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8,072 thoughts on “Not Forgetting the al-Hillis continued”

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  • Reply ↓
    michael norton

    Is it legal in France for a (secret) organization to fund a lawyer
    or does the lawyer have the responsiblity to assure themselves they are fully cognisant
    of all the parties in the funding chain?

  • Reply ↓
    Mr Juicy

    @ Max 4 Jul, 2015 – 12:19 pm

    I fully agree, and have speculated along these lines, perhaps too assiduously and exhaustively for some people’s liking, in previous posts. The bunch you mention are interconnected in various ways – emotionally, financially, geographically and chronologically. Of course EM insists he has found nothing, mere suspicions are not enough, and in his position has to be ultra-careful about what he says.

    Blanvillain – what a wonderful name for a lawyer!

  • Reply ↓
    Mr Juicy

    @ Michael Norton

    Q: If Sylvain Mollier used to be a metallurgist working for Cezus-Areva,
    what made him give it up?

    A: Metal fatigue.

  • Reply ↓
    Peter

    @ Mr Juicy, 4 Jul, 2015 – 12:56 pm

    Thanks. I am glad that you found my musings interesting. There most definitely are privacy issues around Y-STR testing, because such testing has the unintended side-effect of identifying illegitimate sons, which might not go down well in close-knit communities. (I only happen to know about Y-STR because a close friend of mine, a criminal defence lawyer, once defended a man accused of battering an old lady to death. Much of the prosecution case rested upon his Y-STR haplotype being found upon the victim. We thought about wheeling in Professor de Knijff as an expert witness for the defence, but, with the help of some local genealogical researchers and an incredible stroke of luck, we were able to do even better: as it turned out, a workman who had hung up curtains in the victim’s flat on the day of the murders was an illegitimate second cousin of the accused, meaning, of course, that he shared the same Y-STR haplotype. That discovery completely blew the prosecution case out of the water, and it came as a complete surprise to both the accused and the workman as well.) Still, it should be possible to conduct such tests in a manner that respects the privacy of all concerned.

    My biggest concern about this DNA issue is the risk of a type-II-error, a false negative. If the gendarmerie were wrongly to assume that one of the two DNA profiles that they have recovered almost certainly was that of the killer, they might exclude the true perpetrator upon that basis. More so than a type-I-error, which could be rectified with recourse to other evidence, that would really throw a spanner in the works. Moreover, it is easy to see how they might arrive at such a conclusion: if one of the two DNA profiles came out really strong, indicating freshness of the trace material, and the other one a faint shadow, they would almost certainly assume that the former was the killer’s.

  • Reply ↓
    M.

    Michael, as far as I can tell there was no printed obituary for Patrice M., without this where would you start to look for condolences ?

    His friends acknowledged his passing, with sadness.

    http://www.libramemoria.com/avis/le-dauphine/savoie/2012/09/18/avis-sylvain-mollier

    Veronique Gonzalez has since died.

    The DNA discussion, it is stated Patrice M.’s DNA was taken, there was no match found at the scene of the crime. Of course it doesn’t preclude him, or Eric D. but they can’t have had similarities to the two DNA found – without all the technical stuff discussed by Peter and Mr Juicy, which has been an interesting read.

    For the two DNA samples to be so important it has to be a significant find, but if they have done the haplotypes just by the suspicion on Eric D. they can’t be J1 or J2.

    Do you think the DNA of the Mollier/Schutz family were taken, afterall there was a racing bike at the scene belonging to one of the dead ?

  • Reply ↓
    M.

    Michael, what sort of qualifications are needed to be a ‘metallurgist’, Mollier did not go to University according to his brother, Christophe.

    It is a UK link:

    https://targetjobs.co.uk/careers-advice/job-descriptions/276123-metallurgist-job-description

    Qualifications and training required

    A degree in metallurgy, materials science/technology or a similar engineering subject is normally necessary for entry into the profession. Engineers wishing to gain chartered status (CEng) must have a masters degree accredited by a relevant engineering institution (either a four-year MEng or a BEng/BSc together with an MSc).

    He was working the ‘trois huit’, that is shift work.

    He could have grown through the ranks of his 20+ years working at the combined site of Ugitech the foundry (the biggest employer), Cezus and Timet.

    His ‘sister-in-law’ says he was a welder.

  • Reply ↓
    michael norton

    This has been questioned several times but I am not sure we are all yet convinced

    Has Eric Maillaud
    actually,
    unequivocally claimed that Patrice Mengaldo committed suicide.
    Has he claimed with what weapon / weapons?

  • Reply ↓
    michael norton

    Just because Patrice was interviewed by the authorities over the Slaughter of the Horses
    and even if he had written a six or seven page letter, it still does not mean he killed himself.
    If he had been writing letters but not yet had time to slip them in the poste box,
    that does not make him a bad person /murderer/suicide.

    Let us go with the theme that hid did not kill himself.

