I was invited to be on the Murnaghan programme on Sky News this morning – which I always find a great deal more intelligent than the Andrew Marr alternative on the BBC. I declined because I did not want to get up and get a 7.30am train from Ramsgate on a Sunday morning. I had a meeting until 11.30pm last night planning a conference on human rights in Balochistan [I still tend to say Baluchistan], and I have a newly crowned tooth that seems not to want to settle down. But I am still worried by my own lack of energy, which is uncharacteristic. Is this old age?
I also have some serious work to do on my Burnes book, and next week I shall be staying in London to be in the British Library reading room for every second of its opening hours. So there may be a bit of a posting hiatus. I have in mind a short post on an important subject on which I suspect that 99% of my readership – including the regular dissident commenters – will strongly disagree with me.
This is a peculiarly introspective post, perhaps because my tooth is hurting, but I seem to have this curmudgeonly spirit which wishes to react to the huge popularity of this blog by posting something genuinely held but unpopular; a genuine view but one I don’t normally trumpet. The base thought seems to be “You wouldn’t like me if you really knew me”.
Similarly when I wrote Murder in Samarkand I was being hailed as a hero by quite a lot of people for my refusal to go along with the whole neo-con disaster of illegal wars, extraordinary rendition and severe attacks on civil liberties, sacrificing my fast track diplomatic career as a result. My reaction to putative hero worship was to publish in Murder in Samarkand not just the political facts, but an exposure of my own worst and most unpleasant behaviour in my private life.
I am in a very poor position to judge, but I believe the result rather by accident turned out artistically compelling, if you don’t want to read the book you can get a good idea of that by clicking on David Tennant in the top right of this blog and listening to him playing me in David Hare’s radio adaptation.
Anyway, that’s enough musing. You won’t like my next post, whenever it comes. Promise.
So I looked up Agenda 21 on Wikipedia, and found this:
Judging by Zoologist’s criticisms, you might have guessed that all the poorer nations of the world would be opposing Agenda 21, but no:
Zoologist, are we considering the same document?
Clark:
“No, the “viruses” don’t die out, and neither do biological viruses. The “immune system” catches up, ie. the vulnerability is patched, or the AV software gets a database update.”
No, viruses don’t die out. Bacterial “infections” do though. I saw what you did there 😉
The immune system doesn’t always catch up does it. Spanish flu killed 30 million I think.
“This is why an unvaccinated person in a mostly vaccinated society is protected.”
A vaccinated person is protected Ian totally unvaccinated population too, surely? Isn’t that the point?
We have a finite set of resources.
Where is the limit set at?
the village? the town? the city? the country? the planet? the solar system? the milky way? the universe?
Only limited imaginations and illiteracy are the limiters and the finite elements thereof.
There is a whole fucking huge universe out there, we have not enough human per planet ratio, but hey there is a finite resources, so let us all send the fighter jets screaming to offload their deadly ordnance, to stop the carbon generation! Will the fuckers whom sent these deadly instruments on their missions with their gargantuan carbon foot prints pay a penny extra penalties?
Hang on carbon foot print is only for the poor bastard who tries to pretend s/he is having fun and goes to the latter-day Butlins come Toremocheapbooze.
Hypocrisy without a trace of irony.
Clark – I was just explaining to Glenn why he gets the reaction he claims. he clearly isn’t a racist. It is only fair he understands why he gets called one.
You have to understand the history and the context to understand the “conspiracy”. (Not my word)
The struggle is between the self styled “elites” and the rest. Us Westerners are complicit by allowing ongoing imperialism. All countries have a small number of elites at the top. Their biggest job is to control the masses. They consider “population control” as part of their remit. Look at China. Global government looks like global fascism to me, but you need to read the history from Malthus onwards up to Mengele and friends.
Plato is the bastard that started it all. Read about his “man in a cave” .
Not my fight here .. FWIW
Agenda21
Agenda 21 is a comprehensive plan of action to be taken globally, nationally and locally by organizations of the United Nations System, Governments, and Major Groups in every area in which human impacts on the environment.
Agenda 21, the Rio Declaration on Environment and Development, and the Statement of principles for the Sustainable Management of Forests were adopted by more than 178 Governments at the United Nations Conference on Environment and Development (UNCED) held in Rio de Janerio, Brazil, 3 to 14 June 1992.
http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/
Zoologist, Germany is pulling out of nuclear power because the environmental parties are rather strong in German politics, and they oppose nuclear power. Fukushima just swung it, that’s all. If Siemens industrial controllers were really the problem, Germany would have nothing to worry about, would they? They could just get Siemens to fix the vulnerabilities.
