The London Olympics are already achieving the number one aim of the politicians who brought them here, which is making our politicians feel very important indeed.
The media is quite frenetic in its efforts to make us all believe we should be terrifically proud of the fact we are hosting the Olympics, as though there were something unique in this achievement. If we can’t competently do something that Greece, Spain and China have done in recent years, that would be remarkable. Of course the Games will be on the whole well delivered, sufficient for the media and politicians to declare it an ecstatic success. Some of the sporting moments will be sublime, as ever.
But did it have to be in London? We won’t know the total cost of the Games for months, but it will cost the taxpayer at least £9 billion and I suspect a lot more. I also suspect the GDP figures will, in the event, show that the massive net fall in visitor numbers has hurt the already shrinking economy further.
But to take the most optimistic figure, holding the Olympics in London has cost every person in the country an average of £150 per head in extra taxes. That is £600 for a family of four. Actually it is in the end going to be well over £2,000, as of course the money has been borrowed on the never never, and taxpayers are going to be paying it off their whole lives, along with the sum ten times higher they are already paying direct into the pockets of the bankers through their taxes.
The very rich, of course, don’t pay much tax, so they are not worried.
But to take just the figure of £600 extra taxes for a family of four, the lowest possible amount, and not including the interest. Is having the Olympics here really worth paying out £600 for? If Tony Blair had approached the head of the family and said “We are going to have the Olympics in London, but it’s going to cost you £600, would the answer have been from most ordinary people: “Yes, great idea, this is that important to us”?
People are not disconcerted because they don’t see that they have to pay. There is no special Olympics tax, and they pay their taxes in a variety of ways, and individuals are not the sole source of taxation. But this is nonetheless real money taken from the people in pursuit of the hubris of politicians.
I love sport. I hate the corruption of the International Olympic Committee, Fifa and the rest; I hate the vicious corporatism and militarisation of our capital and absurd elitism of the transport lanes; the sport itself I love. But with the economy contracting, and the NHS being farmed out for profit, is it really worth £600 for a family – and many families are really struggling in a heartbreaking way – is it worth the money to have the Olympics here rather than in Paris?
Of course it isn’t. I think many of us will feel an extra pleasure watching the Opening ceremony because it is British. Patriotic pride will surge. It is not wrong to enjoy the spectacle tonight on TV. The corporate well connected and ruling classes will enjoy it in the stadium.
But after you have watched it on TV, ask yourself this question. How much more did you enjoy it than enjoy watching the Beijing ceremony, and was that margin of extra enjoyment something that everybody in the room would have paid out £150 for?
Because they just did.
Wade Michael Page, psy op soldier who was decorated but never saw action. What was his job? Did the job hurt his brain, cause he received psychiatric help from the army.
What he was not is frustrated, he played loud neo nazi rock for two days before he ran around his truck for 10 minutes, aimlessly say the neighbours, then sat in it and after some more time drove off to do his murder.
The term frustrated is so wrong, frustrated of what?, what was so frustrating that he had to murder, its utter bollox.
http://www.hangthebankers.com/sikh-temple-shooter-was-in-army-psychological-operations/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=sikh-temple-shooter-was-in-army-psychological-operations
Suhayl Ref the opening ceremony (and don’t forget we have another expensive ‘closing ceremony’ coming up) I have just found out that an ex mayor and a long standing tory boy councillor was cast as …yes you’ve guessed it… one of the industrialists.
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He once threatened to have a group of us turfed out of a planning meeting when we were objecting to the council’s attempts to flog off green belt farmland in lots. The land was acquired by the town’s corporation from the old LCC pre WWII. Their attempt to flog if off failed.
Further on Obama’s attitude to the Oak Creek shooting cf the shooting of Israelis in Bulgaria.
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http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/obama-more-sympathetic-israelis-killed-bulgaria-sikh-americans-murdered-wisconsin
Amongst all the ad hominem bickering and counter-accusations about who has a right to say what, I’m learning something useful from nearly all contributions to this debate. Vive la difference! Some key passages and expressions are worth extracting and archiving because they make a point in a supremely effective way. Immigration is a complex issue, to be sure. The implicit assumption that the debate can be simplified and polarized, with all the positives and negatives lining up either side, is absurdly naive – but it sure makes for an entertaining spectator sport. I also appreciate the biting irony in accusing people of demonizing because they said something reminiscent of what other demonizers have said. So please keep fighting, but try to stop taking so much personal offence. If you state your case well, other people will see it and make up their own minds.
