepresentations could have real consequences for personal lives.) Bob (who knew I was the moderator) perceived my campaign against his uneducated views as some kind of bullying or an abuse of authority. When he outed my dual identity in his protestations, it became impossible for me to express an opinion or implement forum rules without seeming like a dictator (or HAL-9000 gone rogue). Bob eventually left in a huff and set up an alternative forum, which many contributors joined in order to continue their previous discussions. When MSN subsequently withdrew their bulletin board system (thereby mothballing my forum), Bob was master of his own ship. By trying to stamp out his self-serving heresy, which I perceived as blatantly fraudulent, I lost my ability to moderate it altogether. It was a salutary lesson.
.
The same holds for debates generally. An impartial chair should never enter the debate, even by switching hats – it’s too difficult to keep the identities separate (even Dimbleby slips up at times!). Maybe I’m just having flashbacks, but I sense a similar phenomenon is in danger of occurring here. It’s important to make an effort to remain fully impartial – unless you want to be like Jeremy Paxman.
Good article in yesterday’s Independent by Yasmin Alibhai-Brown – says it all, really [usual prefix]:
.
independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/yasmin-alibhai-brown/yasmin-alibhaibrown-anyone-who-now-thinks-britain-is-too-multicultural-8008818.html
.
Remember the 1998 French Football World Cup win? It was a great thing, but of course on its own, was insufficient to halt the tide of racism. Zinedine Zidane was one of the greats. Here’s a story inspired by the European Cup Final at Hampden Park Glasgow some 10 years ago, when Zidane scored an absolutely amazing goal to take his team to victory! The web-zine, ‘The Barcelona Review’ is edited by a British woman who lives in Spain. It’s a good literary magazine. [usual prefix]
.
barcelonareview.com/49/e_ss.htm
.
Enjoy.
An add on to my previous post.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/08/201285133440424621.html
It would seem that Turkey has landed itself in a lose lose situation.They’ll lose a pipeline and an airbase whilst watching their oil rich neighbours “the Kurds” continue to rise and unite.It will also guarantee regional conflict for the next 100 years.
Nuid, you’re absolutely right. This – the terrorist murders by a White Supremacist in the Sikh gurudwara in the USA – is the direct effect of Islamophobic propaganda. Sikhs have been murdered before in the USA in relation to the same dynamic. The CNN reports were so deeply ignorant (as well as malevolent) that some of them were describing Sikhs as: “Sikhs are not Muslims, they are Hindus”. What???
.
The Islamist terrorist who murdered those Jewish children and their teachers/parents in Toulouse a few months ago similarly was infected by (in his case, Anti-Semitic) hate-speak.
.
A couple of days ago, I gave the example of my (Pakistani Christian) neighbour being assaulted (sustaining a fracture-dislocation of his shoulder requiring internal fixation, i.e. an operation, pins, etc.) by racist thugs last year as he closed-up his shop for the night. He has lived here for over 30 years. He wife was born here. Her mother worked as a nurse in the NHS for decades.
.
Hate-speak – propaganda, coarse or subtle, it is like a virus and as I keep arguing, it has real consequences.
.
This is one of the reasons why the persistent propaganda of hate-speak – words, spoken, broadcast, written – is important and why it must be tackled, countered, by words, in both the public and private domains.
That is exactly the kind of despondency those higher up want you to think Cryptonym – so that chaos can ensume and they can come in and take charge.
.
But they already have. That is why they are “higher up”.
.
I used to laugh at lemmings.
Louise Mensch
@LouiseMensch
co-founder of #menshn – +++(*if I’m quiet here +++I’m on the microforums there). Author. Work in progress
.
*No danger! She still has plenty of time to waste twittering.
.
http://twitter.com/LouiseMensch
.
I thought she would be busy packing. Wonder what Mr Mensch thinks of the imminent invasion of three stepchildren. They were born in NY when she was married to LoCicero and were brought over to the UK to ‘benefit from the British education system’ according to the Telegraph. All this upheaval in their lives since 2002. Poor kids.
Well fancy that.
.
‘Ms Bagshawe joined New Labour in 1996 believing that Tony Blair would be “socially liberal but an economic Tory.’
.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2006/apr/19/uk.conservatives1
.
She does chop and change, doesn’t she?
.
Have you ever read her Wikipedia page? The Biography paragraph is so funny.
Suhayl, no offence intended, but who gets to define “hate speak”? We’ve already seen “antisemitism” mutating into meaning “mild and legitimate criticism of Netanyahu’s policies”, for instance. Suspicion of other groups is hardwired into the human pack brain. It used to be a survival asset. Can you realistically counter “hate speak”? (aside for consideration – http://www.orwelltoday.com/duckspeak.shtml ) or are we going to invoke “thoughtcrime”?
.