Has your employer sent you on any of those commercial training schemes? And did they teach you that “all operating systems are equally vulnerable. Linux doesn’t get targeted because it isn’t popular enough to bother with”? It ain’t true; it’s M$ propaganda. Most web servers run on either GNU/Linux or one of the flavours of BSD, and a web server is a far more valuable “prize” than our home browsing machines. Free systems are used because they’re a damn sight harder to break into; just ask Gary McKinnon, who said “I saw they (US government / military) used Windows, so I knew it would be an easy hack”.
I didn’t get around to mentioning; of course it was reckless that Israel/US/UK released Stuxnet. But if Natanz had been running free operating systems, the malware would most likely have remained localised.
Siemens controllers are used for all sorts of things, from nuclear power down to bottling milk. It wasn’t the Bushehr power station that Stuxnet was directed at; it was the centrifuges at Natanz, which is absolutely nothing like the Fukushima nuclear power station. About all they have in common is the word “nuclear”.
Zoologist, would you mind telling me your favourite sources? Would you consider diversifying?
@Mark “This is the link to the podcast Sunflower – Enjoy.
http://www.spreaker.com/user/uk-collapse/ukc_radio_podcast_03_1
Thank-you for listening.”
Thank you Mark. Listened through the pod-cast, very nice to hear you voice and your important message. Seeing the infinite terror and suffering, especially to children, the “war or terror” is creating it’s obvious who the actual terrorists are.
Depopulation is happening the American way right now – Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Sudan, Yemen, Pakistan, Syria. Sanctions kill millions (mainly children) way before the bombs get started. The land masses have been sprayed liberally with depleted uranium. Now they have to rebuild. We provide a friendly (to us) dictator to help them. The third world has been underdeveloped. (verb).
The British Empire was the most brutal in history. Since 1945 the USA along with (Israel) have been hell bent on extending it. It’s all about to come crashing down with the dollar in the not too distant future.
My ancestors fought the British in the Opium wars.
My Scottish ancestors were ethnically cleansed from the Highlands to Australia and Canada.
My Irish ancestors were sold as slaves to the USA.
The world is a shit place, but it has always been so.
Hamza loses his appeal. Will probably join savory types like Michael Swango @ADX Supermax prison in Forence Colo.
http://www.newsmeat.com/news/meat.php?articleId=126178669&channelId=2951&buyerId=newsmeatcom&buid=3281
@Clark: “Zoologist, would you mind telling me your favourite sources? Would you consider diversifying?”
Not sure what you mean with the first bit. If I can help, feel free to email me if it’s something you don’t want to put here.
Diversifying on the coding front? Always interested in learning new stuff. I’m a touch on the aspergers side of things apparently, I find coding strangely therapeutic. English is more difficult.
I went on loads of formal courses in the 1990s, MS,Oracle etc etc. I was lucky enough to find myself in the Y2K panic which was very lucrative. I quit the company and started my own in 2000. I sold it in 2010.
Since 2000 I have been pretty much self taught. I subcontracted myself to a web dev company for a year to get the basics of web design. Since then I learn languages for amusement, when I get time.
Have no doubt, I agree that Microsoft and Apple et al are part of the problem just like IBM were in the 40s. I would break them up if I ruled the world. They are above government and dangerous.
Zoologist at 24 Sep, 9:31 pm
I’m not playing a game with you, Zoologist. I want you to start thinking clearly, I want you on board. There are real fights to fight, and as many activists as possible are needed.
No, we can currently kill most bacterial infections with antibiotics, but that strain of bacteria doesn’t get wiped out of the environment.
Yes, and eventually human immune systems caught up. What is my evidence? Er, humanity didn’t get wiped out. Spanish ‘flu was just new, and fast, like the Cornficker worm.
Plato’s “man in a cave” was a thought experiment about awareness. It wasn’t a thought exercise in torture, and neither was Schrödinger’s Cat about cruelty to animals.
Come on, Zoologist. You need to think and ponder as much as you read.
Zoologist, not source code, sources for these odd things you believe, like Stuxnet being responsible for the tsunami I mean the Fukushima meltdowns.