ThatCrab:
“Also arent we created or evolved much beyond our primitive systems. It is silly to model ourselves on our primitive instincts, while adverts and seductions encourage us to. How hard do we have to try to transcend basic instincts? ~The Art of being. We can even happliy be motionless gurus or unceasing empassioned builders for years, when we determine to be, rather than warriors or couch potatoes or virtual crustacea. I must try harder…”
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I don’t think we are much evolved beyond our primitive systems, these are the autonomic systems beyond conscious knowledge or control, and evolution, selection favours thems, favours impulsivity, though implicit risk-taking and its consequences might balance that advantage out. Acute and accumulated stress increases subsceptibilty. The endocrinological systems when run-down, tired, stressed try to compensate e.g. low or falling blood sugar can cause adrenalin level to spike, making rash fight or flight behaviour far more likely.
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I maybe didn’t stress enough or at all that I understood this more primitive behaviour to be manipulable in individuals and in groups, and controlling governments, part soporific, part propagandizing and misleading media, sometimes outright fabrication, massaging and managing public opinion, making dropping or exaggerating facts to fit a narrative are all capable of jerking many to dance a desired tune against their better and higher-evolved faculties of logic and reason and compassion or empathy, which made clan or mixed communal living work.
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Having said that these evolutionary throwbacks and remnant systems are a great part of what makes us interesting and human, creative, brave, admirable, reckless, when these kick in jungle -animal rules apply but a dulled down alternative temperate emotionless humanity sounds insufferable, could be seen as regression, alien even.
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Curiousity might have killed the cat, but I bet that cat had a high old time of things.
The CoE Commissioners are divesting themselves of their £1.9n holding of NewsCorp shares ‘for ethical concerns’.
{http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19166960}
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Impossible to find out what else they have apart from generalities.
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One of the 33 commissioners is Jeremy Hunt/DCMS himself. Unbelievable.
http://www.churchofengland.org/about-us/structure/churchcommissioners/organisation-and-governance/the-church-commissioners.aspx
“but try to stop taking so much personal offence.”
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And I think therein lies the point in many ways. Some posters see politics and economics in a purely personal way and respond accordingly. Others try to take a more objective and holistic approach.
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There’s as much argument that these people who beat up others are feeling victim themselves. I’m sure they don’t have a fully thought out political analysis, for example.
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One might reasonably argue therefore that they share much in common with those who’ve taken offence here, certainly in terms of the form of their politics, whilst clearly not in terms of who are the goodies and who are the baddies.
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A more holistic politics might feel a need to accomodate both. This is why the no platform nonsense was such an error.
Good to hear that someone gets some value out of this thread, even if its just to aid his personal development, oh what unbridled joy.
Kite – A kite was used by the Chinese to send messages in battle from the field. The first transatlantic message was sent from a kite supported aerial. In the urban dictionary a ‘kite’ is a correspondence from a person hindered or constrained.
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The message here is to commit the second plane. I believe the plan was to abort if the first plane for whatever reason missed the North tower.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IedVRYUNWUU
I’m simply making observations and points and posing some very simple questions to Komodo. Here again are the very simple questions which I posed:
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1)Who are “the Real Locals”, Komodo? Or are those brands of ale? What is your definition of ‘a Real Local’?
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2) And what precisely do you mean by “our traditional legal base”? And since when has this “traditional legal base” not changed?
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3) What is your definition of “social engineering”? Are the media/politicial organs to which I referred – in this schema, the purveyors and instrumentalisers of propaganda against various minority groups – not engaging in constant “social engineering”? And is our financial system – fundamentalist ideological capitalism, deregulation, privatisation, etc. – not also a great, ideologically-driven machine of “social engineering”?
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4) And what, in your opinion, Komodo, did Enoch Powell intend by giving that speech [The ‘Rivers of Blood’ speech]?
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5) And what do you think he meant wrt the ‘rivers of blood’ reference vis a vis contemporary Britain?
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6) And what did his subsequent political activism suggest was his primary concern?
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7) And finally, Komodo, did/do you agree with Enoch Powell?
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I think it might clear the air if these very simple questions were addressed. Best to be frank and open, I think. Free expression and so on.
This is just about all you get about Mexico, that’s what they want us to talk about, not corruption, rigged votes and democracy.
be warned, this is hilarious and can seriously damage your diaphragm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9keQMXSpHs
Suhayl
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Would you please answer my question @ 3.44pm above:
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In what way did Danny Boyle’s narrative “challenge certain preconceived notions of ‘Britishness’”?
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Thanks.
