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It would be helpful if we had a 48 hour detailed itinerary of the movements and personal interactions of LYON man, leading up to the slaughter.
I certainly have not eliminated LYON man from any involvement.
I think he is RIGHT IN THE FRAME.
In all probability LYON man is the slaughterer.
Why LYON man
he is local
he was at the scene of the slaughter but did not come forward.
he was seen by William Brett Martin very slowly descending the combe as W.B.M. was ascending to the scene of the slaughter.
For more than two years he was suspect number one,
because he was seen at the scene by more than one person, just before and just after the slaughter, nobody else, has been reported as having been seen there, just before and just after.
It has been reported ( refuted by M) that he went up and down the combe multiple times, his reported weak reason was for paragliding.
Apparently you cannot paraglide from there nor can you observe paragliding.
XXXXXXX
Questions for Eric
Three years on. Pretty much the last chance for a media appeal to jog peoples’ memory. Let’s hope he makes good, proactive, use of any press conference.
If he does face the press, what should the police and the journos be trying to achieve.
Note, not what questions would you like him to answer but rather what would help the investigation the most. There are many questions one could ask about the investigation itself however at this point it would not help.
So ottomh it could be the release of a robot portrait of the campsite man with a media appeal focused primarily on France and Switzerland.
Or maybe a re-launch of the appeal for the BMW 4×4 focused on RHD countries and expat hotspots such as CERN.
Any thoughts?
I would say release the photo’s a description of how they were dressed and their movements ,how can anyone know if they saw anything when they have no idea who they are supposed to have seen.
There are many small details I would like to know. But there is 1 big detail I want to be confirmed (because it is so hard to swallow)
Is the Lyon MC the same as the MC seen by WBM ?
If Eric says ‘Yes’ then I would ask Eric how on earth it was possible for LMC to :
A. not come forward
B. not see anything
C. not remember anything
D. (detail) how could LMC be behind ONF2
Afaik, the outcome (innocent) of Lyon MC really was something EM & co didn’t expect. I remember reading that investigators were frustrated that tracing LMC didn’t solve anything. So … how could that be?
In short. What is the story of LMC and the consequences for the investigation?
@ GIP
the most important question, in my mind:
was there an arranged meet between somebody in the al-Hilli group
and Sylvain Mollier?
We know that the al-Hilli group were nervous, they moved camp from one site to another but stayed in Saint Jorioz, close to Lathuile/Doussard.
Now if they were just being tourists, with small children, the obvious choice of route would be to turn right off the D 1508, and stop to enjoy the fun of the hang glider center
Delta Evasion, in Doussard. From there they would either have gone along
Route de La Plaine, through the villages of Marceau Dessus,
Chevaline and up the combe to the slaughter scene
or alternatively, from the Delta Evasion, through the center of the town of Doussard, through the village of Chevaline and up the combe to the slaughter scene.
If, however, the al-Hilli group had decided to continue along the D 1508, turning right at the crossroads crossing the cylcle track from UGINE, passing Bateaux Passion, and trundling along Route de Couardet, Route de Cotes, Route de Arnand, Route de Moulin,
to reach the Flat Iron Building, where they clowned about, waiting for Sylvain Mollier.
Although they were following the route that Sylvain would take, they had not seen him,
so Saad deposited his group, to continue clowning around at the FIB, while Saad alone, drove up to Le Martinet.
As the scene was clear, he returned to collect his family to go back up the combe, for the meet, which I am thinking was going to be between Iqbal & Sylvain.
I am also thinking, it would be very useful to know:
which paragliding center was the “LYON” man using that day?
All
Well Pink gets my vote as far as a general appeal goes.
I used to have the idea* that la france profounde was the preserve of the green-ink brigade, so it is a bit of a surprise that, if this has a local component, those involved have not been dobbed in yet.
Three years is surely long enough for some offence to be taken, however small, that should suffice to get someone writing letters.
I did wonder whether a reward would work but I doubt it.
(*) I must have gotten this stereotype from the media somehow! Maybe mixed in with postwar denunciations etc. I had no idea about the wall of silence.
If Saad,
alone was the target, after he had deposited his family at the Flat Iron Building in
Les Vignes/Arnand and trundled up to Le Martinet,
WHY DIDN’T THE SHOOTIST KILL SAAD THEN?
The most likely answer would be that SAAD was not the intended victim.