Nigel Lawson on Global Warming Truth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKQTD2TVcR4
This is bloody hilarious too 😀
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYObyDHGLSA
This second link cuts short, here it is in full:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L86aDJNzSM&t=9m44s
@Phil. Monbiot, like so many journalists, took an early path to the righteous indignation camp on global warming. You are probably right in that he does not have much vested interest in whether man-made warming is true or not, except that having so enthusiastically swallowed everything the warm lobby claimed, he, along with many others, feel it is a matter of personal pride and vanity not to backtrack on a commitment which would make him and others appear somewhat foolish.
Similarly, thousands of scientists are now also committed to the original band wagon climbing they pledged, and since then many of them have jobs which rely utterly on unbending compliance with that lobby.
By contrast, very few of the prominent sceptics have anything like similar vested interests, and many have no vested interest at all – except for the truth.
None of this makes me convinced either way, but until I see evidence that is almost beyond question, I shall remain sceptical. That does not make me a “denier” which is an entirely different position.
I’m reminded here of the run up to the financial meltdown, at which point more than three quarters of the world’s most “qualified” economists told us there was nothing to worry about. Those same economists then wincingly made excuse after excuse why they didn’t spot what a barrow boy in the east end could have spotted, and even now are part of the vast body of economists who are promoting yet another potential disaster: Quantitative Easing, a.k.a electronically printing money which goes not to consumers or tax payers, but to the very banks who gambled our cash away.
“Monbiot, like so many journalists, took an early path to the righteous indignation camp on global warming.”
That is one way to skip over the years where he roughed it ,in direct action road protests ,and had a spike driven through his foot by security guards for his convictions.
“but until I see evidence that is almost beyond question, I shall remain sceptical. That does not make me a “denier” which is an entirely different position.”
So until the weather has got so bad for so long as you decide a whole majority community of professional scientists specialising in the situation might understand somethings you dont – you are merely “skeptical” not a “denier”
Bollocks Leonard.
I’m surprised that people here are still using the term ‘global warming’. From what I’ve empirically seen, it’s ‘climate chaos’. Some parts are getting colder, some warmer. Monsoons are happening in unheard of months. September in parts of the world is like April. Floods are devastating everywhere, from parts of the UK to Tonga. The ice caps are melting. Sit with a group of people from around the world around a campfire: everyone will have their story of ‘never before seen’ weather conditions in their own country.
A friend of mine compares this to an elevator. The alterations, he thinks, might, probably would, have happened naturally. Things change. There are sea shells in the cliffs of Dover. But currently, humans are accelerating them. I think it’s clear that you can’t pump the fossil accumulation of millenia into the atmosphere without effect, on this scale. Who really thinks we can?
That is not to say I don’t object to the scare stories. I do. I particularly object to scaring children with them. But does everyone – deniers and alarmists – not think that things are changing? It does not have to be bad. There can always be a balance. Bad year for apples – more blackberries.
But the wider picture is that we are polluting our whole environment: with toxic emissions from coal powered stations and incinerators and kilns and traffic; with pesticides, with plastic, with GM – all these things to make us feel warmer, safer, less hungry, when we waste a third of our food, and squander our energy, as it stands. And use our cars to travel to work where we are often abused and bullied and see no sense in it. Even if we love our work.
Is it not time, statistics aside, for a rethink?
Incidentally, nuclear power, as it is done, is really not an answer. Or, if you think so, read this extraordinary report (partly in response to Monbiot) and tell me it is, anyway:
http://theosimon.wordpress.com/2012/04/01/whos-doing-wrong-at-hinkley-theo-debates-george/
I wrote:
Actually, Stuxnet was harmless to all software except the Siemens industrial controller programming and control suite. It was exceptionally well written malware, and targeted very precisely upon the centrifuge cascade software. It was written this way so it wouldn’t betray its presence by causing crashes or odd behaviour. Yes, it proliferated, but that doesn’t really matter. It doesn’t corrupt files nor leak your credit card number to Russian criminals.
I found and downloaded a copy from a forum, but I haven’t got around to trying it out on a Windoze installation.
Clark: “I’m not playing a game with you, Zoologist. I want you to start thinking clearly, I want you on board”
“sources for these odd things you believe, like Stuxnet being responsible for the tsunami I mean the Fukushima meltdowns.”
I don’t “believe” anything. The “odd things” you quote must be projection on your part – I certainly didn’t say that Stuxnet was responsible for any tsunami. Was that a deliberate straw man?