Just popping in to see everyone’s in good spirits, and being civil to each other! Carry on 😉
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(Few posts retrieved from the spam filter)
Apostate wrote “Nearly forgot the benighted masses have also been indoctrinated to believe that any version of events that contradicts the official account is “conspiracy theory” . Thus the idea of integrating witness testimony into any meaningful construction of events comes merely as an afterthought!
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Reckon any of those witnesses will be summoned to testify in court?
Not if the judge has got anything to do with it. He may not even have to impanel a jury:http://sgtreport.com/2012/07/can-you-say-cover-up-judge-seals-batman-shooting-case/ ”
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A sealed court – how very convenient, how very…err…wrong and going against all notions of justice and transparency,not to mention Habeas corpus Still – trial by jury is obviously preferrable to the masses. Anyone who points out the basic ‘wrongness’ of this is,of course a conspiracy nut with a silly tin foil hat. Probably a UFO nut too obviously
All this talk from the politicians on the legacy from the Olympics for the next generation is just a hollow sham.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19162126#
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‘The Education Secretary, Michael Gove, has approved the sale of more than 20 school sports fields in the past two years, official figures show.’
Nevermind,
That is Damien Day the intrepid reporter of Globe-link News a fictional TV news outfit, that was portrayed in a series called:”drop the dead donkey”. It was comedy at its best, and most aware. IN fact Damien Day school of reporting is the only school for newscasters these days.
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He used the same teddy bear in his news report from disasters, until he was caught, he lied and mistranslated, and basically did the voodoo the “media” does these days, a prophetic epiphany, if you can find it watch it.
Horrific weather conditions in American states like Oklahoma and its neighbours are described here and what it means for all of us.
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Tomgram: Michael Klare, Post-Apocalyptic Fantasy Becomes Everyday Reality
August 7, 2012
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Wherever you look, the heat, the drought, and the fires stagger the imagination. Now, it’s Oklahoma at the heart of the American firestorm, with “18 straight days of 100-plus degree temperatures and persistent drought” and so many fires in neighboring states that extra help is unavailable. It’s the summer of heat across the U.S., where the first six months of the year have been the hottest on record (and the bugs are turning out in droves in response). Heat records are continually being broken. More than 52% of the country is now experiencing some level of drought, and drought conditions are actually intensifying in the Midwest; 66% of the Illinois corn crop is in “poor” or “very poor” shape, with similarly devastating percentages across the rest of the Midwest.
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/..
http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/175579
It is still perplexing to me what exactly Techncolour and Suhayl Saadis points are. It’s been established over and over that most sensible people agree that racism, bigotry and hate speech are bad things whoever the are directed against. But what they seem to be instigating, not deliberately im sure, is that a form of thought crime or word crime should be established, which is obviously extremely sinister . That how it comes accross to me anyway.
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I don’t quite see either why they should be so obsessed with the idea of every country should be thoroughly multicultural in order for the inhabitants to be somehow more ‘enlightened’, or why the Britain of 200 years ago should somehow not allowed to be described or demonstrated as being an island of mainly white/pink skinned people. Would the Congo,Kenya,Iceland or Tibet not be allowed the same generilsation? It is also bizarre that they seem to think that discussing immigration and immigration numbers means we are not also able to appreciate all the good things that immigration brings
Nevermind, I don’t quite get your point. To take the examples you give of ghettos:
a) I would bet you don’t live in Hackney. It is by no means a ghetto. It is a largely harmonious and warm mix of people of all skin colours, religions and origins.
b) Jewish people may congregate in Golders Green, but having non-Jewish friends who live there, I can attest to the fact that it is not a ghetto, in the sense of excluding others, either. The fact that people who have historically come together in search of safety because of murderous violence and historical discrimination against them is surely tragic. You are not blaming them for this, are you? Surely you are blaming the violence and discrimination?
c) Tower Hamlets is full of poor people. Are you objecting to the ghetto-isation of poverty? Are you objecting to the lack of social provision, which involves many children going to school hungry? Which is more important: their origin, or their circumstances, which are getting worse as this government attacks the poor?
As for taking offence; I am tickled by the way that people are being urged not to take offence, no matter how rude anybody is to them. It’s like suddenly being in a community of Buddhists. Of course, people are attempting to give offence to drive others away, and because it is so dull, they might succeed. Myself, I think that the fissiparous nature of, say, calling other people names (‘thick as pigshit’) reveals more than it knows.