When you think of the enormity of what happened that day a mothers desperate attempt to save her child ,a father doing his best to save everyone SM possibly the hero of the day trying to do something ,BM finding a scene that nightmares are made of and there
seems to be only this little band of peeps here who actually cares enough to keep people from forgetting all about it ,those two ladies were like a fish in a fishbowl no chance to save themselves poor Zeena trapped in a car alone for 8hrs with everyone not only dead but badly mutilated she was 4 yo, what did the french do bring in a road sweeper or as one poster said a long time ago “under carpet swept ” and I am thinking much the same .
@ MAX
One reading of the available information ( which M claims I am mis-interpreting)
has “LYON” motorcycle man doing multiple trips up and down the combe that day
( ostensibly for the purpose of following his sport of hangliding)
Now, you “could” have a sport of hangliding, which would allow you to go to different fields and watch.
I have “LYON” motorcycle man running up and down the combe, ( pretending to be interested in paragliding) while he is on the look out for Sylvain Mollier cycling along the track, to turn off for his ascent up to Le Martinet.
MN, post your French link again and let everyone decide what it says, no problem if I didn’t translate correctly, try to understand the principal of paragliding, you seriously think he was running up, or motorcycling up the Combed d’Ire to a take off
point, even if he could it would be several kms past Le Martinet.
Then, Google Doussard + Parapente and look at the flying zones, hasn’t there been an update from EM to say he was taking Deltaplane lessons ? Hang gliding ?
Mr Lyon is a bloody idiot to have left his phone on ! Especially as he was so prepared with the many clips and untraceable gun to commit murder.
I suppose any mention of the anniversary will depend on the days news, EM doesn’t have to say anything, after all, Diana will be priority around 31st August.
I’d go with one piste, the mystery man at the caravan park and did he look like the driver of the RHD 4×4 ?
Max
If Eric says ‘Yes’ to your question it could be as simple as he he received a text or phone call shortly after being shooed down the combe.
I have found that sometimes when I have no signal, when the phone gets a good signal again and logs back on to a base station, if there is a text waiting it is usually delivered very shortly afterwards, usually less than one minute.
So, he pulls over to read/reply/call then sets back off again down the combe and as he does so he sees a VTT and rider (WBM).
The approx location and timing fits the bill and if LMC made such a claim it would in theory be testable and maybe the phone company records would also still be available.
I would like the mystery photographer to be found. The one who took the full family portrait.
They may be entirely innocent and merely being helpful however I think it possible that they gave some sightseeing advice to SAH and that this inadvertantly lead to his death.
SAH could alternately have spoken to someone else whilst he was looking at the FIB.
I could understand someone not coming forward if they didn’t fancy a lengthy interrogation or whatnot.
I think there is a connection between the photo (and gratuitous advice), the FIB and Martinet stops and the BMW 4×4 driving up the combe.
I realise that the 4×4 observation time is a bit undefined so it is difficult to tie down a timeline to support (or exclude) a causal connection, nevertheless I think there is one.
I wonder if SAH and co went into the shoppi a good chance to pick up supplies while they were out,I suppose they were a bit earlier than Sylvie if her receipt was for 4ish or she might have bumped into them.
FRENCH Alps Family Murder Suspect Exonerated
A man pictured in a police artist’s sketch after the killings of a British family in the Alps has been eliminated from enquiries.
A motorcyclist arrested over the murder of three members of a British family and a FRENCH cyclist in the FRENCH Alps has been eliminated from police enquiries.
The former policeman was seen near the scene of the killing at Chevaline where British engineer Saad al-Hilli, his wife and her mother were gunned down in 2012.
http://news.sky.com/story/1439885/french-alps-family-murder-suspect-exonerated
The couple’s daughter Zainab, who was seven at the time, recovered after being shot and pistol-whipped.
Her sister Zeena, four, was found unhurt, hiding beneath her mother’s body inside the bullet-riddled car. A passing cyclist was also killed in the attack.
After the killings police launched a massive hunt for the man and issued an artist’s impression in November 2013 of how he appeared with his motorcycle helmet.
He was identified and arrested in the village of Lathuile two months ago but his identity was not revealed.
French police now say he has been exonerated.
French media said the man had been sacked from his job as a community policeman last June.
He was described by Le Monde newspaper as a loner and an arms collector.
The man was driving on the Combe d’Ire road on the day of the murders when he was stopped by two forest rangers who asked him to leave.
He agreed, driving back down the path past the car park where the Al-Hilli family were gunned down.
After his arrest he told detectives that he came to Chevaline to practice his passion for paragliding.
He said he did not make the connection between his presence near the scene and the artists sketch that was circulated.