    Has Eric Mailluad gone through every other possibility with a fine tooth-comb

    because if Patrice was killed, then it would bring us to the view that the Slaughter of the Horses is a FRENCH afaire.

    Not just an al-Hilli slaughtering.

  • Reply ↓
    M.

    Michael, I posted before the ‘parquet d’Albertville’ has established it was a suicide.

    He left four letters, to his mother, his sister, his nephew and one was found beside his body.

  • Reply ↓
    Peter

    @ M., 4 Jul, 2015 – 2:02 pm

    For the two DNA samples to be so important it has to be a significant find, but if they have done the haplotypes just by the suspicion on Eric D. they can’t be J1 or J2.
    That is most probably true, and a heavy blow to my preferred scenario of an intrafamily conflict.

    Do you think the DNA of the Mollier/Schutz family were taken, afterall there was a racing bike at the scene belonging to one of the dead ?
    They definitely should have been, as it is almost inconceivable for only SM’s own DNA to be found upon the bike, and because there was a possibility that the killer could have handled the bike.

  • Reply ↓
    michael norton

    So,
    Sylvain Mollier gets his common-law wife Claire Schutz,(the only earner)
    to leave her business in Grignon to come home to Ugine, so he can go out on a cycle ride?
    Claire is the niece of Pierre Morange, of Pharmacie Schutz-Morange fame.
    Sylvain is killed with 5-7 bullets at Le Martinet.
    The first person on the murder scene is William Brett Martin eX-RAF
    who has his holiday home in Lathuile. He moves the corpse of Sylvain Mollier?

    Mr. Brun, hurtles down a combe whilst sitting alone in the back seat of his vehicle?
    The E-FIT-SKETCH is released,
    one week later five locals shoot Nicole Communal-Tornier dead in her home at
    Camping Ideal, Lathuile. The daughters of Mr.C.T. are married to the sons of Mr.Deronzier.
    Eric Devouassoux who lives in Lathuile is taken in for questioning, he used to be a policeman on the other side of the lake.
    Eric’s mate Mr. Jean-Luc Falcy was also taken into custody and he lives in Lathuile
    a spit away from the families Deronzier/ Gotta.
    Patrice Menegaldo who is family friendly with the Schutz and Mollier clans, used to live in the same block as Sylvain and goes out with the sister of Sylvain is questioned
    ( once-twice)by the authorities, then some months later is found dead suspected of shooting himself, did anybody hear anything suspicious?
    Patrice is in no-way involved with the death of anybody at Le Martinet and neither is Eric Devouassoux nor Jean-Luc Falcy.

    End of story.
    It MUST be ZAID al-Hilli wot done it
    Q.E.D.

  • Reply ↓
    michael norton

    Unless William Brett Martin was wearing surgical gloves, his dabs and his DNA must have been all over the crime scene.

  • Reply ↓
    Q

    If someone wanted to peddle influence, surely they would seek out someone with connections to the people whose influence they wanted. There must be middle men for these sorts of transactions.

  • Reply ↓
    Mr Juicy

    @M @ Peter

    Given the delay in examining the crime scene and other initial shortcomings of the investigation, I have some doubts about the quality and reliability of these DNA samples. It has not been explicitly stated that the investigators are sure that these samples belong to the killer. Nor even has it been explicitly stated that these two samples definitely belong to two different persons – they could be traces of DNA of the same person.

    Assuming, however, that the samples are fully usable, I am sure that the investigators would have quickly conducted an analysis to establish the haplotype and to determine whether or not there was a Middle Eastern connection. In view of the subsequently direction of the investigation, it seems clear that the DNA samples found on the scene were not thought to be of a Middle Eastern type.

    But that does not definitively rule out a Middle Eastern connection. It simply means that, apart from the AHs, no Middle Eastern person left any DNA on the scene. Middle Eastern Suit Man may also have been Middle Eastern Latex Glove Man. I personally am not a fan of theories revolving around intra-family disputes or the sighting of MESM – I’m just trying to be objective and let the facts (or lack of them) speak for themselves.

    I would expect the French police to want to keep information about the DNA found on the scene highly confidential, hoping to use this one day as a means of trapping or tricking the killer (if still alive) or other connected persons into making a confession.

  • Reply ↓
    Mr Juicy

    @ Pink

    Allowing local police and emergency workers to contaminate the crime scene achieves nothing. Even if one of these people was involved, letting them return to the scene would merely enable them to cover their tracks and confuse the investigators.

    The Telegraph article you provide quotes Maillaud as saying that there were no significant DNA clues on the scene. And of course DNA evidence is not mentioned in Parry’s book. One could either take this at face value (ie the DNA traces were in poor condition and inconclusive) or take the view that he is deliberately playing down the significance of the DNA evidence for the confidentiality reasons I mentioned in the earlier post. I hope it’s the latter. But if the former, that would be difficult to square with the Figaro article quoted earlier by Peter.

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