By the way, the ‘imported workers’ (the Polish in Ireland; the Portuguese in Iceland, say) are largely temporary; employed, under the Schengen agreement, to do the jobs the inhabitants of the country do not want to do. They can not be classed as immigrants – “A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another”. To elide the two is disingenuous, or wrong.
Suhayl, by repeating a series of loaded questions with an expression of Socratic disinterest, it looks like you’re trying to lay a dialectical minefield. I guess each question is wired to an explosive accusation. It’s a passive-aggressive double-bind, of course: if the target refuses to enter your minefield (a likely scenario), you can then deduce they have no answers and thus no reasonable rationale for their views. Is this a stock anti-racism or anti-bullying tactic? If so, is it mentioned in a handbook anywhere? It seems similar to a rhetorical method I’m aware of that is designed to elicit frustration, and I like to compare the justifications. Ta.
Herbie, here is a good article on the subject. Boyle presented black people in roles intrinsic to ordinary life in this country and presented mixed couples. It was something like the White Supremacist’s worst nightmare but I sense that it also disconcerted quite of lot of people who would not consider themselves to be white Supremacist of racist. And therein is the mirror into which many never dare gaze. Also, by association when we see the NHS portrayed, we think of the black, yellow and brown who have helped build and sustain it and who, a times of great pain and distress, may have treated and helped to heal us or our families.
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To quote from the article:
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So, even though, as the writer rightly points out, the ceremony, “a neoliberal Trojan horse” (but that’s another issue), omitted certain crucial narratives, still it disconcerted a section of people who, internally, deep down, if they were honest with themselves, cannot tolerate their Britain – past, present and future – as anything but white.
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thenation.com/blog/169146/olympics-opening-ceremony-danny-boyles-minstrel-show#
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I think this has been reinforced by the constant, highly visible stream of medals – gold medals – won by black, Muslim, mixed heritage (clearly immensely proud to be) British/Scottish/English, etc. athletes. I think all of this has called-out the ugliest emotions in some people. I think they are having great difficulty restraining themselves. I would rather they did not restrain themselves, actually, because it would be more honest. And it might be the first step in confronting their own racist attitudes.
I really dont like to read Suhayl or Nuid so upset, i hope it eases up and that Komodo is not disturbed either.
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Hi Cryptonym:
“these evolutionary throwbacks and remnant systems are a great part of what makes us interesting and human, creative, brave, admirable, reckless, when these kick in jungle -animal rules apply but a dulled down alternative temperate emotionless humanity sounds insufferable, could be seen as regression, alien even.”
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I see people as exceptional from other known animals, with freeness of dextery, powers of expression, depth of insight and an oddly advanced tempo and musicality which no other animals match (not even whalesong unless they are singing in an unknown temporal geometry). We have some really really special extra resource of mind which we cant fully appreciate and which is often ‘elephanted from the room’ while examining what we seem to be.
I see the models of social interactions which are in terms of Alpha and Beta units and standardised heirarchies, as quite roughly created to supply academic needs for summaries and frameworks. But the academic paper-shifting animal models, become the base reality, and then they are regarded as base reality of humans too.
We have so much potential of mind to choose with and be with, that i have a dislike for the suggestion we are anchored to a standard configuration. Advertisments are most guilty of casting us in primitive standard forms, i think it is not the pre-existence of the form which makes us most susceptable at the end of the day, its the casting. I think if i can put my mind and time into it, i could cast myself and become much better than what modern theory/culture would turn me into.
Chris Jones: I am equally puzzled about why you want to ‘debate’ immigration. I’m still here because, as I said above:
I will not leave casual readers of this blog under the impression that this country has been overwhelmed by horrendous numbers of foreigners and that it behoves all reasonable inhabitants to debate what should be done about these ‘immigrants’. This ‘transcending line of thought’ is
a) hysterical
b) factually incorrect
c) a significant part of a far right wing agenda (cf the Golden Dawn) which results in the most inhumane and inhuman of policies.
Is there something about that you don’t agree with?
As for “obsessed with the idea of every country should be thoroughly multicultural in order for the inhabitants to be somehow more ‘enlightened’” – strange way to categorise pointing out that cultures benefit and learn from each other, and that many parts of this country are thoroughly multicultural already. Those are just facts.
As for ‘thought crime’ – bah. No-one’s being judged guilty of a crime, and I see very little evidence of much thought; apart from the standard ‘there are too many of ‘them’ coming over here and’ – the ‘and’ being left unspecified.
You say you want to discuss immigration, and immigration numbers. This has been, in some places, a discussion. It has also resulted in some vitriolic rhetoric. And the fact that no-one, not even the more moderate, has been able to describe how, exactly, immigration numbers have been ‘horrendous’, say, makes me think that in fact it is just a series of derogatory accusations seeking tacit approval. Which, in some cases, it has found.