Today’s reports are the latest twist in a mysterious case which has proved elusive to investigators on both sides of the Channel.
Police say enquiries in the case are ongoing.
Is it possible that the mystery man from “LYON”
is the very same Eric Devouassoux?
I am not saying I believe that Eric Devouassoux is also the mystery entreprenuer from LYON
buts let’s check it out.
Eric is a dead ringer for the E-FIT-SKETCH, his inlaws live in Chevaline.
Eric has / had a home in Lathuile
but it has been reported him / his family own many properties, many of which they rent out.
It was reported that the “LYON” motorcyclist was tracked down because on the day of the Slaughter of the Horses, he used his mobile phone in Lathuile.
Eric is a motorcyclist.
It was previously reported that Eric used his phone, quite close to Le Martinet ( a couple of Kilometres)
Chevaline: the trail of discarded biker, the mystery deepens further
Published on 03/06/2015 at 10:20 , Updated 03/06/2015 at 13:09
http://www.ladepeche.fr/article/2015/03/06/2061576-chevaline-motard-identifie-aurait-lien-tuerie.html
For many, he was the head of the quadruple murder of Chevaline (Haute-Savoie). The mysterious biker sought by dozens of investigators for more than two years, was actually a fan of paragliding entrepreneur, glimpse by chance near the crime scene.
“This is a business leader Rhône-Alpes, honorably known and above suspicion, who came paragliding and going home,” he told AFP the prosecutor in Annecy Eric Maillaud.
Crossed by agents of the National Forestry Office (ONF), the man with the goatee and a black helmet, had long been a main suspect in this case extraordinary.
It was indeed on the road to the Combe d’Ire near Chevaline, between 3:40 p.m. 3:15 p.m. ET on September 5, 2012. Either almost the time were killed by several bullets in the head, Saad al-Hilli, Columbia Iraqi-born of 50 years, his wife and his stepmother. A cyclist in the region, likely collateral victim, was also shot dead.
The eldest daughter of the couple al-Hilli, 7 years old, was seriously injured while his sister 4 years, hidden under the legs of his mother, was miraculously unscathed.
Identikit
More than a year after the killing in November 2013, the police had released the sketch of biker, focusing on his helmet, very rare, sold less than 8,000 copies in this model. This biker “is potentially the author but it is above all a witness”, had then said one of the investigators.
The fact that the biker wanted for months will be introduced to them never left However soar strong suspicions about his possible involvement in the killing. A BMW X5 4X4 car in right-hand drive, gray or dark in color, was also sought and was the subject of an appeal for witnesses a few months earlier.
One hypothesis of the investigators was then that al-Hilli family was followed by BMW that would have alerted the biker. It would have benefited from an isolated place to pass the act.
Three months later, in February 2014, a former municipal police officer with a strong resemblance to the sketch was arrested from four days in custody before being acquitted for killing.
‘He saw nothing’
The gendarmes were finally reassembled in true biker identifying 4,000 mobile numbers that had triggered one of mobile phone masts located near the crime scene. CCTV images have intersected these investigations.
When questioned by the investigating judges in February, the man explained that he went on the banks of Lake Annecy for paragliding. In fine weather, several hundred paragliders jump from the Forclaz pass, not far from the crime scene.
Having parked his motorcycle in Doussard, near Chevaline, the man was about to return home by road of Combe d’Ire when it was turned back by the NFB agents, this road is closed to vehicles.
“He says he has seen nothing (related crime, ed.) But it must be heard again soon. We will ask him to revive his memories,” said Mr Maillaud.
The prosecutor declined to give more details to identify the witness. The man, who has no criminal record, would never presented to the police because “he did not pay attention to all the hype around the rider,” said the magistrate.
“It is interesting that two and a half years later, we continue to find new elements,” he says. But the huge file of Chevaline, the thousands of pages, do seems more intractable.
So, “LYON” motorcycle man was first questioned by the authorities in February!!!
Quite a co-incidence if this man from LYON is at the same time Eric Devouassoux, as Eric was first questioned in February.
“When questioned by the investigating judges in February, the man explained that he went on the banks of Lake Annecy for paragliding. In fine weather, several hundred paragliders jump from the Forclaz pass, not far from the crime scene.”
Apart from releasing a photofit of the mysterious “suit man” who argued with SAH the night before the murders, in my opinion the single most useful thing that Eric Clouseau could to is to have a stretch of the river Ire (both upstream and downstream of the murder scene) searched with metal detectors. I believe that there is a fair chance that the gun and spare magazines still lie there. Although they will have been badly corroded by now, it should still be possible to determine the full serial number of the gun.