If you don’t understand what someone says it doesn’t automatically mean “they” are raving lunatics. Calling themm names just makes you look small minded and ignorant.
I understand many of Billy’s points. You don’t. I can tell that he is very well read. I don’t necessarily agree with what he writes, but I know where he is coming from.
Do you deny that the German government is likely to have provisions in place with regard to “cyber security”? They rely on Windoze too FFS! They have backed out of nuclear just recently – are you so confident they are always entirely honest in their press releases?
Whatever. It’s no biggie.
I too want you to start thinking “clearly”. I conclude different to you, thats all.
My definition of “clearly” is not “the same as Clark”.
We’re not even that different though – that CO2 alone is not the immediate catastrophe it is hyped to be and nuclear power at the moment is not the panacea. You disagree.
I respect that. Respect is pretty lacking for us “deniers” round here.
My sources? Sarcasm?? Not sure..
I read a lot. I don’t watch TV. The trick is to read stuff you disagree with, as much as that you agree with. Otherwise, how can you make valid a judgement? Sometimes I even change my mind.
I had read Agenda 21 many years ago. I’m surprised you haven’t heard of it – or at least it’s connertations. Again, I stress, I have read it. I don’t “believe” it.
Do some research on the history of the Eugenics movement. It wasn’t originally German – mainly English and American and notably, Zionist. Read Orwell and Wells, they were contemporary “elites”. Tragedy and Hope, Carroll Quigley (very boring). He was an insider. Controversy of Zion, Douglas Reed (misuderstood and maligned author, sacked Times journalist), I wish I had read this first. Not 100% correct, but great context.
Plato’s “man in a cave” is a thought experiment, if you are a serf..
If you are an “elite” it is a hand book. “Republic” – how to control one.
You need to see things from “their” perspective. “They” have owed most of “us” since 1066 and legally so since 1694 or so. You were never the intended audience – serfs (aka “subjects” couldn’t read until the last century, by and large. Try learning some Greek and Latin – you will understand why they stopped teaching it to the proles.
“Er, humanity didn’t get wiped out”
Not much consolation if you are one of the 30 million though.
Helps a bit if you are working towards an optimum of a billion or so, over the long term.
*Bad year for apples – more blackberries.
Obviously, if you live where the permafrost is melting for the first time, or anywhere where you are threatened with your entire island being engulfed, or in a newly created dustbowl, this sounds ridiculous.
Technicolour, shut up and get back to either working, shopping, or sitting in a traffic jam. We don’t need any of that liberal, misanthropic opposition to unregulated capitalism here. Don’t you realise you’re arguing to kill all the poor people? Discarded plastic bottles give slugs somewhere to drown 🙂
“Try learning some Greek and Latin – you will understand why they stopped teaching it to the proles” – apparently this is what caused the Russian revolution – all those schoolteachers….
Clark : “Actually, Stuxnet was harmless to all software except the Siemens industrial controller programming and control suite. It was exceptionally well written malware, and targeted very precisely upon the centrifuge cascade software. It was written this way so it wouldn’t betray its presence by causing crashes or odd behaviour. Yes, it proliferated, but that doesn’t really matter. It doesn’t corrupt files nor leak your credit card number to Russian criminals.”
But Stuxnet is Cyber terrorism – and WE (UKUSIsrael) are the terrorists. It may have been exceptionally well written malware but ALL software has bugs, even the best designed and tested. And that is just one application – on our side. What about our “enemies”. Presumably retaliation is the likely result?
I would rather not have Sizewell just up the road, if it’s all the same to you..
You know the disciples of Theodore will say your argument is flawed if:
You are capable of critical thinking.
You distrust mainstream media.
You like nature.
You think it’s a good idea to spend the Friday after Thanksgiving with your family rather than camping outside Best Buy to get a cheap plasma television made in China.
You think it’s a little strange that WTC building 7 came down at free fall speed on 9/11 yet it was never hit by a plane.
You think that drones in America might not be for Al Qaeda.
You would like to be able to get on a plane without having to engage in a mandatory radiation bath and digital strip search.
You have read a book in the past year.
You think you have the right to protest.
You think the War on Terror is a scam.
You think the War on Drugs is a scam.
You think the anger directed at America from the Middle East could possibly be related to our foreign policy rather than hating how amazingly free we are.
You think the Republicans and Democrats are exactly the same on the important issues affecting our country.
You think believing in The Constitution does not constitute a terrorist act.