I object to the word ‘aborigine’ to describe current white inhabitants of these isles, because it is factually incorrect, by the way.
Nextus, how very interesting.
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These are simple questions. Komodo raised all of these points themselves – s/he was the first on this thread to mention Enoch Powell and most of the the rest of the questions draw directly on quotations from his recent posts on this thread. Komodo created the “minefield”, Nextus. I merely am shining a very bright light on the field and asking them to identify precisely, to define the nature of, the mines.
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I’m interested in promoting free expression. I think it’s good there is platform for such discourse. Surely, you are not attempting to inhibit free speech, or trying to close-down the discussion by suggesting that some questions are “un-askable”, that there are subjects which ought not to be discussed?
Racists forget that the Olympic’s opening ceremony was not meant to be a literal representation of pre-industrial and industrial Britain, which would be difficult for many fairly obvious reasons.
The ceremony was performed by volunteers, and it was great to see how diverse those spirited volunteers were.
Good for them.
technicolour when you say
“The fact that people who have historically come together in search of safety because of murderous violence and historical discrimination against them is surely tragic. You are not blaming them for this, are you? Surely you are blaming the violence and discrimination?”
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The same murderous violence as you call it, shown towards immigrants, I presume you mean first generation immigrants, the windrush generation, was also perpetrated on the ‘locals’, (we are still trying to find out what locals are), homosexuals and people with gender disphoria, who had to meet in dark and smelly toilets because they would have been attacked, anybody with a different sexual persuasion was rife for a bashing by thugs. It was and still is an islander problem
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Local Government during the 1950’s and 60’s did their best to house these workers in the same areas, preparing ghettos I call this. Golder’s Green and north London experienced ghettorisation long before that date. The GLC’s policies changed years after and not everyone agreed with the new multicultural policies.
I would never blame the victims for the violence they experienced, I can see why Brixton rioted.
Can you tell me why people in Wales burned second homes owned by English people?
Techncolour wrote – “I am equally puzzled about why you want to ‘debate’ immigration”
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I dont especially – but in general i quite like having objective and rationally discussions without childish labels being thrown around
That’s fair enough, Suhayl.
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Can you just tell me whether Boyle used a multi ethnic cast throughout or did he begin with a relatively mono ethnic cast, diversifying it as the country changed through immigration? Was that a noticeable feature of the production?
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I agree with what you say about the present and relatively recent past in terms of the contribution made by more recent immigrants to this country.
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I’d also important to understand that had we not had the Thatcherite imposed unemployment in the 1980s and since, ethnic divisions would be miniscule compared to what they are today.
“how very interesting … These are simple questions … I merely am shining a very bright light”
– More examples of the passive-aggressive faux innocence I was referring to. The abrupt change in your tone from your earlier impassioned posts is very evident. And by using the words “simply” and “merely” it’s clear what impression you’re trying to convey. But of course it isn’t that ‘simple’ at all. You’ve used the same tactic before in a similar context, despite your ‘simple’ denials.
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“Surely, you are not attempting to inhibit free speech, or trying to close-down the discussion by suggesting that some questions are “un-askable”, that there are subjects which ought not to be discussed?”
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– And yet another example! You’re trying the same tactic on me now. I was actually genuinely interested in whether you were following a taught method, but I suppose that may have to go answered. On the other hand, perhaps you’re deliberately trying to be stoic to avoid becoming upset about a very emotive issue for you. In any case, the tactic is likely to be provocative, as I’m sure you well know. Feel free to carry on as before. I’ll be interested to see what follows, if anything.
Nextus, it probably isn’t Suhayl’s fault. I have specifically requested that people ask straight questions rather than employing sarcasm and innuendo.
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Komodo and Nuid, I personally request that you reduce your sarcasm level a bit. This is not a moderation request. I just find things difficult to follow sometimes, it’s just doesn’t seem to fit the way I think. I’m not much good at crosswords, either, and I still use a dictionary. I hope that doesn’t imply that I’m as thick as pigshit.
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Technicolour, I think that a high immigration rate may lead to problems in the Labour project of multiculturalism, preventing it from doing what the Labour party wanted it to do. It’s quite usual as a physical phenomenon that things that mix well if you add one component slowly fail to mix at all if you add the component quickly, and you end up with “blobs”. The two links from Nevermind suggest that this could be happening. I did mention this before; I gave the example of making cheese sauce.