Having given some more thought to the matter, I have come to the conclusion that, regardless of whether the killer expected the police to search for him with tracker dogs later on, climbing down into the bed of the river Ire is the only way in which he could have vanished so quickly without trace. It would also have been a natural urge for him to get the blood off his hands, sleeves and shoes as quickly as possible. Moreover, after having fired 21 rounds in quick succession, the killer will have reeked so strongly of gunpowder residue that even a human nose would have noticed the smell. Even the dopiest tracker dog could have followed that scent trail blindfolded. Given that the dogs didn’t, that leaves precisely two alternatives: either the killer climbed into a waiting car (which the dogs could have tracked at least for a few hundred meters, thereby pinpointing the direction into which it was driven) or he immediately had a wash in the Ire and subsequently waded in the river.
Peter, I completely agree,
another option, is he got on his motorcycle/push bike and descended the combe.
Those Lugers keep turning up in the strangest places …
http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/tirs-dans-un-thalys-les-premieres-confidences-d-ayoub-el-khazzani-22-08-2015-5028005.php?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Il a dit avoir trouvé ce fusil Kalachnikov, son pistolet Luger et un téléphone portable dans une valise, abandonnée dans un parc, près de la gare de Bruxelles en Belgique où il avait pris l’habitude de dormir.
Peter
Yep! metal detectors. And an airborne magnetometer for the wider area. Not the easiest place though, with the water and all the metalworking debris.
Ironically I suspect (but have no evidence to back-up my suspicion) that they are unable to effectively analyse the data they already have.
The premature opening up of the crime scene may have been seen as reasonable because the scene had been laser-scanned with the latest high-tech equipment brought from Paris.
Seduced perhaps by the white heat of technology, standard proceedure abandoned as obsolete.
My guess would be that those lovely data files produced by the scanning process now languish somewhere unused.
There may in fact be something useful hidden in those files such as a footprint, or a witness mark on the car. Who knows? Certainly not the gendarmerie.
Questions for the SSMCT head.
Three years on. Pretty much the last chance for a media appeal to jog peoples’ memory. Let’s hope he makes good, proactive, use of any press conference.
If he does face the press, what should the police and the journos be trying to achieve.
Note, not what questions would you like him to answer but rather what would help the investigation the most. There are many questions one could ask about the investigation itself however at this point it would not help.
Déjà vu? It is a joint enquête after all!
This is one of my random ideas again do you remember Max made a magenta picture of the crime scene that picked out anything red,I made a comment at the time along the lines there appeared to be red behind the crime scene tape towards the river if it’s still around could you cast an eye over it again to see if it gives any clues .
21 Aug 4.18 pm
So, if SAAD went up the combe to Le Martinet ( a little before the slaughter)
and he was not slaughtered, it was not SAAD who was the intended victim.
So, perhaps the main victim was Sylvain Mollier.
Has Eric Maillaud or one of his work chums, actually laid out, before the public,
the movements of SYLVAIN MOLLIER,
in the 48 hours, leading up to the
Slaughter of the Horses?
@ Good In Parts, 23 Aug, 2015 – 6:02 pm
Given that the gendarmerie in Annecy did not have the relevant 3D laser-scanning hardware, it seems highly unlikely that they own the requisite analysis software (or possess expertise in using the software), such as:
http://www.aras360.com/products/software/aras360-csi.html
Thus, I suspect that you are right: they are in possession of a highly accurate 3D “point cloud” of the crime scene, but lack the technical wherewithal to work with those data.
That thought does not inspire confidence, especially so because those 3D laser scanners are quite affordable (approximately € 100,000 to purchase outright or € 100 a day to rent) and in widespread use for general surveying and civil engineering. For instance, a friend of mine uses exactly the same model as used by the German police for constructing 3D technical drawings of the piping inside factories.
http://psg.leica-geosystems.us
In other words, this is hardly rocket science.
Peter
Indeed. However I also suspect that my sensor fusion fantasy of merging the point cloud with HD spherical camera shots yielding a virtual crimescene which would then be overlayed with ballistic trajectories remains just that, a fantasy.
I think the best we can hope for is that each half of the joint enquête have been using their respective major crime management packages properly. The document management aspect alone must be becoming a bottleneck. Never mind the passport management aspect.
Cheap shots aside, the obvious pistes seem to have run dry so if the data are good the analysts could go prospecting in outlier country.
Staking my claim at the data mine, the phone records have yielded well so far, there could me more. A burner phone would be a start.