A Sun reader writes: “Words don’t seem to be enough. We are told that immigration is good for us…at the same time we see unemployment rocketing, with full-time work becoming a thing of the past, and a house of our own an unaffordable luxury. We draw certain conclusions. They are probably the wrong conclusions, for our most cerebral activity is watching footy on the box, but they are perfectly legitimate ones. Sorry about your mate, but what about those guys in Rochdale?”
Re-Aurora
If we drew the line where the “investigating authorities” and official media in the Holmes case would like us to draw it we would never get to the bottom of the case.
The Aurora “investigation” is seriously compromised already. The gaping holes in the official “lone gunman” story suggest an orchestrated MK-Ultra, strategy of tension agenda is in play. Its objectives are to traumatize the public into acquiescence with the curtailment of their civil rights in the interests of the planned FEMA camp national security state.
Obama has certainly flip-flopped on the gun control issue but the current orchestrated shooting events are the initial steps in the problem-reaction-solution pre-election cycle his political masters have initiated.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/25/obama-gun-control_n_1704246.html#slide=221483
Suhayl,
Thank you for your comment at 5 Aug, 2012 – 11:58 am, and for your very kind words, which I’ve only seen now.
.
This thread has become so long, it needs very careful reading, or posts can be missed. I’m about to go back and re-read from the time Tech left, before I say another word. (But first, more coffee!)
Whilst my comments, pre Edinburgh, were almost appearing instantly, since then this has changed.
Far from musing about it, I wonder whether I should re write it and split it up into twitter format of 140 characters to get it on.
.
My uninformed guess is, the site carries too much weight in its tail, too many threads open for comments. A re vamp would be great.
The spam got through, so I shall try again in this new box.
The ex psy op racialist who murdered Sikhs going to their temple, was spotted acting strange before he killed.
.
To call this man a ‘frustrated neo Nazi’ is wrong. How many more frustrated nutters with guns are there around and what does it matter that they are frustrated, it does not in any way diminish his act.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/shooter-wade-page-was-army-vet-white-supremacist-856cn28-165123946.html
Unless gun control is on the agenda, more people will die from people like him.
.
Thanks for the finer nuances of moderation nextus, I suppose the nearest equivalent is a referee in a football match, But I have no intention of making this the subject of the day, too much going on.
.
Its becoming clear that Saudi will not rest to support anti shia forces, anything that weakens Irans stance.We are facing a war in the middle east and we ourselves have mongered already in it by training those who make up the SFA, be they Muslim brotherhood or salafist’s or Al quaeda.
.
Now to the active part, the bit we should try and chomp at, just to remove us from the keyboards and exercise the legs rather than fingers. The fragile state of Ms. Mensch’s mind has opened the opportunity for us to support any local Independent candidate that might want to be the third wheel between this battle of Labour and Conservatives. WOne should it be let known to the election officers of the council that all declared expense claims and records by both parties will be questioned, scrutinised and published, because both parties will throw loads of money at this bye election.
In GE’s you can only spend a certain sum, but by elections are a free for all.
So how about it? Anybody live in Corby, knows someone who lives there, can we be bothered to have a month worth of fast and furious campaigning?
Or are we happy going down further, jabbing our jaws in disapproval ad infinitum?
you decide. I’m sure that we will get lots of helpers from this and other blogs once we go for it.
bllx to this posting lark, I’m off for the day, this is like treacle running uphill, or something is seriously wrong.
‘Comment privileges for this account have been disabled. ‘
Hurray I’m banned by the Guardian… anybody else?
Guardian…pffft. Really am getting sick of it. Being banned would be a badge of honour, but I can’t even be arsed posting there. Le Monde is harder for me to read, but better coverage (and journalism) all round, while its olympics prolefeed (see Orwell, above) is confined to an easily discarded small supplement. The Grauniad’s going broke in any case. Allgemeiner Zeitung, Nevermind? And translate the choicer bits for us, eh?
Forum, anyone?
“That is exactly the kind of despondency those higher up want you to think Cryptonym – so that chaos can ensume and they can come in and take charge”
.
“But they already have. That is why they are “higher up”.
.
I used to laugh at lemmings”
.
.
I would suggest that being ‘higher up’ doesnt neccessarrilly correlate with being charge in all areas komodo – not quite yet anyhow
Apostate wrote – “The gaping holes in the official “lone gunman” story suggest an orchestrated MK-Ultra, strategy of tension agenda is in play”
.
Aboloutely agree Apostsate – within a few days Obama was conveniently trying to push through a ban on all automatic weapons. Your right about Katrina too, where they just took all guns,breaking the second ammendment rights. Not all gun crimes are so suspect obviously but anyone whos seen the video of the alleged Aurora shooter/phd student in court drugged out of his head with obviously no clue what was going on would have no choice but to find the whole thing highly suspect
A quick question.
.
“a portion of my tongue … was in my cheek”
.
Does this constitute arguing ‘in good faith’??
.
“I keep forgetting about people whose lips move when they read, and take everything literally, too.”
.
Well yes, of course, many of us can only manage by keeping a dictionary and thesaurus handy at all times. Especially when such luminaries walk amongst us … pffft …