You have heard of the Bill of Rights and can even name what some of them are.
You question whether the government loves you.
You think the right to bear arms is not for hunting, rather so citizens can fight back should the government become a bunch of tyrannical thugs.
You don’t own a television, and if you do, all you watch is RT, especially the Keiser Report and Capital Account.
You don’t think the NDAA is the name of Kesha’s latest single.
You think rich, powerful and connected people should be subject to the rule of law and go to jail if they commit crimes. Even if they are bankers and work at JP Morgan or Goldman Sachs.
You think corporations aren’t people.
You think Warren Buffet is a phony and a crony capitalist.
You don’t care that Warren Buffet likes cherry coke, hamburgers and ice cream. He’s still a bad guy.
You know that gold was made illegal by FDR in 1933 and confiscated from the American people. You know that gold bullion remained illegal for Americans to own until 1975.
You think politicians that push for war should be sent to fight on the front lines. If they are unable, their children should go.
You want your food to be labeled GMO so that you can make your own decisions on what you are consuming.
You grow your own food.
You buy raw milk.
You think food and energy should be included in inflation calculations.
You are aware that the Department of Homeland Security has purchased 1.2 billion rounds of ammo in the past year.
You question whether said ammo purchases are in anticipation of a Normandy beach style landing by Al Qaeda.
You think allowing a small group of unelected people (The Federal Reserve) to print unlimited amounts of money and distribute it as they please might not be a good idea.
Think about this ..
Government
Etymology
Latin gubernatio (“management, government”),
Ancient Greek κυβερνισμός (kubernismos), κυβέρνησις (kubernēsis, “steering, pilotage,
guiding”), from κυβερνάω (kubernaō, “I steer, drive, guide, pilot”)
English words suffixed with -ment
Etymology
From Late Latin -mente.
From Latin ment-, stem of mēns (“mind”).
Government == Manage + Mind == Mind Control
They can’t control us by force. They manufacture consent by massaging our perceptions.
We all want to go to war with the evil Iranians because they are evil. We are told what to think by the BBC, on behalf of the Government.
rather than argue about CAGW, why not READ the climategate 1 and 2 material for yourself and make up your own mind. i believed every scary MSM report until i did just that. a recent update on the groupthink aspect of the small team behind the adjusted raw data might be timely, and the essential sceptic blogs are in the blogroll (rightside column):
19 September: Dr. Tim Ball: Classic Groupthink Behavior Apparently Exposed in Leaked CRU Emails
http://drtimball.com/2012/classic-groupthink-behavior-apparently-exposed-in-leaked-cru-emails-2/
It is lamentable, to see the crooked crooks building upon the ignorance of the masses, and using the illiteracy, hubris, and fear of the masses to further impoverish these masses, and make heir lives more miserable.
The land that used to feed the people now feeds the cars, have we ran out of oil? Of course not, in fact we have so much oil that Iran’s production is under embargo and US et al are not buying it, this is a buyers market and these can pick and choose whom they wish to buy from. Are we short of food? You bet, the hunger riots, and food price hikes are telling signs.
What is the carbon foot print of Afghan war? What about Iraq war? Libyan war? Somalian War? How about Syrian war?
I am told how many people will die of second hand smoke, in the next twenty years. I am told what is the carbon foot print of me going to shops in my poxy car.
But mystery surrounds the carbon foot print of the bombs and ordnance that are getting used or have been used in killing fests. Strange that wars and destruction have no carbon foot print, and even stranger is the fact that none of the science practitioners has ever tried to publish the carbon foot prints of any of the killing instruments.
Further, what about the depleted uranium contamination? Moreover, how many tonnes of this deadly, dirty stuff has been fired, and the resulting dust from such ordnance in the environment and its environmental impact? Which of the carpetbaggers riding on the back of the convenient grants would wish to upset the apple-cart?
However the man made overpopulation of the insects, certain plant species, and jellyfish are all telling of the man made disasters that some scientist as yet has not thought of!
@Sunflower – Did you write that? It is genius.
Mind if I steal it?
@Zoologist “We all want to go to war with the evil Iranians because they are evil. We are told what to think by the BBC, on behalf of the Government.”
I think your argument is flawed… lol. Good night. Lets pray the crazy insane warmongers don’t start a new WW tomorrow.
No I didn’t from ZeroHedge that quoted http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2012/09/22/you-know-you-are-a-conspiracy-theorist-if/
I just put my twist on it to suit this forum…